Wheetsin

^ It's pre-digested collagen Protein. Collagen protein is pretty much crap, unfortunately. ETA (because that's a harsh statement unless you know why)... There's a scale used to rank the quality of different Proteins. It's called the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, or PDCAAS. I've posted on it before, but can't find it now, was going to link it. It rates proteins on a 0 - 1 scale with 0 being low. Whey protein isolates (IMO the 2nd best type of protein) is a 1, as are soy proteins and milk proteins. Collagen proteins are a 0, so no value at all (they contain no tryptophan, one of our essential amino acids). They're often derived from junk animals skins & tissues that aren't even worthy of dog food processors.

In all honesty, all I ever really want is a big glass of ice Water. That's all I ever have the urge for, anyway. I'm not having problems with vomiting or nausea, I just have no appetite for most other things (I can eat them, I just don't want to). I enjoy them while I'm eating them, I just have no compulsion to get started. I'm about 5 weeks post-op and was able to get my Protein in yesterday without a Protein Drink. I'm trying to today as well. But it has taken fairly steady eating of high protein food (in my case, Maguro sashimi @ 7gm per ounce). You actually don't need to drink your protein - protein drinks aren't required, just the protein itself. Can you piece together enough Snacks + meals to get your protein count in naturally? (I could not if it weren't for the sashimi, and I literally ate it for every meal yesterday, but as much as I love it I don't see eating it at every meal long-term). 30gm in 2oz sounds way too good to be true, I'll have to check those out.

Congratulations! RE: saved money - I told DH that since the surgery would've cost about $13K, but I got my denial reversed, I sort of saved us $13K, so it was kind of mine to do as I wished with. I think that's perfect logic, no?

Green swollen vein sounds like a varicose vein. They can pop up quickly, and be quite painful. I had two popup within a few days when I was pregnant. Here's what my mom's leg looked like with her DVT. (NOT her actual leg, it's a borrowed pic): Here's an idea what my SVT looks like. Again, not me nor my pic. See the circled area on the arm, how you can see a red streak? That's exactly what I had with all my SVT (I was getting them from a BCP).

Do you mean what you can see from the outside? I've only had superficial ones (SVT - superficial vein thrombophlebitis). At first the area is red and hot. Gradually I could see a red line forming under the skin (this was the vein, since mine were superficial). Very painful to touch/pressure of any kind. My mother has had multiple DVT (deep vein thrombosis). Her entire leg swelled and got red & hot. I'll see if I can find some representative pics...

My parents quit smoking quite successfully (dad still enjoys a cigar on their first fly fishing trip of the year). Mom had smoked since about 17, and dad since about 13, and they were about 45 when they finally quit. They're now upper mid-50s and still "clean." I don't remember how much they smoked, but it was more than a pack a day (each). I don't even know how many cigarettes are in a pack, so a guesstimate from me is worthless. Dad said he had cravings for a few weeks. He would chew licorice ropes when they got bad. Mom says she never had a craving after her quit date (with Zyban IIRC you continue to smoke for some period of time while taking the meds, but have a date on which you're supposed to quit, once the medicine is established in your system). All I know is that they tried everything - Patches, fake cigarettes that blew out Water vapor, cold turkey, step down programs, I think mom even tried hypnotherapy (desperation I guess). This was the only thing that ever worked for them. http://www.gsk.com/products/prescription-medicines/zyban.htm (I'm assuming it's still available)

You know how they have "guns for cash" programs aimed at getting guns off the street? I'm going to start a "scales for cash" foundation aimed at helping every weight obsessed person out there break up the toxic relationship. Everyone send me $5 so I can get rich and start the foundation.

Honestly, I would say just relax and wait it out. You're averaging about 9 1/2 lbs per month, which is better than the statistical expectation for VSG. Are you nearing your goal weight? It will become harder as you get there. A lot harder. Because proportionately, each pound is becoming a much, much greater percentage of your excess body weight. If close to goal, you might want to look at your BMR and compare it to your daily intake and see where you're at. And sometimes it's just a waiting game because our bodies simply will not sustain continuous fat loss if we give them any possible way to avoid it (and sometimes even if we don't).

Ghrelin has been pretty strongly linked to memory, learning and overall cognitive function. And Alzheimer's. (I work in the field of human performance science - lots of psychology, lots of systems thinking, and lots of other things that roll up into "making people better at what they do"... I have easy access to the research on this one and have been following it but it's still not a "hot topic" worthy of much investigation by the pros.) Hopefully the ghrelin we have left will be enough, or 50 years from now we're all gonna be skinny as hell, we just won't know who we are or how we got so skinny.

