Born in Missouri

I never had to take a test, a pop quiz or ANYTHING with my psychologist. What the holy heck? We talked about random nothingness, then she wrote out a four-paragraph recommendation in old-fashioned cursive on her letterhead. That was it.

What are some of your 344 questions? I hope you get a gold star and a happy face sticker on your test.

I've made a new friend on this forum. He currently has a BMI of 63. Apparently, there isn't even a term to classify his size. I found somewhere that Super Morbidly Obese is for a BMI of 50 or so. Anyway, this new friend has a great sense of humor so I know he can appreciate his dilemma of being medically nameless. But I digress...

After meeting with his nutritionist and surgeon recently (since he was still trying to decide sleeve vs bypass) his size pretty much decided for him. I found out why below:

"A BMI of 60 or above is categorized as super morbid obesity. A laparoscopic Roux-en-Y gastric bypass in these patients is technically very difficult due to the size of the abdominal wall, the size of the intra-abdominal fat and the size of the liver. Due to these technical aspects of the procedure, the risk of leak and other complications are increased. I think that a laparoscopic sleeve gastrectomy is a much better procedure in higher risk super morbidly obese patients. It is a technically easier operation than a Roux-en-Y gastric bypass and has a much lower complication rate for this patient population. The sleeve gastrectomy can also be the first stage in a two-stage procedure. Once the patient has lost a significant amount of weight, and if he/she is still morbidly obese, it is safer to then convert the laparoscopic sleeve gastrectomy into a gastric bypass or a duodenal switch. The sleeve gastrectomy started as a procedure for high-risk patients but is now used as a primary procedure for lower BMI patients as well."

It's been my experience that it's generally male doctors who tend to behave this way. Do you live in a small community with few primaries? My life turned around 180 degrees when I found myself a good, compassionate female primary. I'm not suggesting that all male primaries are jerks, but they tend to have more acorns up their butt than necessary.

It's just a routine, insurance-required obstacle to weed out the not-so-serious and those who, for whatever reason, would not be able to emotionally handle the challenges ahead.

I generally mock the visit saying that they just want to make sure that you aren't nuts. I say this because, to me, the visit is contrived and "forced" upon people. Seriously?!? Do heart/lung transplant patients have to go through this shaming requirement?! What other surgical procedures require psychological intervention?

There is an extremely small likelihood of being declined at this stage. The psychologist is actually on your side and wants to recommend you. S/he knows that weight-loss surgery is a positive step for most people and that it will have major life-changing advantages.

Unless you come in with doubt written all over your face, you will get your sign-off and be sent on your merry way. Being forced to read the psychologist's thumbed-through, out-of-date waiting room magazines is the only real burden ahead of you.

My hero! I'm speechless, in awe, and completely inspired by you.

Do you still have no loose skin? (If so, not fair, but I'm happy for you.)

On November 14, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Kimmie K said:

Congrats on your surgery! One thing I’ve had to learn about weight loss (without surgery at this point) is that it is definitely not a linear process. Stalls are always a bummer, but realizing why is the key part. The countless processes your body has to go through to realize a change has been made and what to do with it is pretty complex. Just because you restrict calories and change your internal anatomy doesn’t always guarantee immediate loss. You’re body is in a new state of repair and metabolic processes are complex. Let your body figure out what its new job is. I can guarantee you it’ll get back on track each time as long as you do your own part. You got this!

Outstanding response. You got this, too, Kimmie K!

6 minutes ago, Matt Z said:

"Stalls" suck, just understand that we really want to worry about fat loss, I know it's called "Weight Loss Surgery" but really it should be called "Fat Loss Surgery" since we don't want to just lose *any* weight, we want that weight to be from fat and not muscle or bone density. Keep up on the Water, current medical research shows that working towards 128 oz of Water a day is optimal for both proper hydration AND fat processing. When you stall, if you are not tracking body fat %'s, focus on things like, how your rings and clothing are fitting, you could be losing fat and not losing "weight", there were so many days where my poundage wouldn't move or would climb, but my body fat % would decrease. So you can be losing fat and not losing weight. Just something to be aware of.

As always, outstanding and succinct words of wisdom, Matt.

