MacMadame

People don't understand statistics. When studies show that lap band patients lose an average of 42%, that doesn't mean everyone loses that amount. Some people don't lose ANY and some people get to goal weight. This is the way that it was explained to me in one of my statistics classes is: Say you know that the average height of people in a room is 5'5". How many people in the room are 5'5"? The answer is: you don't know. It could be most, it could be half, it could NONE. Statistics describe groups, not individuals. You are an individual and you will lose your individual amount. So how do you know how much you will lose? You don't really. But one of the goals of the pre-op appointments with the nutritionist and the shrink are to help you get an idea of how lap band surgery works and how your own tendencies will play into your success and failure. For example, are you an emotional eater? The band doesn't help with that. Do you have a sweet tooth? Many sweets are "band friendly". Is your problem mostly hunger or portion control? The band is designed to control your hunger and limit your portion sizes. Are you someone who sticks to a diet and doesn't cheat or are you a big cheater? If you are a big cheater, it's quite easy to cheat the band. Also, 42% is a lot better statistic than you get from a traditional diet. The success rate for people who get to goal and keep their weight off for at least 5 years (not even for life) is somewhere between 2 and 9 %. Lap band patients as a whole lose more weight and keep it off longer than those who go on a diet, even those who combine their diet with exercise. The way I look at it, why do something over and over again that has a very low chance of success? Maybe the lap band won't work for me, but I already know that dieting doesn't work. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different outcome each time. That makes getting a lap band the sane choice in my book.

But they don't mean by that that every person with a BMI of 24.9 is healthy and every person with a BMI of 25 is unhealthy. Let's set aside the questionable origins of the BMI charts for now. What exactly do those charts mean? They are *guidelines* based on *statistical averages*. Statistics described populations -- that is groups of people. Statistics are never predicative for an individual. You can't look at a chart and know for a fact who is unhealthy and who isn't. When I was a kid, the charts said I was overweight. My BMI (if they had such a thing back then) was between 20 and 23. That is considered healthy now. But in 1970 I was considered unhealthy by the charts in use at the time. The reality is that I was as healthy as I was. I didn't suddenly become more healthy the day the new charts were released. You can't take any of these measure so literally. We have some general ideas as to what makes people healthy and how to measure it but our measures are inexact. Weight is inexact. BMI is inexact. Blood pressure is inexact. Cholesterol is inexact. All of these numbers are clues as to our health, but they aren't exact. You can't tell if someone is healthy based on their numbers alone. It's not even true that someone with a BMI of 20 would be less healthy if their BMI was 26. It *might* be true. But it totally depends on the individual. If you want to say that people, in general, should strive for a BMI at or near the healthy range, I can buy that. If you say that in general a BMI of over 25 is less healthy than a lower BMI (as long as it's not so low as to be underweight), I can buy that. But when you say anyone with a BMI of over 24.9 is unhealthy, I can't buy that. Because it's not true and it's not what the medical community is saying and it's not what the BMI charts prove.

I always put up the armrests when I fly and am seated with family. No one has ever tried to stop me and I've seen lots of people do it. So I'm wondering about this "law" and somewhat doubtful that it actually exists.

I thought I was fat my entire life ... well from about 8 or 9 years old on. But I recently plugged my numbers from when I went on my first diet into a children's BMI calculator and they put me in the heathy range. Plus my next youngest sister was my size even though younger but she never got the fat label. Families can be weird the way they label people and the labels don't even have to match reality.

You probably should have done this beforehand rather than after the fact, but your surgeon and and the hospital often have negotiable rates. For example, it's very unlikely that the self-payers are getting billed for almost $60 for this surgery. In fact, that's the highest I've ever heard of. They will bill the insurance company for some outrageous rate in order to guarantee they get the amount they really want, which is often much less. Explain that because they are out-of-network that you are essentially not insured and see if they will cut you a deal.

I think you have to pick something you love to do even if it's not the best exercise. I spent the past 10 years ice dancing and it's not a big aerobic workout, but it was fun and I was willing to do it. At one point I was doing it 6-10 hours a week! That's way better than not doing anything. Which is what I'm dong right now. :smile2: I went to Curves for a while and I loved it. -I loved the hydraulic machines because I always worry with traditional ones that I'm using too much or too little weight. I can control the hydraulic ones so that I get the perfect amount of resistance. -I also loved that it was a bunch of unfit ladies and not a bunch of gym rats. -I loved that if I was doing the machine wrong, I'd get corrected right away. When I go to the gym I can *never* get the attention of the people who work there. They are either chatting up the hot chicks or hiding from the customers. I hate the hours and the location though. It wasn't convenient so I stopped going. We have a gym at work that is free and you can even hire a personal trainer as there are several who are contracted with the company. They have pilates and yoga classes, too, that are run by a combination of employees and a contractor. So I'm going to try that. First I need to have a week where I'm not out at doctor's appointments several times a week though!