Protein drinks are a challenge for me. They weren't with my band but... that was then. Really any liquid thicker than water is a challenge. I can get about two sips in before I'm done for a good 15 - 30 minutes, gurgling the whole time. I vary brands, depending on the flavor that "sounds good" (sorry, I used to like them, now they're a drag). Currently I'm using: Premier RTD. What I really like about these is that they give 30gm protein in the same volume that most others give 17 - 20. Taste is OK. They leave my mouth feeling dry. I suually take a sip or two (they're very full), then put a pump of SF flavor in. Either coffee or salted caramel works well with this one. Syntrax Nectar in "Roadside Lemonade". 0 carbs, 24gm protein per scoop. I do a scoop and half + half a packet of SF lemonade drink mix. Alternates between tasting kinda gross, and pretty good. It's strange like that. This is the only powder that I can stand mixed with water. The others I mix with skim extra milk, or light soymilk. EAS carb advantEdge, vanilla & chocolate. These two are my go-to's when I want to doctor the flavor up and make one of my protein drink "treats". I bought one of those test tube looking protein things the other day. I know they're crap, but I'm curious. We'll see... haven't tried it yet. I've tried musclemilk. It's kinda crap protein, but more palettable than most RTDs I've tried. EAS carb advantEdge in strawberry. When served VERY cold, this is (IMO) the best tasting RTD. But like I said in the first bullet -- for the same volume, it gives 17gm vs. Premier's 30. Capacity is king right now, so Premier usually wins. ^ The EAS carb advantEdge RTDs are also the "lightest" protein drink, IMO. They're not much thicker than water, and don't "feel" much thicker. I can't say that for anything else except the Nectar.

I've been using a straw since day 3. My documentation says not to use them, but right below that it says "You can use them if they aren't causing you any problems." There's a lot of mixed info on why they should be avoided. Some people think they make you take in more, faster. For me, that's the exact opposite of true. My nutritionist things they make you take in excessive air (because the straw is full of air before you suck a Fluid through it, she reasons that air makes its way into your stomach). Well, mostpeople inhale right before they drink so what's the difference? (and if you had an "air build-up" of some kind... just open your mouth...) I hate drinking without straws. Oh, I've also heard that straws make you burp more (I'm guessing this is in line with the air-filled straw idea), and VSGers can't burp out the extra gas so it will stretch the pouch. This makes zero sense. If solid food comes back up because it won't fit, then I'm pretty sure air will too. And I certainly can burp...

Lots of people having it done, just a small percentage of which is reflected here. I had my revision surgery about 5 weeks ago. I didn't mind having the band, but it slipped and was not conducive to a healthy life (though I was given the option of keeping it.) The GERD alone was worth having it taken out. I will say that so far there are a few minor similarities: some of the sensations are similar. And having had the band, you're ahead on the behavioral changes around chewing, portion size, etc. In practice they're like night and day. My PsyD asked me to talk to him about the differences so that he could use the information to speak with other revisions. I pointed out some of the nicer differences such as: No "time of day" restrictions. With band I had a window around 2 - 5 when I could comfortably eat. Anything else was a guessing game. No food intolerances, so far (but I'm still just a sleeve pup). On the band I couldn't really do chips (which was OK, I don't really like chips) or raw nuts, mashed potatoes, or scrambled eggs. Didn't mind giving any of those up, but it's still the principle. No stoma to clear, so horrid pain when you can't ("PB"s hurt me like crazy) I can take pills! (PBed on a Tylenol once, PBed prednisone elixir out my nose once - OUCH) I can drink Water. Whenever I want! <- this got so old with the slipped band. I would have a certain sort of pressure when something was having a hard time clearing the prolapse. It would sometimes last for days. During those days, I couldn't reliably eat or drink anything. Sometimes I would be hungry, and just couldn't eat. I would be so thristy, and couldn't drink. I would have a killer headache, but couldn't swallow the pain killer. I haven't yet experienced vomiting or even nausea with my sleeve, so I don't know if these will change down the road, but right now (based on the info available to me) I would say the band seems preferable in these ways: "PBing" (let's face it, that's a load of crap) was mostly just thick saliva. Never vomit. Sleeve seems to be vomit. Yuck. When bandsters have to "PB" they can typically control it somewhat. If I knew I was going to yak, I could "control" it and make it to a bathroom. Except for the one time I was completely blocked. Seems that with the sleeve, it kinda just comes and you can't do much about it. It is reversible. Yeah, that's also a weakness, but it's one of the only things keeping the band as popular as it is. So far my weightloss with the band was a lot better, but I'm not even 2 mos out so we'll see. There's really nothing that logically supports that being the case, tho. I do dearly miss chugging fluids... None of that bottom list touches the top list, though.

