ELENATION

You are right about being passionate and being a good thing, and I am! when I said I don't care, I meant I don't care if Robin or any other person in particular still can't see that the question was indeed answered, because it really doesn't matter because it's not going to affect the way I feel, I din't mean that I dont' care about the subject itself in general or the debate... it's hard for me to express what I feel while I'm posting as opposed to in person, sometimes it's missunderstood or just doesn't come out right....

And I will add that since the opinion of a Republican was mentioned, I work with mostly democrats and I have heard them say plenty of times that they resent that we have to pay taxes to support the "lazy a$$ people" that are on welfare.... the guy that is sitting next to me expressed it just like that and he is 'Big time democrat" at least that's what he claims.... and they were talking among each other and they agreed... I heard it myself.... so if it's a republican or a democrat who feels that way is irrelavant.... in my opinion it's what's right or wrong, what's fair or not, what's in people's hearts ultimately.... I believe that we should help those in need, help them to get on their feet , but we should not allow them to live off of our government. I find unfair that many times Republicans are portrayed by the Democrats as cold hearted people that don't want to help others... what a big lie that is....

I see your point, and I am also proud, happy and humbled to be able to help others in need, I feel very strong about that in my heart, but when it's abused, it's not fair to any of us, it's not right, does that make the program bad? NO, it's some people who make it bad and therefore the programs should should be monitered in a way that would help to the ones that really need it and not to the ones taking advantage.... that's how I feel....

Oh but you don't find that doctor courageous? how is that possible? they are trying to get a yes or no answer and implying that we are not answering the question, or that we are answering the question wrong, but it's a lie, it was answered, long version, short version, I was as straight as you were, but it's just not good enough. Let me join you and say it again NO, I DON'T THINK HE IS COURAGEOUS AT ALL, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should I give an explanation of why I think he is not courageous, which I did before already? but then again if I do, that wouldn't be a straight answer either.... darn you can't win, but the good thing is that I really don't care...

That is a concern of mine too.... teaching their children their culture is fine but demanding that we live by their standards and our government agreeing is concerning, this country is made out of immigrants and that's a great thing, I'm one myself, but once you come here, we should adapt to the culture here and shouldn't demand or pretend that US government of citizens here will live by our standards or religions, what you do in your home with your family is all fine... but it seems like sometimes we are crossing the line....:cry

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2: Very well said, I agree with you 100% Ignoring these things just because we don't fully understand their culture is simply irresponsible and this world would end in a blink if we ignore all these atrocities... they wil escalate until people kill each other all over and the world ends... ignoring is absurd...

Thank you and that's exactly the truth.... we are all doing the best we can.... trying and trying! I'm not priviledged, didn't grow up with a priviledged family, never have been.... and I don't think that Christmas is for the priviledge... or any celebration under other religions for that matter.... these are celebrations for what they mean to each person and celebrations of the good that we have in our lives, even if it's not a lot... Hey, if you are alive, and able to come to the forum and post here, those are already reason to be grateful and celebrate, it means you are still living, you have a computer at home or at work, you may have a job... see... we could be doing worst.... so let's concentrate on doing the best we can like you said! Merry Christmas! Elena

LOL! good point:D

Nope....no quiet celebration....this is a free country and as open as this forum where we could all celebrate whatever people want, the same way people in this forum can talk all they want about Christmas, it goes both ways.... I'm sorry about your hard life, mine wasn't all that great either.... I don't have enough time to tell you all about me, it would take days, maybe weeks... but I still try to stay positive, specially for my kids... and note that I say "try" I don't always accomplish it.... but I find my responsability to at least try and to shake the bitterness, even when is valid....because believe me, many times it's very valid.... but I find that in my case it's not worth to live that way.... I just try to concentrate on the positive, I hope you can do the same and that it would help, the same way it has helped me, at least somewhat... I personally do better this way... but I do understand that everyone is different..:cry

EXACTLY!, but they just want us to agree.... not inform ourselves more before we agree or disagree, just take their word and agree... otherwise, "we are just not answering tue questions" ...unreal...:faint:

Is vulgar offensive language allow here??? ok...I'll refrain myself....:guess:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

Oh man!!!!!!!! that was too funny! I totally agree! it's the reason why I wake up everyday, to meet people like that.....what a delight!:faint:

Well, I don't think she avoided the question, just because she didn't write exactly the words the way you want to hear doesn't mean she avoided the questions and also this is the internet which sometimes we are answering something and it could sound different at the other end, you should know that, I personally understood her poing and why agreeing on "small points" if you just don't agree? do we need a lesson as to how to debate or answer to posts accordingly here? and I didn't see ANY attacks from LR, NONE.:paranoid

ANd I will add, please don't compara AIDS with abortion...AIDS is a fatal illness....lame comparison.

