gadgetlady

I completely agree with your reasoning here - and if my daughters decide to marry someone who isn't a virgin, or if they decide to become sexually active, they can then decide to get the vaccine. But for right now, there's no reason for them to have it at a young age when the vaccine is not well fleshed out.

:clap2: I remember in the not-so-distant past being warned that an ice age was coming. For heaven's sake, scientists can't even predict the weather through the weekend accurately! A relative gave everyone in our family a copy of Gore's dvd for Christmas; I sold ours and another relative's copy on ebay for more than they're worth :confused:

My daughters aren't getting it. I don't trust new vaccines and I don't expect them to be sexually active before they get married. If, however, they choose to do so after they leave the care of our home, they will be able to make their own decision about the vaccine. And before anyone jumps all over me about "you don't know what your kids are going to do when they're not with you", we homeschool and plan to do so through high school. We are a very open, honest family, and have had very frank, open communication about sex with our oldest daughter (the youngest is yet too young to discuss it). I don't foresee that changing.

Ohhhh. I hope Rush Limbaugh gets it.

That's not true. In this past election, Keith Ellison, a Muslim from Minnesota, was elected to Congress.

:omg: That is an incredible statement. Human history is full of rational people who were also devoutly religious. Some of the greatest logical minds the world has ever seen were devout followers of their faith. Aquinas, Newton, Pasteur, George Washington AND George Washington Carver, Copernicus, Pascal, Mendel, T.S. Eliot, Chaucer, C.S. Lewis, Bach, Handel, I could go on for ages. I'm utterly speechless at this claim.

:think That makes me so sad. I am sorry you didn't have anyone there to protect you. This is true. In cases of physical danger. But teaching your children about God doesn't place them in physical danger.

I homeschool my kids, and their intellectual capabilities as rational human beings are fully engaged. My kids can reason better in grammer school than most publicly-educated high schoolers.

Yes, Planned Parenthood lobbies. Yes, pro-life groups lobby. Yes, the mustard industy lobbies. I was addressing the question that was asked as to why ministers couldn't talk about politics from the pulpit. The answer given was that they're tax exempt, and my point was that there are other organizations that are tax-exempt that tell people how to vote every day.

As to Christianity and Paganism, read this: http://www.about-jesus.org/paganism.htm It's way too long for me to post it all here.

That is not necessarily true. People come to different faiths through strange paths, and not always based on where they were born or how they were raised. I just read a fascinating article about a man who had been part of the radical movement that ousted the Shah of Iran in the 1970's. Needless to say, he was a convinced and radical Muslim, committed to exterminating "infidels". But now he is a peaceful and peace-loving Christian. In the article, he said: The Qur’an itself says that the great prophet Mohammed (AD 570–632) was a sinner. Mohammed did not know whether he would go to Heaven or to Hell (Q.46:9). But even the Qur’an says that Jesus was perfect and holy and that He is living in Heaven (19:16–33). Many Muslims have come to the Lord Jesus, and this is one of the reasons.

LOL! Good question, leatha_g! I'm still catching up on posts from today and hadn't read yours. See my response just above

That was written to pacify a Muslim country so we could enter into a treaty with them. From http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=5 (which can be read for more detail if desired): This article may be read in two manners. It may, as its critics do, be concluded after the clause "Christian religion"; or it may be read in its entirety and concluded when the punctuation so indicates. But even if shortened and cut abruptly ("the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"), this is not an untrue statement since it is referring to the federal government. Recall that while the Founders themselves openly described America as a Christian nation (demonstrated in chapter 2 of Original Intent), they did include a constitutional prohibition against a federal establishment; religion was a matter left solely to the individual States. Therefore, if the article is read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian nation. Reading the clause of the treaty in its entirety also fails to weaken this fact. Article XI simply distinguished America from those historical strains of European Christianity which held an inherent hatred of Muslims; it simply assured the Muslims that the United States was not a Christian nation like those of previous centuries (with whose practices the Muslims were very familiar) and thus would not undertake a religious holy war against them. . . . It would also be absurd to suggest that President Adams (under whom the treaty was ratified in 1797) would have endorsed or assented to any provision which repudiated Christianity. In fact, while discussing the Barbary conflict with Jefferson, Adams declared: The policy of Christendom has made cowards of all their sailors before the standard of Mahomet. It would be heroical and glorious in us to restore courage to ours. 24 Furthermore, it was Adams who declared: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. 25 Adams’ own words confirm that he rejected any notion that America was less than a Christian nation.