That actually makes sense to me.

favoredone - we have similar core stats (highest, goal, etc.) My highest weight was about 385 (when I had my lapband). I got down to about 210. Up to 275 with a pregnancy. Down to 250 with a slipped band. Up to 290 through duration of slip. Up to 348 after band removal/while waiting for for sleeve. The best thing I ever did for myself was get rid of my scale. They're the most toxic friend we (or anyone trying to lose weight) can have. They almost mock us into a sick sort of dependent, bipolar relationship. What actual person would we ever tolerate that from?? And they're not good tools for measuring fat loss anyway, and fat loss is what matters. Weight scmeight. Have long hair? You way more. Have to poop? You weigh more. Ankles a little swollen from a day at the desk? You're going to weigh more. PMS? Weigh more. Humid? Weigh more. See where I'm going? I won't soapbox about this - again. I just HATE seeing what scles do to people. http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/33632-not-loosing-weight/page__p__294501#entry294501

Hehe, I should have added that my program WANTS me to be doing a lot of things that I'm just not doing. I can't. So soon post-op (as you), I just lumped everything as a recommendation. I've only once been able to hit their Protein counts, yesterday, because I ate sashimi for every meal/snack. I can finally meet Fluid intake goals, after more than 5 weeks. I still haven't found a way to truly work in a real exercise program, other than walking at lunch, and still get family time (working on that one tho). I've pooped 4x since surgery on 3/27. TMI - but "they want" me pooping at least every 3 days -- some things we just can't control, you know? Whatever you're struggling with now, will get better and easier. Do the best you can, and see "what they want" as goals.

Well... are you happily married? j/k I missed the flirting gene, I think. I think ppl are just being nice. I don't think I will ever recognize flirting, no matter how in-your-face it is. And I will never EVER assume any interaction is flirting, I don't think. I've had other people tell me someone was flirting with me and I really don't see it... I just thought they were being nice, or it was a coincidence or something. Most of my friends are guys. I relate better to men than women. So maybe I'm just too influenced by the male inppropriateness of everyday things. I don't know. And on the flip side, I've been "just being nice" with guys and had their wives get defensive, or I've been asked, "Are you flirting with me?" when to me, it was just meaningless joking around. Advice - maybe just learn to smile and point at your wedding ring. :ph34r:

If you're comfortable PMing me your address I can send you one of my strawberries. I buy 3 bottles at time - I think that gives me 300 something vitamins... I won't miss 1.

I haven't tried them yet, they scare me a bit. I've been tempted to try a poached egg, or soft boiled. You might want to try a soft egg (e.g. soft boiled, over easy, etc.) How they're cooked changes the difficulty in digesting them. Hard boiled eggs and omlettes are among the harder forms. A soft egg will probably take 60 - 90 minutes to clear the stomach (well, a normal stomach, anyway) whereas a hard boiled egg can take 3+ hours. (But digestion continues well into the intestines.) Old v. fresh makes a difference too. HTH

Swimmer brought up a good distinction. I had assumed the taste/texture was making you sick. Is it that you have a hard time swallowing them, or that once they're down, they are making you sick?

There are lots of threads here about that exact comment. I personally really don't get it (neither the sense of the comment, nor the sometimes venomous responses to it). If it is, so what? Is there anything wrong with doing things the easy way? I have a lawn service and a cleaning lady, so I'm pretty screwed if so! Ask him what his point is, and why it matters. Is your weightloss only valid if done through a method that he considers the hard way? I just really, really don't get it. But I'm guessing that's not the real message he wants to convey. Is he scared? Have you talked about it? Lots of men aren't great emotional beings. Their fears usually come out in other forms like irritation, anger or aggression. Have him really sit down with you and talk to you about what's bugging him. When I had my lapband in 2006 my husband was terrified something would happen to take me away from him. When I started talking about a sleeve revision, he was like, "As long as it's not bypass. You will not get that butchery done." (He's not controlling, he was just adamant in his position.) He can't stand to see me hurting. And about 2 or 3 weeks before my surgery, his mood shifted. He was withdrawn, not playful, and very short. We're normally very affectionate, playful and teasing -- but he was just being an @ss. And I knew it was his fear/anxiety. It's counterintuitive, but what he was expressing was virtually the opposite of the feelings he was trying to deal with. He was with me every step of the way (except for when my IV debaucle almost made him pass out), and now he is fine (though anytime I say "ow" or "gasp" - he's like what's wrong, do you have a leak? should it take you to the er? i can call your surgeon... get in the car we're going to the er....)

