elforman

So, here's a topic I know may anger some, but is there anyone else who can't stand when someone just assumes you're religious and offers to pray for you? As an atheist, I never presume to guess what anyone else's beliefs are and I don't go around telling random people there is no god, especially in a time of turmoil or crisis. So when I tell someone I'm having surgery, or about any other significant event, whether in person or online, how about a little common courtesy and not just assuming I believe as you do and leaving your religion out of it? I'm not looking to debate the existence of god here, I'm just trying to get people to realize that other people believe differently than they do and to not make assumptions.

You both make decent points, but the crux of the matter is that if you are really trying to comfort someone, then make an actual effort and do not assume that what comforts you comforts them. Why is it so hard to accept that not everyone believes in your fairy tales and horror stories and that it's very arrogant of you to assume such. Instead, if you don't know the person well enough, why not ask the person you're trying to support what you can do to help. If the person says "You can pray for me, I'd appreciate that," then fine, you're in the clear, go ahead and get on your knees and pray you head off. But until you can provide absolute proof that your imaginary friend actually exists, do not invoke him/her/it/them in an effort to comfort me or anyone else unless you know it's wanted. That's called simple politeness. Don't treat everyone as if they're exactly the same with the same needs, same wants and same beliefs. Either respect those differences and make a miniscule effort or just remain silent. The fact remains to me is that there is absolutely no proof whatsoever of an supernatural being and I do not need reminders of how people believe in that idiocy to the point where they let it run their lives and use their believes to try to justify their trying to legislate the behavior of others. As an atheist, can you imagine how it sounds to hear government officials cite the bible in supporting separation of children from their parents simply because they're trying to escape poverty and violence? Don't give me this crap about "Well, they're not real Christians," because that's total bullshit. Every Christian thinks they're the true Christians, and it's going to be that way until there are no more Christians. Religion makes everything worse, period.

When I'm in distress the last thing I want or need is someone reminding me that they're calling on their imaginary friends for help, and even worse, they think that I should appreciate and support their delusion. I've literally suffered in my life because of people's moronic beliefs, ranging from girls not being allowed to date me by their parents in middle school because I wasn't the same religion as them to actually getting beaten up at age 13 after some idiot kid learned in church that the Jews killed Jesus. I had nothing but problems with my ex wife's family over the fact that I didn't believe in their fairy tales. I see women's reproductive rights restricted and gays demonized and declined services because of what religious books of fairy tales and horror stories tell their followers. I see school boards try to teach creationism and deny science and evolution. So to you and everyone else who says to shrug it off, I say screw you. I refuse to accept and normalize any religion in any form.

So because we're a minority we should just shrug it off? Is that how your mind works? If it's just a small number of people then they're insignificant and not worthy of consideration? Read through all the messages in this thread and come back to me when you're willing to discuss this with an open mind. And by the way, the number of Americans who profess to believe in god is shrinking rapidly. A Gallup poll in 2016 asking about belief in god had 10% responding no. And that number is undoubtedly much higher because of people who live in fear of not being to express their non-belief due to fear of rejection by their families and loss of employment and must pretend to believe to protect their livelihood. In some countries atheism carries the death penalty and their theistic government claims a belief rate of 100%. So they should just shrug it off as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United_States

My wife and I actually discussed this on our first date. I learned she was Jewish and raised in a kosher household. She ditched that the day she moved out and doesn't do anything in her daily life. She observes the holidays out of tradition not belief. I told her that my mother tried to raise me Jewish and failed miserably and that the only time I'll go to a temple or church is for a wedding or a funeral. I won't even go to a bar mitzvah because I don't believe that children at that age have made truly independent decisions about their religious beliefs and are only doing it because it's how they were raised and what they were taught is expected of them. So I told my wife that I'd have no problem with my kids being exposed to religion in the home but they'd also be exposed to my beliefs and could decide on their own what they believed and when, or if, they wanted to participate. She had no problem with that and we went on to discuss politics and our respective previous marriages. And that was just the first date. Proposed two months later, married 13 months after that and the kids are now 18 and 21, both atheists.

Thank you. That's the only point I've been trying to make.

Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from Futurama: Fry: So that's my story, Father Changstein El-Gamal. Is there anything religion can do to help me find my friend? Father Changstein El-Gamal: Well, we could join together in prayer. Fry: Uh-huh. But is there anything useful we can do? Father Changstein El-Gamal: No. I was at work once after a higher-up told everyone at a full company meeting that she had cancer and would be taking time off for treatment. Someone offered to lead a prayer and several agreed to join in. I said nothing, but while they were praying I took out my phone, made a quick donation to the American Cancer Society. Once everyone filed out I showed the receipt on my phone to the person with cancer and said "I don't pray, I act." That little $20 brought her to tears. She recovered just fine and when she came back to applause at the first such meeting after her return she thanked everyone as a group but singled me out for actually doing something.

At the top of the page is a purple/pinkish box that says "following" with a checkmark to the left of it. Click that and you'll see options to reduce or eliminate the number of notifications you get for the thread. Note that's on a web browser, I don't know about doing it through the app.

Where did I ever say it was my biggest gripe? I did say it was a irritant during stressful times and that people should be more considerate of people they're trying to console. Nothing more, nothing less. Is there any particular reason you read more into it?