What an inspiring post. In just a few sentences you managed to convey humor, hope, and sweet fatherly love. You have an amazing attitude that will serve you well in the months ahead. It's important to maintain a good sense of humor and to know when not to take life too seriously.

My crystal ball tells me that you have a bright future ahead of you. And a bright future for you pretty much guarantees an even brighter future for your darling little son. Just think of all the other things (besides sharing good eating habits) that you'll be able to do together. Let's all hope that your son will be able to keep up with you!

You know those stunt chairs that break easily in the movies? Those will be to only chairs you'll be able to break in the future because the others will be too sturdy for a slender young guy like you.

Don't disappear on us, okay? We want to hear from you regularly.

It's also time for you to start paying forward by helping others who are struggling. Not everyone has your courage. Yet. This forum needs more male participation. Someone could be lurking on this forum right now... hoping for the kind of encouragement you have to offer.

As disheartening as your first stall can be, get ready to experience the opposite. On more than one occasion I've lost close to 3 or 4 pounds overnight. What a feeling! It makes me want to dance on the ceiling!!

Also, I like to weigh myself after a big Number Two. Who knew that going to the bathroom could be so exhilarating?

On November 4, 2018 at 10:45 AM, CyndieRI said:

On November 4, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Orchids&Dragons said:

I tend toward low drama. No dying instructions for hubby and kids; didn't even tell hubby the ATM password! However, waking up with a purple/green swollen neck from an attempt by the anesthesiologist to put in an IV and then a central line put in by the surgeon in the OR (nurses had failed 6 times while I was awake) kinda freaked me out. Found out that all my veins are tiny. Who knew?

They stuck me 14 times in pre-op trying to get an IV in. Both arms - both hands and both feet had multiple sticks. My surgeon was ready for me and I still didn’t have an IV in. At one point I had 4 people at once trying to get one in!! They finally got one but it wasn’t in very good. I woke up with a different one in my left wrist! (And for a week after surgery I looked like a junky! Lol)

All the nurses, including their "big guns" failed to get an IV started before my surgery. I finally had two anesthesiologists working in tandem with a hand-held doppler looking for a vein. (They succeeded, by the way.)

2 hours ago, FancyChristine15 said:

I wouldn't feel right lying to my family, but if that's what you think is right for you, then go for it. I have never kept my surgery a secret, although, I see why people would. Since I am farther out now, I will just eat what is there, but I will only be able to eat a bite of each thing.

My grandma passed away the week after my surgery, and people brought us SO MUCH food. I just sat with my family and drank my Protein Shakes while they ate. It wasn't that big of a deal. I just ate the way that I could, and they ate how they could. What mattered is that we were all together.

There are all kinds of families. Not everyone is kind or respectful toward other family members. Swanton_Bomb knows her family (we do not), and she has decided what is best for her. In an ideal world, it's true that lying is not "right", but in an ideal world, a family wouldn't unfairly judge or belittle another family member either. I can only imagine Swanton_Bomb's predicament. I hope you have a speedy recovery from your flu!

This topic makes me crazy. I was a chronic pain patient BEFORE my bypass surgery. To my horror, I was not treated for my existing pain but given such a low dose of morphine that it did nothing for me. My surgeon left for Sweden right after my surgery, his assistant never visited me, and the hospitalist failed her responsibility toward me miserably.

Leaving a patient to suffer needlessly is just wrong. And there's a big difference between being an addict and being dependent on opiates for pain relief. If I'm addicted to anything, it's not being in unrelenting pain. Pain medication allows me to lead a semi-normal life without feeling out of control. Only someone who has chronic pain can understand this. It's a horrible cycle. And for the record, pain medication does give one a "high"; it merely takes the edge off so that you don't feel the pain as much.

Nothing makes me crazier than being treated as a drug-seeking, attention-seeking hypochondriac. Some people in the health care field have become cold and indifferent to the suffering of those who live with chronic pain. They assume everyone is abusing.

@GreenTealael All I crave are nuts, seeds and dark @chocolate. Not even fruit anymore. I will have fruit occasionally because I work it into recipes but I realized I bought watermelon and gave it away because I had Brazil nuts I wanted instead. Save me.

