summerset

I do, but I don't mind. I don't mind the calories my supplements have. The fact that I don't have to choke down my supplements is well worth a few calories.

If it makes the difference between taking your supplements regularly and not taking them regularly because you have to choke them down every time you have to take them, the answer is: Holy Crap, yes!

My shoulder seems to be better, still not good but better. I still have that pain killer patch on. On sick leave for another week. How are you all doing? Everyone alright?

BMI <30

@Aggiemae Two users disagreed with you about pre-op waiting times and here you are whining about it on another thread. Being a little bit passive-aggressive here, huh? Get over it. *plonk*

@Aggiemae: Obviously you don't have that kind of information. Who would have thought?

Indeed, there is more support now. However, there is also way more post-op support than there ever used to be. In the earlier times of WLS the so called experts thought that it would be enough to perform the surgery and that's that. What changed in Germany over the years was that there is now organized post-op care. Regarding the pre-op requirements. From what I read on the boards it didn't change much. Even 16 years ago you had to prove that you took part in medically supervised programs, therapy and whatnot and that you "did everything else and failed". They now have a fancy name for it "multimodal concept" which includes nutritional counseling and exercise. However, even years and years ago you had to prove that you did these things. What makes a lot of people here focus so much on pre-op support (maybe I'm wrong, please correct me if that is the case) but totally seem to neglect the post-op support? I personally think the post-op support is way more important and I'm not only talking about the first year post-op. I'm talking about several years post-op.

Link to full paper?

I'd like to believe that as well. However, just because "everyone does it" doesn't mean it makes sense or that it is evidence based. By far it doesn't mean that it's evidence based. It just means that everyone does it for whatever reason. (Don't get me wrong, it also doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense until proven otherwise.) I don't believe in waiting periods until someone can really prove that it's a real benefit. I understand that people have to cope with the fact that they have to go through waiting periods or that they had to go through the waiting period of several months while their neighbor got approved within a few weeks. I had to cope with waiting periods myself in the past and had to jump through several hoops. IMO waiting periods are just good for insurance companies. In Germany people even get denied after jumping through all the hoops and the insurance companies count on the fact that only a few people go to court.

And I am sure a lot of them had to wait months for surgery and had to go through pre-op programs to get approved. Or is there any evidence they all had no or only short waiting periods?

Agreed. A lots of patients (the majority?) educate themselves about WLS before even making the first contact with a surgeon. I wonder if there is actual evidence (real evidence, not just personal opinion or some kind of gut feeling) that patients who've had waiting periods and pre-op programs and whatnot in general really do better after WLS.

Recipe!!

I'm still having some problems with that. Just because it's Rant & Raves doesn't mean "everything goes" - or does it?? It's one thing to rant & rave about whatever topic but I always get a sour feeling when the rant & rave is about "all of these stupid board members" (and lets face it: there are enough of these threads). I can't really put my finger on why I feel this difference but the later gives me a bad feeling. During my time on this board I've read lines like "I'd like to see some of these people publicly fail" or that "they didn't deserve surgery" and that just makes me want to scream out loud. It's disgusting. Even worse, it brings out the mean b**** in my personality. I've even caught myself thinking "I'd really like to see some of those smug, arrogant users fail in the long run. Maybe that will cure them of their superiority-complex! Pride before fall and being a few months or one or two years out give them still pretty much time to fail." All of these "lets bash stupid users" threads smack of "I'm a better WLS patient than you!" - reminds me of the alcoholic drinking only two bottles of wine a day acting superior towards the alcoholic who drinks two bottles of hard liquor a day. Add in the numerous posts of "good WLS patients" who are eager to post how strict they are following the rules and what really good girls/boys they are (or are going to follow the rules once they had surgery - LOL) and I can only shake my head. Or laugh out loud. Depends on my mood. --- Oh, and if someone thinks this rant of mine is out of place or something because he or she might not like what I've said: look at the section!

Oh, the vanilla chai Is tasty. I agree it's best mixed with plant milk.

I certainly can understand your frustration. I think I would feel the same.

I don't agree. According to the advertisements alcohol free beer is supposed to be tasting just like the real stuff. I also think we should all keep in mind that advertisement companies don't have our well-being in mind. Their goal is to sell products. Some stuff sells, some stuff doesn't sell. Sex sells for example. So obviously does luscious chocolate. I personally don't mind that Celebrate Calcium chews chocolate and caramel don't taste like 100% crap. I don't know who thinks something like this tastes "exactly like candy" or something. I don't really like them, but at least I'm taking them without having to gag. There must be something wrong with the taste buds of people who can't taste the difference. Same goes for milkshakes and Protein shakes. Someone already mentioned protein brownies. If people want to be purists they can be. I don't mind. I personally prefer supplements that don't taste like "oh my god I have to turn off my taste buds to be able to swallow them".

What I thought first. Then I thought that maybe I got their serving sizes wrong but obviously I didn't.

@@ShelterDog64 From I've read on the sales page it seems to be the sexiest Protein around. I'm a bit confused though. How can 30 g of protein only have about 60 kcal? 1 g of protein equals 4.2 kcals - so 30 g of protein should have about 120 kcal. Or did I get their serving sizes wrong?

@@ShelterDog64 I had to look up "splendor" in the dictionary and ... had to chuckle. Meh, I don't want to imagine how "Cheesecake Delight" might taste. I usually hate all the fruity tastes with the exception of above named "tropical tango" (Vega brand). I still have two samples of Ricotta-Yoghurt and Yoghurt Apricot lying around. Maybe I'll try mixing them up with some yoghurt.

I'm not sure what brands people on here are using. The three brands I use are not made for WLS patients specifically or for weight loss. Some of these have indeed fancy names, e. g. "tropical tango". I don't really mind it. I maybe have to chuckle a bit when reading these fancy names. I also don't think dessert like supplements are borderline offensive. One can always use a neutral powder.

Absolutely not. I found it more and more difficult to chug down the shakes, even though I found a brand I really like. Now the only way I find them tolerable is in hot coffee. So far that's a real keeper. As for milkshakes: I was never a friend of milkshakes, they're not a temptation for me.

Thanks for your answer. The pain is bad. I never had to take opioids for pain (luckily!), except for the first few hours after surgery, when I had a pump. I just napped for half an hour using a meditation app. Going to have some hot coffee now. I feel cold when I don't move.

Ladies (and maybe Gentlemen as well), will you let me whine a little bit? I'm still seriously bothered by this inflamed shoulder. This bursitis is more crippling than I expected it to be. May I say pain? Like ... PAIN? Today I got a pain killer patch from my GP so absorption will be guaranteed and I don't feel good about all of this. On Monday I have my next appointment at the orthopedist, either for starting the shock wave therapy (I have major calcifications) or for getting another cortisone shot, depending on how things develop during the weekend. I feel restless. I'm afraid I'm gaining weight (I don't have, just weighed myself) as my activity is near zero. I just realized how active I usually am. OTOH that feels quite good, OTOH it makes me feel a bit helpless right now as well. Have to stop typing now. Yup, that causes pain as well. It boils down to TV and reading.

Same here. We shouldn't count calories. I'm supposed to take in 100-120 g of protein daily (based on activity level) and match the water intake and take the supplements. Otherwise no special instructions.

Ah yes, but that doesn't mean that you're doomed if you haven't lost 80% or something like that of your EW in that period. You will continue to burn fat as long as you are in a calorie deficit.