LondonHawk

I,will have a look at the products you are suggesting. I am not working out that intensely I am coaching so a little running around a lot of teaching and a bit of demonstrating but on your feet and moving get for a few hours. Less cardio and more endurance. The after 8 eating thing is an attempt to alter old habits. I was a night grazer and a bringer so I am really trying to establish new habits and break that cycle. Sent from my iPad using the BariatricPal App

Can you plan a meal, snack, or at least a protein shake or bar during your practice time. That is an awful long time to go without some protein when you are having a challenge getting it all in. I hope you are at least sipping fluid/water during that time. @innersurfergirl- I do manage to get in liquids as we are outside in Florida and I would die if I didn't! I take a poweraide zero around and add water to the bottle so I am constantly drinking as I go and we water break the players frequently so I drink then too. My NUT thought that was too long to go to so I am looking at sneaking in a couple of ounces of chicken or turkey jerkey around 5-5:30 hopefully that will help and then I wont eat after 8PM. I am not getting in 1000 calories a day though a lot of days I am closer to 500-600 a good day would be 800 calories

I feel you I think I have hit a stall this week. I have been averaging 5lbs a week since the 1st week after surgery in April so down about 50+lbs but this week stepped on the scale and up 2 lbs. Nothing is different eating 60-80g of Protein everyday and I am a Water and unsweetened ice tea fiend plus throwing a poweraide zero. The only thing that might be off is that I get home late from practices 8pm. We start at 3pm so no food during this time. I am trying to ride it out as I know it will get better.

On the contrary if someone said that orange juice made my feet smell better I would look for any evidence that corroborated that statement either falsely or truthfully. What I would like is actual evidence on the long term effects of diet soda consumption in any quantities on the sleeve. In the absence of that my alternative is to either soak my feet in orange juice as failure to do so could result in stinky feet while doing so could result in sticky but better smelling feet. LOL indeed this line of think i.e. weighing the upside vs the downside of a behavior has led to some very strange things. Think of the all the strange detox drinks that people drink on the basis it may make the younger, healthy, anti aging etc. Large parts of the beauty industry and indeed the diet industry are predicated on the fact they can make a dubious claim back by nothing more than observational study and the suckers start lining up with their cash. It harkens back to the days of snake oil merchants just tell folks what they want to hear and they will do the believing all on their own. Forget the soda question, how about evidence that sleeves can be stretched (more easily than a normal stomach). I've looked and I can't find any. I ask my surgeon and she said no. The former paramedic who hung about the operating room selling staples isn't that credible (to me anyways). Everything I've read or heard about failure is attributed to easily digested high calorie food or beverage. Regular soda, candy, Cookies, alcohol, chips, etc. I have never heard of someone stretching their sleeve and getting fat eating an entire pizza a one sitting! Has anyone? No but you could stretch your stomach eating an entire pizza on multiple occasions. The point is that no study or medical evidence exists on the ability to stretch a sleeve other than observational with some Dr's saying yes you can and others saying no you cant. So everyone is left to determine what they believe and how they will act accordingly, not an ideal situation.

On the contrary if someone said that orange juice made my feet smell better I would look for any evidence that corroborated that statement either falsely or truthfully. What I would like is actual evidence on the long term effects of diet soda consumption in any quantities on the sleeve. In the absence of that my alternative is to either soak my feet in orange juice as failure to do so could result in stinky feet while doing so could result in sticky but better smelling feet. LOL indeed this line of think i.e. weighing the upside vs the downside of a behavior has led to some very strange things. Think of the all the strange detox drinks that people drink on the basis it may make the younger, healthy, anti aging etc. Large parts of the beauty industry and indeed the diet industry are predicated on the fact they can make a dubious claim back by nothing more than observational study and the suckers start lining up with their cash. It harkens back to the days of snake oil merchants just tell folks what they want to hear and they will do the believing all on their own.

@Beck90- So there is no definitive or scientific evidence that debunks the "myth" of stretching the sleeve in general or demonstrates the effect of diet soda on the sleeve patients specifically. All we have to go on our the observational and anecdotal evidence as presented in the Dr Weinars video which was frankly his opinion. His opinion is no more or less valid than others and it seems to me that majority of surgeons do not advocated carbonated beverages especially diet sodas (I imagine for multiple reasons) The absence of evidence means that I personally will continue to err on the side of caution for multiple reasons it is MY physicians advice; if it turns out to be true down the road then I am good and if it is false down the road I didn't loss anything but the weight I am trying to change my lifestyle and ingrain new habits more in keeping with a paleo primal lifestyle. It is unhealthy regardless of its effects of my sleeve. I hope it all works out for you Becks. So far it has been great from a weight loss stand point but not without its complications.

