honu

That's in addition to the FillCenterUSA in Pocatello, I gather. Neither one is a quick run from Boise, but a bit closer than others. I was just at the Seattle Bash a couple weeks ago and learned that there will be a FillCenterUSA in Boise very soon, like probably in March. That will be a good option, and they will have fluoro. This from the VP of FillCenterUSA, so think it will really happen. One of these days I'll have to get over there to see the eastern Idaho bandsters. dan

NO ONE should expect to lose before at least the first fill. Some do, but do NOT expect it. If people have to do pre-op diets, they'll generally lose some. As to number of fills before losing, all depends on how filled you are, and the most important of all..... ARE YOU COMPLIANT? That's the real tough one for most of us. You can always beat the band by liquid calories, soft calories (chocolate, for example), and so forth. The band just HELPS us be compliant, it doesn't MAKE us be compliant. cheers dan

I understand the anger, but..... The person who brought the cake doesn't deserve any crap about it. He isn't responsible for you and your feelings or your hunger. Saying "I'd rather you didn't bring cake since I'm trying to diet" is one thing, but an "ear full of hurt" is another. One of the things we all have to learn is how to deal with "bad stuff" around us, since it will always be there. It is our problem, not theirs. It is a bitch, and it isn't fair, and is just one of the many things we don't like. But I know your mama didn't promise you life would be fair....because if she did she was lying or stupid. I know you'll learn to deal with it, even though it is hard. Just another part of learning to live with a band. You'll make it, dan

Well, if the group owner has gone away and doesn't confirm you to join (since you have to tell them your weight and BMI to get added) you're out of luck. If someone abandons a yahoo group, it just goes along by itself. And no way will yahoo tell you who the manager is (though sometimes you can figure it out by looking through ancient emails) nor will they turn it over to someone else. I understand that from yahoo, but is still a pain. I'll see if I can get anyone to wake up over there. dan

Hi Ginger, Yes exercise and toning helps, but when you've got a hundred pounds lost there will still be a bunch that won't ever "just go away". Look at my website, and at the tummytuck part in particular (or the other pix too) and you'll see what I mean. The tummytuck took about ten pounds of skin and fat off of me. And I've always been a gym rat, even at 355 pounds. So exercise will help, but won't make all that loose skin go away. And fat cells never die, they just shrink...so they're still there. dan

I wouldn't think anyone should need any more pain meds than tylenol (acetominophen) after the first couple days. And that won't cause the dizziness as long as taking a normal amount. Remember, no aspirin or ibuprofen or similar. dan

You've only been banded five days. Back or shoulder pain is normal. It is a referred pain from your diaphragm, which gets stressed and stretched during the surgery. It will pass, though the more you walk the quicker it will go away. As noted already, you've been on drugs...anesthesia, and that's probably it. And you're perhaps dehydrated. You're NOT starving, except mentally. You could go a month with NO food. You wouldn't be happy, but wouldn't die. Now Water is VERY different. Just be sure you get in a couple of quarts a day. dan

Yes, the band is ONLY a tool. I can still drink milkshakes, eat ice cream all day, have lots of cream soups, all sorts of "evil" things that would make me gain rather than lose. Last year I DID gain 25 pounds eating comfort food and drinking LOTS of Starbucks Vente Hot Chocolates. Yes, I did it consciously, knowing I could get back on track later. Was spending lots of time with my dying brother, then his funeral.....then a couple months later my dying mother, then her funeral. When I needed a break I took this laptop to Starbucks and spent a few hours.....drinking.... But the tool still works, and I'm back below where I was 14 months ago before all that started.... Whenever you're ready, the band is ready (at least when it has a proper fill). dan

Yes, the photos are pretty dramatic. Both the weight loss ones and the TT ones. Still need to get up the SmartLipo ones, but that'll probably wait until this weekend. I can say that after two weeks I can see the difference (and unlike regular lipo this takes time for the dead fat cells to be absorbed, since they don't suck them all out) and feel the difference. Still not fond of the girdle/device, but....that too shall pass. dan

Yeah, I'm a guy, but just had my boobs SmartLipo-ed a couple weeks ago. Whatever you decide to do or not do, be sure to get AT LEAST four consultations. Just as with band, don't go by price alone. The most expensive doc I talked to for the TT was the least useful in my opinion. I ended up with a mid priced one, but went by what he said and discussed and examined, not by anything else. Website shows some of it, though not yet the SmartLipo. Will try to get that on web soon. Oh, also, some have to have boobs redone, but the newest and best silicone boobs (made by same company as made your band) appear like they'll last longer. But like anything in life, no guarantee. Some also find that there's still enough fat/tissue left after weight loss that they don't need implants if they're willing to have them be lifted but not as "perky" as they'd be with an implant. dan

After 4 years I can't imagine going back to life without the band. And you do NOT get the band removed. It'll go with you to your grave, same as an artificial hip or whatever.....assuming you take care of it. It'll definitely last longer than you will, and you'll last a lot longer WITH it than WITHOUT it. Really. You DO have to learn to eat differently. VERY differently. But that's a good thing. dan@riverofdata.com if you want more info. Or look at my website to see what it has done for me.

