gadgetlady

Why would you assume that? When did I say I'd never seen babies born with any of those complications or never seen or worked with abused children? For that matter, when were we discussing children with FAS or abused children? We were discussing children in 3rd world countries who were starving.

Sorry. I don't believe that because some children suffer, it's OK to brutally slaughter others.

See that, to me, is utterly ridiculous. It's your body; you should have had the right to be sterilized if you wanted to. I think it's criminal that no one would do that for you. Let me ask you a question, green. Did you agonize over your decision to abort? Was it a harrowing experience for you (other than the painful part of it that you've described on this board)? Or did you just know you didn't want to be pregnant and once you found out you were, made the decision to abort and did it?

There is a HUGE difference between birth control and abortion. Birth control is pregnancy prevention. Abortion stops a beating heart. As far as I'm concerned, use birth control to your heart's content; once you conceive a child, there's another life involved. I know it offends your feminist sensibilities, but there really is no parallel for men on this issue. Men will never have the opportunity to carry children within their bodies. It's not discrimination against women. It's just the way things are.

Well, you have to wonder why someone who is 100% in favor of abortion, to the point that they actually PERFORM them, goes the other way. These people have very interesting things to say and are worth hearing. There's a difference between having a personal opinion on the issue, an opinion that may change or evolve over time, and actually being in the trenches. The fact that these people who were leaders in the fight for the legalization of abortion and performed thousands and thousands of abortions now understand abortion to be the deliberate taking of a human life speaks volumes. They didn't just retire, just stop performing abortions; they changed from believing abortion is a right to believing and understanding abortion takes a human life.

If you believe, as the abortion industry would like you to, that what the mother is carrying is not a child but just an undeveloped blob of indistinguishable tissue, it would actually be quite easy to do precisely what this woman did.

You know, marjon, I was thinking this morning about how you've objected to my use of the term "abortionist" throughout this thread, and how I just figured out recently that you didn't realize I meant "person who performs abortions" -- which may have caused you to miss the entire point of some of my early posts. I referenced, several times, "former abortionists". I meant, literally, people who used to perform abortions and are now pro-life. One of the most famous is Bernard Nathanson, who was one of the founders of NARAL (now the National Abortion Rights Action League) and who, as an athiest, came to the position that abortion is the taking of a human life. If you have any interest in the stories of these men and women who used to provide abortions, you can go to: Former abortionists expose abortion! Meet the Abortion Providers Excerpts from the Abortion Quotes Website (ChooseBirth.com) I realize these are pro-life sites, but of course that's to be expected with their testimonies. It doesn't make their quotes less accurate or their stories less compelling. Several of them have also written books. I have heard some of these former abortionists speak in person; they have amazing things to say.

The saline procedure is just awful. It basically burns the baby from the inside out, often burning off parts of the skin. The mother feels the thrashing of the baby as he or she is dying, and then delivers a dead baby (usually; sometimes the baby survives). As to the reason for the abortion, that's not an uncommon reason. A lot of people assume all abortions are done because of failed birth-control, but that's just not the case. I know a woman who aborted because she and her husband had a long-awaited trip to Hawaii planned and she wanted to look good in a bathing suit. She figured she could just get pregnant again later.

Sheesh -- I hate this edit function. I meant to add "the companion case to Roe v. Wade". Late-term abortions, in other words up until 9 months of pregnancy, have been legal since Roe v. Wade was decided.

That's why they call him "Tiller the Killer". Doe v. Bolton, the companion case, guaranteed abortion through all 9 month of pregnancy for the reason of "health of the mother", with health being defined to include mental health in the determination of one physician. That one physician can be the abortionist. Since, as we all know, "mental health" can be very loosely defined and would likely be very loosely defined by the guy making money off the abortion, there is in essence no prohibition on late-term abortion (with the exception, now, of this specific procedure -- which was specifically instituted to avoid the "complication" of live birth).

There is a definite dichotomy in the law. And really, it doesn't make any sense. The only time the baby's life has value is when the mother wants the baby. Which is ridiculous, really. Since when do we base the value of life on how others feel about us?

My apologies for the offense. I wasn't trying to tell anyone how to raise their kids and I didn't intend to single anyone out. I was feeling attacked on many levels. I agree that all of this is a personal choice.

That totally sucks. I would dispute your charges on your cc if it hasn't been that long. If you never used it and it broke 4 days after you did, likely the cc company would stand by you.

I agree with you on that. And so does the other 2/5 of that black person we talked about.

Firstly, we could get into a discussion about constitutional issues, but no where in the constitution is "the right to privacy and reproductive choice." Secondly, Roe v. Wade and it's companion decision, Doe v. Bolton, didn't establish abortion "in the context of an early abortion", but rather abortion throughout the entire 9 months of pregnancy for absolutely any reason at all. It seems the baby's interests are at stake only when the mother wishes them to be so. That, in itself, is wholly inconsistent with the constitution. We do not have the right to life only when others want us.

So if a pregnant woman is killed on the freeway by a drunk driver, the drunk driver is held accountable for two deaths. If she was on the freeway driving to an abortion clinic . . . it seems he should only be held accountable for one, because she intended to kill the other in the first place.

And you're held liable for two murders. Go figure.

This subject has come up before on this board and some people have had similar experiences, mostly with motor issues. I've had mine for 2 years with no problems whatsoever, using it every day. My mom has one, too, same amount of time, no problems either. Did you try contacting the company for a replacement? It may still be under warranty.

So then none of the other criteria you mentioned is applicable? Having thoughts, having a favorite color or movie, the ability to make moral judgments? The only question is do they breathe and have a heart beat? THAT determines life?

Then an infant is not alive.

Huh???????????

I know a lot of "pro-life sorts" and none of them believes they have the right to make the rules for everyone. If they did, they would be making the rules for everyone, which they clearly are not. They have the right to, and they do, demonstrate, try to change minds, try to influence politicians, educate people, vote their beliefs, and assist women who are facing an unplanned pregnancy. But I can't imagine how you are envisioning the manifestation of their "right to decide what everybody has to do". I've been pro-life since high school, when I first heard of abortion (perhaps I had heard of it before, but I don't remember it). It was a no-brainer; the unborn baby is simply a younger version of the infant everyone can't wait to hold and coo at. I became an activist that very day. If I could have changed the law then, I would have. If you show a child a developing baby in utero, or an aborted baby in a glass jar, the child knows instinctively what it is -- a smaller version of himself. It is only we adults who screw it up.

I've never made juice with it, but I think when I bought it it came with a juicer attachment (?). I love it and use it every day. Wouldn't trade it for anything else.

Additionally, the baby has a heart beat before most women know they're pregnant.

I don't have the right to make the rules. If I did, abortion would be illegal. We depend on judges to decide these things, and I believe in light of the factual knowledge we have about life in utero, they will eventually come down on the side of life. The more we know about the unborn, the more their humanity becomes clear. It is only a matter of time. In the interim, the more we educate people about what really is going on in the womb, the more people will choose, of their own accord and based on the vast amount of information available, to choose life.