gadgetlady

:popcorn: Popcorn, anybody? I'm just gonna sit back and watch

:pound: It's just nothing but funny now!

:faint:Welcome to this thread, QT. There are secret initiation rites that you are apparently unaware of. They state that everyone who enters, regardless of beliefs and how well stated or unoffensive they are, must be hazed by one or more other members.:omg: If I were you, I'd leave immediately before you, heaven forbid, try to defend yourself or your beliefs.

I read this story aloud to my husband (not the yahoo one but the msnbc one) and could barely continue through my laughter and guffaws. Too, too funny.

Yeah, I wondered the same thing. Actually, I was thinking about this several years ago and wondering if "they" could ever acquire a sample of Jesus' DNA (I wasn't, of course, thinking of this in connection with non-existent bones, but rather with the Shroud of Turin), it would be rather interesting given that Jesus was perfect in all ways. What does perfect DNA look like?

I'll be your friend! :eek: Actually, I am consistently amazed by the intricacies that I learn about God's Word, and how every day of research brings new discoveries that just confirm what He says. I've had a lot of those "WOW, that's fascinating!" discoveries in my studies. Feel free to lay any of your "screwball" theories on me any day of the week. I actually have a question for you or anyone who can answer this; it's a "screwball theory" of my own. Does anyone know if, when animals give birth, they experience pain? I don't have a lot of experience with animals (grew up in the city and didn't have any pets) so I've never known. I'm not talking about whether they exert themselves, but whether they exhibit actual signs of pain.

Victoriana, as usual you blow me away. That is a fascinating study. I love the mysteries that the Bible contains. I'll be studying this one more :eek:

Sunta, I know you've hinted at this issue before and I've said this before but I believe it bears saying it again: I am very sorry for the pain you feel every day.

That's a very good question. What is a right? I think people have a right to associate with whomever they want and they have the right to enter into a covenant or an agreement with that person that is akin to what people consider marriage. And I'm not sure I believe the government should even be involved. I don't believe that people have the right to expect (or demand) the government to bless or approve of their personal agreement, just like they don't have a right to expect (or demand) that other individuals bless or approve of that agreement. If the government chooses to bestow certain legal or even economic benefits to the agreement between two people, then I guess that's a decision that's up to the people in power and their reasoning behind the legal protections or entanglements therein. For example, I believe it is wrong that a person can confess a murder to their spouse and the spouse can't testify to that because of "spousal privilege". And yet that is the way the law has evolved. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it holds marriage in higher esteem than lawful activity, which I don't agree with. I hope that answered your question!

Thank you for your explanation. I have a question, and it's not an attack <sigh, I'm tired of saying that>. Do you believe that the Bible was written by men who were trying to document history, or do you believe it was inspired by God. How does 2 Timothy 3:16 which starts with "All Scripture is God-breathed" fit with your beliefs? If you do believe all Scripture was inspired by God, and assuming you believe God is omnicient, didn't He know how big the world was before man did? One last thing -- there are various accounts in cultures other than Jewish (and had no contact with Judiasm or Christianity), about a global flood (Austrailian aboriginal, Native American, etc.). Do you believe that these were all local floods? Did they all happen at the same time or do you think they happened at different times?

I feel like I have to preface everything I say with you: this is not an attack. I'm curious. Who forbade them? Was it a condition of entry into the country or was it their church? What would happen if a Jew came to them asking about Christianity? Could they talk about it then?

Uncalled for, judgmental, closed-minded, and self-serving. Those are specifically your words. I am honestly trying to understand how someone arrives at a belief in the Bible that is not literal. I thought lisah and I was doing just fine discussing it, and then I get called judgmental, closed-minded, and self-serving. I never judged her; I asked her how she arrived at her reasoning. I am not closed-minded or I wouldn't have asked. And I can't possibly imagine how opening oneself up to criticism is self-serving.

Sorry you misunderstood. From what I saw, everyone participating was in the wrong. I believe I did say that, even though I didn't mention anyone's name personally.

This is what I am saying is uncalled for. I don't "jump off", I'm not judgmental, closed minded, or self-serving. And I'm done. I'm not getting dragged into another bar-room brawl. I'll be back when everyone can simmer down a bit and the attacks stop.

