Sunta

I find that people take phrases and use them for their own purpose. Leatha, please please tell me that you realize that this is exactly what the Christian right does when it comes to homosexuality. Please.

I'm amazed that more Christians don't think Bush is the anti-Christ, being that he has so many qualities of the Anti-Christ.

Good point Hunnybun. It amazes me the complete ignorance of American History that runs through the Christian right. The entire purpose of establishing America was to get away from being forced to live under the tyranny of religion. That's why Thomas Jefferson wrote in his bill that our civil rights shall not be affected by religion. How has this idea disappeared from our government? It's simply mind boggling.

It seems Carol that you're unfamiliar with the US constitution, and with the Bill that was the precursor to the First ammendment, designed to provided freedom of and freedom from, religion. Therefor, I am posting a few sections of it here. A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom By: Thomas Jefferson That our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right; that it tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing, with a monopoly of worldly honours and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous falacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment, and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own; WE, the General Assembly of Virginia, do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities. Now what about this do you not understand??????????????????????

if you believe in God and know Him, you know He belongs in every part of our lives. Not just the ones people what to place him in, it is His choice, not ours. This is not what the constitution of the United States of American says. If you want to live in a theocracy, perhaps you would be more comfortable in Iran or Saudi Arabia, both of which espouse what you believe.

I just want to say it makes me so so so sad to think there are people out there who strongly desire to experience same-sex love, but because of their religious beliefs, they haven't. If there is anyone out there like that reading this thread, who really desires to experience same-sex love, but feels they must abstain due to religous reasons, please know my heart goes out to you because your soul will just never be full in the way that it could be, romantically. Yes, I'm sure that God does satisfy the soul in a certain and very profound and powerful way for some people, but in terms of human, romantic, sexual interaction, same-sex love (for those who are Gay or bisexual) fills the soul and spirit like no other kind of interaction. I feel so bad for people who repress their true feelings because of religious reasons. I know God creates/loves Gay people, and that it's a normal and natural variation of the human sexual animal. I'm sure this evangelical leader is feeling tremendous pain and hurt in his soul right now, because he is Gay and yet he truly believes that it's a sin to be Gay. It's so sad that I almost feel bad for him (but not quite, since he has greatly influenced legislature in a negative way; he consults with president Bush every week!) It always seems to me that the strongest advocates against Gay marriage usually turn out to be Gay themselves. In 100 years when all of this is a memory and Gays are marrying every day, they'll look back and pity those that never lived up to their full potential with a true romantic soul mate.

Besides, you know this is the reaction you were looking for when you started this thread, you didn't honestly believe everyone aggreed with you. Did you? Oh nooooo, I thought it would be a big debate for sure. But I want people to come on and debate, not just down the thread as a whole, you know? I now understand you didn't realize what forum it was, and that's fine.

Marriage is only santified through God. One Man, One Women PERIOD Carol, what exactly is it about the consitution that you don't understand? Church (God) and state are seperate. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? People's belief in God should not inform our laws. There are people in the US who believe in different dieties than the one discussed in the bible, and there are people who don't believe in God. Civil union is a civil right, and one that everyone is entitled to by being a US citizen. Every adult human, who has the ability of consent, should have the right to form a civil union with whoever they want. It has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. No one has the right to let their God inform our legislature. PERIOD.

Wow, I come to this site to get support for my weight issues and get this crappy thread. I obviously don't support the views here, but is this the site for this? I guess you all will be more happy when we become a democrat controled socialist state. Good luck with all that!! Wait... now WHY are you on the "Rants and Raves" forum??? Could you enlighten me? If you don't want to rant and rave, then you can stay on the forums that aren't for ranting and raving. And while you're at it, it would be awesome if you could be honest about your opinion instead of using some excuse like "this is supposed to be for weight loss support". Why don't you tell everyone how great you think Bush is, since that's your real agenda? It would also be awesome if you didn't refer to my thread as "crappy".

Also, I would HOPE that people who are undecided would decide on issues and stances of the politians that are running, not anyone else. Oh my goodness, so would I! But you know, people have a hard time thinking for themselves sometimes, examining an issue, a cause, or a person independently.