I was really anxious about this. In fact, it was easily my single biggest source of anxiety. I expected anything from sheer agony to some indescribable bizarre sensation. In complete honesty - I felt nothing. I was laying in the bed and made DH squeeze my hand. Nurse tells me she's going to pull it out, it will be over before I can count to 3. I say ok, start squeezing... and nothing, so I look up and it's out. It felt like maybe she barely touched me with a cotton ball. I was so relieved!

Not all chewable bariatrics taste the same. The best tasting one I've found (I was previously banded for 6 years, so I've tried a LOT) also happens to have (IMO) the best nutritional status. The brand is "Bariatric Fusion" - they come in a few flavors and I think strawberry is by far the best. (Website says they now have orange, strawberry, tropical, wild cherry, mixed berry - I've only tasted orange & strawberry). I don't know why Vitamin companies always want to flavor everything orange, uck. The strawberry ones are fairly sweet, smooth tasting, and don't leave an aftertaste -- and don't feel like you're sucking on chalk. The orange ones kinda do (they taste similar to Centrum chewables). They also easily chew down to nothing. These contain everything, no add'l supplements needed. Except Fiber, sometimes. I think if you email them they will send free samples.

Gas pain shouldn't be centralized around the esophagus (the phrenic nerve terminates in the lower neck, which is why we feel the gas pain usually in the shoulder/collar bone area). It usually causes a fairly sharp pain, or lasting dull but very noticeable pain, and can sometimes feel like a "pinched nerve." The CO2 can also irritate the peritoneal tissue, but being more than a few days out I wouldn't think you would still be suffering from that irritation. Especially if it is definitely related to something you ate, I'm still thinking esophagus or something with your stomach that is causing a referred pain in the region of the esophagus. If it comes and goes you might be having spasms - they can hurt a lot. I'm not a Dr, that's just my best guess. Def. call your doc and mention it, and make sure you mention that it seems related to eating (and specifically applesauce). If it is a spasm of some kind there are meds that can take care of it. If it is a referred pain, he/she can help you troubleshoot the cause. FWIW, when I had my lapband AND so far with my sleeve, the food that causes me the most pain is what I would call "slimy fruits" - applesauce, pureed fruit, cooked strawberries, etc. I had to take some additional meds my first 3 weeks post-op and for one of them, I was told to crush it and mix it with some canned, pureed or "well cooked" fruit. Ouch! Felt just like the days of having something "stuck" with my lapband, which could often get near agonizing. FWIW, when I have esophageal pain, it starts in the chest/shoulderblades, and the refers to either side of my belly button, my hips, and eventually my spine. Referred pains are no fun. So if during one of your "attacks" you notice pain in strange places, it's not necessarily cause for alarm.

My surgeon's clinic gives you a card when you have your pre-op meeting (as well as a no blind NG sticker to put on the back of your driver's license). I also got a card 6 years ago when I had my band. I've prompty thrown them away both times. I will either order a regular meal and just eat what I want and have leftovers, or a Soup or a la carte side, or just a drink. Or I will order an entree and take the meat, while letting DH or DD pick my sides for themselves. A few times I've ordered off the kids menu (a few places actualy have healthy kids items) or senior menu. I just tell the wait staff I'm either not very hungry, or that I'm recovering from surgery. I (personally, for me -- I don't care what others do) kind of disagree with the mentality of the discount card, which is why I personally chose to toss it. I never offered to pay more when I was eating more, or for extra dressing or whatever, and I'm not going to ask someone to let me pay less because I'm now eating less. I don't do buffets, they pretty much gross me out now. And if I did, I would pay whatever the price was.

How far post-op are you? And are the pains there all the time, or at mealtime, or...? Between shoulderblades and chest is the "classic" pain zone for the esophagus, so I'm wondering if it's more related to how/what you're eating, and how your body is pushing the food down, than gas.