Little Green

LOL at vodka brain! No worries, I think I wasn't clear. I had done 2 out of my 6 visits but I missed the third in May, and then ended up missing the fourth one in June. (I wish I had known that missing the May one was a dealbreaker and I wouldn't have stressed so much over missing the June one too!) So now, what would have been my 3rd diet visit (or 5th if I hadn't missed) on July 13 will now be my first. I thought about that too, about someone letting me know. I guess I can see it both ways - it's on me to show up every month and really it's a sign that you're dedicated and ready for surgery. But, things do happen like in my case so it would have been nice to know. I'm not really upset but I can imagine had my situation with the timing been different, I would have been - so I wanted to warn others. I hope most people are like you and their surgeons emphasize this!

I would give them a call or send them a message through your insurance portal if they have that. They will usually clarify for you in everyday language.

Since someone asked, I eat double fiber wheat bread, which 4 grams per slice. So there CAN be somewhat high-fiber bread. Not exactly sure if/when/how much I'll be eating of that after surgery, though, and certainly during the losing phase I won't make it a staple or priority. My surgeon's dietitian recommends a normal healthy diet with (obviously) a focus on protein. I know a lot of surgeons recommend a keto-like diet and I'm very thankful mine does not. I don't see a reason why healthy foods like beans, fruit, and whole grains have to be cut out completely and put in the mental "bad!" category as if they're the same as a candy bar.

Congratulations!!! What a long and frustrating process, but I know it will be worth it for you!

The guilt is really a problem for me as well. Even preop I already feel embarrassment that I "had to have" WLS to lose weight. Just today on facebook I saw a video making the rounds about a man on YouTube (I forget his username) who lost hundreds of pounds and then had skin removal surgery. The title was, "What's your excuse?" Against my better judgment I read the comments and it was filled with "I bet he had gastric bypass." "It's easy when you have surgery to stop you from eating." "I could do that if I could afford surgery, too." and so on. It's like all the work he did, even though they could literally see video of him sweating and working his ass off, was invalidated because he (may have) had surgery. Very frustrating. So, I'm going to keep this in my back pocket for those days when I get that in-the-spotlight feeling of guilt. You're very welcome by the way and thanks so much for responding.

I recently told two of my very close family members about my decision to have WLS. They are extremely supportive, understanding, and curious about the surgeries, process, etc. One of the things that came to me while we were talking is the following analogy. I still have that nagging guilt that this is something I should be able to do on my own - but when I thought about this analogy something clicked for me. I wondered what others thought about it or if you would change anything. Weight loss is like climbing a mountain. It takes planning, strategy, tools, strength, support from like-minded friends, and plain hard work. But it's even more challenging because all the climbers are carrying a boulder on their backs. The size and weight of the boulder is different for every person because it's decided by things like genetics, age, medical conditions, amount of excess weight, personality, outlook, community support, and others. Some people are just really strong, or maybe their boulders are pretty small, and so they are able to make it to the top under their own steam. Some people are able to make it partway up the mountain, but have to stop and stay there. They may even fall back to the ground. But, unfortunately, for most of us the boulders are too big for us to get more than a few feet off the ground, and every time we fail it gets a little bigger and a little heavier and we get a little wearier. Some people are able to shrink their boulders a little, by therapy or meditation, but still aren't able to make it all the way. Weight loss surgery is like having a friend who says, "You know, that looks really hard and I want you to succeed. I'll take that boulder off and hold it while you make the climb." You still have to do the work of climbing, every difficult and sweaty minute of it. You still need the tools, and the support of your friends. But you don't have the heavy rock weighing you down. It's not a guarantee you'll be successful, but without the burden of carrying that boulder, you finally have your best shot at making it to the top. What are your thoughts? I started to overanalyze things a bit and started thinking, well after the mountain, maybe maintenance is like a hike with a pack or something LOL but I didn't want to take it too far and get it all muddled. Let me know if this helps you in any way, if you'd change part of it, or anything else. -Annie

Thank you so much! That means a lot. I feel like this is going to really help me explain to others in my life why some people need WLS to be successful.

Yessss... thank you. That is what made the difference for me and I was like, I have to post this even though it's a little cheesy. I still get the sort of pinned-down feeling about how WLS is "cheating" or the "easy way out." Because yes, it is easier. But there's still so much work and planning and plain mental toughness involved in being successful. If I can add to the analogy again, I feel like people think WLS is having a helicopter come pick you & your boulder up and carry you to the top of the mountain, but it's not at all. The more I have researched and read the more serious I have become about making permanent changes because that is the only way it will work.

