ariscus99

I thought the thread said mandated auto insurance? Please post health care information in the health care thread. Back to auto mandated insurance, stated in previous thread, dumb straw man argument. Not everyone can drive because of vision, age, physical capacity and mental capacity. Since those factors and a few others exist in this society, there won't be a mandate. Not to mention as I stated before, you can't make people get a car or get a license for a car they don't have nor make handicap people capable to drive or children drive or people to old to drive, no mandate. What else?

You can't make someone go to a doctor or to a hospital er, or get a surgery, so why is there a mandate on it? Your giving examples that can just as easily be given right back to you on the healthcare debate. And you think they're ok for healthcare, but not for auto ins. which I don't want either.

I thought the thread said mandated auto insurance? Please post health care information in the health care thread. Back to auto mandated insurance, stated in previous thread, dumb straw man argument.

It's an internet forum, I'll say what I want where I want. The OP was obviously facetious. And you were drawn out perfectly by it. Saying if the government mandates you do something then it's a good idea. So why would me saying the same thing about healthcare be wrong? I wanted a thread not over ran with CM's red lettering and bjrem and leghamusin, all over her coattails. So here it is, for now.

Great!! As soon as they mandate that I buy a car or have a drivers license. Or have a license but not buy a car...ugh I can't think since this question and explanation just dropped my IQ points. Dumb premise, dumb argument, but your good at being funny like Fake Noise.

So when they mandate that I go to the doctor, then, healthcare reform will make sense? Is that what your saying?

For far too long, automobile insurance carriers have been preying on the wallets and transportational health of the American people. Year after year, drivers in this country pay thousands of dollars to insure themselves against accidents, dings and dents, and personal injuries. We are statutorly mandated to have coverage in order to legally operate a vehicle, but the government does nothing to control costs and make insurance affordable.

We pay higher premiums for being too young or too old.

We pay higher premiums for the cars that we choose to drive.

We pay higher premiums for the misfortune of getting nabbed speeding or running a red light.

And some even lose their insurance all together merely for being reckless or negligent behind the wheel.

Poor people are forced to under-insure with places like Safe-Auto or The General that do not provide collision insurance and run the risk of bankruptcy if they are involved in a collision that they caused.

People with bad driving records are gouged by predatory carriers like Progressive, who charge high monthly rates to provide astronomically high deductables, and in the end don't pay out a dime to fix or replace a vehcile after another unfortunate accident.

And what about the millions of uninsured in this country? They are forced to take public transportation, ride a bike, or *gasp* walk to where they want to go just because they cannot afford the cost of insuring their vehicle. Sure, they can find a clunker for $500 on Craigs List, but what carrier will insure them for a reasonable monthly premium? These people are denied their constitutional right to transportation and no one bats an eye.

All the while, these wealthy wall-street bankers with clean driving records and expensive cars enjoy their full tort options and gap insurance when they could afford to buy a new car if theirs got dinged in a fender bender.

It has become clear that the time has come for change in this country. For far too long, the pampered few with no moving violations and no accidents have benefited from the toils of the terminally lead-footed and accident prone. Every man, woman, and child (over the age of 16) in this great society are entitled to low-cost, government subsidized, and government managed automobile insurance. Let not another day pass without Dear Leader tackling the promise of Universal Car Insurance for all Americans.

This is the type of irrational reply that makes me unable to take your arguments seriously.

I'm being serious. What's the end goal for liberals? Just free medical care and free education? Everything else you must work for? Is that what you all want? Or is there something else too? What else should the government be taking care of for us? What are we the people not smart enough to handle that the government needs to? Our money? Should they regulate that, just flat out control all banking systems? What about private industry? If I don't want to hire someone should that be my right not to hire them? Or should the government be able to regulate who I can and cannot hire? We did try that once with affirmative action. I'm very curious what the end goal for liberals and democrats is. It obviously isn't independence, personal responsibility, and a strong free market, or you wouldn't be trying so desperately to get the government involved in so many things. Is your perfect utopia a full on socialized nation? Communism? Or is it something else? Enlighten me.

hey, I don't know about kartman but I want socialized medicine for all. The fact that some of you are scared to death of it because you're so afraid of it, is very unfortunate.

