Wheetsin

Yeah, huge. A circle is 2 dimensional, like a photograph. A sphere is 3 dimensional, like a person. I think the difference between something that has 2 dimensions and something that has 3 is enormous. But you evaded the question. Do you believe the earth is a circle, as stated in the bible? Yes, I have looked. But it's interesting how you're somehow qualified to tell me what I have done or not done. How exactly is that? If I hadn't looked, I would not have been able to confirm references to local floods. Please, point me to some evidence. I've been unsuccessful in my searches. (And BTW, any climatologist or most 7th graders could tell you that if a worldwide ocean just somehow inexplicably "went back to the atmosphere", it would come right back down as rain, and be another worldwide ocean). No sir, cud is specifically material brought up from the rumen. And the bible is literal, so either rabbits have rumen and can produce cud, or it is not literal and cud could mean anything brought back up from the digestive track. It can't be both ways if only one meaning is literally right. So which do you believe it is? Do you believe rabits have rumen, or do you believe there is room for interpretation about what "cud" means? (And yes, I have raised rabbits. Holland Lops to be specific. And not a single one of them had rumen or produced cud.) I didn't say "horse". If you mean give you, it is Judges 3:22. But why would you have to go see? If the bible is literal, and it says dirt, then surely it's dirt, no? Oh, is that where context comes into play? Context that effects interpretation? I didn't pull verses out of context, I quoted them. I took them from a book and typed them on my screen. And if the words are meant literally, they should survive the transplant. And if the word is literal, why does context matter? I'm not trying to "prove you wrong", that has already been done. Again, you make assumptions about my actions. I'm trying to understand from whence your perspective comes. You are the first person I've encountered who is so adamanat that they are correct, and held viewpoints so divergent from most of the christians I know. If I have a better understanding of what your beliefs are, and what literality you believe to be true or not true, then I am better able to engage in the conversation, versus making assumptions, as you are doing. Ron Cusano - let me ask... why is this an "us vs. them" situation for you? Why do you assume anyone is trying to prove you wrong? Is someone who asks you whether or not you believe what's written in the bible somehow an inherent enemy to you?

If literal is the only interpretation of the bible, then: IS 40:22. The earth is a circle. You believe the earth is a circle, and not a sphere? GE 7:19-20. The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (that's more than twenty feet) above the highest mountains. Breaking that out, that's a rain rate of 6 inches per minute required to cover the entire earth with an ocean 5 miles deep. 5 miles deep would be required to have placed Mt. Everest (at its last current height, let alone it's height that long ago) under 20 feet of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Where did all the water go? How come we see no geological signs of a worldwide flood, only isolated floodings? GE 32:24-30. God wrestles Jacob and wins by injuring Jacob's hip. You believe god wrestles? LE 11:6. You believe rabbits chew cud? LE 14:33-57. You believe that houses can have leprosy, and that the cure for this requires the blood of a bird? "Ehud ... took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out." You believe this literally happened? 2CH 7:5, 8-9. Solomon sacrificed 22k oxen and 120k in one week. That breaks out to more than 14 animals per minute (something like 4 seconds per animal), for seven straight days. You believe this happened? IS 30:26. The moon will someday be as bright as the sun now is. So you believe that a dead planet will once again come to life?

If you believe that the bible should be read literally, then do you believe these things should occur? You believe that adulterers should be stoned, and that a husband having sex with his wife during her period is an executable offense?: You talk about "literal" on one hand, and "context" on the other. Doesn't "context" imply room for interpretation? You've been asked several times what makes your interpretation "right", and anyone who reads the bible differently from you "wrong". Have you answered that question?

Ooh good ideas guys! DH and I do several things for her already that I should have included - because they're in line with some of your gift ideas. We've bought her a computer, and pay for her monthly internet access. We give her some money every month (she has no idea about this, it's auto deposited into her account, and she's not savvy when it comes to banking, so she has no idea it isn't just hers from somewhere). We also pay her cable bill. Ok, technically my parents pay her bills, but we fund the cable bill and my parents just tell her they paid it from her account. We also have her on our cell phone plan (she doesn't know about this either), so no worries about long distance calls. (We're the only people she'd call that don't live in a local area code). She does drive, but only in her own city limits, during the day, and when there's no snow on the ground. In any of those conditions she will only go out if someone she knows comes and picks her up. Anymore, she only goes to very familiar routes - church, grocery store, etc. Her mental health is fading and a few times when she has deviated into newer areas she has called someone crying b/c she's lost (you can get from one end of her town to the other in 15 minutes, so you're never that far from anywhere else). I wish I had time to get a movie together before the party. But that's a GREAT idea for next year. I had also considered pre-paid gas cards. Too practical? Maybe combined with a spa day? (And I agree about having company - she'd have to, b/c she wouldn't drive to a "real" city on her own...she lives in a very small town with only chain haircut stops, and the occasional "rent a booth" mom & pop operations).

