Desdemona

I try to keep an Atkins bar with me just in case I get stranded without anything to eat. I also remember Atkins saying in his book "eat a Big Mac --cheese--all the sauce--lettuce--throw away the bun" I don't do it often but if I'm stranded it works. Yesterday-- 1 slice low carb pizza 2 zesty pickle spears 3 coffees Sliced pork w/low carb pocket ½ avocado Atkins crispy chocolate caramel bar Today 2 fried eggs, 2 strips of bacon 1 coffee 2 iced green teas 1 slice low carb pizza Steak w/blue cheese, mushrooms, cauliflower 6 almonds 5 black olives 2 zesty pickle spears Atkins crispy chocolate caramel bar

schampange--The Center for Disease Control (CDC), and all professional organizations use the BMI system. According to that -- your current BMI is 29.8. A healthy BMI is 20.9 - 25 (depending on body build---muscle ratio). So if you have a large frame or are big boned -- you can be more like 25 but if you are smalled boned--you will want to be closer to 21. So your healthy weight range is 130-150. Here is the CDC link that explains what BMI is and how to calculate it. You can also decided that you don't want to go as low as the CDC recommends but their BMI rates are based on measures that provide maximal reduction of weight related health care risks. BMI - Body Mass Index: Adult BMI Calculator: English | DNPAO | CDC

Lynn1215---OKEY DOKEY---it's gonna be you and me on liquids for at least a day (maybe more) starting Thurs! Well---actually ---maybe they won't put you on liquids for your first fill. I was told I could eat light on my first fill. I'm sure I'll hear differently for the 2nd one Thurs. Gee---I had the golf ball feel 2 weeks ago and didn't go on liquid. Then -on July 4 -- I actually had a small PB (my first). I forgot all about Fenton's caution that we had to do liquids after a PB! I still feel a little golfbally. I wonder if that is why? Tomorrow AM I'm schedule to get a custom measure of my body fat percent. I'm joining a study that is being conducted so they will track it as I lose weight. This way -- when I hit those darn weight stalls, I'll be able to get a very precise reading of my body fat and know what's what.

Hi Denise--yes---sorry--I did mean you. Thanks again. I'll let you know when I get it done. Shortgal----AWWRRRRWWW!!!!!!! I'll be thinking about you and looking forward to your post regarding the proceedure. Gdf18---I agree with Indigo---you'll get a better idea of what you want to do as you get closer. The thing is -- even though those BMI charts are quite good they are also only averages for thousands of samples. Each one of us may have more or less bone, muscle, Water than the average person our height. Tomorrow AM I have an appointment to get a custom fat percent measurement done. Most people don't go to all of that commotion but I always have to make a production out of everything! LOL! orea15---Hi. Welcome. Wow! You have already done a LOT of work!

jencys---wow --- that IS something! Do you mind giving us the stats on your fills and band? How big a band---how many fills did that take---how much saline? I'm having my 2nd fill Thurs and I don't think I will need a lot. I'm a bit worried it will be too much (but I know I need some). It's going to be done with x-ray so I do hope that will prevent them from giving me too little or too much.

It looks like we are really revving up here!!! Great! FeliciaLevy75---ya---I know what you mean. It really is hard to stay at low a very very low carb. Atkins doesn't recommend staying at 20g for exactly this reason but I guess we tackle it becasue we want to get it off ASAP. Hopefully our bands will help us maintain the loss this time so we don't have to stay so low ever again. mamato3---thanks but I have been at low carb for a LOONNGG time. Atkins wrote his first book in 1981 and I found a copy of the grapefruit diet which he based his work on in 1971!! So my first 20 extra lbs came off that way. I was only 20 years old -- sigh---oooo where DOES the time go??!!! I was pretty darn CUTE --if I do say so myself---for about 6 or 7 years before my late night partying came back with a vengeance! Every few years for the last 36 years I have low carbed and then put it all back on -- and then some until I reached 100lbs overweight! I agree with everyone here that -low carb rocks--but until the band -- I kept falling off the wagon. It always began again with bread! As soon as the carbs got a hold of me through bread --I'd be into chips, potato, pasta---then onto sweets. Now I'm hoping the band will keep me off--or limit --the bread and other crap. I'm also a researcher and have studied the low-carb research EXTENSIVELY. Believe me--it is poised to really revolutionize nutrition and health care interventions. So here's my report today -- a little higher on the protein than I'd like. I'll try to do better tomorrow. Atkins shake 2 chicken wings with spaghetti sauce 10 10almonds 1 zesty pickle spear 2 coffees Pork tenderloin, cauliflower, pork broth Cheese stick Guacamole and pork rinds carbs 17, protein 76, calories 1074

