Hey Man

I acknowledge what you are you saying and you are right. But while she has done an amazing job and got to her goal weight - she will still have a handful of chips and she loves these: http://www.darefoods.com/resevoir_storage/products/pWqP2fxPdWEdkGUCVcDKGRWJ92O0sUBh5nOxkmnr.png They are probably what helped her get to her goal beyond the food she was eating regularly, because wasn't feeling deprived. She was 350 and is now 190. If one needs a crutch to help get them to their goal, I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as it's reasonable. If you don't need an Oreo every day for example to feel human while you eat healthy for the rest of the time - that's great. But even on regular diets they say it's not good to completely deprive yourself if you want to be successful, so why would it be beneficial after WLS?

Once you are over 2x the normal BMI like I was for 20 years, there is no easy way to lose weight. This is still really hard. My motivation to have surgery was health related. I went from being a healthy fat person to my health rapidly declining at a young age. I felt like I didn't have time to take chances on trying to lose weight once again without surgery. I don't have any negatives. food doesn't rule my life anymore which is pretty awesome. All this obsessing you are doing about food, is what I was like a few years ago. Once I got to the point my health was sliding, what I could eat was the least of my concerns. I wanted to be healthy. The improved health came first. Looking good in my new slutty clothes is just a side bonus. It is the thing that keeps me motivated because I can visibly see it every day and enjoy the benefits. Lower blood pressure while awesome doesn't pay off in the same way. No matter how you lose weight, surgery or not, it is all a head game. You have to be in the right mental space to make it happen. And I may not care about food once I see some results. But I know myself and I know that I will be more successful if I can enjoy the things I love on some level - even a very small one. Endlessly depriving yourself is something that even doctors will tell you is not good to do. It's better to have one or two cookies or whatever it is that you want and get it out of your system as opposed to always thinking about the cookie and depriving yourself. You just need to ensure that you stop at the 1 or 2 Cookies or the piece of pizza. I know that I can do that. But I think depriving myself will ultimately make me want it more.

You are completely overreacting to something that had nothing to do with you and wasn't directed at you or anyone else here.

Oh boy, you sure opened a can of worms with that statement! And I'll be the first to respond......I did not have surgery because it was the easy way. After 30+ years of failing to maintain any significant loss through traditional "dieting" I had surgery because it was the ONLY way. Easy is the last word I'd use to describe life after WLS. you are clearly not ready for the kind of commitment that WLS requires. Good luck. I am not saying you or anyone else here had surgery because they viewed as they easy way out. But the fact of the matter is that there are people who do. I don't know you can deny that. My comment is not an attack on you, so don't take it personally. --and I DO take your comment personally. Shame on you for being so callous, demeaning and hurtful! That's not true at all and there is no reason to take my comment personally because it wasn't directed at you.

Are you being sarcastic or do you mean that? Why do you feel I would do well with the surgery.No, I mean it. Just the idea that you're even thinking so much about it and asking questions means to me that you would be committed enough to it. I've seen people do more research buying a car than they did having WLS. And they struggle. That's what I am talking about -some people do more research when it comes to buying the latest cell phone over research and asking questions about WLS. When I went with my wife for her orientation - there was a bunch of other people there and once they learned about what is required, half of the people didn't return after we had a small break.

I need to correct a couple misconceptions here. I've only been on these boards for six months, but I can tell you that "looking good in a pair of jeans again" is not the driver for most of us. Do we enjoy it once we get there? You bet we do. But the jeans are the least of it. It's regaining our health, and regaining control over our eating, which had felt so out of control for so long. It's gaining perhaps for the first time a sense of self-respect and self-love. As for your assertion that surgery is "the easiest way to lose weight", I assure you, choosing surgery is anything but "easy". If you haven't gotten far eough in your research to know that, you've got more work to do. I never said it was actually the easy way out. Trust me - I have seen what my wife has going through and it wasn't easy. It's PERCEIVED as being the easy way out, which is why celebrities do it as opposed to working out and eating better, because they can afford surgery and skin surgery following that. And then wonder why they gain the weight back.

Oh boy, you sure opened a can of worms with that statement! And I'll be the first to respond......I did not have surgery because it was the easy way. After 30+ years of failing to maintain any significant loss through traditional "dieting" I had surgery because it was the ONLY way. Easy is the last word I'd use to describe life after WLS. you are clearly not ready for the kind of commitment that WLS requires. Good luck. I am not saying you or anyone else here had surgery because they viewed as they easy way out. But the fact of the matter is that there are people who do. I don't know you can deny that. My comment is not an attack on you, so don't take it personally.

Are you being sarcastic or do you mean that? Why do you feel I would do well with the surgery.