This is about being considerate to someone you're trying to console. Taking their feelings and beliefs into account and not just making assumptions that what comforts you comforts them. I have said from top to bottom here that I know people who offer prayers mean well and I appreciate the sentiment, but would it be so hard for those people to take a half second and think of the other person's situation? And as for what is wrong with this country, just look in the mirror. It's you and your "it's good enough for me so it should be good enough for someone else" that's the real problem. I'm not you.

Actually, I do find the assumption that I'm religious to be highly offensive. It's a direct insult to everything I believe. So in the same way I don't disparage your beliefs in your time of need by making assumptions, you should be able to afford others the same courtesy.

I am merely asking for consideration that not everyone believes as you do. If your mother dies, do you want me coming up to you and telling you that there's no god because that's what I believe and what I think is what you want to hear? I'm sure it's not. So if you are going to try to comfort someone, unless you know specifically what comforts them, try leaving your religion out of it because not everyone believes in the same things you do.

I'm at work and my boss tells me she needs me to perform a certain task "religiously". So I say "Oh, you mean never?"

If every time you sneezed someone said "There is no god" would you just put it out of your mind? If every piece of currency said "There is no god" would you just put it out of your mind? If every time politicians spoke they said "There is no god" would you put it out of your mind? If you were about to undergo a life-changing medical procedure and strangers supported you by saying "There is no god" would you just put it out of your mind? If you lost someone close to you and someone in your time of grief said "There is no god?" would you just put it out of your mind? Try putting yourself in our shoes for a bit and understand how constantly inundated with religion we are. All I have said is that it is not asking much for people to keep their religion to themselves in times of grief.

You couldn't get rid of me over a religious issue that easily. I fight back and I'm well armed.

Sorry about that. I went out to run errands for a few hours and read two dozen or so comments when I came back and they kind of all blurred together after a while. I understand your perspective, and believe me, in non-distressing situations I laugh it off or ignore it without a second thought. But during stressful situations it seems to me a little more consideration of others is warranted.

During the holiday season if I'm not sure what someone believes and celebrates, if anything, I say "Happy Groundhog Day." If they point out that it's a month away i just tell them I'm getting a big head start, then they just walk away confused...

True story. My son was 13 and in Children's Hospital due to severe migraines caused by fibromyalgia. A rabbi came to the room to see if he could be of any service. I've got what would be considered a "jewish" sounding last name and going by visual stereotypes, people assume I'm jewish as well, same applies to my son. Note that I checked him in and at no point did they ask about religion but somehow my son was listed as jewish in their system. I had that corrected. Anyway, the rabbi comes in and asks my son how he's doing. My son was in pain so he just mumbled something unintelligible. The rabbi, just trying to make conversation said "You look like you're thirteen, have you had your bar mitzvah yet?" My son says "No." Rabbi said "So you're preparing for it?" My son says "No, I'm not having one." Rabbi, taken aback asks "Why not?" And my son, of whom I could not be prouder, says "Because my father loves me." Oh yeah, hope the recovery goes well and you have an excellent staff regardless of their condescension...

Wow, for a support group there sure are a lot of closed minds here all suggesting I just ignore it. Were it that simple why would I bring it up here in the first place? Everyone here is saying that the ones offering to pray mean well, and I don’t dispute that. I’m sure everyone is familiar with “The Golden Rule” that basically says “Treat others as you would want to be treated.” Well, you know what? That’s garbage. I’m not you. Chances are that I don’t want to be treated the same as you. If you don’t know me why would you make that assumption? The rule should really be “Treat others as THEY would like to be treated.” That’s a common maxim in management and it applies to real life too. If you don't know the other person, don't assume anything. If I am in a crisis, offering to pray for me is not consoling me. I don’t want religion brought up because I’m not religious and I don’t believe in any of it, and for someone to simply presume that is something I would want or appreciate during trying times is not being considerate of my feelings at all. I would never bring up my personal opinions when trying to console someone else and I am merely asking for the same courtesy. Someone above also called me a “militant atheist” and that could not be further from the truth. I married into a very religious family and they all knew my feelings from the start. On our first date I told my wife I was an atheist and she told me that she was Jewish and would only consider getting married by a rabbi. (It was an historic first date.) I loved her so I agreed to get married by a rabbi, though we did find one who did the entire ceremony in English, did not talk about Israel or anything else explicitly religious during the ceremony and did not require me to wear a yarmulke, so everyone was satisfied with our compromise. I am extremely tolerant of everyone’s beliefs no matter how misguided or ingrained I may believe they are. If you think I sound dismissive, I’d be happy to enlighten you to what it means to be an atheist in the United States or worse, places like the Middle East where it can be a death sentence. I would never ask anyone else to change their behavior to accommodate me and again I’d expect the same in return. I do believe in trying to effect change by setting a good example. So again, all I have asked is why people can’t be more considerate of others and not make assumptions. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

I wish people Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukah all the time, but only if I know that's what they celebrate or there's an obvious sign such as a cross necklace or yarmulke on the head. I don't assume anything.

It would be better had it linked to a recipe for Satanic Chicken. It's just like regular chicken but it's very, very spicy. Serve on your best pentagram-adorned china.

Quite honestly, I find the presumption that I believe in the unprovable and the impossible to be insulting. I don't look down on anyone else who does believe because in virtually every case it's how they were raised and what they were taught to believe.

That's fine. If it helps explain it, my problem is with people assuming that I believe in a god and that I should automatically appreciate their prayers. It is very presumptuous of them.

Because its equally disrespectful to my beliefs as it would be if I told someone there was no god when trying to comfort them.

It only came out in theaters a few weeks ago. It'll be three or four months before you'll see it on any TV.