I really thought that not drinking would be the hardest rule, but actually it turned out to be the easiest. There is a mental component to being compliant. After you go through the surgery it's just somehow easier to obey the rules. Also, when you actually have the band, you're eating much tinier portions and are thus alot less thirsty! It's easy to not drink when you eat half a sandwich total. It's the second half that would make me really thirsty. You'll see when you eat such small portions it's alot easier.

Are you all so afraid of the outcome of the upcoming elections Actually, yes, I am totally terrified. I'm being serious.

He SUCKS to the HIGHEST level of SUCKING, I have never seen a president that talks or acts like him. He is too quick to get angry and it results in the killing of our sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, grandchildren. I guess they thought he would do what his dad didnt I cant wait until he leaves the office His wife looks like a thunder cat reject!!! HAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHA! ROFL!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHA! I know I am! But you know, I'm in a fiesty fiery mood today and I just can't help it!

When I read the news this morning about that evangelical pastor soliciting male prositutes, at first I thought it was funny and I couldn't stop laughing. But then, I started getting really really angry. This person is responsiblle for 30 million people thinking being Gay is a sin. He is powerful. Very powerful. He has probably influenced many people's opinions and maybe even some laws. This is the kind of thing that infuriates me so much. The blatent hypocrasy that runs rampant through these evangelical organizations. When will these people start WAKING UP and realizing that being Gay is a natural, normal human sexual behavior for some people? I know that even when their very own spiritual leader participates in Gay activity, it will never change their mind, never make them question for an instant that it's still a "sin." They'll never think "gee, maybe if even this guy does it, it could be so prevelant in the population that it might a normal variation of human sexual behavior." No, that would require too much actual thought. I wonder if they think that dolphins that engage in Gay sex are also an "aberration"? Or do they realize that it's a normal part of sexual behavior within the animal kingdom? Of course many other animals also engage in Gay behavior. The animal kingdom includes human beings... or wait! I forgot! Alot of these people don't believe in science. I hope this guy gets everything that's coming to him.

Carlene, there's a movie coming out about firefighters who pose as Gay to receive same-sex partner benefits offered by their company. It's a comedy but I forget who stars in it. It looks pretty hilarious though. I agree with you, and I think many of the current laws need to be revised to be more inclusive of people in special circumstances.

1. Evangelicals using the bible to condemn Gay marriage but ignore many of the other teachings: hypocritical 2. Christians professing to follow Jesus but then judging and putting down others: hypocritical 3. The top evangelical leader who crusades against Gay marriage turning out to be Gay himself: priceless

No I am not prejudiced. No I don't discriminate. Not even against people who want to tell me who I can and can't marry. I would never discriminate against someone based on race, religion, beliefs, etc.

It's interesting that my questions are just ignored or taken as "mockery". I am certainly not mocking anything. But I am certainly confused. I don't understand how one line of one paragraph of the bible can be pulled out and used against Gay people, when the other lines of the very same paragraph are ignored. But to even question this is "mockery"? Please undersand, I see the denial of Gay people's ability to marry to be an extreme, unconscionable, and egregious violation of human rights. I view it to be as extreme and horrible as denying people of different races to marry. I see it as a violation of a fundamental human right. I view it to be as disturbing and infuriating as segregation. Even more so because it's still going on. And the reason for it, is taken from a few lines of a text that has hundreds of, I'm sorry, but bizarre, archaic, non-applicible rules. and because of these few lines, taken from a text that also contains other extreme and crazy rules, millions of Americans are being denied their fundamental rights. And to even question this, is viewed as "mocking" the bible. Or the other answer is "you have to have faith or it doesn't make sense." I'm sorry, but I am a thinking person. Someone who doesn't just blindly follow what I've been brainwashed into believing. I question, I debate, I think, I wonder. I'm open to all possibilities. This issue makes me more furious than anyone can possibly imagine, but of course I try to be respectful of everyone's religious beliefs, and I really do respect everyone's beliefs, but it does make me angry, very angry, when those beliefs strip me of my rights.

Can anyone tell me why all those weird things are in my post? ARRRGGH God must be smiting me!!!

