Butterfly07

They don't say too much. My son says he understands logically & he remembers a great deal of the past issues, but emotionally he is hurting. He is much like me, in fact we often joke that we think & feel so much alike that he is my "mini-me". My daughter says something to the effect of "it's about time" and "I think you guys are crazy" but she too is having a bit of a hard time. I think that us trying to work it out, even though it was short-lived helped them a bit to adjust to the idea. I just keep in close contact with them both, continue to reinforce that this is between their father and I and they'll always have two parents who love them very much and that part will never change. I think they'll be better over time, as long as they realize that their parents are the same, just not married anymore. I'm hoping their ages help that.

PS - I moved back into my son's bedroom, sleeping in the same bed was creeping me out!

Update 12-1 10pm I haven't posted because I've been crazy busy at work and trying to deal with the few days of quiet before the storm I knew was coming, and has sort of arrived. After they came back at 9:30pm thanksgiving night I spoke to my son a few minutes and then he was back to the dorm. Work actually was good this week. The nasty e-mails & behavior re-started on tuesday I think and I just tried ignoring him. Today, since I work at my daughter's school, I got a call from one of her teachers telling me that for the second time lately she had left class without permisison and while the teacher wasn't going to report it, she wanted me to know. I had noticed that her grades were slipping a bit these last few weeks as well, so I pulled her from class and we chatted. I then (like a fool) tried to do the right thing and called him to tell him what had happended and what she and I had discussed. He then said something about not allowing her to go to a concert he had bought tickets for her birthday if her behavior kept up, and when I asked what day the concert was and what time they would be leaving and returning, I got blasted with a tirade about how he didn't ask me those things and I was accusing him of being a bad father (was not), and he could take her wherever & whenever he wanted & didn't have to report to me about it. I hung up as I didn't feel I needed to deal with that garbage & was at work. Later he e-mailed me that there is no law or parenting plan in place yet that required him to tell me anything about our daughter's whereabouts except that she was with him. His e-mail alternate between nasty & nice. Also, tonight I took her for her annual check up at the doctors, then home & she and I had dinner together. I then got on the phone with a girlfriend and got ready to go for my daily workout at the gym. When I came downstairs he had taken my car AGAIN, with no word to our daughter except that he was going out and would be back later. Oh, one of the nasty e-mails he sent me the other day said I'd need to find another place to live by Dec 15th - no idea where in his arse he pulled that date from, and that he'd bring home boxes for me to pack. I did reply that there is no date for me to move out, I won't be doing that until the divorce is final and I have money & a place to go and not a second before. Unfortunately, I think it'll be into 2007 now, with the holidays I understand no dates are getting set before the new year (ugh!) So, that's been my week. I am spending tomorrow (sat) with my son and daughter as it's his 18th b-day, then having dinner with an old girlfriend I ran into earlier this week, and on sunday I'm helping a friend who'se also getting divorced move into her new house. Weekends are tough so I try to spend time with my daughter at least most of one day and then be gone most of the other. Please feel free to bolster me up here. It's so hard to see my new life looming but yet be so stalled in the journey (courts, wheels of justice turn so slowly!). Thanks for caring all. Let me know your thoughs.

11/27/06 4pm Well, thankfully they made it home in one piece last night about 9:30 ish. My som wasn't home long before his father drove him back to college - he had an early class this morning - but we did make plans for me & my daughter to go and see him this saturday for his birthday. Both kids said right away that they missed me and I got big hugs so that made me feel really good. He has ignored me, which is great, I prefer it that way. I didn't sleep well, but there were no fireworks and we did sleep in the same bed (thank goodness it's a king sized one). We just avoided each other while getting ready for work this morning so hopefully this will continue (a girl can dream). I confess my stress level is again pretty high though, and am just waiting for the next "event" in this on going saga of "As the stomach churns"...lol I'll keep you all posted & my guard up. Off for a quick nap & kickboxing tonight.