This is a great place, but if you want more/different support on the same topic, check out ExtraordinaryBandsters@yahoogroups.com Some of the same people, many different, all started with BMI over 50, some up into the 90s. dan

There are MANY, mostly legitimate and related to insurance, reasons why US docs won't do foreign fills. There is supposed to be a fill center in Pocatello, but don't know if it is still there. The one in Eagle closed as far as I know. Why not join IdahoBandsters@yahoogroups.com for more local info. dan

So how are you? I didn't even know that anyone was doing bands in IF. Some of us get together in Boise on occasion, and there is a group called IdahoBandsters@yahoogroups.com that you might want to join. Most are in Boise area, of course, but don't let that hold you back. dan

Several possibilities. If indeed you were just banded 3 or 4 days ago, it could be after effects of anesthesia. Some of that is in your system for several weeks. The more you drink the faster you'll get that out. Are you drinking AT LEAST two liters a day, preferably more? You could also be dehydrated. And are you getting in any nutrition. Remember, you've had major surgery, and though you should be drinking and walking, it takes a while to get back to "normal". dan

Yeah, when you start eating regular stuff again you won't keep on losing because you'll be getting more than minimal calories and you won't be cleaning out your intestines. If you REALLY want to do this kind of insane crap, here's another....though think I'd rather just take some of the stuff they give you before a good old colon exam....or good old enemas..... If all of this nonsense was worthwhile we wouldn't need or want bands, would we. And the WHOLE IDEA IS TO GET AWAY FROM THE DAMN DIET MENTALITY AND LEARN TO EAT LIE NORMAL PEOPLE> This is the "Master Cleanse", and this is from New York Times a couple days ago: WHEN Teron Beal, a songwriter and aspiring actor in Manhattan, was looking to drop weight quickly for a photo shoot, he didn’t double up on gym visits, gulp metabolic boosting pills or limit his diet to leafy greens and lean protein. Instead, he took a more drastic approach: he tried the “master cleanse,” a fast that requires subsisting for 10 or more days solely on an elixir of fresh-squeezed lemon juice, cayenne pepper, maple syrup and Water. “I had only three weeks and I needed the difference to be noticeable,” said Mr. Beal, adding that he lost nearly 10 pounds during his 12-day fast in July. “The first few days were horrible, but by the fifth day I woke up and looked in the mirror and saw two ab muscles that had eluded me for years. I was grumpy no longer.” While popular diets and fasts come and go, master cleanse remains a perennial favorite, a kind of folk regimen that owes its popularity to word of mouth and the Internet. Created in the 1940’s by a nutrition guru, Stanley Burroughs, to treat ulcers and other internal ailments, the fast enjoyed a vogue in the late ’70s after the publication of his book “The Master Cleanser.” Its fans then were health-conscious types, interested in purging their bodies of impurities and toxins like pesticides and food additives. But in recent years master cleanse has enjoyed yet another vogue among people seeking to shed pounds in a short time. Celebrities, of course, are in the vanguard. On Oprah Winfrey’s show, the singer and actress Beyoncé Knowles announced that she had lost 20 pounds on the fast to prepare for her starring role in the new film “Dreamgirls.” Robin Quivers, Howard Stern’s long-suffering sidekick, told People magazine that she did the fast on three separate occasions in 2004 and shrunk to 145 pounds from a peak of 218. (She heard about it from the magician David Blaine, no stranger to challenging his body.) And on a recent episode of “30 Rock,” the NBC comedy, Tina Fey’s character is asked: “What are you doing? South Beach? Master cleanse?” She did look skinnier. The Internet teems with testimonials to the cleanse, also known as the lemonade diet, claiming that it fights disease, clears the mind as well as acne, and increases energy. Bloggers chronicle their daily fasting. Master cleanse video diaries can be found on YouTube, and a cottage industry has developed with various companies peddling cleansing kits including all ingredients for the beverage except lemons. Never mind that most nutrition and diet experts advise against multiday fasting. “I cannot believe how this thing has had a total revival,” said Joy Bauer, a nutritionist and the author of “The 90/10 Weight-Loss Plan.” “People want a quick fix and they want to be thin so badly that they’re vulnerable and open to almost anything.” Ms. Bauer estimated that fasters who drink six glasses of the lemony potion a day — the low end of the recommended amount — are consuming about 650 calories, far less than the 1,600-plus calories the average woman needs to maintain her weight or the roughly 2,400 calories a man requires. “Of course you’re going to lose weight,” she said. “You’re starving yourself.” Seldom do the pounds stay off, she added, and people have a tendency to binge once they begin eating again. Still, many are willing to disregard the word of nutritionists, seduced by the notion that the only things standing between them and a slimmer body are a