ReadySteadyGo

What about this Beth? "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." The Constitution says in Amendment Fourteen: "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." What this means to me is the state, or the people in the state, doesn't have the authority to pick and choose who they give rights, or priviledges to.

You know, if it isn't listed in the constitution, how could anyone ban it in the constitution...for one certain group of people?

Meeee too! But there is a national proposition 8 protest on Saturday novemeber 15. I will be up at the courthouse in my little town holding my sign for about an hour. There have been many protest, but they really aren't getting much coverage.

Did you know that a pig's orgasm can last half an hour?!?

Thanks Beth.

This I do agree with you with. I can't think of a better way to say that...In this I agree with you? No that sounds stupid too, well you get what I mean. pgreen. That long post you sent to me, I don't need to be saved but thanks for trying. You really should get out more.

I disagree. I know that some people (not you dear) must be skimming my post to find something they may be able to make a point against. Noone seems to have read the several several times I have said. Keep the marriage in the church (whatev) but if the government is going to recognize a marriage then they should do so for everyone. Fine, if you want to believe that marriage is a not a right (and your wrong) then consider it a priviledge. If not, don't recognize marriage at all (governmentally speaking) I can't speak for everyone but that's how I feel. Honestly, I could care less about the church. It has never done anything for me. It is prejudice, Beth. I don't think you are throwing rocks at me, it's how you believe...I belive you are wrong. That's okay, but saying everyone but these people can do this, well...it's prejudice in my opinion. Doesn't make you a bad person. I also think it's a learned thing. Which is how, like I said, I have hope for the future. But I wish others, not you, would stop beating me over the head with their bible, it's giving me a headache. As for the word "marriage" I have said upteen times in this thread to make marriage seperate from the government then noone would care. Because the church would marry who they want. Government should recognize civil unions. Peroid. Federally. Count them. How many times have I said that? See, I am not fixated on the word marriage. Other people are and they are choosing to ignore anytime I say anything differently. Just as some straight people get their panties in a twist when you use the word marriage...so do some gay people. The only reason I want it to be called "marriage" is for the reasons I listed a long time ago, that Ms.FF only chose to pick and choose through Just like people pick and choose their verses in the bible, just like the people seem to pick and choose where the seperation of church and state should start. It is because if I get "married" in california it must be recognized in louisiana, or arkansas, or florida, if my partner was dying in the hospital they would have to let me in, if she dies I would still get her pensions. If they didn't at least I would have a law suit to help further the cause. Every year we get closer to equality and fairness. The thing is there are still two accepted forms of prejudice in this world...fat people and gay people. I happen to be both. Civil Unions are not recognized everywhere. Here in Louisiana there are no such things, so if I was civily unionized (hehe) in California, then as civil unions don't exist here, I would get nothing...as marriage is recognized here, I would. Either let the government get out of the marriage business or let marriage be for everyone. One way or the other. Time will only tell which one happens first. I understand that you don't mean anything negative to me personally. I appreciate that...but then you have to understand that I am a gay person. So it is really hard for me not to take offense, honestly. I am trying though. You have not offended me in this thread, though I highly disagree with you. This is more than a debate with me, but I think the subject should be up for debate. I'm glad it is. I think even with people who disagree I think it gets people thinking. It's the Bible throwers that offend me, the comparison to child molesters, beastility, and sister marrying that offends me. And using God to beat people down that offends EVERYONE. Your vote doesn't offend me. I just do not believe that it should be something we vote on, however. The majority is not always right. I can be patient though, give us five years and we will have you outnumbered. :laugh: Then we can win the vote, and you marriage nazis can complain. Of course I mean that in the sweetest way. Mostly kidding.

LJM- Ain't it the truth.

tapshoes and Ezma- two of my favorite people ever.

You really are a one trick pony.