You are also more susceptible to colds when you are dieting.

I'm having insurance issues and it looks like I'm going to have to switch my surgeon. Dr. Estakhri at ValleyCare Medical Center takes both my old insurance and the one I'll switch to at open at enrollment and I like the look of the program from the hospital's web site. Dr. Estakhri doesn't have a web site though or much info about her on the web. I did find an article about her from 2004 so she's been doing these surgeries for a while and she has good patient testimonials on ObesityHelp.com. I'd like to hear from someone who has used her and/or been through the WLS program at ValleyCare though. Anyone?

I don't agree that the stewardess can take care of the kicking kid. The stewardess can't do more than ask their parents to not let their kid kick the seat. But if the parents aren't going to stop their kids from kicking, they aren't going to do it. And if they are a certain type of person, they will just get mad at YOU for daring to criticize them, their little darling, and their parenting skills. Heck, some lady had a guy move out of his assigned seat and come jack off on her and the stewardess wouldn't do anything about, not even tell him to go back to his assigned seat. They aren't going to do much about annoying people unless it's really, really bad. Someone who keeps asking you questions so you can't sleep isn't bad enough. Airlines are one of the worst run businesses in the world, IMO, and making seats smaller then demanding people pay for two of them is just one example of how they don't keep the customer in mind.

I don't like people typing like they are texting. It's not THAT many more letters to say your instead of u and you're instead of ur. Also, I also don't like it when people whine about people whining about poor communication skills. :biggrin: We're all going to make mistakes -- misspell an occasional word, leave out a word, type it's instead of its -- but some people clearly make NO effort. You don't have to be a master writer to hit the return key once in a while. Even if you don't do it in the "right" place, if you put in a return every couple of sentences, it will make your post 100% easier to understand. The same with capitalizing words like I and the first word in a sentence. Posting a message on a public board should be about communication, not about verbal regurgitation, and if you can't type something that people can understand without major effort, you need to improve your communication skills.

Ooh, good one. But I still disagree that a person with a 24.9 BMI is healthy but a person with a 25 BMI is not. Sorry, but you aren't going to convince me that as soon as you gain that extra pound or two, you stop being healthy. That's not how science or statistics works. The BMI charts are just guidelines and you can't take them so literally like that.

Why should I have to smell someone else's perfume that aggrevates my allergies? I paid as much for my seat as someone who doesn't have allergies. Why should I be miserable? Or how about a smelly person? A loud talker? That drunk guy who can't keep his hands to himself? How about that kid who keeps kicking the back of my seat or the family flying with a small baby who keep crying? The guy who sits down and immediately grabs BOTH armrests so that the person in the middle hasn't got any place to put their arms? Should they all have to pay more because all these people are annoying the crap out of the rest of us and even impinging on our space? At a time when the average American is getting wider, airlines have responded by making airline seats even smaller and closer together. Heck, I'm barely over 5 ft and my legs are too long for the average airline seat. I really feel for those are who are taller than average. Airlines have made fat people the scapegoat, but in reality charging a few people extra for a second seat isn't going to make or break their profit margin. Then, they institute the next cheap-ass policy to try to save a few more nickles and it turns off even more people so even less people fly so they make even less money. It's a vicious cycle and they can't seem to see how badly they run their business. P.S. I have flown next to normal weight people who still spill over into my seat. They do it because they sprawl in their seat and are rude jerks who don't care about anyone else but themselves. (These are usually the two armrest people too.) Should the airlines charge them more too? I'd actually be on board for that -- you can choose not to be rude, but obesity is a lot more complex than that.

They don't really fold it, as far as what I think of when I hear the word "fold". They kind of scoop it up and suture it in place on top of the band so the band is in a sort of tunnel formed by the stomach wall. (I've been watching lap band surgeries online. :biggrin: )

You need to get a copy of your insurance policy to find out the exact wording of the exclusion. Some people have policies that say WSL is excluded period and for those, you should only appeal if it's part of the process to get your company to hear your case. (I.E., if the appeals eventually go to the board at your company that approves exceptions). If your company doesn't do it that way, you need to use whatever method they do use to get your appeal to the right people. But some policies say WLS is excluded unless medically necessary and in those cases, you can appeal and make a better case for being medically necessary and it will work.

BCBS will pay for lap band surgery done in Mexico. My insurance company is Aetna and on their "Find a Doc" site, there is a special drop-down for Mexican doctors in the Vitalidad HMO plan. So... I think you are misinformed. P.S. It's "you're telling me", not "your telling me".