Those are good analogies too! One of the things my therapist says about my (hopefully in-the-past-now) attitude toward making mistakes with eating is that I'm like an alcoholic who says, "Well I had a drink so I fell off the wagon. Might as well have the whole bottle." You know those days when you give in and have something sweet or eat too much at a potluck... then you're like, "f**k it I might as well have the ice cream and the McDonald's or whatever I want." Definitely trying to get better about that! Just because you had one drink/one unhealthy meal does not mean you're doomed to failure. Maybe in the mountain analogy that is like if your foot slips while you're climbing, you don't have to let go completely and drop, just hang on and try to find a new foothold. You could also draw some similarities between alcoholism/drug addiction and overeating/obesity because they are chemistry-driven diseases in our bodies but the mechanisms are still somewhat poorly understood compared to other diseases. And, in our society we moralize them and make them into solely willpower issues. The one thing that's different is the alcoholic or drug addict can live without booze or pills... we can't live without food. That's what makes it so hard! Thanks for your analogy as well, it helped to think about that! Congrats on being a week post-op!

Great point! The maintenance of excess weight lost is the whole point, really. I lost 80 pounds like it was nothing a couple years ago. All but 10 pounds of it is back now and my boulder feels like it doubled in size.

Love it! I've enjoyed reading your posts around the BP forums. Happy climbing to you too!

James, I REALLY enjoyed reading your mini e-book. Thank you so much for posting this.

Wow, that must be so hard! I'm sorry. Everything I have read in my surgeon's instructions say that you will not be discharged without someone else with you. Have you cleared that with your surgeon? I would hate for you to get a surprise on the day of surgery.

Awesome job on your loss!!!! That's almost 9 pounds, not a baby loss by any means. Almost 1lb per day! I too have had a rough go of eating healthy during the supervised diet. I have been finding lots of excuses for why it's okay to eat X or Y, and I also tend to be an all-or-nothing person where I'm either eating 1200 calories or 3000 calories. So I have been feeling like, Ugh why spend these last few months eating nothing when I'm going to spend the next 18 months after surgery eating nothing! Lately, I realized that fantasizing about weight loss after surgery won't actually get me there... only actually doing the work will get me there. DUH but my messed up brain needs silly reminders like that. And insurance might deny me if I start showing up to the surgeon's office with gains every month. Why sabotage myself??? So I started refocusing by doing a little here and there. Eating at home for most meals makes a huge difference for me as well as cutting out soda or other sugared beverages. So I've done that and now am focusing on tracking my food in MFP, and choosing food with a lot of protein, something the dietitian asked me to do at my last visit. With these two things combined with eating at home the calories naturally come down to the 1200-2000 range depending on the day. I am also drinking a lot of water, trying out some flavored waters I might use after surgery, and eating any time I am hungry so that I don't feel deprived or like I'm running out of willpower. However, I am going to compromise a bit by having 2 times per month to go to a favorite place with my husband and enjoy a meal there. This limits the # of "favorite places" and "last meals" I can have, instead of hitting up every restaurant in town frantically as I think of them I'll be visiting 10-12 of them in a deliberate way and having an actual date/evening out. To me this is a more mindful version of food funerals where I will be able to truly enjoy and savor the meal and the occasion. Honestly I don't know if it's the right thing to do, lol, but I feel more calm and stable about my chances for success since making these changes the last few weeks. So you should be having surgery in Decemberish? That's my plan. Are you doing VSG or RNY?

