Wheetsin

I never thought of "unpatriotic" as an insult. Green, unfortunately your entire point just flew over some heads.

I work a regular job but it's completely flexible. I can work from home if needed, leave when needed, split my day up in whatever way works for me. If I had a job where I was somehow tied to the business hours, or required to be in my office during the entire time - I don't know. Maybe they have weekend hours? I know my psychologist, dietician, etc. did. Or maybe just try to line up as many appts as possible, in a row, so one day can take care of 3 or 4 of them. *shrug* Good luck! When I was a child, my parents would tell me there are never enough hours in the day, but it took a very long time before I understood what they meant.

Not really. My pants are equal opportunity employers.

Anti Semitism in my pants.

I'm tight until around 12:30 - 1. I can do liquids, but solid food is pretty much out except for tiny, tiny bits. After that time, it's like I'm not even banded.

So you agree with the position that it is perhaps not best taken literally?

John 12:24 says "except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." If that is to be taken literally, how can it bring forth much fruit if it is dead? Matthew 13:31-32 states that "The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed... is the smallest of all seeds but when it is grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree." If we take that literally, what of all the seeds that are smaller than mustard seeds? And what about the fact that mustard is an herb, not a shrub? And that mustard seeds certainly don't grow into trees? John 12:21 states that "The same came therefore to Phillip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired of him..." Bethsaida was in the province of Gaulontinis, not the province of Galilee. And to borrow again...

Didn't you just say that you believe god makes himself known? Even to those without bibles? (No, I'm not quoting or putting words in anyone's mouth, I'm asking, because I don't recall off-hand and don't want to go back and search).

How the heck did I miss this thread? :paranoid

Jodie, earlier you mentioned that you don't have the money for counseling, then in the not so distant past alluded to a hundred dollar shopping spree at Wal-Mart because you were bored, if I remember correctly. Have you considered taking some of that shopping spree money, and getting the counseling instead? I really do think you would benefit from a good therapist, good being the operative word here.

I'm not necessarily looking for a scriptural answer. And I guess I disagree, because I think opinions are extremely valuable in discussions like this. "Proof" is for trying to prove people right or wrong. "Opinion" is for critical thinking and rationalizing, and great conversation.

BTW, my comments aren't directed at any one person or response. They're just some of the things one could consider in this discussion, that aren't necessarily brought up as much as they should be.

Then let me ask you what you would consider the most grevious acts. Is cannibalism included? Because we have people on our earth today who engage in cannibalism and do not consider it wrong. Per their conscience, it is a demonstration of honor. And adultery is a demonstration of respect for one's brother, or as payment for debt. Their conscience is dictated by what they have been taught. Whether they know the word "sin" or not is irrelevant.

So now, leaving the bible out of it - sin is defined by culture. This is why things that we find taboo other cultured find common place, and vice versa. There is no absolute when it comes to sin because it cannot be absolutely known or absolutely applied (as in without exception). Culture is conditioned, and in small societies rarely changes. Standalone societies as well as those integrated into larger ones. You aren't born with an inherent culture set (though some could argue that a culture with enough longevity could become ancestoral knowledge, but that's another thread), or an understanding of right and wrong. It's taught. The only thing separating any of us from any of the people who commit these taboos as commonplace is 1) our experiences and 2) our gentic capacity for the thought or action. This means that a child born into a culture where cannibalizing ones fallen enemy is a sign of heroism and manhood, is almost guaranteed to do the same as an adult, and teach the same to his children. Sin as a relative factor doesn't have much impact. I've often wondered - if the bible is divinely inspired, and god is perfect, why did god forget or neglect to cover this territory?

Then let's focus on "sin" for a second. Let's say these remote people somehow "should" know about god. How could they know what is or is not sin if they have no bible (or ability to read)? Murder, cannibalism, incest, rape, homosexuality, adultery, etc. are not sins in their culture, they are part of every day life and often integrated into their version of a justice system. How are they held accountable for their sin when they have no concept of sin? And how is their sin defined, when sin is largely a cultural context - given they have no record of how sin is defined biblically?

