gadgetlady

Personally, I find it very sad when young girls get pregnant at a young age -- regardless of who they are. And I will --and have -- always supported their making the right decision. It is wrong to judge them.

Don't put words in my mouth, especially when they're not accurate. I do not believe the government should make the decision as to when someone should be killed. I believe it is an individual decision, and if a person wants to kill themselves they and they alone should decide -- not their mother or their father, and certainly not the government.

And not the mother's.

Wait, are you saying Bristol has gotten a free ride in the media, and the Palin family is more wealthy than the Spears family? :tt2: I don't speak for everyone, of course, but I don't consider either of them trash. I think they both made the right decision in a difficult circumstance. And I don't think either of them should be bashed.

Everyone in life endures pain. I guess we should kill everyone to spare them?

The big question is who decides who to euthanize? Who decides when someone's quality of life is bad enough that they shouldn't be alive? I seem to remember a time in history when people were killed en masse because someone else decided their life wasn't worth living . . .

She's a TEENAGER, for heaven's sake! How many times did you change your opinion every DAY when you were a teenager? As to her now being strong for abstinence, perhaps it's 20/20 hindsight that's driving her to that opinion. Now that she fully understands how difficult a chain-reaction sexual activity can begin, she perhaps wishes she had made better choices. Now before all of you start slamming me, do I believe all teens can accomplish abstinence? No, of course not. And I am a big believer in birth control. But I also believe we encourage sexual activity way too much by telling teens they are incapable of abstinence.

BTW, rodriguezequal, I love your ticker. Your baby's organs, ears, eyes, arms, and legs are beginning to form. What a miracle.

I have to say, I don't recall her exact words when she talked about it the first time. Did she say she never considered it? Did she say it never crossed her mind? Did she say it wasn't an option for her? Did she say it was out of the question? I tried to look up the exact quote and couldn't find it. There is a difference between a fleeting thought and something that you give consideration.

It's never right for the baby. The baby has no choice in the matter. All I was saying is that just because she had an impulse doesn't grant validity to the impulse.

Ahhh, but our first impulse in any trying situation may not be the right one. The impulse to drive away when you hit someone with your car. The impulse to freeze when you're in a panic situation. The impulse to blurt out your knee-jerk reaction to something you don't agree with. The impulse to hit someone who makes you angry. The impulse to take something from someone else because you need it. We shouldn't kill people because they may (or even will) have a difficult life. I go back to that UCLA study years ago where the majority of people said they'd abort if their unborn baby was found to have the "fat gene". Where would all of us be right now if our parents had aborted because they found out we might be fat later in life?

That is awesome news. Take care of your precious cargo. I don't have time right now to go back through the thread and, as I'm sure I've said before, my memory SUCKS (especially with people I've never met IRL), but don't you have some physical concerns about carrying a baby again? Are you getting good medical care? I'll be praying for you and your family.

I don't really consider this to be a gray area. If someone asked if I had ever considered suicide, I would say no. A thought entering my head and then being dismissed isn't "consideration" in my view. I don't think this is a distortion of the truth, and I'm pretty much a brutally honest person. I see your point as well -- I just disagree on the definition of the word and how it applies / how people perceive it.

That was an AWESOME link, pattygreen! I couldn't open the other one (blocked by my firewall), but this one was great. I skimmed it the first time with a "ho hum" attitude, but when I went back and really read it, it is indeed profound. Thank you for posting it.

We don't know the route by which her story became public. Maybe she had nothing to do with it. Maybe someone else revealed it on her behalf, and a news outlet picked up on it. Maybe she allowed it to happen because she thought her story might also help someone else struggling with the same pain. Maybe the attention given to her unborn child, attention that anonymous child had never gotten before, allowed her a modicum of comfort. We don't know, and I don't presume to judge her. I heard an incredible story today, which the person telling presented as true. I don't remember the name of the teller, but it went something like this: a man gets on a subway, and a father with kids gets on as well. The kids are making a lot of noise and disturbing everyone, but the father doesn't seem to notice. He is sitting in his seat, eyes closed, head back, seemingly uncaring. People around him are annoyed by the behavior of the children. Finally, the man suggests to the father that he get his children under control. He "awakens" out of his trance, surveys the situation, and says thoughtfully, "Yeah, I guess they are bothering some people." The man is outraged that he is so uncaring, until the father says, "We just came from the hospital. Their mother died today. I guess I don't know how to deal with it and they don't either, so they're just acting in a way to forget the pain." We don't always know why people do what they do.