No I am a little down, but I'm trying not to dwell on it. I'm really honestly fighting with myself. I know that if I eat right, with out drinking, eating good hard meat, I can only finish 3/4 of a chicken strip. But if I eat mash potatoes I can eat two bowls. If I take a bite of a biscuit I will be too full, if I eat a biscuit with a glass of milk, I can eat the whole thing. I'm doing...okay...but I need to do better. I realize what I'm doing and I've gotten so much better, but I still have a long way to go. Honestly, I had icecream all weekend. It's better than my worst times. When I would have two or three bowls, just one bowl, but I was doing so good. I got really stressed out and bought a 1/2 gallon of icecream and while I do just fine with it out of the house, I'm not so good with it in the house. Now that I've admitted that I can maybe throw it away when I get home. I also had bacon. In fact, it was a weekend of pain for my poor diet. That's why you guys didn't see me this weekend. :laugh: I feel just so ashamed, but that is why I started this thread, because I tend to hide things. Since I was little. I don't have to do that anymore, but old habits die hard, and anything that I hide I do end up eating a lot more than I would normally. So there it is. I'm still learning. I'm still trying. I need to do better. I really don't think I need a fill. I mean sometimes I can eat a whole sandwich, and maybe even some snap peas with it, (with out drinking) but sometimes I can only have one bite of a chicken strip and be full. What do you guys think. As long as I can stop the drinking then I think it will be better. It just was a bad week.

You tell Negative Nelly, that I know people that know people and she better be quiet.

If you go by your definitions, sweetie, A brother and a sister could have kids. They would be severely messed up, but genetically it's possible. So I would assume that you would think it was okay, if I follow the reasons you have put out that gays should not be considered to be allowed to marry. Sound silly, it's how I feel about most of your replies, no offense. I know you just don't understand. I can't make you understand. I think it was a silly question. I don't care if your tolerant or not, honestly, I probably would have ignored you and patty green on any other day and never even answered you original post in this forum. It just happened that you replied at a time that I was so heart broken, same thing for the other thread I replied in about homosexuality. I think voting against marriage is fine. Go ahead you guys. I personally disagree wholeheartedly. I have commented several times that the church could have the word marriage if they want and it could be up to the church who they "marry" or not. Call it civil unions for everyone. Whatever. it's a step in the right direction. You do know there are gay churches though, don't you? Churchs can be for the marrying, Goverment could be for the unions. In my state even Civil Unions aren't recognized. If I lived in a state that I could be considered married, I could have the rights of a married person even out of state. If civil unions for gay couples are recognized as a partnership in all the states like a marriage is now. Then that is fine with me, maybe not all gay couples, and as long as I am not denied any rights if I don't stay in the state we made our commitment in. I have talked already about the things I had to go through when I came out. How much words, like yours and pgreens though maybe well meaning, caused so much pain in my life. I knew who I was, but according to these people who chose to speak for God I was evil and against him. I'm not. Many people, especially in the south, can't deal with it. They kill themselves, turn to drug or alcohol, or get married and have kids- Just like you want them too and are completely miserable. They take the misery out on their wives whom they never want to touch and their kids. Maybe they get what they need in an outside relationship, which is dangerous. So instead of just being one miserable person, their our now many many miserable families. Or they used to go into the clergy, denying themselves sex and who they are until they do something unspeakable to an innocent. Not all, but some. Can you deny that? With all the cases in the catholic church? It's not the vote that bothers me. I do believe in fairness, and equality, but if you don't. That's okay, or maybe you do, and you just can't see "marriage" as a government related thing...I can't really either, which is, if you will read my post, I ask that everyone has civil unions. Seperate but equal doesn't work. History should have shown everyone that. The thing is, to deny rights to any group of people that have committed no crime is unconstitutional. I do know that tolerance and love are winning out against hate and bigotry...not only in this case, but in many other cases. So I have hope. You know, for the most part I haven't seen a whole lot of hate coming from you. I really haven't. I've just read a lot of strong opinion on something you don't understand. That's okay. You will probably never understand. Just know that when you, or anyone else, talk about what you believe to be God's stance on homosexuality, how it's unnatural, you could be killing someone right then. You have no idea what it is like. How could you? I forgive your attitude and your words, because you don't understand. You haven't had friends destroy themselves because they couldn't handle what society has taught them about themselves. You haven't watched someone try to "pray the gay away" and fail, and beat themselves up and cry. You weren't born like me. You didn't have reason to cry when Matthew Shephard was killed. I understand. This is more to me than a vote, or debate, about the definition of marriage. You will have to understand that is what I am so passionate about. Because I have seen and have experienced these things. I almost didn't make it because of the words that people spoke. I was almost destroyed. Words can be powerful powerful things, especially on an adolescent girl coming to terms with herself and why she couldn't giggle about the boys like her friends did. Then as she got older realizing what she was and doing her best to fight it. I don't want anyone else to go through that. It's miserable, and it almost destroyed me, and has destroyed many people before me. I accepted who I am, I love myself. Your words, or anyone else's do not hurt me now. I know them to be uneducated (not school wise, but in this situation) and most people don't have to empathy to understand what they are doing. So, Ms.FF, keep your ideas. I will fight against you. I promise as passionate as you, or PGreen think you might be on this issue, I am ten times your passion. You might have gay relatives, but I almost died. I have a lot more invested in acceptance than you do to deny it. I know "marriage" itself is sensitive, but I will offend even people I think are decent human beings like yourself or plain (because you both are I think) to get my point across that we are here, we are who we are, and we deserve the same things and rights as everyone else. It's not just the word marraige to me. It's not just a definiton to me. I'm sorry if you felt that I called you intolerant. Maybe you are, but that is something you will have to deal with. Maybe you aren't, but this marriage issue is just so important that you maybe come across that way. Either way, I hope that you do always stand up for what you believe in...whether your wrong or right...just remember you might not understand the issue as fully as you think you do. But stand up, be heard. If that is what you feel in your heart you have to do.