Why stop at medicine, shouldn't everything be free for everyone shouldn't we all just get to relax and hang out all day while the government takes care of all of us?

You’re right. A better method would be to asses an appropriate Medicare tax on ALL earned income and provide Basic Universal Coverage to everyone - Medicare for all. Under basic coverage everyone would have access to well doctor visits, medically necessary procedures, chronic disease coverage, and catastrophic illness protection. Everything above basic coverage could be covered under supplemental insurance that could be purchased on the open market. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

Then here is you saying medicare for all. One post says medicare for all, another says medicare is socialized medicine, so, 1+1=2, you want socialized medicine for everyone.

It’s not socialized medicine – that is nothing more than a talking point. At best, it might be described as socialized insurance administration. Socialized medicine would be more like our VA or the British system (I’m not advocating for either of those). In those systems, the administration, hospitals, and doctors are ALL employees of the government. We actually do it here today, its called Medicare. And here is a surprise, it actually works and the people that get it like it pretty well. The part of Medicare that doesn’t work in its funding. We haven’t increased the taxes on it to keep up with inflation and people are living longer now than when it was first conceived. So if it costs more and you fund it the same you will have a shortfall – simple math.

Don’t tell me to move. I am a small business owner (I do provide insurance to my employees btw), a tax payer, a veteran, and a voter. I’m not saying my plan is the one the majority wants, I am just saying it is the one that make the most sense to me.

Is this not you saying medicare is socialized medicine?

The possibility of my being killed by foreign terrorists is slim to none and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything George W. Bush did while in office.

I'm glad you saw fit to refute my questions. And just so's you know, it was mostly done tongue in cheek.

As for the final question, I was just kidding around because someone said you're actually patty in disguise. (I think that might be for the reason that you and she have similar political views, use similar grammar and misspell some of the same words.)

Grammar police? Really? Over half of my posts are posted from my iphone. I always find it amusing when people online decide to nit pick grammar, I've had a few other people try it with me before. They always think it shows something, about themselves, and the person with poor grammar or spelling. But nevertheless I've always been able to go back and find dozens and dozens of their own mistakes. If you want to make attacks towards people for grammatical errors, how about your pal phil, who uses the most random a$$ parenthesis I've ever seen in my life, they make no sense whatsoever, And make reading his post's very difficult.

Thats a very nice maneuver around a comment you obviously couldn't say no to, but thought by saying yes you would be congratulating President Bush, good job with that.:thumbup:

I don't know. I will try to find out because that is an interesting question. My first thought is that if children can stay on their parent's health insurance that is paid by an employer, why wouldn't the child be able to stay on their mother's medicaid that is paid for by the government? I really don't know.

In CA, a child is not covered by their parents medicade(medi-cal in CA), if the parent qualifies the child always qualifies on there own for medi-cal. So when they turn 18 they would have to re-apply for medi-cal. I don't know how it works else where but that is how it works, pre-obamacare, in CA.

Rather than file a lawsuit that they will lose, perhaps a better use of Florida's taxpayer's money would be for that foster care. Estimates in my state is that it would cost $950 million to file the lawsuit. I guess they think they can afford THAT!

That probably would be a better appropriation of the funds, are the guaranteed to lose though? I don't know. We shall see, lots of laws and case law to look at here.

Ten states (so far) have lined up to sue over obamacare, florida AG says,

"There's no way we can do what's required in this bill and still provide for education, for foster care."

--Bill McCollum, Florida attorney general

All of the attorneys general in the 10 states mentioned by McCollum are Republican, but McCollum said the lawsuit would be about the law and not politics.

Also Monday, Virginia's Republican attorney general said his state would file a lawsuit challenging the health care bill. It was unclear if Virginia would join the other states or proceed on its own. The U.S. House of Representatives passed the bill on Sunday night, and Obama intends to sign it Tuesday, according to Democratic sources.

What will health care reform mean to you?

McCollum said the lawsuit would challenge the bill's provision requiring people to purchase health insurance, along with provisions that will force state government to spend more on health care services.

"This is a tax or a penalty on just living, and that's unconstitutional," he said of the mandate to purchase health coverage. "There's no provision in the Constitution of the United States giving Congress the power to do that."