I am a newbie too, but I've been researching for nearly 2 years and have found this site and YouTube extremely helpful. Most people on YT are sleevers (Foodie Turned Sleevie is one of my favorites as well as Short Sleeved T, VSGTanya2011, and LaurenLosing) but there are some gastic bypass or "RNY" as well (Diva Taunia who commented above as well as Minnie Me in TN) plus many others who I haven't mentioned. My personal opinion is that no one should have surgery until they could thoroughly explain the process, benefits, risks, potential side effects, and expectations of life after surgery to a friend who knows nothing about it at all. You should know what you're getting into inside and out (pun fully intended!). Now, I don't think you can ever be completely prepared just because everyone's body and genetics are different, but you should be as prepared as possible because unlike other surgeries this is a lifetime commitment to a new way of thinking and eating. I haven't found books *quite* as helpful just because they are so general, but I think they could still be valuable in getting an overall view of surgery as sometimes forums or videos are super specific and use terms or phrases you don't know. I bought Weight Loss Surgery for Dummies in a hard copy but I have a bunch of Kindle ones, too, like Weight Loss Surgery: The Real Skinny and The Weight Loss Surgery Coping Companion. Hit up the library and skim through a few before borrowing or buying. Which surgery to choose is one of the most often asked questions so you are not alone in wondering which one to choose and why! Research them both and ask your surgeon if s/he thinks you are a better candidate for one or the other. If s/he says you're okay to have either one, it's up to you! That's what my surgeon said, which was a tiny bit frustrating as I would have preferred to have the decision made for me! I am most likely choosing the RNY because (among other reasons) due to my life circumstances with my husband's accident I would prefer to lose as much excess weight as quickly as possible, and at one year out the RNY has a higher average % of excess weight lost (EWL). At 2 years out the average is around 70% EWL for both the sleeve and the RNY, though, so you will get there either way as long as you permanently change your eating habits! You asked someone what you can do to get your head right before surgery and I'm not sure if you got an answer. Seeing a therapist (independent of the psychological evaluation you'll get from your surgeon's program) is definitely the way to go. I am working with a counselor now to work out some of the mental kinks I have about eating and food. I would rather do this mental/emotional work now than later after surgery while I am in pain or hungry or frustrated. One other thing I will say and PLEASE do not take this as negative or as saying anything about your relationship specifically. I have read and also seen a ton of posts here and on other forums about partners who are overweight becoming jealous, angry, or even sabotaging the person who had surgery. (Partners who are not overweight can experience these issues as well!) Unfortunately it can bring out a lot of hidden insecurities as they feel left behind or anxious that you will change or leave them. The book I mentioned above called Weight Loss Surgery: The Real Skinny had a GREAT section about this. Just be honest and talk a lot both before and during your weight loss - keep the lines of communication open! WHOA this post is super long, I'm terribly sorry about that! Stick around and read as much as you can, it's an incredibly helpful forum!!!

Hey friends, Getting a little farther into my WLS plan now since the last time I posted - I picked a surgeon and should be having surgery in early to mid December, provided all goes well! I have a quick question about how WLS affects singing. If you are in a chorus, choir, church singing, etc. please read on! I am a full-time student and I sing with my college's chorus as well as a regional choir and I also take private singing lessons. I timed my surgery to be at the end of my exams and our winter concerts, so depending on my surgeon's schedule it should be the 2nd-3rd week of December. This will give me approximately 3-3.5 weeks until rehearsals start again. I am leaning toward RNY which as we all know is slightly more complicated internally. Do you think I will be pain-free and energetic enough to stand and sing with deep breaths for several hours per week? I know there are likely several factors that go into a question like this so I understand if your answer is "Well I personally had this experience but you might have a totally different one," and that's perfectly OK and would still be very helpful to me. Thank you so much in advance! -Annie

I'm pre-op and other than the strategic few I have told already (husband, parents, a couple of close friends), I will probably keep mum for now. I want to limit the advice and opinions I receive to only those from people I personally choose to have in my pre-op squad. But, after surgery I will be willing to tell people because I think there is no way to get rid of the stigma without talking about it. Only when people can see up close the amount of work and sweat that goes into the WLS lifestyle will they start to lose the "you took the easy way out" mindset. Now, I don't think every single WLS patient needs to be that ambassador. But I personally see myself taking on that role because I'm really good at educating people through communication & conversation - people are used to me being on my soapbox

Thank you @OutsideMatchInside, that's helpful to know! Thank you so much @Diva Taunia (and I think we are acquainted from another internet adventure, FYI, or at least I know you!), your response was really helpful. Did you have complications that caused your longer hospital stay, and if so do you think it may have affected your experience? Based on your response, generally, I think I might be okay to try and rehearse for the ensembles since it will only be a few weeks and it will be all new material anyway, but I might have to delay or drop my private lessons. They are actually through my college and for credit, so I'm not sure if my instructor has the leeway to allow for a month off due to institutional rules about attendance. I will get more info from her so I can plan accordingly! Thanks again!

I recommend the IUD. It's the most effective, has a low rate of complication, and you can take it out any time with a simple office visit when you & your partner decide you're ready for another child (and no waiting period to let your hormones regulate like with BC). I have Mirena and between that and PCOS, I have not had a regular period in years. It's awesome lol. Mirena is known to lighten or stop periods. The medical literature included with the IUD said it's only about 20% of people but literally everyone I know who has Mirena has had lighter or no periods, so YMMV. I don't recommend the copper IUD if you already have a heavy flow b/c it's known to make periods and cramps worse.

I've thought about this because many people in my (non-WLS) weight loss online communities talk about going through this. They say they start getting it even when they are still considered obese! I'm not sure how I will handle it if it happens to me, although I'd like to think I'd just be super sincere and say, "No, I actually still weigh 220 pounds! I've got 50+ pounds to go. Isn't that crazy?!" to make them feel bad for asking. In real life I will probably stutter and make an awkward comment... LOL!