11/26 9am Well, actually this weekend turned out to be a pretty good one for me. I spent more than my share of time crying and being lonely (missing the kids something firece), but also spending some time with friends, thinking, sleeping & relaxing. Feeling rested and non-stressed has been a blessing and hopefully gotten my head on straight and I've stored up some energy for the stress/battles that are sure to be ahead. After the toilet paper incident, I had a moment of clarity and realized that after the computer spying & TP gate (lol) I'm sooooo done. Any lingering microscopic doubts I had are now OVER! I kept receiving hostile e-mails from him, and I sent a reply yesterday morning saying that anything more he has to say to me needs to be done through the attorneys. He replied back "that figures". Not sure what the heck that means, but I didn't respond. Now that the day has come for their return, I'm looking forward to seeing the kids (even though my son will only be home long enough to pick up his clean laundry and take off back to college), but confess my stress level is inching back up knowing that he'll be back in the house. While we were trying to work things out I had moved back into the master bedroom, and spent this weekend moving back all of my things that he had moved out of it, but am hesistant to move back into my son's room again, but not sure what to do. Advice/suggestions? I'll post again either tonight (I expect them home around dinnertime) or sometime tomorrow. I'm also dreading going back to work as things stink there for me right now as well. As always, thanks guys!

11/24 12:30pm Thanks guys, as usual you make me feel better. I've left a message on my attorney's voicemail asking about what can be done, because I think you are right about things continuing to detoriate. I've also forwarded all his e-mails to her for future use. I just can't believe the depths this guy will sink to. Someone told me today that in AZ courts think that the cost involved in his trip (gas, etc) should NOT have come out of the joint account, as the trip was his choice, not a necessity. I've asked my attorney about that as well as my SUV uses quite a lot of gas to go to another state and back. I really, really appreciate you guys! Please keep up the support/suggestions.

Another Update 11/24 10am Well, this one may take the cake. I checked my e-mail this morning and apparently he's taken the time out of his busy vacation to check up on me and be nasty yet again. Yesterday I discovered that there was only 1/2 a roll of toilet paper left in the ENTIRE house. Since there are 3 people and 3 bathrooms, I decided to go ahead and buy 36 rolls of toilet paper at the grocery store, which was on sale for $14. Since it was for everyone, I used the joint account. This morning I found a nasty e-mail from him telling me there is now $4 left in that account and that I shouldn't expect him to cover my "not understanding" that I shouldn't use that money and any bounced checks. I responded that I bought only toilet paper for the house and got a reply saying"$14 for toilet paper? Use your own money" What do you think of that?

Welcome Yvonne! Wishing you all the best on your big day on tuesday. This site is somewhere you can go and get incredible support and lots of great advice, even laughs. I was just in your country this June, having dreamed of it all of my life, the three weeks I spent wasn't nearly enough. I'm seriously considering moving there in a few years (see my thread "divorce), any good, hot, available men there? Please let us know how your surgery and recovery goes, we will be here to help you on this journey. Be well!

Update 11/23 6pm Well, I'm still here and doing ok. I cried off and on last night after they left. He allowed me about an hour and 1/2 with the kids and we had a nice time visiting together. I was happy to see my son doing well, he seemed much more like himself than he has in a while. We even spoke a tiny bit about my apartment when I move out. I did cry when we hugged goodbye, which made him cry and he said if he didn't have so much stress from college and need to get away that he would stay home with me. I told him to go and have a great time and not to worry about me, that I'd be fine. He texted me when they arrived last night to tell me they got there safely. Today is my daughter's birthday and I called and sang her a very off key happy birthday and spoke for a while to her and my son. That always makes me feel better. One of my friends from college whom I haven't seen in a few months called this morning to wish me a happy thanksgiving and as soon as she discovered that I was all alone, she made me get dressed and she and her son came over and made me go and spend a few hours with her mother who just lives down the street. I've known them since 1983 and hadn't seen them in qute a while so that was nice. I declined eating with them, they were going to another nearby relative's house but those people I didn't know and I didn't feel much like doing that, not enough of my usual energy. Usually something like that isn't a problem for me as I am very outgoing, but not now. I've also received several call today from friends and co-workers checking on me which makes me feel loved and a bit less alone. So far I've alternated crying, sleeping, reading and just hanging out. I mostly feel ok, but the nights are harder for some reason. I wish my gym was open, but am considering going to the cemetery to visit my mother tomorrow and then walking in the park for some exercise. Am also thinking of going back out to a few of the apartments I have liked when I checked them out earlier and look again and check their availability for december/january when hopefully things will be final and I can move on with my new life. I may even brave the mall tomorrow night (hopefully those early shoppers will be gone by then) there's something I bought that I have to return at a department store there, and it'll get me out among the living for a while. I don't mind being by myself, I really like it, it's just missing my kids, missing my daughter's birthday and the forced isolation of this holiday where people are with their families and so many places are closed that are getting me all at once. Again, thanks to all of you for helping keep my spirit alive, and please don't think me greedy to ask all of you to keep it up. I just realized that I haven't eaten all day so will go do that.