My husband is that guy. Met and married when I was thin. As I ballooned up he never said anything about it. With my 20/20 hindsight I wish he would have. Suspicion wasn't an issue before we were married b/c I wasn't fat then. If I were single & dating now, and met a guy who said that, I'd like to think I'd know whether or not he was sincere. If I detected insincerity, I would mosty definitely be suspicious. Lots of potential for cruel ulterior motives there.

Ayuh, that was me. Nurse Manson and Nurse Infection, as my husband now refers to them. :doh:

I'm not a guy but I act like one and I'd do Angelina Jolie, so I'll post. The penis doesn't actually grow longer when you lose weight, although a LOT of men think (hope) it does. What happens is that the rest of the body "retreats" and makes it seem longer, and actually can expose more of the shaft. As an analogy, imagine pushing a straw down into a pillow. It's going to get a little "buried", and you're only going to see part of it. Now remove part of the pillow's stuffing, and - poof - from the outside it looks like your straw got longer, when in reality it's been the same length the entire time, it's just more exposed now. Not that I'd ever condone comparing a man to a straw.

Does anyone else remember a show called Bumpter Stumpers, where the strategy was to figure out as many plates as possible? (Or something like that).

Ok, apologies, but I'm going to veer OT for a second, because I'm truly curious about this. When you dream, are you fat or thin in your dreams? And when you picture yourself (e.g. put on an outfit and picture what it looks like), are you picturing fat you or thin you? I ask because - in my dreams, I'm always thin me, never fat me. And when I put something on and picture it, it's often thin me that I picture, at least for a second. And that's part of what makes this all such a miserable reality check... I can get it in my head that I look one way, and then see a picture of bit of video that acts like a slap in the face.

What do you mean they are the law in most states?

My initial goal is anything under 200 lbs. My eventual goal is 180. When I last weighed 180, I wanted to lose about 30 lbs, which seemed like an impossibly large amount of weight. When I see pictures of myself at 180, I'm like "What was I thinking?! I look fine!" I'm tall, just a smidge under 6 foot, and I know that at ~240 I wear a loose 20/taut 18. Or I did, at least. I would be thrilled with a 12 or 14, which for me is about 180. And 180 is the last weight that I felt comfortable about myself at. The bulk of my weight now is sitting in the area below my waist and above my knees. Hell, I can feel my vertebra now, and my shoulderblades, and have the "sunken stomach" look when I lay down -- which is just creepy. But that mid-section weight isn't budging. So I've become rather disproportionate -- about 2 or 3 sizes smaller on top than on bottom. I joke that I have a "diamond" shape (versus pear or ball), but it's really not much of a joke. And it's weird, because the one time I gained weight & lost it all I gained proportionately, and lost it proportionately. And when I gained before going on Atkins I gained proportionately and then lost proportionately. But this damn time my hips aren't going anywhere.

Neal, it's interesting you say that. Through my local support group I've met two other women close to my age that "hang out" on occasion. Two of us were normal weight until later in life. The other was overweight for most of her life. We've had conversations about how the weightloss experience is different for us... from our perspective, we're getting our bodies back. We know what we *should* look like, we just haven't seen it in a while. From the perspective of the third lady, she's never seen herself thin. She has no idea what her "average" body looks like - whether or not she's hippy, the shape of her legs, what styles of clothing compliment her, etc. When you're wearing women's clothing as a child, I can see how you'd never know these things, and that has to be more than a little strange.

Lisa, if you happen to have lots of spare time laying around, I thought you might find these passages interesting. A lot of them echo what you've been saying. From Reverend Mel White: I've spent more than 50 years reading, studying, memorizing, preaching, and teaching from the sacred texts. I earned my master's and doctoral degrees at a conservative biblical seminary to better equip myself to "rightly divide the word of truth." I learned Hebrew and Greek to gain a better understanding of the original words of the biblical texts. I studied the lives and times of the biblical authors to help me know what they were saying in their day so I could better apply it to my own.