It has nothing to do with that. Surgery of this type is not some simple decision. You can't reverse it. I think one would be stupid not to ask the questions that I am asking or have the concerns that I have. Some people don't care about the negatives as long as they are thin and look good in a pair of jeans again. There is more to this just being thin, so I am not one of those people. Per my doctor - I am very healthy despite my weight and while it will catch up to me, then is more ways than one to lose weight. Clearly there are some people that do get the surgery, because they see it as the easiest way to lose weight. If I decide that this is not right for me - through my decision or the doctors decide for me, I will know that this is no longer an option for me and focus on another way to lose weight, which I am fine with - it will just take longer.

No worries - I have seen many a therapist. I do think some people here have an all or nothing position, where as others say that it doesn't have to be that way to be successful per my comments to Alex Brecher (in response to his comments). The thing is - the doctors/nutritionists may tell me that I am not ready to have the surgery, so we shall see. It may not even be a choice that I make. They can not allow me to have the surgery if they feel that I am not ready. Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App I can't see your response.

If I knew for sure that what you are experiencing - I would also experience. I wouldn't do it. It might take me forever, but I would lose the weight with calories in/calories out. The only reason why I am not doing that now is because my current weight is overwhelming and the idea of losing a pound or two a week isn't motivating. It helps and keeps you going when you can see the weight loss and it will be a long while before I see that.

No worries - I have seen many a therapist. I do think some people here have an all or nothing position, where as others say that it doesn't have to be that way to be successful per my comments to Alex Brecher (in response to his comments). The thing is - the doctors/nutritionists may tell me that I am not ready to have the surgery, so we shall see. It may not even be a choice that I make. They can not allow me to have the surgery if they feel that I am not ready.

So for example - you would never be able to have a little salad, two small chicken wings or a small chicken breast and a little rice for example? It's two chicken wings and you are done? I guess everyone is different, but even my wife is eating more than the amount of meat on two chicken wings with her bypass and she is doing incredible with losing weight. She will have a piece of salmon, some veggies and some fruit for desert.

Great post - thank you. I am glad that you see both sides and it's NOT all or nothing. And I said before - portion control is my main problem. So I am more the first type - I just want to be able to have a bit of the things that I love, feel satisfied and move on.

But is that because you feel that you can't eat in moderation and burn away the calories through exercise - like healthy people do? You feel a chicken wing or a slice of pizza will ruin everything that you worked towards? That you can only have a ton of bad food or no bad food - there is no happy medium?

The sleeve is a much less intense surgery than the GBP. Only your stomach is involved. There is no rerouting of the intestines, no removal of either the esophageal or pyloric sphincters. No postop malabsorption of nutrients. And with rare exception, no dumping. But yes, about 80% of the stomach is stapled off and removed. I find that a lot less scary than rerouting my intestines. I have to be honest - I think my wife is so desperate for me to have the surgery, because obviously she wants me to be healthy and live a long life with her, that she is somewhat sugar coating the sleeve so to speak. That instead of having 50 to 60 chicken wings (baked) at one siting, I will be able to have 5 to 10 just fine after a month or two, which is certainly a huge difference in calories, but allows me to still have the things I love on some level. I am probably spelling it wrong, but my wife told me that they also remove something called Greenlan? - something that sends messages to your brain that you are hungry. Not really sure about that.

Nobody has ever gotten to 440 pounds by overeating healthy food. I don't pretend to know you, or know how you eat, but if you have been eating gigantic portions of vegetables, fruit and lean Protein sources you would not be super morbidly obese. You just wouldn't be. Interestingly, you posted a video from Dr. Weiner who happens to be my surgeon. He does not even believe in calorie counting. He always wants you to be satisfied, and feels if you are truly hungry you should eat. He also advocates eating a minimum of a pound of vegetables daily, preferably 2 pounds. Prior to surgery I followed his diet for 6 weeks and lost 45 pounds. And I was never hungry. In fact, I often couldn't even finish all the food I brought with me to work. The reason I bring this up, is that if you are telling yourself you became obese from overeating healthy foods, you are not being honest with yourself. If you are not being honest with yourself about that, how honest are your going to be with yourself about eating bad foods in "moderation"? I myself started at 333, and I was not a binge eater, I was not an emotional eater, and I often ate healthy food. But I got obese because I ate large portions at every meal and most of what I ate was terrible. Sure, I'd have a chicken breast for dinner, but I'd also have a monster side of stuffing or Pasta. And maybe going out for a huge, decadent ice cream after. Did I fit the stereotype of the morbidly obese? Maybe not, but I ate crappy and got myself to this point. I do believe my body is a lot more sensitive to processed food than thin people and after many years of dieting I know I need a lower than normal calories amount to maintain my weight. But I also know I didn't get here by eating too many vegetables. I hope this is taken in the way it's intended. As someone who cares and is concerned. But I think you will be best served taking a hard, honest look at your behaviors. And be willing to accept major changes going forward. It's not that you can't ever eat a slice of pizza again. But you do need to completely change your relationship with food. This surgery is an amazing tool to help you do that if you are committed to it. Eating pasta isn't deemed to be unhealthy. Eating chicken breasts isn't deemed to be unhealthy. But when you eat enough pasta or rice at one sitting to feed a small village or eat 3 or 4 chicken breasts at one time - then yes, you are going to gain such weight, because you are doing the same thing with everything else you eat - be it lean beef or a pizza. I never said that I don't eat bad foods - I was just indicating that portion sizes and feeling full is my primary problem and that is absolutely the case, which even my doctor would tell you as I have made food plans for him per what I have eaten all week and he's pretty fine with most of it - just not the portions I am eating. That's interesting that Doctor Weiner is your doctor? So how do you feel about some of the myths that people believe here that he says are just not true. Like the stretching of stomach through carbonated drinks? Does it mean that you don't listen to him when it comes not calorie counting? Do you always eat when you are hungry? I appreciate your comments and advice. I think it's better to be concerned and worried - have a million questions as opposed to jumping into things and realizing that surgery wasn't the best option for you.