Sounds good shoes. I am doing okay. I guess it's time for a fill again.

Tap is awesome and knows that she can do this. *(((((Hug))))))*

You can have marriages in the church only. THat would be fine. But the government should accept all marriages or only recognize civil unions for everyone. Patty Green I could care less what you think God Ordained. Blah Blah the bible, Blah Blah. I wish people would stop speaking for God, I'm sure he finds it rude. I would if someone was talking about something they really knew nothing about using my Name. People do the whole seperation of church and state just like they do the bible. They pick and choose what verses in the bible they want to live by, and what they want to force others to live by, and ignore the others. People want seperation of church and state EXCEPT this issue or that issue. We are supposed to have SEPERATION. Complete. Ms. FF. I'm not going to respond to you. I can't be civil with someone who compares my life with a child molester or someone who would be with a horse, or a goat, or a duck for that matter. So, I will just tell you now, that I'm sorry I can't. I wish I had the time and the patience to show you, but I don't. So Ms. PGreen. Do you follow these laws? Do you think someone who doesn't is gonna "fail" along with the pro-choicers and the gays, and whatever else the bible thumpers are screaming about? In the same testament that the bible verse you love to throw around in leviticus? "If a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they punish him, then his father and mother shall take him before the elders of the city and declare, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and won't obey; he is a worthless drunkard." Then the men of the city shall stone him to death. In this way you shall put away this evil from among you, and all the young men of Israel will hear about what happened and will be afraid" Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (Look, they are supposed to kill their kids. KILL the rebellious teenagers! Or at least not let them get married. Being rebellious is a choice!) For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on Sabbath shall be put to death. Exodus 35:2 (Lots of people work on the weekend...Lets kill em...or at least not let them get married. Working on the weekend is a choice!!!) When the lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show no mercy. Deuteronomy 7: 1-2 (Yeah! Kill em. Who said they have a right to live there anyway? If we won't do the right thing and kill them all, we should at least not let them get married. Being in the country that WE want is a choice!!!) Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife. As Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in EVERYTHING. Ephesians 5:22-24 (Oh I get it now! How can gays get married? It's not written in a book who should submit to who! How confusing! They would have to have an equal relationship with communication and no orders. That will never do. I see the light now! Being a submissive wife is NOT a choice! Get off the internet all you married ladies and go ask your husband as meekly as possible to give you your opinion, then beg his permission to type it. Didn't want to submit to your husband. Shouldn't be allowed. Being a strong, opinionated woman is a choice!!!) Now, I don't want your acceptance. I want EVERYONE to have the same rights. Be they rebellious teenagers, countries we have invaded, People who work on the weekend, Wives of husbands, or the abominable gays. If anyone doesn't agree with my lifestyle, they have that right...see I would protect that one too. I would protect your right to argue with me. To live how you see fit no matter how much I think you are wrong. I don't agree with what you say but I'm glad you get to say it. But to try to hold someone down because you think they are immoral is unpatriotic, and oppressive. To take rights AWAY from any group of people is unconstitutional, and hopefully one day we will finally have that seperation of church and state.

