ELENATION

But if abortion remains legal, then there is nothing that can be done for the baby's life and rights (again, for those who believe they have rights...)and we are back to square one... if it becomes illegal I see how it could work...

I hear ya, science or religion could be wrong... sure, and as I said it before, I REALLY really wish there was another way to protect the baby's life (I understand that it's not a baby for others..) but for those who feel this way... the ideal would be a solution that would protect the mother's rights and the baby's rights for those who think that the baby should have rights.. I definitely agree that there is more to this, a lot more...

Yes, but science also doen't have to support it to be true... science also could be wrong.. I understand that the main thing is that we all don't agree when a life begins and that's probably the biggest problem... I tell you that I personally feel this way not just because my religion, which is a factor sure, but it's not all about religion, but also because I have two kids and I heard their heart beats so quick after I got pregnant.. I understand that the big problem is that some think that it's a clump of cells while others think that conception is the beginning of life... and I understand that those that don't agree with me on this are not going to agree with me on the whole pro/against abortion issue, I know that and it's ok.. I couldn't find the example that you gave about other religions and the shot at live at 30 years.. to make sense to me personally.....

Understood, and I agree to disagree on those certain things... it's ok..

I understand your point, and I'm glad you weren't talking about people here trying to force their views on others... And I respect your point and understand the reasons why you defend your point. Now, when you quote what Sweethot said, I agree that the every day woman that for whatever reason, other than rape and incest want to have an abortion is not right, we should be responsible for our actions, the thing is that you don't see an embryo as a life, I do, some people do, even if it's the minority, so we are defending this life... and it's unfortunate that the mother has to have a baby that she doesn't want, but that mother should have also been careful and not concieve a baby if she didn't want to, that mother should think that there are consequences to every action that we make, that if you concieve a life you should respect it and grant rights to that life as well, I know you have good intentions protecting the woman's right, but please also understand that even if it seems like pro-lifers want to force women to have an unwanted baby, we are simply protecting the baby's rights, and the solution may not be the best, this is not simple at all and easy to resolve, I understand that, but I know that the intention of saving a baby's life and a baby's right to live is good, even if we can't agree on the way of accomplishing it... I understand that you and I may never agree, I'm not saying that I'm right because I'm right... I'm saying I have a valid reason to feel this way, I just want to protect a life, and I know that it begins with the fact that we disagree when a life begins, but it is what it is for both of us... I say you shouldn't be concerned because you believe that american society will never allow it, I for one have to keep thinking of ways of saving those babies's lives... maybe one day there will be a better option for everyone..

Oh I hear ya! I was too!:faint:

hehehe...no but I couldn't resist bringing him up..:biggrin1: also, I wanted to make sure you were paying attention....and everybody else....:peace:

Thank you Wassa:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Now stop saying that! :biggrin1:if you are going to label Romney as flip-flopper and compare him to "clintoons and McCain" you better mention the biggest flip flopper ever Mr. John Kerry....

"This is a dispute where well-meaning, good, honest, moral, intelligent people disagree. One group does not have the right to force its views on others. And after decades of freedom of choice in this country, there is no going back again on this issue. This is one genie that is out of the bottle. Regardless of what the Supreme Court says, or what anyone else says, the majority of Americans who are pro choice will never go back. That much is clea"r Well, again, like you said, and I agree, this is a dispute among honest intelligent people disagree, I don't think anybody is trying to force it's views on others, you are the one who keep saying that... And if you believe this is a done deal and there is no going back regardless of what the Supreme Court says, etc, then why are you even waisting your time debating this....? you won, right? that's fine with me, what goes on in the real world about this issue will go on, this to me is only a debate in LBT and expression of different opinions. Have a good day. __________________

LOL! well, I guess you're going to have to share your brain with me for a while! and I could definitely put Thompson in 4th and Huckabee on 5th...