All alone now for the next 4 days, they even took the dog with them. I have no one to spend the next 4 days with. I am very sad and lonely.

Thank you, thank you, thank you all!!! I couldn't begin to express how grateful I am for all this support. Humbly ask youall to keep it up. Happy thanksgiving everyone.

UPDATE 11/21 3am Well, a while back ago one of you wrote something about his checking the computer and apparently I should have listened. Apparently at 2am this morning he decided to check up on me and found this thread & my posts and has decided that me & my lawyer can "go F$!@k ourselves" and that he's done with me. Guess that shows if he's willing to meet halfway. He says it's not just about that (not filing a withdrawal) but also that I was willing to "lie" to him until after the holiday about it. My concern is what he'll tell the kids this time. Feedback?

11/20/06 (9pm) Well, I spoke to my lawyer today (finally) and she had an excellent compromise. She hasn't had time to file the withdrawl, and she suggests filing a notice to the court that the "parties are attempting to reconcile", which would give us 180 days or even longer to do anything. It's a bit different than a hold, and the best thing in the way of meeting halfway. Now I'm thinking doesn't this show somewhat how "changed' he really is, if he's not willing to go for this doesn't that say it's more of a control issue? I however, have planned to stall him by saying that the attorney is out of town until after the holiday weekend. Since we'll be going out of state to a big family reunioon for the holiday (plannned for the last two years), I think this time away around his family may just nudge something inside me. So far, to be honest I still just feel .... nothing different. Just comfortable sometimes and not happy. I feel happy moments when I'm with my daughter of just out doing things like shopping or working out. Not when I'm with him, usually then I feel nothing, or pressure, sometimes even trapped. Always conflicted & confused. This weekend we did go to the movies and ate dinner together every night and I really am trying, but am so confused I can't see straight. Literally one minute I think it'll be ok and the next I don't. I go to (yet another) counselor tomorrow. Not sure how much I believe in this, but on a lark on Saturday I went with a friend to a psychic, who asked no questions besides my first name, he only made statements and asked me not to respond. He immediately tapped my wedding ring and said, you'll be single soon. He said I'd initiated a divorce, was attempting to try again, but that I'd wind up going ahead with the divorce. He nailed how my husband is in personality, as well as me. He also said that I had 2 kids, the older being a boy and that I was worried about my daughter. He also said he sensed a problem with one of my ovaries due to tumors (I had my rt one removed several years ago due to recurring non-cancerous tumors). Any thoughts....??? Will post again or try to before thanksgiving, or maybe even from the in-law's place. I think I might feel overwhelmed & a bit trapped in another state for four days with his side...Thanks again you all for being so supportive and truly helpful. Please keep it coming. Still feel on the brink of a breakdown. Work still sucks. I am grateful for all of you.

I am overwhelmed & humbled by everyone's continued support and very valuable advice. I do take it to heart. My plan for the next week is to try and get through at work, get rest and re-energize myself so I can "deal" with my life. I have been running on fumes too long. I really appreciate everyone's prayers as well, I'll take all the help I can get. Wishing you all a very happy thanksgiving, and I'm thankful for all of you. Please continue to indulge me and hold my hand therough this process, I've a feelingit's a long journey not hardly begun yet. I couldn't do this without you and my firends. ps - so far things are ok some times than fighting the next...more later on that.