McCollum also said that portions of the bill would force states to spend money they don't have, which he called a violation of the 10th Amendment to the Constitution.

"There's no way we can do what's required in this bill and still provide for education, for foster care, for the incarceration of prisoners, all the other things that are in this bill," he said.

McCollum said he expected the lawsuit to eventually reach the U.S. Supreme Court.

Later Monday, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said the Obama administration expected to win any lawsuits filed against the health care bill.

The Democratic governor of Washington criticized her state's attorney general, Rob McKenna, for being part of the planned lawsuit.

Gov. Chris Gregoire issued a statement that said she disagreed with McKenna's decision and that the attorney general was not representing her. Gregoire's statement also said she would actively oppose the lawsuit.

Ya, thats what I thought. So I guess you like Obama then. He has stepped up attacks in Pakistan and has caught a few high value Taliban leaders. He has kept us safe also! Im glad to hear

you like Obama. Assumeing thats your only criteria. Hes also "fighting them over there so we dont have to fight them here". You guys are all the same. You spout at the mouth, regurgitating what Hannity and Beck say.

Do I like the fact that we haven't been successfully attacked so far, under obama? Absolutely, if you read my posts about GWB you'll see that I said I didn't like him much. Didn't vote for him, but was thankful to not have been killed by terrorists while he was president. So yeah, I love obama on that point. Most other's? No.

You make extreme comments and then when someone goes off on a tangent in a reply, you feign innocence. Yeah, you're innocent of everything I've accused you of. Okay let's start over. You hate paying taxes, but only when it's for something you like. Did I get that right? You don't like George Bush, you didn't vote for him, but you're beholding to him for keeping your body from being blown away by a terrorist. Did I get that right? You think it is fair to call the current bill that has been passed "Obamacare" and you equate it to socialism. Am I wrong about that? You voted to keep gay marriage legal in your state but we shouldn't think badly of you because you have gays in your family. Is that about it? I'm curious, in light of what loserbob just said. If you were passing out food to people who thought they needed food, but one of them was smoking a cigarette, would you deny them that food? Just curious... P.S. I'm pretty sure you called it "obamacare" on more than one occasion but I am not willing to spend my time tracking it down. So you can score one for you, if you think that it's not what you said.

Your mostly wrong, we'll go over these so your clear as to where you stand.

1. I don’t like paying taxes, who does? It matters not what they are for. My gripe isn’t that I don’t want to pay for things I don’t want, or don’t like, it’s that I already pay and exorbitant amount, now I’ll have to pay more, being penalized for being successful, I didn’t think that was part of America. So no, you don’t have that right.

2. I don’t like Bush, didn’t vote for him, and I am glad while he was president a terrorist didn’t kill me. That’s correct. I’d bet you feel the same way. You hate him, you didn’t vote for him, and I’ve got to believe you’re glad you weren’t killed by a terrorist while he was president.

3. I do think it’s fair to call it obamacare, it’s a nickname, I hear it all the time, and even on the left wing news outlets when I flip threw them. Also to go along with that thought process, this bill will be paramount to the obama presidency, one way or another, he will live or die by this so, calling it obamacare is actually kind of fitting. I imagine by you asking this, you think calling it this is bad. But you are right I have called it that. But I don't remember calling it socialism, so this actually a wrong now too. Sorry didn't read thoroughly the first time.

4. I did vote to keep gay marriage legal, why would you think badly of me for that? Yes I have a gay cousin; she didn’t influence my vote at all. I actually didn’t know about her sexual orientation until after the first vote. It’s just not something that bothers me, if you think badly of me for that, I apologize. So you’re wrong here too.

So all in all, you got one of four points correct. 25%, that’s an F. Sorry. I don’t know what the last question is regarding? But no; I would not exclude someone from getting free food for smoking. That seems a little strange. People have vices, who cares.

See what I'm saying kartman? It's a fraud perpetrated on Americans to their detriment. I just want to yell, "Snap out of it!" and get them to listen to reason. But I gotta tell ya, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck and those buggers who keep the fear alive and well-fed, are way more convincing than you or I.