That wasn't my experience. Airlines have a special bereavement rate that is lower than their normal full purchase rate, but it's still higher than the rate most people pay and to get it you have to jump through a lot of hoops -- some want you to bring a copy of the death certificate! Like I'm going to have that when I fly to my MIL's funeral. There is a bit difference between asking if you need a different seat and strong-arming you into paying for two seats. There is no *law* that says you have to pay for two seats. That's just an airline policy. Airlines are making it harder and less pleasant for more and more people to fly every day and then wonder why they can't make a profit. Companies that don't pay attention to the customer rarely last long. Many of these airlines would be long gone if they didn't get government bailouts and subsidies.

Here's some info on the history of the character, including the WLS line, and a picture of the actress: Ashlee Wolfe Played by Caitlin Van Zandt on Guiding Light - Soaps.com and here's a bit more about the actress: Caitlin Van Zandt - Ashlee - GUIDING LIGHT - GL - Bio

Hey guys, my shoulder is feeling better so I decided to start typing on LBT again. (I moved my mouse to the left hand so it's only typing that hurts me now.) We'll see how it goes. :biggrin:

I'm not afraid of what other people will think. But I want to avoid making my losing weight into a public event with people asking me how much I've lost and questioning everything I put into my mouth -- even if it's because they care and not because they want to be mean. I agree that most people don't notice what others eat and most of the rest are too polite to say anything. The people who are going to comment are the ones who are a) relative strangers, but rude, or :biggrin: close to you and so feel comfortable being that personal. You can't do much about the rude strangers, but for the people close to me, I think I will tell them eventually. But in my own time and as it comes up. Most of the people close to me aren't going to be too awful about it. I've ditched all the toxic people long ago...

It's true that every doctor seem to do things a bit differently, but I don't think that means that it's all okay. Some docs have better erosion and slip stats than others and I'm sure that their recommendations for post-op care feed into that. Also, chewing your food to mush and having it be mush when it enters your mouth are not the same thing. The act of chewing your food generates saliva and that activates various parts of your digestive system. If you are "eating" mushies, that doesn't happen. The whole purpose of being on the liquids and then the mushies is to keep your stomach quiet during the healing process. If it moves around digesting things, you increase your chance of the band not anchoring properly, which in turn can lead to slippage. Now, it's true that the experts don't know 100% why slippage occurs and right now the advice not to eat solid food any sooner than 4-6 weeks out is based on theories. Maybe in 5-10 years, the advice will be different. But in the meantime, knowing what we know now, I would be very leery of advice to eat solid food any sooner than 4-6 weeks out and I'd be a bit skeptical of advice to wait any longer than that. We do know about how long it takes for our insides to heal and for most people that's 4-6 weeks, not 2 weeks and not 2 months.

I have an idea where people's pictures morph from their highest weight until their lowest. I think that would be inspirational.

Hey, I have to go away for a while. I've got shoulder problems and carpel tunnel so my doctor convinced me to go cold turkey on all non-work computer use. I should be back by summer, I think. Assuming the PT works, of course. And no matter what, I'll be back in the Fall right before I get my band. Have fun without me, gals!

Sigh. My doctor says my shoulder will never get better if I keep going online all the time. But how can I post that I hate people who post just to post if I can't post?!

Everyone is different. Which surgeon do you think would be more motivating to you? Personally, doc #1 sounds like my idea of the PERFECT surgeon -- fun and easygoing about the stuff that doesn't matter but strict about the stuff that does -- like the pre- and post-op diet, plus very experienced. But that's me. Other people might be driven crazy by him. Which one did you like better? Which one are you more confident will do a good job? Those aren't questions the rest of us can answer.

I don't buy this. How many people post in the "why are you fat?" thread about their parents getting on them about their weight as youngsters and how that actually made it worse? Plenty! I started getting nagged about my weight at about 8 or 9. At that point, I wasn't even technically overweight, but had gotten pudgy as part of the start of puberty. My family nagged and nagged and made me feel so bad that that I went on a diet at 13 starting me on a lifetime of yo-yo dieting. According to you, my mom was caring and doing the right thing, but I found being picked on about every morsel I put into my mouth and being denied food when I was in pain from hunger to be pretty abusive. Diet's *don't* work. We don't really understand what causes obesity. We don't really understand what turns it around. Until we do, we can't say that these kids wouldn't be fat no matter what the mom did. When my dd eats, it doesn't matter how much I put on her plate -- when she's done, she's done and that's it. I could serve her 4 eggs for breakfast but I'd be lucky if she ate one of them. Plenty of parents when faced with overweight kids have cut back on their food and only served healthy food only to have their kids sneak junk food and extra servings at every opportunity. The government needs to worry about kids who are being beaten and sexual abused and starved and stop trying to get every family to conform to their own narrow ideas of how families should be.