It seems to me that is purely personal choice and also where you are in relation to your goal weight. It seems those that are closer to their goal tend to adopt a more liberal attitude towards the "rules" while those of us that are newly sleeved or still a long ways from our goal are a little more cautious.

I shall confer with him myself, then we can compare notes. He is currently chilling in my kitchen. I hope it isn't "Dr. Pepper TEN", because per the manufacturer, you aren't allowed to have it! Who was the marketing genius that came up with this ad? (At a board meeting) CEO: "Let's see, our profits are down, what can we do to affect our revenue?" Over Compensated Marketing Genius: "I know, let's try to alienate 50% of the population from our product" I can understand a vasectomy clinic coming up with a slogan "Not For Women" or even Tampax coming up with a slogan "Not For Men". I know it was an attempt on their part as humor and I guess a little controversy discussed in the masses is free publicity, but I don't know if they thought this one fully through. Maybe they were going for the banned in Boston approach? or "hey woman never listen to me so this will definitely make them want it!" Either way I have seriously reservations about Dr Pepper's qualifications. I don't think he is board certified and I would not recommend him as a surgeon.

I found that too but might as well not post the studies as it seems people don't want to see these types of truths. That article is wayyyyy too logical. Interesting that the article you posted states to not limit sweets but rather the volume. I'm sure that will be argued with as well. I don't think this is a study. By study I am looking for an actual experiment with a control or double blind controls and results or findings. The problem with so many food based studies is that they are not experiments but survey based. i.e. the issue with drinking diet sodas, does diet soda cause obesity or contribute or is do obese people just happen to drink diet soda? In order to truly know the effect of diet soda on our sleeves we would need to find results of a study where 2 groups were one drinking diet soda and one not. Their diets would need to be the same and their exercise the same and their weight gain/loss and comparative endoscopy results might allow us to draw some real conclusion about the effect of diet soda on your sleeve and weight loss. In the absence of that everything is conjecture and the only sensible alternative is to follow the advice of your physician, not the advice of someone else physician. After all if you hit a stall or a complication it is your actual physician you are going to be looking to help you correct things.

@LondonHawk- they give advise on the "unknown" to cover their arses. There has been, since the late 90's , something called Evidence Based Decision Making or EBDM. It has become COMMON practice where- in the lack of actual studies, when you see something over and over, you treat based upon what YOUR ( the doctor or practitioner) experience has been when treating patients. If they keep seeing the same reaction, result, etc from many people in the same circumstances, REGARDLESS of the presence or absence of research, they treat accordingly. With all that said, in the ABSENCE of any definitive data, a practitioner WILL employ the CYA method- Cover Your Arse. Always. Always. Always. It takes ONE EARLY finding or report to scare someone to FOREVER CYA. Even if it was 30 years ago! Even when evidence has been presented a thousand ways til Monday to dispute it. Because of there was EVER a shred of a hint that a patient may come back and complain or heaven forbid-sue!!!- they will want themselves protected. And I keep referring to "they" and "them" when in fact, I am one of THEM. I don't practice medicine but instead dentistry. Since 1989. And believe me, I have covered my OWN BUTT many, many times! @LisaMergs- That is kind of what I was thinking. I have yet to see a scientific study. Even though Beck90 stated in one of her previous post there are studies. Everything appears to observational based on that Dr's personal experience and belief. I would like to see a study that shows diet soda does not have an effect on your sleeve. I seriously doubt it exists just as no study exists linking diet soda to obesity. The only studies that exist link artificial sweeteners to obesity in lab rats and they draw causal links from that. If diet soda or any carbonated drink "could" stretch your pouch then using it is a risk regardless of how it works for you. If Dr's don't know the real answer to an issue then they usually err on the side of caution and advise you based on CYA or their personal experience. Some of us may recall the days before warning labels on cigarettes and even the days when some Dr's actually said smoking was good for you. Yep they said that cigarette or two was beneficial to your health. Clearly that was not the case! Personally I am a DES son, a well know prescribed drug in the early stages of pregnancy in the 50's and early 60's and low and behold it was removed for the damage it did to the children one of the most common issues is infertility. Spent most my life being told it was an issue only to find a "study" discover it was only an issue for DES daughters. Unfortunately a few of the other issue did catch me just not that one. Medical advice changes and alters only when studies are conducted and evidence provided. All the things we are going through now and more than likely in the next 20-30 years someone will develop a drug that does everything the sleeve does now (until of course they do a study figure out the long term issues and pull it from the market LOL). We can always find validation from some source for what we want to do so rather than worry about that do what is best for you with the awareness that you are responsible for those decisions.