Read his post, he called medicare, socialized medicine. And prior to that he had advocated for medicare for all. If that doesn't equal socialized medicine for all tell me what it equals? I didn't call obamacare socialized medicine I don't think, unless thats another one of those pesky post's that keep disappearing like kartman was having trouble with earlier before he decided he couldn't win that argument because he was making stuff up and trying to represent it as my opinion. And don't worry your "long-winded tirades" really aren't all that long or hard to read. It's kind of interesting to see you say the same thing over and over, and make the same false accusation of me even after I rebut it over and over again. You get stuck thinking something and just don't know how to get off it.

It’s not socialized medicine – that is nothing more than a talking point. At best, it might be described as socialized insurance administration. Socialized medicine would be more like our VA or the British system (I’m not advocating for either of those). In those systems, the administration, hospitals, and doctors are ALL employees of the government. We actually do it here today, its called Medicare. And here is a surprise, it actually works and the people that get it like it pretty well. The part of Medicare that doesn’t work in its funding. We haven’t increased the taxes on it to keep up with inflation and people are living longer now than when it was first conceived. So if it costs more and you fund it the same you will have a shortfall – simple math.

Don’t tell me to move. I am a small business owner (I do provide insurance to my employees btw), a tax payer, a veteran, and a voter. I’m not saying my plan is the one the majority wants, I am just saying it is the one that make the most sense to me.

Socialized insurance administration? Well if the government pays the ins. and the ins. pays the doctors, then in turn, the government is paying the doctors, so.... socialized medicine again. Maybe not complete socialized medicine, because most hospitals are government ran yet, but it's still pretty much socialized medicine. Your calling Medicare socialized medicine, and your advocating for medicare for all, doesn't that mean socialized medicine for all?

airbus: "California does have state taxes, and we also pay property tax. So things are little different tax wise here, believe it or not."

You choose to live in California, right? How's that working for ya? Are you one of those friendly folks who voted to stop gay marriage?

Rjean, I do choose to live here, it's working fine, I couldn't find another job that pays what mine does, with the hours I work and the time I have off, probably anywhere in this country. We pay high taxes, thats all I'm saying about it. And no(gasp) I'm not one of those friendly folks who voted to stop gay marriage, it has no affect on me personally, and I have several gay friends as well as couple gay relatives, and if they want to be married I say let em. My wife was a little bummed when on our marriage application instead of saying "man and wife, or bride and groom" or whatever it used to say, you just enter your name and check a box that says what sex you are, but she got over it. I actually voted for them to get married, and against the ban that took that right away. I know, crazy right? A right wing fundie who hates, all the poor people and black people and taxes and America, but doesn't hate the gays.....:smile::confused:

I'm not arguing, you understand. But you are wrong about my role in politics and government. And you are wrong about a lot of things. You speak of my use of "talking points" but your use of them is what prompted my anti-tax rant.

So I understand now. If YOU think it is important, you don't mind paying taxes for it. But since YOU have a good health care plan (for why else would you be arguing the way you have been against what is it you call it? "Obamacare") since YOU have a decent health plan, YOU don't think that the system needs to be changed.

How very open-minded, thoughtful and generous of spirit. Not.

Shall I quote all the post's just in the last day where I've said the system NEEDS TO CHANGE! I can if thats what it really takes to get through to you. However you've read them all, so you should already know that I am for changing the healthcare system, just not the way it's changing too. You seem to be stuck on the thought that if someone isn't for obamacare, then they must like it the way it is. Actually, I can be against obamacare, and be for health care reform. It's a novel idea I know.

You’re right. A better method would be to asses an appropriate Medicare tax on ALL earned income and provide Basic Universal Coverage to everyone - Medicare for all. Under basic coverage everyone would have access to well doctor visits, medically necessary procedures, chronic disease coverage, and catastrophic illness protection. Everything above basic coverage could be covered under supplemental insurance that could be purchased on the open market. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

Socialized medicine, with a splash of free market, that would undoubtedly fail pretty rapidly. That is what you want. Thats fine, however the majority of America does not agree with you. Myself included. If you want this type of coverage, move somewhere it is offered. No one else in the world can do that at the scale that we would have to do it. So it would undoubtedly fail eventually as well. Canada has trouble with it on a scale 1/10th of America. Sweden? 1/30th of America I believe. So unless someone like China, does it and it works well for everyone, not just some, lets not be the guinea pig, when the consequence is so large, and the outcome is so certain.