Thanks, ousooner. That's something I've always had a hard time grasping. We are inherently sinners, but only held accountable for our sins (in some teachings) once we reach a point of accountability. But obviously that could vary person to person. And as you mentioned, there are some who may never get there due to mental disabilites. And there are people on our earth for whom it's entirely possible to live a complete life, or at least complete to the point of accountability, and never hear of Jesus or god in any form. What of them? Can they be held spiritually accountable for not seeking salvation if they don't know it exists? Or if "the word" has never gotten to them?

So if they are automatically guilty of sin upon...conception, let's say (or insert state between conception and sentient life here) what happens to the fetus that dies in utero? Or during birth? Or say for the first few hours of life spent in the NICU, before being allowed visitors, let alone any means of salvation? Are they sent to hell by virtue of physically not being able to seek salvation?

How is it that a fetus, that isn't even to the point of sentience or cognition, has sinned? What sin has it committed?

Do you believe that the general public should sit and just "accept" whatever the president does, just because that person has that title?

I was so afraid of this when I had my surgery. The nurse had told me they leave it in until you pull it out, to make sure you're awake enough. When I woke up, the FIRST thing I had was see if I could feel the tube. I didn't, but I didn't trust myself to know what I was feeling, so I snuck my hand up and felt my mouth. It was out and I was RELIEVED!

I believe the "other staff" is part of who handles the insurance stuff, but I could be wrong. This part was the most frustrating part for me. I handed in my paperwork and didn't hear back, didn't hear back, didn't hear back... the paperwork said to call if we hadn't heard nything in three weeks so I called, and called again, and called again... leaving messages each time, of course - "Just want to know the status", "Your information said to call you so I am calling to see what's going on", "Hadn't heard back so I was just wondering if you needed anything else", etc. Weeks went by and I never heard back. It got to the point that I left a message telling them that because of their inability to respond to the numerous messages I had left, I wanted to know who I needed to talk to to get things in order for me to pick my medical records back up so that I could locate a different surgeon - one whose office was actually willing to call me back. Of course, I got a call about 3 hours after leaving that message. I believe that was in week 6 or 7.

Spellcheck is in the upper-right hand corner of the screen as you reply to a message.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make oh... a few pages ago. Context necessarily means that something is up for interpretation. One thing said in context A may not mean the same thing in context B. Therefore whatever was said is not literal. But unfortunately I was attacked personally (largely on incorrect assumptions), versus my point or opinion being attacked.

Ron Cusano, you're quick to point the "trying to twist things" finger, but people by and large ask the questions they do because they're curious and are trying to either understand more about religion, or understand your particular take on it. Or because something you say truly does not resonate with them, or seems to contradict something else they've encountered, and they would like to know the reasoning. Why can you not take questions at face value? For virtually this entire thread, you've appared to see questions as personal attacks or mockery, rather than searches for more information or understanding. No matter how sincere the people were in their questioning. Why is that?

When I was in the office I suggested to Billie that she bring in a plastic surgeon and she said it was something she planned to do in conjunction with the RNY group. Good to know what the date is. Surely they'd have to do that in the seminar room tho... I think the RNY group is quite large. (I don't know for sure, but a friend of mine had RNY with Dr. H... tho she quit going to group after two or three meetings because she didn't enjoy a certain someone). Robyn, what you said reminds me of something my mother said this weekend. "Even if you don't lose another pound, you're SOOO much better off than you were!" This is after my griping about the fact that I've lost 2 lbs in the last ... nearly 3 months. I don't even weigh anymore, because I know the scale won't show a loss, so why bother? Remember earlier on when I said I had to fight feelings of, "The band has done it's job, and I'm just not going to lose any more"? That's TOTALLY where I'm at now. Anyway point being, what you said is SOO right... thirty pounds is thirty pounds, and I'm with you on the numbers fixation... but just think of all the ways your life is changed now.