I never smoked a day in my life. Clearly you have me confused with someone else!

That isn't a study it is an opinion advice piece. I had a look and could not find an actual scientific study with control mechanisms. A lot of people have doctors telling them it is okay and at least one Dr we have seen here is publicly calling it a myth but where is the actual study.

Can anyone provide a link to the study showing that the carbonation stomach stretching is a myth? I saw the MI Dr's videoand his information was based on his anectodal experience. Where is the actual study that says it cannot happen?

Clearly all the information regarding stretching of the sleeve, effects of diet soda on weight loss etc are observational as far as I can tell. I haven't seen any studies on stretching of the sleeve and what causes it besides the obvious overeating and there don't seem to be any causal studies on the effects of diet soda on stretching. That being said I don't think a surgeon telling you he believes it will cause stretching or issues or is generally unhealthy and therefore suggesting that you avoid diet soda or carbonation in general makes him a liar, it just means that is his opinion and recommendation. In the absence of evidence physicians often form opinions and care plans based on their personal experience and belief. I would be more concerned if 9 out of 10 surgeons disagreed with that advice but clearly those numbers don't always hold up. @Beck90- I would never let a surgeon operate on me if I didn't trust him! You have really got to address this issue with him. Take your studies and have the conversation and satisfy yourself that he is coming at this issue with your health in his mind. If you feel he isn't you need to find another Dr and or another way to fund your surgery. If you have complications this guy is going to be advising you and recommending treatment if your starting position is mistrustful that could be very dangerous. @ladyinthsouth- It is great that you can do all that stuff and suffer no ill effect. I have never understood the smoking thing but ce la vie. I have eaten cake, pizza and all the other stuff you can imagine the net result of which is that I weighed 420lbs and had to have my stomach removed in an attempt to change my life so if it is all the same I will operate on the theory that I will NEVER cake and NEVER eat pizza because quite honestly I have eaten enough of those things for probably 10 lifetimes. For some of us this is like alcoholism I want those things, I can have those things, I just choose not to have them today. That is what works for me. Maybe I will feel different later but for this moment that is how I feel. I don't want to be where I was and not eating those things makes it possible. Same with diet soda it was part of an unhealthy life style which I am trying to distance myself from. I don't feel that I can make changes without altering my behavior and my relationship with food. I no longer use food as a treat or a reward. I want to just make the healthiest food choice I can today. I don't think I am in the minority here but maybe I am.

@beck90 I think you missed my point. What I was saying is that your personal physician the person who does yo​ur surgery is going to give you advice. You then have a choice follow it or don't. Sure information is important but in this day in age there are multiple opinions on any topic. Ultimately you have to decided and live with the consequences. My question is if you know something is processed and not good for you why would you want to drink it if you are committing to a new healthy lifestyle? Is the risk that it might sabotage the effectiveness of your weightloss program worth that temporary satisfaction obtained by having it? For most of us we had weightloss surgery because we were desperate to change our lives! So we are willing to do what ever it takes to get to that change. I am sure a lot of folks who are at their goal or very near are willing to make compromises and have indulgences. No Dr whether you are obese or not is going to tell you any soda is good for you. Will it stretch your pouch who the hecks knows but do you really need to find out? It is a bit like Pascal's wager it may or may not stretch you pouch but if I never drink it I wont really care or need to know.

I am borrowing from a different post cant remember the author and I am paraphrasing but: I have been responsible for my nutrition and in charge for years. The net result of which is that I am morbidly obese and out of control. My philosophy was all things in moderation, the problem was my concept of moderation was extremely skewed. That moderation brought me Diabetes, Gout, High Cholesterol and probably liver and kidney damage. So now I have sleeve, a NUT and a Dr all deciding as a team that are in charge of my nutrition and low and behold I am dropping weight, Diabetes is gone, Cholesterol is lower and liver is probably regenerating. If it is all the same I think the team probably makes better decisions than me where my nutrition is concerned. You are free to eat and drink whatever you want and you can probably find a Physician that will tell you it is ok, but the vast majority wont. Why does it matter what they say you are in charge of your body do what you want after all you have to live with the consequences.