I'm so glad to read this thread and see that there are still a bunch of "vets" out there sticking around for us newbs! Thank you SO much - I love to read through archives, but I know I will need plenty of current peeps around to answer my own questions, too. I JUST joined the site in December, and read a ton of stuff, but somehow I missed the kerfuffle a few weeks ago. I came back the last few days and noticed while reading through threads that people's profile photos were gone, names weren't "clickable," etc. I was so confused until I finally found Alex's post that explained it so I'm more in the loop now! I have to say, I'm new to this forum but not to forums in general. I tend to see it both ways... on any forum there is usually a core group of vets (or "regs" as they are usually called) that make up the bulk of the posting and set the terms of the culture. They tend to see it as "their" board because of the time they dedicate to posting and building a community. Unfortunately sometimes the culture that builds up isn't exactly what the board admins want, particularly if the board is part of a bigger brand. One of the forums I'm a member of dealt with this issue by just removing the link to the forums from their website altogether. LOL. It's kinda funny, actually, we hardly ever get new members anymore which cuts down on the drama! Better for the blood pressure, bad for the gossip factor. Anyway, even being out of the loop of the "regs" I did notice some extremely presumptive tough-love going around... I'm sure it gets old for the vets to say the same thing multiple times but part of being a member of a forum is realizing how many people never read a single thing before posting - they have a question, they register an account, they post the question. They don't know that four posts down you just told someone the same darn thing for the umpteenth time this week. So, jumping down someone's throat right away simply for asking a question (even if it's, admittedly, a stupid or reckless one) tends to create drama and then people choose sides and jump in to argue it until the house burns down. Believe me, I'm very used to a blunt tone from my previous forum experience and even I had to raise my eyebrows multiple times per visit to BP. That said, I appreciated the actual message of the tough love even if I thought the tone was overly aggressive, and I feel I am armed much better for the battle to come because of those posts. However, I also think it's Alex's prerogative to call the shots, particularly as he is a WLS professional with colleagues in the medical community. Protecting your brand is very important - it's not just about your revenue but your goodwill and reputation in the particular community you are trying to reach out to. I cringed when I read that some of his colleagues remarked about the negative feedback they had heard from patients about BP. Ouch... there's too much invested into this website to allow that to continue. He makes the rules and we have to play by them. And, I personally did not see reading the PM's as a big deal - but, that is maybe because I am a longtime redditor, where there is absolutely no expectation of privacy from the admins. So, like I said, I see it both ways. I see why people were upset and left, and I see why Alex put his foot down. I'm sad that there was a mass exodus of knowledgeable people - but I am so glad to read this post and realized many of you have stayed, and maybe we can use the kerfuffle as a reset button to build up another great, solid community here. Thanks for letting me ramble!

Pre-op here so I can't speak to anything specific to the WLS, but I have lots of experience with tracking food so I thought I would chime in. Take this newbie's advice with a grain of salt. Do you keep a food journal? My dietitian told me those who keep a journal (even if not necessarily counting calories) lose 2x the weight as those who don't. It might be worth just taking 4-5 days to actually track every calorie, by weight, just to make sure you're eating the portions you think you are. I read a study that says obese people are X times more likely (can't remember the statistic) to underestimate portion size than normal weight people. Crazy!!!

Closing out the day's journal is helpful for those of us who need the "reward center" of the brain to kick in to reinforce habits. I have about 40 friends on MFP and I like the social network aspect of it, so I would want my friends list to know that I am completing my diary each day. I've been using MFP for 3 years so I'm not sure I could bear to switch apps! Hmmm. Good conversation to have, I'm glad I know this pre-op! I will probably create a fake food called "Phantom Calories" or something, maybe make it 20 calories and just change the # of servings as needed so I can get to the 1000 or 1200 it requires.

I went to my first WLS information seminar today at a hospital in a city about 90 minutes from me. My husband had extensive inpatient treatment there after a bad accident, so we are familiar with and trust the hospital, plus they are an ASMBS certified center. I liked the surgeon and I gave them my contact info to set up an initial appointment. However, I am now feeling like I should speak with another surgeon/center near to where I live before I decide to move forward with this hospital. Based on the information I received today about preop screenings, the visits seem like they will be multiple times monthly by the time you do the dietitian, psychologist, labs, sleep study, etc. I wouldn't not choose the hospital I visited with today solely because of the distance, but if I found another reputable surgeon nearby that I liked, the distance might cause them to win out. What do you think? How many surgeons did you see before choosing one?