Sorry, but after the many years I've spent in politics, that's the way I see it.

This interests me, what is your political background, please enlighten me to what you did during your many years in politics? The way spat off about random nothingness I've got to say, I don't really believe you've had much to do with politics other then maybe supporting your local dem at a rally or helping his campaign for an hour or two a week. Though you do have the talking points down pat so maybe I'm wrong.

Did I miss something? Has Obama “caused” us to be attacked during his time in office? In fact, I think the data shows that under his (Obama’s) watch more high level Al Qaida and Taliban have been killed or captured at a faster rate than under the last administration.

Did I miss something, let me go back and check were I said we were attacked under obama. Aww man I can't find the post where I said that, can you show me it real quick.:smile: Other than the underwear bomber, who by dumb luck didn't succeed and depending on how you take the fort hood incident.

ariscus so now you want to bring up state taxes and bitch about that? Bitching about the United States government and the Internal Revenue Service isn't enough for you?

Would you feel a whole lot better about yourself if we did away with public schools (yeah, you probably home school), the police department, the health department, the fire department, the Water department, city government, help for funding colleges, and each and everything that makes this country the best country on earth? Why don't you live in the U.K. where you'd be paying a heckofa lot more in taxes? Or a South African country where you might not have clean water?

Where do you want to start cutting - oh yeah - it's medical care, right? You like the system we had that politicians and intelligent people have been trying to change for 50 years because it is so lousy. Great. We keep that. What's next? Public schools?

Again, your ignorance is just outrageous. Read my post. I'm fine paying taxes. Yeah I complain about all of them, there's a lot. And a lot of the money is misappropriated, and that pi$$es me off. Let’s see cut schools? No my wife works for the schools. Cut fire? No I work for fire. I UNDERSTAND THAT TAXES NEED TO BE PAID!!!! I UNDERSTAND WE CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THEM!!!!! Where did I say get rid of any of these programs???? Oh wait I didn't, you’re just rambling on the liberal talking points. Someone says I hate taxes your rebuttal "oh you hate roads? You hate schools? You hate police departments, fire departments? Local government, you hate it all you want it all free, and you want the poor people of America to pay for it for you" Put your talking points aside for a second. I pay more than most in taxes. But I know I'm lucky to have a great job, and to have a wife with a great job, so we understand we pay more then some, when that number jumps, there's a problem with that. If more people would do their part by being active working contributing people to our society, taxes could be lowered on everyone. If we had a flat tax, taxes could be lowered on everyone. Why don't I live in the UK? Because I choose not to. Why not a South African country? Because I choose not to. If I was born there and miserable I would try my hardest to leave, like many do, and go through the process to legally become an American citizen. These are silly and ridiculous questions. I've said time and again, that the health care system is no good, so no; I don't want it to stay the same. However I don't like obamacare either. I think there are other better methods that I've talked about ad nauseam, ad infinitum here. Stop being ignorant.

Really?

That is an incredibly myopic and ignorant view of history. The unjustified and unnecessary war in Iraq created more terrorists than any recruiting drive Al-Qaida could have conceived of. The war in Iraq also created a tremendous opportunity for Iran to become the nemesis they are today. The illegal torture techniques, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo (Cheney still defends these today) are all used by our enemies as a justification for everything they are doing. The ongoing doomed to failure approach in Afghanistan is doing nothing more than propping up a corrupt drug dealing dictatorship and a civil war that is of no business of ours.

Thats fine. I agree we shouldn't be there, I don't want to be there, I have friends and family who are, I've lost friends over there. Your not gonna get me to say go kill em all, we should be there now. If thats what you think my stance is. My point was simple. Under Bush, post 9/11 myself and my country were safe. We were not attacked on that scale or any real scale here in our country, which is all I said.

Texas doesn't have "state taxes", we pay "property taxes" based on the value of our property.

California does have state taxes, and we also pay property tax. So things are little different tax wise here, believe it or not.