Me too please April 4th!

I had mine done in Orlando by Dr Jawad and I paid about what you are estimating circa $15k. It was worth every penny!

We were sleeved about the same time. I was done on April 8. I know how you feel. I coach football and I am on the field from 3PM until about 8PM every day and it is hot so 5 hours in which it is impossible to get food in. I can recommend Isopure as it has 40g a bottle and counts as part of your liquid intake. I have one of those around during practice. I agree that one of the best ways is to make sure family meals include protein and that way you can eat the same things as the family just in a different order or smaller quantity. The other thing I do is add a tsp of natural organic butter(4g of protein) to Inspire Peanut Butter protein mix (20g) in the AM with 1/2 cup of milk (I use Fairlife non fat which has 6.5g of protein) this really helps me start my day with 30g in my first drink of the day. My NUT has me on the soft food stage for the 4 weeks after you do the post op liquid so almonds are out and not sure the fat, calorie protein trade off is an improvement on the 1 tsp of peanut butter.

Strangefruit I feel for you. If you are really that unhappy about eating 800 calories and losing weight then don't eat what ever you need to maintain what you have lost and be happy. Everyone experience with surgery is different. For me it isn't just about weight loss it is about reversing the Diabetes and so far the results on that front have been astonishing. I was a total emotional eater prone to binge and grazing so for me the changes forced on me by my sleeve have been a godsend I feel like I have control for the first time in my life. I hope you figure it out.

Great article. It seems to be an incredibly complex issue but I feel it kind of reconfirms what I thought. Activity, any activity is essential. Altering life habits not just eating habits is important and being 100% honest in your food journal, if it goes in your mouth it goes in the journal are all keys to making this work. It just reinforces that thinking that SVG is a tool not an an answer we have to do all the other stuff ourselves.

I agree that the exercise routine and the controlled environment has a lot to do with TBL contestants success. I also imagine that keeping those lifestyle alterations once you go home is extremely difficult especially when for most of us there is a direct link between our emotional state and our overeating. So unless the emotional links are severed or dealt with it is hard to break that cycle. I also wonder how they can possibly manage to maintain the 8 hours plus of daily workouts! I know SVG alters other things in your metabolism, insulin production etc so it could also have some effect on our metabolic rate and while we will eventually reach an equilibrium I am hopeful that it would be lower than in the TBL contestants. I also understand that eating Protein, 5-6 meals, weight lifting, eating real foods as opposed to processed, Water consumption and a lot of other variables effect metabolic rate. It just seems to further demonstrate that the whole weight issue is more complicated than simple calories in and calories out because even if you get it right your body alters itself to do what it is programmed to do in order to return you to the state it needs to get to.

Hi LondonHawke - on the metabolism side of things, I don't think we escape the slowdown - when you look at two factors: Weight loss rates gradually slow, and total weight loss tends to level off with time, at roughly 60% of excess weight lost, on average Patients eat a good deal less than would be expected for a person of their age, sex, height and weight I actually asked the guy who became my surgeon this exact question in one of the pre-surgery group info sessions - is the metabolism permanently slowed, given the above, and does that explain why people stop losing, and why they need to continue eating so little? He didn't really answer - not sure if he didn't know, or if he thought I wouldn't like the answer. I understand that as our weight drops the calories required to operate our body at rest should drop to match the actual calories we consume, but the article seemed to indicate that the TBL contests actually had a change in that their bodies metabolic resting rate was lower than the norm of an individual of the same size ie. their body lowered the resting rate in an attempt to help itself adjust back to its programmed weight. It seems to imply that even if they kept up their rigorous exercise routine they would have regained weight or had to increase the exercise level in order to maintain. My question is that TBL contests would technically have the same amount of grehlin in their body regardless of their existing weight, we don't our chemistry has been altered so will or do we suffer the same consequence.

I have been using Dynamatize from GNC it seems to pack the most Protein for the calories and it isn't super sweet. I also have the Inspire Bariatric mix but dont like it as much. I add a frozen half a banana to my morning drink.

Great article. I really wonder how that compares to surgery. We have had hormones removed from us so maybe the metabolic issues are different for us.