Yes. That's why this time is referred to as "bandster hell". It not only gets old but then you have to keep your cool through several months until your fill levels get to the point where you aren't hungry. But it's important that you really white knuckle this time and use the old fashion diet through sheer willpower. We all know that method doesn't work forever because we all ended up gaining weight in the end -- but all overweight people are experts on HOW to diet and we can all do it for a while. You are going to have to bite the bullet and do it one last time until you heal and then get the right level of restriction. If you fall off the wagon and eat -- then you may not heal right (causes future slippage and hernias) or you will just gain weight and have all the more to lose once you get restriction. It will most likely take MONTHS before you have good restriction ----so please hang in there. You can do it.

smarquezrn and maguirre67 --Congrats on your bands. A word of caution though---make SURE you follow your MDs post surg instructions. I know exactly what you means about feeling low energy. It is a combination of low calories and the effects of being under BUT the low calories and light meals you are suppose to be eating right now were not prescribed to you so you could lose weight. You were given that diet so your stomach muscles would not move around much (via digestion activities). Don't put stimulants in your stomach -- like coffee. Stay with light meals/foods as instructed by your MDs. There are sutures along the back wall of your stomach folding the stomach into a flap to hold the band in place. Your ports have also been anchored into an abdominal muscle. That all has to really heal up very firmly or you could end up with: 1) a hernia in the future OR 2) band slippage in the near future. That can happen if you put excessive pressure/weight/activity on those healing areas. After they heal well you will be all set to do anything. In addition, don't feel too worried about not losing right away. A lot of that has to do with water retention and internal inflammation from the surg. Give it more time - as your body gets over the trauma it has just been put through -- the weight will dramatically drop off in a few days.

I do the same thing -- especially when I'm sitting at the Mall with my cup of coffee while a ton of people (literally!!!) are swarming around me with HUGE plates of food spilling in all directions --- for LUNCH. But – like all of you---I’m not feeling judgmental of them. I’m just thinking – “THAT is exactly what I did---that is how much I ate---and more”. I think I do it because I’m just finally able to really see and reflect on just how much unnecessary eating I did. At the time – I really did think that I ate pretty much what I needed to eat to be healthy. Now I’m noticing others and I can really deeply appreciate that I was WAY overboard. I began realizing this over the last three years whenever I went to Rwanda. I didn’t feel that I was eating very much but Rwandans were eating far - far less than me. And sometimes I would talk with someone who glanced at the leftover food that some Americans left behind and they would almost start to cry because they knew that a whole family could be fed on what the Americans were throwing away. I also became very conscious of how scarce water is. I have never been able to look at food or water the same way. I do think that was the beginning of my shifting awareness of how out of control I was. I was embarrassed. Now I do wish I could just hug every overweight person around me and help them see what they are doing---and what we Americans are all doing to ourselves.

Lynn--Thanks!! This is the info I was looking for. I'm going to print out your description and take it to my MD. I go to a large teaching hospital so someone there ought to be able to do or refer me for this testing. I stay between 1000/1200 but there are days that I wonder if I should be lower or higher in calories. I’m losing slowly right now and I want to do everything I can to get to the bottom of it. Could just be that I need to wait it out or maybe I need to do something different. Thanks again. gdf18---I'm a researcher and perhaps I can help with your questions. When they do these studies on different sample groups they find that the mean (average) weight loss was 50-60% of the sample group's excessive weight according to the BMI charts currently presented by the CDC (national Center for Disease Control in Atlanta) . For example I was 43.0 BMI. That means I was 100lbs over weight. According the studies --- if I do average -- I can expect to lose 50 to 60lbs. But it's important to understand that the 50-60% is the AVERAGE results across many studies. That means-- if the statistical curves were normal -- then about half the people in the study lost less than that and half lost MORE than that. Sometimes the study reports give more information about WHY some people lost more or less than the average. There are many reasons why some people do better or worse. It can be about the band, the surgery, the surgeon, patients age, gender, race, metabolic issues etc.---But from what I have seen in the many studies that I have read, most of the time it’s because the people who follow their MD's aftercare instructions, stick to a good eating plan and exercise are the ones who usually do better than the average. That’s US!!! We are going to be GOOD and beat the average!!

Yes--your port is going to be tender for a while. Then it will subside and just when you think the discomfort is gone you will suddenly have increased discomfort. It can scare you because you'll think you pulled something. It's GAS in your stomach that is pushing on the weakest muscle area---your healing port. You may also get an increase in tenderness there as you begin exercise. It will also heal up and the tenderness will go aways. If you get the tenderness -- make sure you are drinking a lot of water -- because that moves things along and prevents gas.

