gadgetlady

What's a miralce? Oh -- do you mean miracle? Oh, it's OK. I figured it out.

What did I miss? I haven't read anything Ron says that's disrespectful of women.

I agree with Ron. I've said the same thing on other threads, too. While many might consider his method abrasive and have said as much, they have yet also mocked his beliefs. It seems that it is perfectly acceptable to mock Christianity, but nothing else. Taking RON out of the equation and how you all feel about him personally, that fact remains.

I disagree. There is a reason I asked the question WITHIN this thread, rather than starting another thread. I think the reason people are unwilling to answer is because they're more comfortable attacking others than they are defending or even explaining their own beliefs. Edited to add: There are some on this thread that HAVE explained their own beliefs. But none of those was a professed Christian who also didn't believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

LOL! You're funny, leatha. I love your excitement about all things of God . Jesus definitely did speak in parables and Scripture does need to be taken into context to understand it. There are so many people that say the Bible contradicts itself, but then when I ask for an example their examples really never DO contradict each other -- they just took them out of context or really didn't understand what was being said. Other than TOM, who won't talk about it because it's "personal", I have yet to have anyone else respond in the affirmative, that they believe Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified and resurrected on the third day, and that they also don't take the Bible literally. Is there no one else with this belief system who's willing to admit it and talk about it?

Is it your position that nothing in life is defined and everything is up for interpretation? Because that's what it sounds like. In my experience, in all disciplines, not just religion, some things are ambiguous and some things are perfectly clear. But I guess it just depends on what your definition of "is" is.

I can't speak for Ron and I think he's gone right now, but I for one learned a long time ago that it is not for me to judge and I certainly don't know whether someone is going to hell or not. I only know about me. I believe that we all get some of our theology wrong, and that we are sinners and forgiven through the blood of Christ (if we accept that forgiveness). So if someone believes that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins on the cross yet gets some of their other theology wrong, or if someone doesn't interpret the Bible the same way I do, while I may believe they are wrong that doesn't mean I believe they are going to hell. I don't have the right or the ability to damn someone to hell, and I certainly am not the one who makes the rules. I know Ron doesn't think he is either.

Oh - sorry I misunderstood. But I think there were others who said they didn't think it was literal. I don't remember who now and it's difficult to wade through all of the pages of this thread. Do you think it's literal?

I don't recall Ron ever saying people had to worship his way. In fact, I remember him telling someone that they had the right to believe whatever they want to believe.

TOM is the only one who addressed the question, but he did not answer it. He said it was personal.

Do you believe the Bible is literal? I think I remember that you don't from other posts, but sometimes I get all my people confused.

Wait, what? You have a problem with Ron quoting the Bible? :faint: Maybe that's the whole problem you and everyone else have with Ron? That he shouldn't have the audacity to quote the Bible, a holy book he believes in? Please, please tell me I'm wrong.

:cry So I still don't have anyone who will answer. I see a lot of people attacking Ron for saying what he believes and yet they won't say what they believe. Makes me wonder if they're afraid of the tables being reversed. BTW, you're not alone in not living up to your belief system. Romans 3:23.

Oh, gosh, I think I need to clarify again. There are so many posts flying back and forth I don't think anyone is reading carefully. The question was not for everyone on the board, but for those who do NOT believe the Bible is literal and yet still call themselves Christians.

Thank you, Neal. I have no intention of flaming you, BTW. I just want to understand. You don't believe in the Bible literally, but you do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day. Why do you believe that? Again, I'm not being snide. I really do want to understand the reasoning.

Oh -- I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as he objected to the practice because of the traditional history of Judiasm. I will let Ron speak for himself on this one, but I really don't think he believes women are substandard or inferior. (In case you hadn't guessed, I don't think they are, either ).

I never heard you claim to be a Christian. The question was specifically asked of Christians, none of whom has yet responded (even though you say it's crap, still none has responded). I would have expected, based on your earlier posts where you specifically talked about being Jewish, that you would respond with a "no". Thank you for all of the languages, though! I wasn't attacking you.

TruBlueSue, why would you assume Ron thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant? I don't see anywhere where he's said that, much less implied it. It seems a bit presumptous and superior to say that, if not precisely what you accuse hime of - caustic. Do you have anything to back up your claims?