Its being a choice doesn't make it a CIVIL right, which is what I was talking about. As to denying rights, I'm don't know that marriage is a right. You have a right to engage in whatever personal acts you want to engage in (again, that don't hurt others), but you don't have a right to have the government bless, acknowledge, or sanctify your actions. I'm really leaning more towards not believing the government should be involved in marriage at all. So there you have it!

Yes, I do. And I know what they go through. And they know how I feel.

So now BJean attacks. You know, I have a family to feed (literally; I just made them a late lunch), I homeschool my kids, and I run several businesses. I am not averse to answering questions and participating, JUST NOT RIGHT NOW!!!!! I called it "salad bar" faith because I couldn't think of a better term to classify what took me a paragraph in another thread to define. I'm a very even-keeled person, but you're out of line on this one.

Hurtful, hateful behavior is rarely enjoyable for me. As a non-participant, it was really vicious. I have a frown on my face as I'm typing this, because it really was hurtful all around. I think I explained this in my post last night. In a nutshell, if Jesus considered Old Testament history to be historically accurate, it makes sense that I should too if I profess to follow Him. If, on the other hand, He had given even a hint of its being allegorical, I would have a different opinion. So instead of global flood you believe local flood? That makes sense; thank you. I don't agree because I think the Bible is pretty specific about it (and Jesus cited it), but if you believe there was definitely a flood of some sort it make a bit more sense to me.

I'm trying to understand. I'm not trying to attack. I sincerely don't understand, for want of a better term, salad-bar Christianity. But if there's a valid reason for it, I'd like to. You've been the only one so far who's willing to discuss it. I suspect it's because you're secure in your beliefs and are willing to defend them. But if anyone else would like to discuss it as well, I'd be happy to engage more than one person. But later. I have to get some things done around the house now.

Well, I guess there's a first time for everything! <g, r & d>

Do you think when Jesus held up the bread, He was holding up a piece of his body? Or that it changed into His physical body as He held it up? Because if it didn't, then He didn't mean that literally the bread was His body, because it wasn't literally His body. So if when He did it He wasn't speaking literally about a hunk of flesh, it doesn't logically translate that He would expect us to speak literally about a hunk of flesh. What is the point of the story if it's not true? Someone commented somewhere else (maybe on this thread, maybe not) that they didn't believe Noah's ark actually happened, but it was a beautiful story and they learned a lot from it. It took me a few days to process, but then it hit me. Noah's ark is NOT a beautiful story. It's a story of death and destruction, of God's wrath, and of vile sin. It just seems to me that if you wanted to tell a nice story about how God hates sin and people can choose to be saved from it or not, you wouldn't make up a story like this, and with as much detail as this. Cubits and all.

Well, I have to assume you're talking about Ron here. And I certainly didn't see a lot of backing off from the, for want of a better term, anti-Ron contingent here. I saw a lot of attacking and attacking back. And when someone apologizes for participating in the barroom brawl, does it really make sense to keep throwing punches? What I saw last night was akin to the popular kids ganging up on the fat kid in elementary school. Everyone who participated should be ashamed of themselves. And I mean everyone. You talk about someone "nagging you to convert". You have the unique opportunity, in this forum, to escape the nagging. They can't nag (or what they're saying can't be construed as nagging) if you're not in the room. I am actually quite surprised that this whole thread hasn't been locked because of the blatant personal attacks that are going on. Not that I ever thought locking a thread could be successful when it could just be opened up again in a new thread, but I've seen threads locked for less.

Can you give me some examples of things you don't take literally and what your reasoning is? And I don't mean Levitical law, which people are so fond of quoting. I mean something that the Bible says happened that you don't believe happened, or something that Jesus says we should do or not do that you don't agree with? Do you believe the account of Noah's ark? Thanks for answering. I have to tell you, I feel the same way about His mercy and getting stuff wrong. I know there's stuff I've gotten wrong -- I have also changed my opinions on some things over the course of my life because of what the Bible says. So maybe there's more stuff further down the road for me to change about, too.

AMEN! AND AMEN AND AMEN! I know the Mormons knocking on my door are there to convert me. I am certainly not rude to them, I don't slam the door in their face, I don't scream obscenities at them or call others in my family to come to the door and help me gang up on them. If I don't have time, I politely tell them that. If I do, I engage in a polite and fact-filled discussion with them.

So enlighten me. How do KKK members and Neo-Nazi members vote? Because it seems to me that they'd vote for things like racial and religious segregation (which I wouldn't vote for).