citrus-flavored drink and several days of discomfort. Last week at Amoy’s Beauty, the hair salon of Amoy Pitters in the East Village, a brunette complained about her holiday weight gain. “Girl,” Ms. Pitters said, “you need to do master cleanse.” Ms. Pitters, who first tried the fast four years ago at the prompting of one of her clients, Kacy Duke, a personal trainer to several celebrities, said she was skeptical at first. But 10 days and dozens of lemons later, she was eight pounds lighter, and elated. “I fit into my ultraskinny jeans and I couldn’t believe it,” Ms. Pitters, a petite clotheshorse, said. “I was so proud of myself for sticking with it, because it wasn’t easy.” Ms. Pitters estimated that 85 percent of her more than 200 clients have tried the cleanse after hearing her rave. She uses it after the holiday season and before trips to bikini-friendly locales. “I know it works,” she said. “And you’d be surprised how many models I know who do it, too.” Kristina Wong, a performance artist in Los Angeles, lasted on the fast for only five days, but she also saw results. “I looked great,” said Ms. Wong, who uploaded a video diary of her fasting experience on YouTube in September. “No more stomach rolls. I was such a skinny mini.” Ms. Duke, who puts herself on the lemonade diet four times a year for a week to 12 days, pointed to other supposed benefits. “My eyes are clearer, my skin has a different glow and some of my best running times have been while I’m on master cleanse,” she said. She introduced it to her client Denzel Washington and “he loved it,” she said. The enduring popularity of the cleanse may have as much to do with its instant results as with the drink’s relatively inoffensive taste (think lemon Gatorade with a spicy kick) and simple recipe: 2 tablespoons lemon juice, 2 tablespoons Grade-B maple syrup, 1/10 teaspoon cayenne pepper and 8 ounces of spring or purified water. According to “The Master Cleanser,” Burroughs’s book, the lemon acts as a purifier and provides potassium, the cayenne pepper adds B and C Vitamins and aids in circulation, and maple syrup, a sugar, provides energy and minerals. Burroughs suggested that fasters drink anywhere from 6 to 12 glasses of the stuff a day as well as a mixture of water and sea salt in the morning and an herbal laxative tea in the evening, to help aid in waste removal. On message boards at Web sites like CureZone.com, writers warn that it’s best to stay close to a restroom. “One day it was just two hours of me running back and forth to the bathroom,” Ms. Wong said. All that time in the loo can adversely affect one’s social life. Many fasters also say so long to the business lunch, the after-work cocktail and dinner at the latest restaurant, for fear of temptation. Samuel Klein, the director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the medical school of Washington University in St. Louis, is leery of master-cleanse-like regimens because there is no data that prove they provide any medical benefit and no evidence that fasting helps rid the body of toxins, which happens naturally, he said. While fasting for a few days is not dangerous, Dr. Klein said, “Fasting for too long can deplete muscle tissue, including your heart muscle, and it can reduce the size and functioning of organs like the kidney and liver.” He is just one of many nutritionists who caution that fasting can be counterproductive. Some say it can even slow down the metabolism, making it even more difficult to lose weight in the future. Try telling that to the converts. Peter Glickman, the author of “Lose Weight, Have More Energy and Be Happier in 10 Days,” is among them. Mr. Glickman, who at 6-2 once weighed more than 230 pounds, had already made over his lifestyle, going on a vegan diet and losing 42 pounds, when he came across the fast three years ago online. He lost 23 pounds in 20 days, he said. He sold his software company and went into the business of promoting the diet. It has proved lucrative. On his Web site, themastercleanse.com, he sells Burroughs’s original book ($8.95), his updated version and an accompanying CD ($31.95), and a master cleanse kit ($49.95; just add lemons). He wouldn’t give specifics, but said his book is in its fourth printing. “I just put in an order for 10,000 more the other day,” he said. Adaora Udoji, an anchor at Court TV, grew up watching her father use the fast. “We all just thought he was a weirdo,” she said. But after quitting smoking last year, she fasted for 14 days, and now she is a believer. “It’s almost like a religious experience,” she said. “The first few days you’re obsessing about food and by the fourth or fifth day, you get this inexplicable burst of energy and you feel like you can run laps around the world.” Ms. Bauer, the nutritionist, is not convinced. “I really think this chanting about people feeling so invigorated by this really comes from the happiness that people feel about losing weight,” she said. Running laps was the furthest thing from Ms. Wong’s mind during her fast. She found herself staring longingly at takeout menus and scouring food blogs. “I drive a car that runs on vegetable oil so it smells kind of like a fast-food restaurant, and there were times when I was so hungry I just wanted to pull over and put my mouth around the exhaust pipe,” she said.