Well, it appears that Ron is no longer responding to attacks, and I commend him for his restraint. Can we take this thread back to yesterday? I asked a question of people who call themselves Christ-followers (both Catholic and Protestant) but don't take the Bible literally. No one answered me except TOM, who told me he wouldn't answer because it was a personal question (which I find interesting because there are lots of other personal questions that he and others answer). So will anyone else answer? Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, and that He was resurrected on the third day?

I got my period just before surgery and thankfully someone on this board advised not to wear a tampon. It would have been difficult to remove. I was allowed to wear my own pad but not my own underwear (mesh panties it is!). It's really not that big a deal. Remember, you're dealing with medical professionals and this is just a fact of life. I'm sure they have much more disgusting things to deal with on a daily basis. After all, doing surgeries every day means they see blood every day, too!

Someone wayyyy back asked about why non-Jews studied Judiasm. I don't remember the exact question or issue that was addressed, but I wanted to mention something out of an article I was just reading tonight. The article addressed how God refers to Himself as Father to the orphans and Defender of the widows, and how He calls us to be advocates for them as well. I assume most if not all of you have heard of this (if you need references please lmk). Well, the article goes on to point out that the Hebrew word for widow, almanah, refers not only to a woman whose husband dies, but also a woman who is left without a provider for any reason. In the New Testament Greek the word for widow, cheras, refers to a woman who has lost her husband in any way, be it death, divorce, desertion, or imprisionment. So when God calls us to care for widows, he is including those who are divorced or abandoned, really anyone who is in the state of lonliness, abandonment, or helplessness, not just women who have lost their husbands to death. When you go back and study the culture and the language in which the text was written, new things are constantly opened up for you. This is precisely the reason non-Jews turn to Jewish culture and language to better understand Scripture. I hope that helps whoever asked or wondered about it!

I'm not screaming. But you didn't answer the question. I did not ask what FORM Jesus took when He was resurrected. I'm asking if you (and others) believe that He was the Son of God and if He was, indeed, resurrected after His crucifixion. It seems to me to be a pretty straightforward question.

You are absolutely right, Leatha. We all come to Him like children, and it is only through the influence of the Holy Spirit, prayer, meditation, and the reading of His Word that we come to a fuller understanding. We will never have complete understanding, but if we are not willing to learn and we do not endeavor to grow in our faith, what kind of faith do we have? 1 Corinthians 13:11 says When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. When we're young (or young in Christ), we think we know everything. It is only when we grow up that we realize we knew practically nothing. Last night my husband and I were doing a Bible study with our kids (ages 6 and 9). We were reading Psalms 22 (all of it, but I stopped to comment on Psalms 22:15-18: My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.). We've been having discussions of Old Testament prophesy lately, so I said to my children, "What does this sound like?" The younger one responded, "Jesus on the cross." We then discussed the "they pierced my hands and feet" verse in the context of the time when it was written, when crucifixion was unheard of. My older daughter was quiet this whole time, and finally she said, "Mom, that can't be prophesy." "Why not?" I asked. "Because I've read that before and I never thought it was prophesy then." Ahhh, out of the mouths of babes. Because I didn't realize what it was then, it can't be true now. As children and as adults, how universal our closed-mindedness is. Personally, I have learned the most in my life when I was challenged by others. That's Biblical, too: Proverbs 27:16 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Oops, I think you misunderstood, Ron. I was responding to wavydaby, who said her Bible was Catholic.

I don't know if you're talking to me or Ron, but I prefer the NIV -- although I prefer the word "translation", not "version". I never liked Shakespeare in high school and it was because the language is, to me, difficult to follow. When I started reading the NIV I felt like I was able to finally understand what was being said. That is not the case for others who have no problem with King James or New King James (or Shakespeare, for that matter). That being said, I don't think you'll find any disagreements between the translations, and certainly not on issues of major doctrine. Being Catholic, I'm sure "your" Bible says that Jesus was the Son of God and He was crucified and resurrected on the third day (I don't know of any Bibles that don't). Do you believe that to be literal or figurative?