Thanks to everyone for the continued support and encouragement. Sharing your personal stories also helps a lot - makes me know I'm not so alone in this experience. In another weak moment I agreed to drop the divorce & did tell my lawyer (maybe someone should perform a lobotomy on me so I can't make some decisions). I did tell him that from my perspective he is being manipulative and that this was the LAST time he would back me into a corner. I told him he backed me into a corner to file for divorce when he called the kids & e-mailed everyone that I had already done so, then again when I simply agreed to try again he called the kids & his family right away. I'm trying to look at it like it's either the best money spent or one of the more costly lessons in my life. I've put my foot down about keeping bank accounts separate, he MUST get individual counseling (me too) as well as the couples. We also sat down and wrote down the things we thought were wrong with the relationship and the things we were looking for in one. I tried very hard to say "this is what I want" instead of "this is what you do wrong". Also, I'm thinking that the kids will know we gave it one more try if it doesn't work, and if it does work, then it was a good thing. On top of everything else after kickboxing Tuesday night I developed a SEVERE tremor in my right hand, so bad that night I couldn't type or write. The next day it got worse, and the nurse at work made me go to my doctor right away. The doctor thinks I damaged a nerve somehow and gave me some anti-inflammatory meds and a referral to a neurologist for a nerve test, and no kickboxing for 2 weeks. It's minor now, but much better. Now lots of pain/cramping from so many hours of twitching. I slept 3 hrs last night and ate a bit today and kept it all down, which was a nice change of pace. Tonight he took our daughter to a hockey game so I have the house to myself. Plan a long hot bath and early to bed (with a benadryl to help sleep). The doctor also put me on anti-depressants, so hopefuly that can level me off too. Ok, I'm ready, feedback, advice? You are all so good at showing me a new way to look at things or affirm my thoughts, even provoke me to think, so any and all input is welcome.

11/13/06 9pm Thanks for the devil's advocate. I flucuate between what you said and what he says. My dilema is how do I know what is right? He insists that if people can change why can't he... some of my questions revolve around do I even want him....as more than a friend... is this just because it's comfortable & easier. Not to mention better financially? What's fair to him, the kids, me? How do I know? Who's needs are better served? You're right, I am so worn down I can hardly see straight. Feeling like I'm headed for a breakdown. Just wish I could get my life back to good. Tried to get into the doctor and no one can see me till after thanksgiving... My plan is to try and keep the water at eye level so I don't drown, feel like I'm in the middle of the atlantic ocean alone with no lifejacket or land in sight. The things that used to bring me peace now just seem like 4 letter words, love, hope, etc....

(11/9/06 7pm) I took (another) day off due to crying 20 hrs straight and lack of sleep. He actually stayed home & we talked,,,now am cosidering giving it another try. How crazy am I??? Friends are concerned, I don't eat, drink or sleep enough. I'm entertaining the idea, as 25 years together...makes me think I have to be able to say 100% that I gave it my all.. not sure that's true but also not sure my heart's in it now...The big fight we already had is he wants me to dismiss the divorce and I want it to be on hold (lawyer's advice) for a couple of months. Think I'll hold my ground on this, but he feels that sends a defeated messsage and "leaves the divorce hanging over his head" and he wants a clean slate. One friend says it's him trying to be in control another says she can see his point. He's already called the kids and his family to say we are giving it another try. He has agreed to intense counseling and says since I changed why can't he change too? I just don't know. Sometimes I think it could work and sometimes I don't. I don't know which way is up or what is right or what is fair.... Need to find a counselor, fear I'm having a nervous breakdown. Crying, lack of sleep, HUGE work problems, feel like I have no safe place to go. Can't get myself to go away, swing from thought to thought. I appreciate all advice, insight, HELP