You need to see a counselor. Your problems are in your head, not your body. Well, the way you're not eating, they're in your body. You've changed from obesity to anorexia, one extreme to another. Neither the first nor the last to do so, but you need to deal with it. Also, why is your goal so low? There are VERY few of us, at least if we've lost more than 50 to 70, who will ever reach a BMI of 25. No big deal. We should find a weight and size where we are HAPPY, and the HAPPY and CONTENTED is not based on size, or shouldn't be. I was at 30 BMI when I had my plastic surgery, and will never see 25 BMI unless I'm dead, and maybe not then. No big deal. Really, find a person to talk to besides just us. You're starving yourself now. dan/honu www.mylapband.tk

Hi Angela, I guess I wasn't clear. What I'm trying to say is that I seriously doubt it is due to THE BAND ITSELF, the piece of plastic. You've had anesthesia, you've changed what you eat, you may have changed your exercise patterns, had new stresses in your life (such as the very band itself is stressful to most of us, particularly emotionally) and perhaps a number of other things. Yes, all of those are "because of the band" in one sense, but not directly because of the piece of plastic itself. You could have changed all of those things, had some other surgery, etc, without a band, and also had your MS affected. I have family members with MS and Lupus and other related disorders/diseases, and you're right, they're all very complex and none of them have simple answers (or even a consistent set of symptoms), and that things can change. But they can also change for "no reason at all", or at least no reason we'll ever understand. Those are a couple of the worst things I know of...and I'm thankful that I don't have either one. I simply don't want to say "having MS and getting a band is a bad thing", as it isn't for most, even though it may in some way be for you. cheers, and don't give up on it yet, dan

Hello everybody, My pictures are already on the web elsewhere, so I won't copy them here. http://www.riverofdata.com/lapband/pictures.htm has a whole bunch of them, from right before, to after, to after tummytuck. If you want to see tummytuck pictures (a bit icky, as some are right after surgery, but nothing indecent in them), they're at: http://www.riverofdata.com/lapband/tummytuckpix.htm I haven't put up the ones from the second tummytuck, but these will show you that having that done isn't trivial, like the band itself is (well, trivial surgically, not in any other way). Text to go with pictures is at: http://www.mylapband.tk/ cheers dan honu@riverofdata.com

WHY do you think the band had anything to do with your MS? Lots of people with MS get bands and no issues related. dan

Amen, Sue. There is no one right answer for everyone. Some do great in OA, WW, JC, LAWL, etc, etc. Others do it on their own, or with prayer or meditation or..... And of course some never have the issue of obesity. Obesity is no more one disease than cancer is one disease. There are many reasons for obesity, and many causes of cancer. In both cases there are many that just can't be explained by science or logic. That naturally pisses us off since we always want nice, clear, simple answers, just like we see on Jeopardy. Welll..... I have friends with bypasses, and others who've done fine losing well over a hundred pounds on their own by whatever method they used. That's wonderful. But I'd lost over a thousand pounds before the band, as I'm sure many others here have too. Lose 30, gain 40, lose 50, gain 60, and so on. Good old vicious cycle. So, whatever works, find it....but don't give up on a band if you've only had it a few months. After all, did you gain a hundred pounds of ugly fat in a few months? Not likely. And weight is always slower to lose that to gain for any obese person. Yeah, life ain't fair, but no one promised us it would be, did they? Hang in there, y'all. I'm just on a short break from being with my mother....who is getting very near her trip on this earth....almost 87 and now down to skin and bones and probably not but a few weeks left. And I'm doing my damndest to not eat over it. At least my weight has been stable for the last week, and I trust it will be again....and maybe even down. But that's not all that important now....she is....and my siblings. best to all dan

Comments below, as usual

Glad that you recognize the issues. That's the first step. The best way to avoid ice cream is to NEVER have it in the house. The second best is to NEVER go to BaskinRobbins or any other such store. Yes, most of us are addicts, and most of us could use some professional help with that. But keep working on it, and same to the others who've been fussing about not losing. The ONLY reason for not losing is eating too much and exercising too little. The band is a TOOL to help you and is NOT a magic answer. dan

For pix of a male before and after, and including tummytuck pictures (a bit "gross" if you can't stand stitches, drains, etc., but that's part of the adventure), check out www.mylapband.tk Pictures are all "graphic" but absolutely nothing obscene or nasty...except for the "gross" to some people noted above. dan

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