You Go Girl! Isn't it fun!? Yes, it will slow down as you go along and you will have to work with your band BUT you will also find this a LOT easier than all those other times when you tried to do it without the band. There is nothing like success to motivate us to do more. The band will also curb your appetite and cravings so that you can handle them much better/easier than before. Nevertheless -- you will still have work to do --just more manageable. Stick with this board because you will learn a lot and make good connections. You will feel "held" in your journey as you travel the road with us. I wish you the very very best.

ya know---it can be very hard to understand why people say what they say unless you really want to take the time to have a deep conversation with them about it. I can think of lots of reasons why this woman said what she said. It could range from general negativity to a very sincere sense of caring about you. We all get different reactions from different people. I find that most people just don't know that much about the details of gastric banding. Well! Why should they? I didn't know much about it myself before I decided to spend nearly a year reading every darn piece of research that has been published in the last 5 years on it, and every book written on it, and every message board I could lay my hand on. I educated myself. If I care enough about what a particular person thinks (sometime times I do care and sometimes I don't) I can elect to educate them or walk away from them knowing that don't have the facts. As far as co-workers, friends, family --- I'm an open-book. I do what I do and I am what I am. I don't hide any of it. Some of my co-workers are very interested and they need help. My being out about my banding is helpful to others. After I have opened up about my process with others they have conveyed what they have learned to me to others and I have received a number of messages that my experience has really helped someone else. That means a lot to me. Others might think I'm weak for doing it. Well --that is THEIR problem -- not mine. If they are going to be that judgmental of me over a lap band then I really can't feel much respect for who they are or what they think --- and I'll be darn if I'm going to hide who I am or what I feel -- just because there are some judgmental small minded people around me.

I think it really comes down to personal fit. When people say Atkins it really seems that most people are thinking of his induction phase which limits to 20 carbs a day and is just 2 weeks but many people elect to stick with it. There are in fact 3 more stages with higher carb counts. A compete literature search in Pub Med on low carb studies for the past 4 years pretty much demonstrates both the safety and benefits of all low carb diets and Atkins is the most studied of them. Nevertheless, it is hard for most people to continue at 20 carbs a day for a longtime. It has also been shown that it really isn't necessary to be that low unless you are particularly insulin resistant. In addition, many people, especially people over 50 tend to get very low energy, have brain fog, and irritability on only 20 carbs. That is why I think it's a matter of personal preference. Try to find out where you respond best to low carb eating. Which type of low carb can you stick to? Which one do you feel best on? Which one works best with your lifestyle? That is the one that will work best for you.

My MDs office gave me an outline for a post surg diet and then when I was discharged from the hospital they gave me a detailed one. I'm wondering if there are a lot of bansters out there that are not provided with this by their MDs. I think that they should do that for you because it's really important. They told me I could not have soda, coffee, juice (but after a few days I could add some cranberry juice to water. I could have any of the sugar-free clear drinks like crystal light flavors. I could have light tea after the first 24 hours. I could have clear broths (chicken, beef, turkey, veggie). Some people love the Trader Joes but I liked the College Inn best. I could have all the sugar-free freezer pops I wanted and that seems to be a life saver for most people. I probably went through nearly a box a day and I still always have them in my freezer. They are excellent when you are craving for something sweet and/or cold.

Denise--While you are on the board I have a question for you. I read one of your post on another thread in which you described some type of medical test you took that measured your resting metabolic rate?? I mentioned it to my bariatric nurse because I want to do it. She said she never heard of anything like that. What is the specific name for the test? It sounds like you were saying that if you know what your resting rate is then you will know how many calories, carbs, proteins, fats to eat? I really like the thought of having concrete proof of my nutrition needs. It sounds like it could take some of the guess work out of what I’m trying to do. Speaking of testing, I’m scheduled to do the precision body fat analysis this Tues AM. I decided to get it done for 2 reasons. First, there is a 30lbs weight range for my height. I’m actually a rather muscular person so I just don’t know how accurate the BMI chart would be for me. I’d like to know exactly what percent of fat I have so I can get a better sense of what my goal should be. The other reason is that I think it would be helpful during times of weight loss stalls to actually be able to see proof that my body fat is really decreasing. I know we can use a tape measure but I just feel that it would be more encouraging for me if I could really see the medical proof in fat content. And – then IF the fat content is NOT going down then I really will have hard proof that I need to do something different.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! LYNN!!! Good for you that you put it back!! Attagirl! Step AWAY from the chocolate bars!!!! You're right Fenton---"Us" tend to have a big problem with chocolate and ice cream (especially chocolate ice cream). I also suspect that the U.S. also has a big problem with it. When you were talking a while ago about eating that 1/2 of Mars bar 1 day and the other half the next day -- I was thinking ---OMG! If that were me -- it would have been half 1 second and the other half the next second. That is why I resolved not to bring any into my house. And, for some very odd reason that I don't really understand, I have actually stuck to that since Dec 28, 2007. If I bite into that stuff I'll be a goner for sure.