Firstable you! WTH? "You" has a name and is ELENA, show a little respect.... well, if you can.... I'm not sure about that now.... Again, if that would've been any other doctor, then I would consider if I find it courageus or not, it depends on what he is doing, again and again, what it seem courageous to you may seem disgusting to others, you need to get that...I believe I answered your question and pretty darn straight but I never expected you to see it that way, I'm not surprised... Some people find Hugo Chavez in Venezuela courageous because he is comfronting the US and supposedly helping the poor in his country, I say he is not courageous at all, I guarantee you he is a liar nasty dictator, courageous? NOT, but some idiots may think he is.... look at the few dumb celebrities that go there to support him! people that are absolutley disconnected from reality , that are rich, that know nothing about communism... they think he is courageous, I say that they as well as Chavez and dumb uninformed idiots!, I know, this is a whole different topic... but I felt like bringing it anyways...:biggrin1:

ok, ok, but I do need an excuse to eat cookies and drink egg nog.....:kiss

hhhhmmmmm, not really... can you non-believers, "anti-pagans", "bigger percentage" of the world keep your anti-celebration spirit and opinions about Christmas private? I guess not, so why should we?

Bravo! that was very well said. every single word... Thanks Elena:D

In the eyes of a pro-abortioners, in the eyes of an atheist this doctor could be all courageous you want, in my eyes NO!!!!!!!!! you wanted a straight answer right? of course, I know you won't be satisfied with this answer either.... well, who cares really, since in my eyes as in the eyes of pro-lifers abortion means taking a baby's life, how the heck would that be courageous? not to me! in my opinion this doctor is merely doing what he wants according to the way he feels and I feel totally different because I see abortion differently.., so what seems courageous to you may seem disgusting to me... He can keep doing what he wants and he can keep being a hero to you, I will keep doing what I feel...

You know, we could be talking about abortion, doctors, it doesn't matter, some people jump in just to attack Christianity.... even if the comments sometimes make no sense.... so lame...so hateful.... but we are in R&R right! so I guess that makes it ok....

OK, did I miss something? what point are you trying to make? I believe what LR said was regarding what we were talking about....why silly?:help:

Of course the money is a big factor for some doctors, that's obvious... I agree it may not be the ONLY factor...and that not ALL doctors are that way, but plenty of them are... and nothing wrong with doctors or anybody for that matter making money and making a living, and if part of it for a doctor is doing abortions and he's fine with it, then go ahead, he/she is the one who has to live with him/herself....

Thank you much, you know, It's beyond my comprehension how anybody can just not provide for their elderly parents and dump them somewhere and walk away guilt free.... I don't know if I could do that to even a friend... but to my parents? but I know it happens and it's so sad....so very sad... and yes, it was not like that years ago.... it's not human... it's horrible..:cry

Totally agree and I feel the same way as the previous poster, I don't rely on food stamps, welfare, unemployment, if I don't have enough, I live without it but I don't believe in relying on the government, never have, I understand that sometimes we may have to and that's fine, I bet that if I ever need it , it will be too late and I will get nothing, because of all the abuse... I know that many do need the help, but there is also plenty of abuse... You know, when I brought my mother from Cuba, after waiting many, many years in order to bring her legally... I also signed an affidavit of support for 15 years, where I became totally responsible for her, she never got welfare, medicaid, nothing, I assumed responsabilities, she passed away some years later and I'm still paying hospital bills little by little... it would've been easier to just lean on government assistance, but when enough people do that, oyr system will be bankrupt...:rolleyes

Well, I'm the one suggesting it then..., because I do believe that many doctors do it for the money, I won't say just all of them, but many of them do, millions of dollars are paid on abusive claims that doctors are aware of and willingly participating, which by the way those payments increase the cost of insurance for everyone, but that's a whole different topic, but of course there are plenty of unscrupulous doctors that do whatever they have to do for money, including abortions... and I understood what you meant L8bloomR... I know you didn't imply that at all... I agree with everything you said.