Brazil nuts are one of the best sources for selenium, a micronutrient you need. How can you go wrong with that?

4 hours ago, Jed J said:

Nope, I am all set for the sleeve. I've been looking into doing something like this for the last 10 years. I am not real keen on the idea of a bypass.

What turned you off about the bypass? I went in thinking the sleeve was for me, but ended up getting the bypass. My surgeon presented the pros and cons of both procedures during my initial visit, and I left that visit 100% confident that the bypass was the better choice -- FOR ME. Both procedures have malabsorption issues. The sleeve, however, has the chance of developing GERD (even without a history of the condition) whereas the bypass does not.

Regardless of your choice, this community will support you! I am so excited to hear about your upcoming procedure. It never gets old hearing about someone who is embarking on such a life-changing journey. Promise that you will stay connected with us and that you will share your story.

3 hours ago, CyndieRI said:

Hi Jed! I was 365 at my highest (which is pretty high for a woman) and I also had the sleeve. A couple of my friends thought I should do the bypass because I had/have so much to lose but my surgeon left it up to me so I chose the sleeve because of the slightly lower complication rate. Surgery was 1 month ago and I’ve lost 61 lbs (38 before surgery and 23 since). The good news about being REALLY overweight is you tend to lose faster than people with less to lose. Good luck to you!!

You chose the sleeve because of the SLIGHTLY lower complication rate? If there was only a slight rate, why were you dissuaded?

I was never able to reach any of my Protein or fluid goals post-op. I was lucky to get 250 calories per day. I fretted about it briefly, then decided to concentrate on healing. You can make yourself crazy with all those grams and Fluid ounces. Some days you'll do fairly well meeting a recommended requirement, other days you'll feel like a complete failure.

My three-month labs turned out fine. I've lost almost 80lbs since June. The way I see it, I could have beaten up on myself daily for not meeting my protein/fluid goals or I could just relax (which is what I decided to do) and let each day unfold without stressing out. I'm glad I chose the latter. I feel lucky to be one of those who didn't face feeling hungry or starved post-operatively. I only rarely feel hungry now.

Some else I learned, don't compare. A fellow forum member and I had pretty much the same surgery date. She was losing like crazy... about 30lbs more than I was during the same time frame. I let it get to me. Once I got over that feeling (with the wise advice of friends here), I've been losing as well. Only a couple of brief stalls, too.

22 hours ago, Sosewsue61 said:

Ok. You guys are THE BEST!

@Matt Z I feel for you dude, I have had shingles 3 effing times. Hang in there

What the hell? I'm repulsed and amused at the same time. Where's the pee hole?

@mylighthouse Yes, I like to keep up on all pain medication research. I used to take tramadol once upon a time. https://www.drugs.com/article/tramadol-need-to-know.html

My pain was no longer controlled by tramadol, however. I now take morphine (300mg per day) and oxycodone for break-through. I take gabapentin as well.

For a while, I was excited by research regarding sea snail venom.

https://www.sciencealert.com/sea-snail-venom-could-provide-a-new-long-lasting-alternative-to-opioid-painkillers

and cone snail venom

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/cone-snail-pain-killers-could-be-100-times-effective-morphine/

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/Chronic-pain-relief-How-marine-snails-may-be-able-to-help-477550613.html

In my profile, I describe my bypass surgery and how I was not treated as a chronic pain patient having bariatric surgery but only as a bariatric patient. There is a huge difference. The pain medication I require to be comfortable is significantly greater than the average patient. This is a subject in which I can quickly go off in an incoherent tangent. Pain changes a person. It affects one's personality and makes life a day-to-day struggle.

For others who experience chronic pain not associated with their WLS, please share your experiences.

7 hours ago, AnA92212 said:

My doctor set the goal for 135 to 145 for me. I just kept working out and eating and I eventually landed at 116. At the time I was trying to conceive baby number 2 and doctor wanted me to gain 10 to 15 pounds. So, I did. Gained 30 pounds during pregnancy and only lost 10 of those before finding out I am pregnant with baby 3. Doctor thinks I need to stay around 140 to 150 for my body to be "happy". I am 145 now and 17 weeks pregnant so I will definitely gain some more but hope to be back down to 130 or 135 by my birthday next year.