I was responding to the question of why ministers aren't allowed to discuss politics from the pulpit, which had the answer of "because they're tax-exempt" -- and I was pointing out that that's not a valid answer, because there are other organizations that are tax-exempt who are allowed to tell people how to vote. So, no, I don't see a distinction. I also don't believe abortion is a right. I believe it's been decriminalized, but I don't think killing other people is a right. You're kidding, right? Do you know anything about the history and political activity of Planned Parenthood? Even their own website offers ways to get involved in politics! Their own website boasts an "Advocacy Fund" and "Legislative Agenda"! They are a HUGE LOBBY for abortion, in addition to being tax-exempt and the recipient of government funds.

Wow. Really? You think Dawkins' beliefs, whatever they may be, trump my beliefs FOR MY OWN CHILDREN??????? Who the hell decides what beliefs to teach them? "Society"? Popular vote? That's really scary.

That's not what Dawkins was talking about. He was talking about whether people should be allowed to teach their children "mainfest falsehoods", which for him is equivalent to teaching their children about God.

I have a different tack on faith vs. proof. I came to Jesus purely out of faith. I believed that He died to take the punishment for my sins, and when I accepted Him and what He had done for me, I fell on my knees and wept. And then I started to study the Bible. And I was astounded by what I found, by how it made sense, and by how prophesy of Jesus in the Old Testament was ridiculously obvious. I listened to accounts of things I had heard over and over again but had never "gotten", and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to what they were actually saying. I started studying Creation Science and was amazed at the evidence. So yes, I did come to Christ through faith. But that doesn't mean there's not evidence out there as well. 1 Corinthians 13:11 says When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. As we grow in Christ, we become more aware of how the world around us fits perfectly with His Word.

When my youngest daughter was about 5 years old, she and her sister were watching a cartoon about kids that can time travel. One of the cartoon kids was black and they time travelled back to the time of slavery in the US. He was treated as a runaway slave and couldn't get back to the time machine to return home. My 5YO didn't understand the whole thing so I sat her down and explained slavery to her, through my tears (I abhor violence and injustice). She looked at me and said, "Why did the black people have to be the slaves?" You see, she understood that workers were needed to work the land. She just didn't understand what the color of their skin had to do with it. I just received a book from Answers in Genesis entitled "One Blood: The Biblical Answer to Racism". On the back it says, "The Bible says in Acts 17:26 that God has 'made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.' So, is there really such a thing as 'the white race', or 'black race'? You will be astounded at the easy-to-understand scientific facts, and how they line up with the often-overlooked simplicity of God's Word." I'm looking forward to finding the time to read it.

Saying there are Christians who are skinheads and Neo-Nazis is so incredibly offensive to me. It is impossible to follow Christ and be a skinhead or a Neo-Nazi. It goes against everything that Jesus taught. If someone claims to be a Christian but does not even follow the basic tenants of Christianity, despite the fact that they call themselves a Christian, they are not. They may use quotes from the Bible in their speeches, but that does not make them Christians. They also use quotes from our Founding Fathers, who also were not skinheads or Neo-Nazis.

Ain't that the truth! Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton -- all scary to me!

One more point on who is more to be feared, or at least on why the right fears the left: From: www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71985-0.html, Richard Dawkins, a leading atheist and the author of the book The God Delusion, is quoted: “How much do we regard children as being the property of their parents? It's one thing to say people should be free to believe whatever they like, but should they be free to impose their beliefs on their children? Is there something to be said for society stepping in? What about bringing up children to believe manifest falsehoods?” Yeah, my beliefs aren't OK for me to teach to my children, but yours are? You have so much disdain for my faith that you believe I shouldn't be able to teach it to my children? Reason #602 on why I homeschool . . .

That's what made me want to investigate Creation Science all the more, and when I did I was very surprised by the level of scientific investigation and information available on the subject. People tend to dismiss based on lack of knowledge -- on both sides. Some Christians who are taught about creation because "God said it. I believe it. That settles it." don't know much about the science behind either theory, but they knee-jerk reject evolution simply because it's not what they have been taught. And many evolutionists dismiss creation science because they can't believe it could possibly be a reasonable or scientific theory. I believe in a full investigation of both.

One more thing that I just thought of. In addition to Planned Parenthood being a tax-exempt organization which is allowed to "preach" how one should vote, it also RECEIVES money from the government! Yes, our tax money goes to this tax-exempt, "non-profit" organization (which had a $63,000,000 in excess profit last year) which is allowed to then tell people how to vote, but our churches can't do that for fear of losing their tax-exempt status. It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world.

The only problem with that is that Jesus believed and spoke that the Old Testament was historical fact. He quoted Scripture often and without ambiguity. If you need references, I'd be happy to provide them.

How did I miss a thread on creation vs. evolution for a whole 1/2 a day???!!!??? You know, laurend, I miss our "fireside chats" about the subject. It was very intellectually challenging. We should start up again some day (when I have a little more time in my life).