Here we go again. After a reasonable day, he's off to crazy town again. Wish they would cancel that express bus..lol My lawyer sent me a sample parenting plan, which husband and I had already discussed and mostly agreed on. I tried to be cooperative & took my revisions up to him and he was going along ok then suddenly exploded at this paragraph (in summary): If one parent has to go out of town or be away overnight during their week, the other parent will be contacted first to pick up our daughter and keep her with them during the other parent's absence. The other parent will keep the child until their return or their week starts. If the other parent then agrees or chooses, the child may be placed with a grandparent or trusted family member/friend instead. What I mean by this is that if he has to go out of town for work or whatever and it falls on his week, I will have our daughter, rather than say his mother, another relative or (down the road) a girlfriend. That I as her mother (and vice versa in all of this) have priority over anyone else. He somehow took this as me having a problem with our daughter staying with his mother - which I don't she is simply not her mother and his mom lives about 45 minutes away from us. I tried explaining this but he won't listen to me. He then said we'd have to go to court over this, as he wouldn't agree to it now. I DON"T GET HIM!!! ARGH!!!!! Anyone see a problem with this? Any ideas on what I can do differently? Any peeks into the workings of a crazy man? As always help & support deeply appreciated. Here we go again, another weekend in hell. Boy, I remember a time when I looked forwar to the wekend. I am actually thankful for this outburst as it reminds me that this kind of behavior is why I'm divorcing him, he's unstable and tries to make everything my fault. ps - things rough at work too...I feel like there is almost nowhere I can go to be free.

OK, more craziness. Last night he actually stayed in the same room with me and cried, saying did I know how hard it was for him on tuesday not to take care of me when I was so sick. I said that since he yelled at me that night and was pretty nasty, no, I had no idea, it seemed pretty easy. Then he says how much he still loves me and that he keeps hoping that one morning I will wake up and change my mind. I told him that we have been over this a million times before and I really didn't want to cover the same thing anymore as there was nothing more to say. We than had a reasonably sane, calm discussion about money and could we agree. Then he got hostile again and nasty. Then he calmed down and offered me use of the master bathroom tub (I used to take a nightly soak) WHILE HE WAS IN THE ROOM. I declined. Today there's another nasty e-mail. My lawyer still can't reach his lawyer and neither can he. Apparently the guy's a one man operation with no staff at all. My husband says he picked him because he heard that the guy can get mean. Is it me of am I married to a bi-polar personality? I have forwarded my attorney all the e-mails he sends, and she said that in her opinion he has a few screws loose, and for the first time in 15 years or family law practice, someone labeled food. I am still on an emotional rollercoaster. I do feel bad that he is hurting so, but when I look at him I feel nothing more than friendship. I just wish this would be over soon and settled so I can move out and move on. Anyone have any insight?

Update (10/31/06) He's still crazy. I've been sick, which is very rare for me, (just a bad head cold) and he brought home a hamburger for me (along with himself and our daughter) tonight, and even had them put on extra pickles like I like it. I thanked him & offered to pay and he said $2 wouldn't break his bank. Then after our daughter went out with some friends to trick or treat, he started to harass me about signing permission for him to take the kids out of state over Thanksgiving - which is also our daughter's birthday. I had already said I would do this but see no rush as it's 3 weeks away. He then threatened to take me to court if I don't write it up by the end of the week and said then I'd have to pay court expenses once the judge ordered me to write permission. I again explained that I had always said yes just didn't answer to his timelines, that I would have the permission to him in the next week or so. Than he said he'd just sue me. I relied that he should knock humself out. I also told him that the reason he hadn't gotten a response to his settlement proposal was because my attorney had left 4 msgs for his requesting paperwork like paystubs, written info on his profit sharing & bonus program structure, etc. His lawyer doesn't have a secretay or return her calls. I suggested he get his attny to coperate so we can get this settled and he ignored me. Also, this weekend he stated since I work at our daughter's school he's decided not to pay me any more gas money, then gave me $30 for the week's groceries and demanded change & a receipt. I plan to call my lawyer tomorrow about the latest. I also want to know from her what happens if his attny doesn't respond, I would really like some more solid plans in place with timelines. Is that reasonable? I think it's when I am so out of control that I feel worst. Being so sick & unable to sleep (again) doesn't help. The good news is because my throat hurts so badly I am drinking lots and lots of Water. All input is appreciated. Thanks everyone.