You guys are really onto something re: people's perceptions of weight. There were a number of people who told me I didn't need to go to such extreme as WLS and that I only needed to lose a FEW lbs. When I told them I was 100lbs overweight they nearly fell over. They said maybe 30 -- no more than 40. Now everyone sees a big difference but they can also see that I'm still overweight so now I guess they believe me. Fenton--you are a chocolate connoisseur!!!! I am chocolate junkie!!!! I'll eat anything and everything chocolate! I'd eat a chocolate ANT! I'd eat a paper bag if it had a picture of a cheap chocolate candy bar on it! Now that's a JUNKIE!!

Hi All- Atkins shake 4 chicken wings with spaghetti sauce Low carb pizza 3 coffee 10 almonds 25 carbs/67 protein

pi txlady –There are different types of bands that a surgeon can use. There are different ways of doing lap band surgery. And there are different ideas/philosophies out there in the lap band medical community about what are the best insertion and healing strategies. Unfortunately, there are also different levels of experience/training but even among those who are highly trained – there is plenty of room for differing methods. In addition, each patient may have very specific needs so 1 surgeon could advise different things to different patients. Newly banded pts begin with liquids or very soft foods right after surgery and then work up to full solid food diets. Hopefully their surgeons will provide them with detailed written instructions regarding which liquids and foods they can have and for what length of time. As Janet has already pointed out – it is best that people understand and follow their own MDs instructions. The thing about the liquid and “mushie” (soft food) stage is that people often get hunger or just plain sick of the limited choices. But putting too much food or the wrong food in your stomach at this time can undermine proper healing of your stomach for various reasons. You will see some people on the board that will disregard the MDs instructions and go out and eat whatever they want but they are really taking a risk for band complication in the near or distant future. ElaineC---did your MD give you a booklet or refer you to a list of liquids or soft foods? If not—maybe you want to call her/his office and make sure they get very specific. They get a lot of money for this and they should be very available and supportive to your after care needs. We are very happy to help too but you want to understand what your surgeon feels is important for what he did in your surgery.

sueangel--I read it. This is terrible. These types of situations are very traumatic for all the survivors. I'm sorry this has happened.

sueangel--Holy Moly!! I was born at Wing--and I worked there 4 years at the Griswold Center before returning to school for my final degree. There is a very soft spot in my heart for that place. Right now I'm in Westfield stressing through some professional writing, PT, and the final throws of a tenure process but if you'd like to -- I'd love to talk with you in few more weeks.

I'm with Christine on this. I notice that you are 59. I'm 56. I think things like age, metabolism, genetics, history, exercise, gender all play a role. My nutritionist said that as long as I was getting 40-60g of Protein I could go as low as I wanted on calories. I have also heard people say that they couldn't lose until they had more calories. Another thought I had was -- your title indicates that the MD told you 700/800 forever but you didn't mention that in your message so I'm wondering about the details. My MD is also conservative and puts people on a very specific meal schedule for several months that restricts types and quantities of foods. When you add up the calories of what he tells us to eat it only comes out to about 700/800. It takes about a total of 5- 6 months after surg to get through his eating plan. It gradually increases to more food and calories and we eat pretty normal by the time we get through it. He says the purpose of it is not really about weight loss (although you do end up losing weight on it). He says it's to help the stomach heal. He puts stitches along the backside of the stomach where he created a flap to hold the band in place to help prevent slippage. Then he anchored the port into the muscle wall. The purpose of his method is to do everything he can to prevent future complications. Putting too much food -- or the wrong type of food into my stomach before everything heals well (which takes a long time) can cause slippage or hernias years down the road. Different surgeons use different surg approaches so they may give different after surg directions. So—my point is---talk to your MD or MDs nurse (a lot of times the nurses are easier to talk to and better at explaining). Find out, specifically, why he is saying you should have so little food----is it about losing weight or healing? Is it temporary or life-long. If he really means life long—why is he saying that? If it doesn’t make sense to you – consider other expert opinion. Good luck.

mandi78- You don't say if your therapist is a specialist in eating disorders. A specialist would have known that the band and bulimia activity don't mix. It is very important that eating disorders be addressed as they are potentially dangerous. Please find a qualified therapist. The other thing that you can do is join an Overeaters Anonymous support group. They really focus on emotional eating. You can also get their literature, buy work OA books, join OA message boards. You can not deal with bulimia alone. Please don't be afraid to reach out and get help. You will find that by focusing on the emotional eating rather than "dieting" you will start to lose. Good luck. mandi78

I think it would help if you gave us more info like -- how long have you banded? What is your current BMI? How much total have you lost so far? What type of exercise are you doing? How long have you been following 1200 cal and doing your current level of exercise? What are you eating for your BMI. What is your approximate age? Are you male or female? All of these things can be clues. It could be a combo of things. Are you getting ENOUGH calories? Are you getting enough protein? Many times people start losing when they INCREASE calories or protein-----especially if they are working out a lot. Do you feel tired?