Thank you Jaime, and OMG!!! A baby! Congrats, how did I miss that?!? Keep me updated. I'm excited for you.

MacMadame, maybe he was talking about the vote 8 years ago? I know this year it was a pretty close margin.

I just wanted to thank all the people who have posted who understand how important this issue, and these rights, are to people who are denied them. If you don't agree, this isn't a jab at you. I just have been touched by the of passion in the opposition of this suppression. Thank you.

I am stronger than my cravings; I can do this! I am stronger than my cravings; I can do this! I am stronger than my cravings; I can do this! it's gonna be a easy peasy weekend. Cause I am stronger than my cravings!!!

Okay. I'm trying to be patient...but come on. Your little "legal label" means this. finicial benefits for taxes, retirement, property ownership, inheritance, insurance rates, family and medical care, freaking car rentals, hospital visitation and the ability to make medical decisions for an incapacitated partner(very very very very important- If you are not considered immediate family you can be kept out of ICU when your partner of 20 years is dying), Adoption, child custody, sponsorship of a non-American partner, Surviver's rights to Social Security benefits, tax-free inheritance of a spouse's estate. Hey, Family discounts at national parks. An unmarried couple pays about 22 percent more for car insurance than a married one, (Doug Heller- Founder of Tax Payer and Consumer Rights.) Life insurance companies can fight against one partner's "insurable interest" for an "unmarried" couple. When one partner dies, Often they are stuck with huge tax bills for their partner's estate -- married couples inherit from each other tax-free -- and the surviver of a gay partnership is not entitled to get their partners Social Security or federal pensions. Then there is the simple thing of two people loving each other and wanting it to be official...just as official as yours. Plain- The end result in california as I heard it was 52- For prop 8 48- Against prop 8 Like a 400,000 vote difference. Am I wrong? Now in Florida it was about 60- 40. (I would also like to say that the tax free inheritance might be different state to state)

Wow, I had no idea. See now that old law seems ridiculous. Outdated. In louisiana we have old laws that outlaw any sex but missionary style, and we have a law saying you can't spit on the street. Of course, not enforced.

Plain and bbygrl I laughed out loud. I really did. I will have to compare two and tell you which one is better.

Let me add this then I promise to stop flooding this thread. Copy and pasted. Italics from constitution. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." In other words, no State has the right to ignore civil agreements reached in other States. So if a same-sex couple in Massachusetts, or California, gets married, no State has the right to ignore that marriage. In fact, all States are required to recognize that marriage, because it is a Civil matter. So, if I got married to my SO in a state that it was legal, they couldn't keep me out of the hospital room as she was dying if we happened to be in a state it was not. If not, they can. In many other states they do not recognize even civil unions. All states recognize a marriage. So if I am legally married, even in a state that doesn't think I should be, they can't keep me out. Plus. If the more progressive states allow marriage, then hopefully in the years to come the southern states will take the less (to them) extreme allowance of recognizing civil unions. This is my hope, but if there is no marriage in places like California, then there will be no civil unions in louisiana. I don't care about the word, I care about the rights. Some people do care about the word because they are very religious and want their marriage to be in the eyes of God. Gay doesn't mean Godless. So for them, I fight for it, and argue for it. For me, I demand the same rights that anyone else gets.

Ahhhh, Your the sweetest.