:angry This morning he informed me that he won't be giving me anymore money for gas. He had been giving me $20 a week but now says that since I work at the same school she attends, it doesn't cost me any additional money to take her to/from school every day. He makes 30% more a month than I do, I already have less than $100 left a month -after paying my 1/2 of the bills- for food, gas, etc. Meantime he keeps taking our daughter out to dinner, movies, ice cream, etc. I have no money for this. He also went out thursday night to see my son at college and now (again) my son is kind of abrupt with me. I'm staying on the high ground here and not saying anything bad about their father, but it's killing me that my son seems to be being fed some you know what about me. Does the fact that I don't defend myself make me look bad in an almost 18 year old's eyes? I'm dying inside. HELP!

Just a quick update. Last night he asked what my attorney and I had talked about and I just looked at him and said I was too tired to talk to him, and my lawyer was contacting his for some information. Today he came home and didn't llok at speak to me all night. If he asks again I plan to just repeat my answer. I took another benadryl and got 5 more hrs sleep. Plan to do the same again tonight. I dread the weekends...Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers...I will need them both I think. Thanks for everything!!

I met with my lawyer today (yeah!) for about an hour and 1/2. Thank goodness she charged a flat rate and not by the hour! Anyway, we went over item by item everything we wanted to "counter offer" and why. She pointed out lots of good things to me, like a better custody arrangement - we agree on joint - but he wanted 2 week blocks each with our daughter, and she explained why week on, week off would be better. We also went over finances with a fine tooth comb and came up with a proposal and what we "really" wanted. She answered all of my questions and I feel amazingly better. Seems being in control helps your sense of well being quite a bit. She is going to contact his lawyer in the morning and request some financial info, and suponea it if she has to, and then she'll type up a counter offer. I am hopeful but realistic. I think a lot of what I want won't go over really well, but hopefully his lawyer can get him to see that I am being reasonable. I took a benadryl and slept 5 hours in a row last night, but still pretty tired. Am thinking I will do the same tonight, maybe 10 hours over 2 days will help. It sure beats 6 hours or less over 5 days! My attorney also said let's try and hold off on getting him out of the house if possible, but if his behavior esclates, we'll look at it then. Thanks again for the support, on this roller coaster journey I guess I'm on an upswing, but know there is a lot of down comingtoo.

Well, barring any more crisis, I should be meeting with my lawyer this afternoon (wednesday). I am looking forward to moving this process forward and feeling a bit more in control. I've been thinking that some of my inability to cope comes from the feeling of being stuck/stalled/trapped, just like I did before I decided to finally admit things were over. Also,lack of sleep doesn't help. Last night I was so desperate to sleep that I took a Benedryl and slept 6.5 hrs in a row. I still feel tired but much more like myself. Hopefully after I get home from the meeting I can take another one and sleep for another block of time. Seems to me that lack of sleep, control are all parts of that hamster wheel feeling I have been having. I'll update tonight what happened with my lawyer. Oh, she did leave me a message on monday that she placed another call to his attorney again warning him about his client's behavior and possible removal from the house. Thanks again everyone! please keep helping hold my spirits up!

As always, thanks to all for your continued support and encouragement. Thankfully my attorney has represented several of my co-workers and she has a flat rate retainer option with us due to our low salaries (we work for the local government) so I can call/e-mail etc without concern about the fees. All of your advice has been incrediblyhelpful and sound. I feel lonely & numb today. Got 3 hrs sleep (not in a row) last night and to cap ot off the scale says I've gained 3 pounds! Not sure how with eating so little. Somedays I just don't want to be me.... Will write an update after my meeting with my attorney tomorrow afternoon. I sometimes think hope & wish are 4 letter words for a reason....