I love watching hockey, but I don't know much about it. Much more exciting than our three big ones here. Is curling big there?

I've heard so many different takes on this, and know what my surgeon does... thought it would be interesting to gather all this information in one place.

In general it is true. The man's metabolism (especially on low carb diets, for whatever reason) and a few other factors lend themselves very well to weightloss.

I don't know a lot about it, it isn't my cup of tea, nor anyone in my family, but it's some kind of car racing where they drive around in an oval for - no idea - either some number of laps or some length of time. I have no idea what kinds of cars, or what fuel, or however it is that the cars are classed. I've heard about two names, one is a girl who does commercials (I've seen her commercials, but couldn't tell you what her name is) and the other is a guy that died named Dale Earnhart (sp)... the only reason I know that is because lots of cars around have stickers with his name and "3" on them, which has something to do with him or how he died. Ayup, that's about the extent of what I know. Here is a wiki for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR

You've gotten several great answers already. Why after a fill, do we need another and another? For a few reasons. For one, restriction is rarely reached in one fill, and the goal is not "fill" it's "restriction". Another reason is shrinking of the fat around the organs. There's also suspicion of osmosis, etc. over time. Does the actual stomache shrink as we lose weight? OR Do we stretch it as we eat more and more solid foods? The actual stomach can shrink, which is really more link it returning to its normal size. Many obese people have "stretched" their stomachs with the large quanitities of food they have eaten. As wuanitites are decreased and the stomach is no longer being stretched, it's able to shrink back down. There's really not much connection between your two questions, no "or"... if you eat more and more, your stomach can expand to accomodate, but any connection to losing weight is indirect. The stomach can grow or shrink with weight staying constant. Why not just one fill and thats that? I understand after the surgery, theres a lot of swelling and they would have to do a fill after all the swelling goes down. BUT why a fill and a fill and a fill? I don't understand how it works?? Because one fill is rarely enough to reach restriction. Many surgeons like to go slow. There's no "magic" number at which people reach restriction, so it's a constant tuning process -- too loose, too tight, a little too loose, now a little too tight... Hope this helps.

I hate personalized plates I can't figure out. This one has bugged me for a while: KNTOBZ. Ken Tobe's? Kind to bees? And where my parents live there's a HVN CNT. Which a male friend of mine swears is not heaven sent, but instead... well, let's just say it would rhyme with heaving runt.

I have been a vegetarian, now I just don't eat red meat. A veggie diet is definitely doable. My diet still consists largely of tofu dishes, garden burgers, and beans.

I was born premature and was underweight as a kid. Average/lean (athelete) in school. Consistenyl gained about 10 lbs when sports weren't in season, and lost them as soon as they were. Started gaining in college after I was no longer able to play sports (accident). Had a hard time keeping weight off. Hit about 60 - 80lbs overweight and put myself on a strict self-prescribed diet & exercise plan, lost all the weight in about 5 months. Maintained the loss for about 6 months (about 9 years ago), then started gaining and never really stopped. Brief stint with Atkins brought me down to about 290, then over the next year I ballooned up to my high weight.

What is FIGJAM? I've from San Diego, so I'm accustomed to surfer brands. As you would be. But I see them here. And in Kansas, too. :paranoid

bug - how are you doing with liquids? The back pain is my "sure sign" that something is stuck and needs to come up. Up until then, there's a chance it will pass on its own. I was overfilled a few weeks ago. My surgeon's nurse's advice was that if I could keep liquids down, then give it a few days as there could be residual swelling from the fill -- but that if I could not keep liquids down, call for an unfill immediately. I did OK with foods the first few days, but in TINY quantities. Like an ounce, or less. Through a series of events I unfortunately got to the point where my own saliva couldn't pass. So if just a few bites of very soft foods are causing you to get stuck, absolutely engage your surgeon's advice. Trust me - you don't want to be where I was, it's no fun!

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: So many people are overcome by what an old grad psych professor of mine called so perfectly, "Stinkin' thinkin'".

Do you feel well enough to get out of the house yet? 2 days after my surgery I couldn't stand just laying (ok, reclining) there in the living room any longer, so I went to Target, leaned on the shopping cart, and browsed the store. It was sooo nice to get out of the house, and really did wonders for me. Did your surgeon give you any pain meds, and are you taking them? What hurst still? How about renting some good movies, or having some company over? Or other things that help the time pass... How long are you on liquids for?