It was a joke. The whole thing revolves around the word "consider", so I guess what I'm trying to say is it's all about what you consider the word "consider" to mean. For example, for want of a better analogy, have I ever "considered" suicide? Well, that's a tricky question. Has the fleeting thought every crossed my mind? Sure it has, and likely everyone else as well. Something along the lines of, "Hmmm. I wonder what would happen if I didn't hit the brakes right now." Does that mean I've considered suicide? I would say no, because it's never been a serious option. Giving something consideration is different from having a fleeting thought that you quickly dismiss. I suppose the same could be said of a lot of people about having an affair, or, for that matter, also having an abortion. It's all in how you define "consider." So again, I don't see any inconsistency in what she's said. But if you define "consider" in the same vein as "fleeting thought", then yes, I can see why you would consider what she said to be a lie.

I think there's a difference between a short, fleeting thought about having an abortion (which is as she describes what happened), and actually giving it serious consideration. I don't see a broad "she didn't consider abortion" statement and her description of her thought process as mutually exclusive. But if you choose to believe her a liar, that's what you'll believe. Speaking of liars, I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is. :thumbup:

I don't believe she had an agenda other than her own personal healing. That she took an unusual route to that healing is her choice, isn't it? To presume it was a pro-life "stunt" belittles her pain.

The "ignorant" comment was BJean's: "Only after the first abortion did she ignorantly choose to have unprotected sex" As to her actions, I don't see them as silly at all. She is trying desperately to get closure, and her husband loves her and supports her. Many years ago, I had a friend who had a miscarriage. She was devastated. She decided to have a memorial service at her church, and the congregation was invited to mourn with her. You would not have believed the number of mothers there, mourning themselves over babies they had lost (miscarried and/or aborted) from years and years past. The pain in that room was both audible and palpable. Losing a child can be a very painful thing, regardless of whether it is a "natural" loss (miscarriage) or an "intended" one (abortion). Sometimes it takes these mothers some time -- even decades -- to process the pain, but the pain is nevertheless very real. And what makes it even worse is people denigrate them, tell them to "just get over it", tell them they're ridiculous for feeling pain, and so forth. Very few people honor their intense feelings, and so they bury these feelings further and fall into further pain. We all need different procedures to process our grief. Thankfully, this mother had the support of her loved ones. She is a real person and her grief is real, and I don't think she should be belittled for what she feels.

Interesting trending in abortion support here: Pew Research Center: Public Takes Conservative Turn on Gun Control, Abortion

I don't know how I missed these comments before, but I am surprised and saddened at the judgment and lack of compassion. Surely you must know that some mothers, perhaps many, suffer greatly after abortion? Many of them have even been on this thread in the past, expressing their dismay at their earlier "choice". I'm not saying all suffer, but certainly many do and their pain is great. To dismiss someone's experiences and their very real pain by calling them ignorant? Very sad.

This seems like a really odd headline but it's actually a really sweet story of a husband supporting his wife, and of healing after a lifetime of pain: FOXNews.com - California Man Symbolically 'Adopts' Wife's Two Aborted Fetuses - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

I was interested to hear Sarah Palin's comments at a recent speech, discussing when she found out her unborn son was disabled: “There just for a fleeting moment I thought, I knew, nobody knows me here. Nobody would ever know. I thought, wow, it is easy. It could be easy to think maybe of trying to change the circumstances. No one would know. No one would ever know," she said. Ultimately, she told the audience it was time to "walk the walk" concerning her pro-life views. It's a refreshing bit of honesty and reality from a politician.

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com Great interview and discussion of abortion here.

But you said in a perfect world it'd be best to preserve the life of both mother and baby. So if the world were perfect and both could survive, aren't you then saying that because one (the baby) has to die, that's imperfect? And if imperfect, isn't there something wrong with it? They're Guttmacher Institute (Planned Parenthood) statistics. And I would think if people were going to lie, they'd lie in favor of saying it was a health issue (for mother or baby) or incest or rape -- just to assuage their conscience. Yes, surveys can easily be skewed, especially if the questions aren't worded properly (interestingly, the poll at the top of this thread is a prime example of a poorly worded question and poorly worded answer-options). But these statistics are pretty consistent throughout all studies, regardless of which side sponsored the study.