So happy about all your pregnancies and babies. Being pregnant, and breastfeeding, in particular, were some of the most rewarding and memorable events in my life. Despite what pregnancy does to a woman's body, I wouldn't give up those times for anything.

Forgive my little tirade, Biddy zz. In no world I know is a pair of overalls, putting your body on exhibit. I was just venting. Our histories interrupt us at the most awkward of times. I apologize for stealing your thunder by calling attention to my past. It has nothing to do with your amazing accomplishments.

On October 21, 2018 at 9:49 PM, Biddy zz said:

I have lose skin. Under my arms and even below the elbow a bit, I really dislike. My tummy, though? Well that’s ok by me. I am 56, no one ses it apart from my significant other who says it is a gloriously soft pillow!

My thighs look a bit like elephant skin. Not fond of it, but I most-of-all am annoyed that my calves, not at all wrinkley, have lost NO inches at all. Hence no wrinkles. If I have to chose - I happily take the wrinkles and lose folds in exchange for the 100 lbs of fat I lost since RNY, or the 130-odd since high-weight. I LOVE being half myself! And I show it off. Gardening at goal weight - love my new dungarees, second hand, $10 - some Idaho farmer chick who’re them before me!

You look fab. I'm 57. How inspiring. I love your waspy waist. I love imaging a waist narrower than my hips!

I hate my upper underarm flab. It's a lousy dancer, too. I see myself destined to elbow-length sleeves. One pleasant surprise is that my once double chin is now taut. I dreaded a floppy turkey neck. Didn't happen. My thighs and other core areas look oddly shocking, but because they will remain private, I'm not terribly concerned with their lumpy-dumpy look. I can live with that, as long as I can cover those areas with fabric that doesn't show my contours.

I'm not interested in a "hot body". That's never been my mindset. Actually, I find the whole idea of being on display for others to ogle unsettling, even when I was young. No judgments on others who enjoy exhibiting their bodies. I think my childhood sexual abuse has a lot to do with never wanting to be "seen" sexually. I don't find anything empowering about showing flesh. I admire and respect women who feel comfortable in their own skins, but that confidence disappeared when I was repeatedly violated as a child, ages 7-13. Miscarriage at age 12.

@Frustr8 Why aren't you listing your most current surgery as your surgery date? Just curious.

I chose a goal weight that was more or less unattainable. After giving birth to four children, it's unrealistic to expect to shrink back to the same body. Men have no idea! I picked 130 lbs because, for my height (5' 6"), it's reasonable... but not for someone with my physical history. By picking a goal weight that is beyond the finish line, I feel I'll always have something to keep working toward. By picking an attainable "goal weight", I thought it might make me complacent and, therefore, feeling that I no longer needed to keep working on my weight.

"Humans are the fattest species on record at birth. A baby human is born with about 15 percent body fat—a higher percentage than any other species in the world. Only a small number of other mammals make it into the double digits at birth: about 11 percent for guinea pigs and around 10 percent for harp seals, for example. Even our nearest primate relatives are not born as fat as we are."

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2018/01/12/baby-fat-cute/?utm_source=dsctwitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dsctwitter#.W-G0wxRhPzI

Your question is not silly! (I've cornered that market. ).

Seriously, if something picks at your brain, makes you anxious, or causes you any distress and it's because you are unsure about something... how can that be silly? Ask away. There will almost always be someone else who will benefit from your question and the comments that follow.

We have essentially the same surgery date (me only two days before you). Those eggs did nothing wrong. You did nothing wrong. You were able to consume an excellent Protein source and keep it down. I remember when even one egg was a challenge. It still is, to some extent, but I just carry on with what my body is telling me. I'm actually grateful that my body is able to take in a bit more as time passes. Three spoonfuls of food just didn't seem like a meal. And it hurt after. Now, I can eat what looks like a normal-ish portion and it sits nicely in my pouch. The biggest no-no for me has been forgetting about drinking milk or Water during a meal. That ruins the meal. And how can a meal feel satisfying when pain follows? Sometimes it takes repeated failures to learn a lesson. Soup, oddly, doesn't seem to have the same effect, even when it's "thick" soup with lots of ingredients. I haven't figured out that one.