<P>So Carol let me get this straight. You're saying that the Old Testament no longer applies and that the New Testament is the one that applies and that is the one you must follow, right?</P> <P> </P> <P>And you have to follow God's word, and everything in the New Testament was handed down by God, right?</P> <P> </P> <P>So then according to that argument, you must also do/believe the following:</P> <P> </P> <P>Women must remain silent in church. Do you remain silent in church?</P> <P> </P> <P>You must cover your head, or if you don't you must cut your hair. This one is easy to carry out so I'll assume you abide by this one.</P> <P> </P> <P>Women must not teach or have authority over men. I'll assume that you're busy campaiging against female teachers, is that right?</P> <P> </P> <P>And according to Corinthians, not only will Gays not go to heaven, but neither will people who masturbate. Goodness gracious, I sure you hope you don't do <EM>that</EM>! And since people who covet and/or get drunk will never go to heaven either, I'll assume you've never done either of those.</P> <P> </P> <P>And why isn't George Bush out campaigning against masturbation and female teachers??? </P> <P> </P> <P>Do you see how that just doesn't make any sense? If you site one word out of one line of a paragraph in Corinthians and throw the rest away, how does that make any kind of sense whatsoever?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

If anyone could logically explain to me how it's fine to quote the bible about the section where it condemns Gays, but to ignore the sections that talk about things like owning slaves, etc., I would be fascinated to learn how that is possible. Because to me, the part about condemning Gays and the part about owning slaves are equally rediculous. What makes one line of the bible totally enforcable and another line of the bible "not applicable to today"? If the bible is "scripted by God", then wouldn't each passage have to be taken literally? I just am sooo confused as to why certain phrases are taken literally while others are not. If one "has to follow the word of God", then wouldn't one also have to follow each and every word? To those of you that quote this bible passage about homosexuality, is it even a possibility that just maybe, that passage is just as irrational and crazy as selling your daughter into slavery, not looking at a woman when she has her period, or executing someone who works on Sunday? Why are these things not applied today, but the Gay thing is? To those of you that quote the bible about homosexuality: Do you see how this contradiction (taking one thing literally but not everything) is totally and completely irrational? Now I'm angry with myself, because I really didn't want this thread to degenerate into a bible discussion, and yet I'm playing right into it.

I was feeling really great about myself because I'm down to a size 16/18, when I went shopping for tights. Now, I haven't worn stockings or tights in years because even the biggest sizes were too small for me, but I got up the courage to get some because I had a size 16 (!!!) dress I wanted to wear to meet my girlfriends for tea. There I was in the drug store, looking at the regular "queen" size stockings, which only fit up to 195 pounds (! I haven't been in onederland since I was a teenager! 195 is Queen size?). So then I grabbed the 1x size, and they fit up to 210 pounds. Well, to make a long story short, I was at the top end of the 3X size, the biggest size they had available!!! UGH!!!!!!!!! what a huge disappointment!!! How can I be wearing a size 16 dress yet a 3X stocking? I HATE stockings! The people who make up those sizes are ASSHOLES! There, I'm done ranting.

Just wanted to mention that my bosses at work are a lesbian couple who have been together for 14 years. They now have an adorable baby daughter and are a very loving family. Just the thought that someone would say that they "threaten the institution of marriage" makes me so angry. It literally just makes me cry that they are not allowed to get married, and I bet that anyone who knew them would feel the exact same way, Christian or not. They are really lovely people. I wonder sometimes if maybe people who are against Gay marriage because of the bible, if they are really close to anyone who is Gay. I don't mean having a casual aquaintance, but really being super close to someone that's Gay. Because I just can't imagine looking at close friends or family members who you love, and seeing the beautiful love they have for their partner and child, and saying "you should not be allowed to get married and being Gay is wrong". I just can't imagine that at all. When I look at my bosses, who I have known for many years (I'm friends with them too) and I see their lovely family, just the thought that they are not allowed to marry, it kills me. It's just so unfair. I wish that everyone who is against Gay marriage could get to know people like them.

My point was that if you take every passage literally, the Bible condemns all kinds of things - not just homosexuality. And if a gay relationship is wrong because the New Testament says it is, then it's equally wrong for a woman to cut her hair, or divorce her husband, or speak her mind. Whatever Lord anyone wants to praise, praise the Lord for Carlene.