You saying that you are going to have 85 percent of your stomach removed scares the crap out of me. I must be getting the wrong information, because I have been told that the sleeve is a much less intense surgery ala what they take out of you than the bypass. I have a lot of thinking to do and decisions to make....

The answer is a healthy weight, but I don't think that one has to make such a choice. Yes, at 450 pounds - I am too far gone, but there are millions and millions of people at healthy weights that enjoy buffalo wings for example and maintain that healthy weight through proper eating, moderation on "bad" foods and exercise. I want to be one of those people eventually.

I am curious to know what you are referring to. Please get back to me.

What she said ^^^^ I find it a little disheartening when people think they don't have to change their eating habits just because they can eat less. This thinking is why over 50% of people gain some or all of their weight back. The hardest part of this whole process is realizing our love affair with food really has to end. It really has to turn into more of a respect for food by understanding what we eat can either make us or break us. Mindful eating, not eating less, is they key to our success. Understanding that is half the battle. I know I have to change my eating habits and I never said otherwise. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to ask - can I have a slice or two of pizza once in a while instead of my usual 10 slices two times a week. I feel maybe I haven't explained myself properly. I am not looking for a quick fix and I don't view surgery as the easy way out - I have seen what my wife has gone through, I just want to know if I can somewhat maintain a normal life when comes to food as long as I make smart choice, eat the things I love in moderation as some of you are doing and exercise. Part of the problem for me is that I am just overwhelmed at 450 pounds to do anything - I can't really work out very well and I can't catch my breath. If I was 250 pounds, I think I could lose the weight with healthy eating choices and working out. Surgery would restrict my intake and obviously provide faster weight loss as opposed to doing it myself. My wife is already at her goal weight 8 months later. She wouldn't be even close to her goal weight if she just trying to diet and exercise. If I was at my goal weight tomorrow or in 8 months or longer - 190 pounds, I would never allow myself to get fat again.

I am glad that someone understands what I am talking about when it comes to moderation. It's interesting what you say about the bypass. Even though I can't have one - the sleeve has been sold to me as the much less restrictive, not as intense surgery and somewhat "easier" to manage option - because there are more healthy foods that I will be able to choose from that she won't be able to tolerate - she can't eat certain meats, fruits, veggies and breads for example - they make her sick. In addition, I will never get dumping syndrome or vomiting if a food doesn't agree with me. That I can somewhat still live a normal life when it comes to food compared to my wife - where a piece of beef might make her run to the toilet. You hit the nail on the head - I still want to be able to make the choice as opposed for things to be forbidden. And I may make the choice that I don't want the things that you are still eating, but absolutes scare me. I don't mean this literally, but there is part of me that sort of has the feeling that life isn't worth living if you can't enjoy life's pleasures - like pizza. AGAIN, in moderation like you are doing.

Let me clarify that I don't think this is just a diet and that it is for life. Having said that, for life shouldn't mean that you can't have a hamburger or some pizza for the next 50 years until you die or enjoy things in moderation. That's the problem with most obese people - they didn't enjoy food in moderation or once in a while. They enjoyed bad food in excess and on a daily basis from the moment they got up to the moment they went to bed. If we all just had a Big Mac or pizza once in a while, but ate healthy the rest of the time and worked out, we wouldn't need to have surgery to help us lose weight.

By the way, I found this video to be informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5nm1GXqrm4

It's not resistance to change - it's deciding if this method is for me. If it's not for me - I will still need to make changes when doing calories in/calories out. I am not trying to hide information about myself. I figured it would come eventually. I am 45, 440 pounds - my goal is 190, what I used to be a few years back. I haven't been overweight all my life and I was pretty active. So of course carrying around 440 pounds has made it hard to be active. I have no health issues. Essentially I am healthy for a fat guy and that is what my doctor has told me, but it WILL eventually catch up to me. I don't drink or smoke, so that probably has a lot to do with it. I don't have a problem with giving up for a while - it's the forever that I have a problem with.