You know, I find interesting the debate and I admire how some people can debate without being hurtful and vicious, and I know there are plenty great debaters here, but some poeple just can't, they must bash, hurt and requote their own quotes when nobody answered to them....oh well, whatever makes them happy....:clap2:

I'm a Christian and I try to follow Christ's way, and note I say "try" because I know I'm not perfect and make plenty of mistakes, but I also think that the way you live your life , therefore how you treat othres, if you help others, if you behave in a good and decent and humane way overall throughout your life is extremely important...

I wouldn't worry, like you said, nobody is perfect, besides, people change, they get smarter;), life experiences change people too... I think it's ok...

He is in my top 3 also.... 1.-McCain 2.-Romney 3.-Giulliani..... Even thought I have a feeling that Giulliani will lead.... what do you think? I agree with you, Romney is great!

"Many pro-choice people are fully aware that a heartbeat can be detected at an early point. They still, in their own soul and in their own conscience, do not believe this is a "baby" The same way that pro choice people may believe that pro-lifers are wrong for believing that life begins at conception, we believe some women are wrong for not understanding that a baby is conceived at "conception" and that what they believe in their conscience and soul about the moment a baby is concieved is wrong, both sides believe that the other side is wrong, neither side is trying to force its beliefs on others, they are expressing their opinions here in LBT

the post saying... "You assume that you are right that a fetus is a "baby," and that therefore everyone else should live by that rule. But the whole point is, not everyone agrees with that. You can't succeed in this argument by simply saying "I'm right because, well, I just know I am." That is not a good enough basis for forcing your morality on people who disagree with you." I'm sorry to hear this comment because I completely understand what you said and I know you were not arguing because you knew you were right and that was it.... you were making very good points and obviously you were not trying to force your morality on other people ... I do not understand why would anybody get all that from what you said.... I like you, wish there were other ways of preventing abortion other than have the government involved... but at the same time, for those who agree that life is at conception, it's a crime to perform abortion, like you said, maybe it's a no win situation... They can ask any woman who has suffered the physical and emotional pain of a miscarriage and I'll bet you won't find anyone who will say she lost her first-trimester fetus. She'll tell you she lost her baby. Pro-life or pro-choice, doesn't matter. Ultimately discussing this issue is extremely complex and I definitely feel for the mother who must carry an unwanted pregnancy, but I also feel for the baby, who maybe a fetus for some but not for everyone, but who determines who's right? can it even be determined fairly?

That is exactly what I was trying to say in my previous post, but you said it so much better! Thank you.

Thank you much LR, but isn't it true? We worry about the mother's rights, which sure is a valid concern, but aren't we supposed to protect the baby's life and the baby's rights as well? we wish... I do too...:think

Not so familiar with the Roe vs Wade, I'm a pro-lifer from my heart more than anything else, even though I know there are many other issues involved, so I need to read more about this to support or not support, but from what you said, without any further researching about it, I think I feel neutral, at least until I find out more information, I guess that's the only way I could fee until I know more, but I understand your point about keeping the police power out of our personal lives, I don't like it anymore than you do, I do wish there was a way to protect the baby's right as much as the baby's mother's right... I just wish...

Just to clarify that I'm prolife but I don't feel that I have the "right" to "force" women to do anything at all....yes, I'm not pro-abortion, I wish that people would take the necessary precautions to avoid unwanted pregnancies, men and women both... and I wish that if they failed to do so, or if the contraceptive method failed, I wish they would face the consequences by giving that child an opportunity at life, a child/baby for me and for some of us, an embryo which is not life yet for you and for others, unfortunately we can't agree on that.. and yes, my feelings are these because I want protect the baby's life, however, I will not force anybody.... I understand that you want to protect the mother's right, ultimately we are both trying to protect someone's right... Everyone has to live with the consequences of their actions so I don't force anybody...and I'm not here to force or judge.. I'm trying to explain myself here, but I'm sorry if I'm not doing it so eloquently....

Holy crapola! Full moon! Double full moon!:faint:

WTH? come to my house and cook and bake darn it!!!!!!!!:whoo:

Thank you Transformer!:clap2::clap2:

Well, I take both any day! I don't discriminate baby! that's sad!!!!!!!!!:omg: