Desdemona

Hi all again-- I'm just watching the eve new (NBC). They are putting a story on tonight on a major newly released study out today -- saying that low carb is more effective that low fat for losing weight. I just did a news search and found this link in the London Times. I'm sure you'll see it all over the news in the next couple of days. Low fat diets 'not as effective for weight loss' - Telegraph

renewedhope--- I honestly don't mean to push you on your decision. Absolutely do whatever you and your family think is the best thing for you -- but I just want to point something out before you go. If you go to Pub Med at PubMed Home which is the National Institutes of Health medical website containing the abstracts (and sometimes the full paper) for every single medical study that get published in medical journals worldwide you can do your own search on low carb and muscle. Just enter those terms, “low carbohydrate” “muscle”. I have already done it. There have been several studies done testing this question for the past several years. Both single focus studies (just studying low carb) and comparison studies (comparing low carb/high Protein to high carb/low fat) have shown that low carb/high protein is more effective in preserving muscle with weight loss and/or exercise. I don't mean to second guess your MD but may I ask if he sent you for a BOD POD Test or were you completely immersed under Water to have your FAT MASS weight versus Lean Body weight measured? Those 2 methods are the only 2 accurate measures. Or perhaps he used some calipers on you which is less accurate but still is a pretty good rough guess? I had the Bod Pod test last week. My lean body mass is exactly what it was when I began losing weight 48lbs ago. I make sure that I get at least 60g of protein which is needed to protect my muscle mass. The only time low carb interferes with exercise is when the exercise is very strenuous – then more carbs should be consumed – but it doesn’t need to be a lot of carbs. Again -- I don't mean to upset you but I just felt the need to offer this before you left. Whatever you do, I wish you the very best.

orea15---Thanks for that great posts. When I finally went into the research lit -- I found some good studies that back up that perspective. Thanks! Beckyo---WAY TO GO!!!! 19lbs is awesome! Janet--phily--and all--she DID start on my again this AM and I managed to stop her this time. I informed her that my fat-free mass is the same as when I was 220 and I have proof that I have lost 48lbs of FAT--and that I'm going to CONTINUE to do the treadmill until the pain on my left side subsides enough that I feel comfortable tackling the weight machines. She didn't like it but she did back away. Denise - I'm glad to hear to say that about being able to eat what you want and you are still dropping weight. I was thinking about you because I remember you said your resting met was low. Mine came in at 1234 and I was trying to remember yours. I think it was around the same as mine? According to the charts I see on the net -- it looks like mine is about 200 cal below average--so---I just have to be mindful of those 200 calories. Also---You're info about the pre-banding strengths training was very useful. I do totally agree with you, Janet and others that strengths training is excellent and that both types of exercise really do 2 different things. I definitely do want to work it in at some point. I think it would be terrific. I just need to start it when I feel I can --- and I also need to start it slow and increase in a way that doesn't cause pain or leave me feeling drained all day. I have decided that I'm going get to goal---get in physical shape (weights) and then treat myself 56 year old body to a rafting trip down the Grand Canyon next spring!!! Thanks again everyone!

Amanda--Now THAT is what I call GREAT visualization skills!!!! I’m sure you could make money with that! And it’s a terrific method for staying motivated. BNL – That is terrific! You’re on your way to a BNL!!!!! Sharona---Do you know I was thinking of you when I posted that!! I thought to myself uh-oh – this will be a “red flag” to a good nurse and I’ll bet Sharona will catch me! You DID!! Ha! Yes ma’am. I have to admit to you that I PBed this AM when I tried to eat an omelet. I think it was partly because I was trying to make hotel reservations on the phone and I just shoved the first bite right into my trap. It was too big and I didn’t chew, chew, chew. Now I’m resting and I didn’t even get Breakfast or lunch. OK – I’ll watch it and see what happens. I am getting all the liquid now and I’m also getting the Protein. Yesterday I only had 1 Protein Drink and got the rest in with egg salad for lunch and salmon for dinner. I did get a lot of solids last night. In fact --- I pushed the envelope and got into the popcorn. It was DELICIOUS!

Hi Denise---yea ---I'm hoping I'm going to be able to ride this wave for at least another 10-15lbs. Congrats on maintaining your weight loss and then building on your success. I hope to copy you! hollyberries---that Enchilada Bake looks wonderful! I can't wait to try it! Bloo--Congrats on "overweight." I can't wait to claim "overweight." I can't do that until I lose another 24lbs. Sigh. Everyone seems to be doing pretty well.

I have been gone from this thread for several days. I went for a fill last Thurs and the MD put 3cc (!!!!) in at once!!! It was done under a floroscope because they couldn't find my port opening a month ago. I was losing on the low carb but when they put that fill in -- I had to go to liquid for a few days. I was so tight that I thought I was going to have to go back in to get some out but now it seems to be relaxing. I have been eating a little soft food and its been low carb. For liquids I still used Atkins low carb protein drinks. For soft food - I ate egg salad. Tonight I was able to eat a little salmon with spinach. Between the fill and the low carb I have lost about 5lbs over the last 9 or 10 days.

I got my 3cc fill last Thurs at noon. I was only able to get in about 3 glasses of water the first couple of days because it was going through VERY slowly. The liquid was actually harder to get in than mushies--but the mushies were hard to. It CAN take a few days for the swelling to do down. It’s different for different people. I could only do a LITTLE omelet, egg salad, or cottage cheese until today (Tues). Now I’m getting all the liquid, sugar free pops, I need. Tonight I had salmon and Brussels sprouts for dinner with no problem. I do believe it was swelling in my case. It’s tight but a lot better than it was – even from yesterday and I expect it will be even better tomorrow. I’m not getting the uncomfortable/painful fullness feeling in my stoma anymore unless I try to eat too much. I have also lost 3lbs. It looks like – I won’t need to go in to have saline removed.

Janet--that sounds like what I was doing too. I was up to about 50 mins on the tredmill and then I'd speed it up and slow it down and move the incline around. Then every once in a while I'd try to do some twisting--arm raising-- bending. I guess I thought this was a type of interval training. The treadmill heart monitor said I was right in my target range and it would go up and down along with my exertion level. I was really working up a sweat. Needed a towel to wipe my face. She just comes up to me and says – “you been working those machines?” I shake my head no. She makes a face and shakes her finger at me and says, “you can’t rely on that treadmill. It won’t work. You’re just losing muscle and water. Your kidding yourself. You can do that for a year and your not going to lose fat.” That when I went to have my body composition measured. I just decided that if I had the exact composition reading – that I could see if she was right. Well–it looks like she WRONG!

JANET!!!!! OH MY!!!! REALLY!!!!! I thought for SURE that with your level of success that you were really working those weights all along!!! I’m SHOCKED!!!! ---- OK!!! THAT'S IT!!!! ----- I'm going back to that gym in the AM and I'm doing those aerobic machines until I feel I have enough strength and stamina to start the weight lifting. THANKS -- you guys!

Joanie---Thanks. You are living proof! 95.4lbs CAN'T be just be water and muscle!

thanks Phily--I see now that it would have been a good idea for me to give more of the background first. I have to admit to you that haven't gone to gym in the last few days -- although I have been walking outside, doing my lifecyle at home and they also put me through mild strengths training with those rubber bands at the physical therapist office. I have to admit that I have been avoiding her becasue I feel bad when she gets in my face like that. I have to do a lot of writing and thinking in my job and I'm under stress right now because my tenure status is being decided by the administration. I HAVE to have enough strength to work during the day or I'll be in trouble. I paid the gym a head through Sept and I really do think I should get in there and use those professional machines. I really do want to get stronger than I am but I just can't allow her to push me as hard as she thinks I should go.

speaking of fills----man-o-MAN (!!!) did I EVER get a fill last Thurs!! Since they couldn't find the port opening a month ago they put me under floroscope. He put in 3cc (!!!) on top of the 4 that was in there. Shortly after I left the hospital -- I realized that even a tiny sip of water was just sitting there like a lump. I knew my stomach would swell so I decided to go on my merry way to the ocean. Well--let's just say -- I haven't been able to get much down --but it has been getting a little better each day. I called my MDs office to talk this through. The nurse there is really good and has a band herself. She told me that as long as I didn't vomit - there is no increased risk for slippage with the band that tight and at this point -- it is a matter of preference. She said that some bansters actually LIKE it that tight! She also said that in her personal opinion is that it's too tight because she doesn't think it allows enough nutrition. I agree! I told her I'd wait a few more days to see if more swelling goes down and the band relaxes. If I'm not getting more food in 4-6 days I'm gong to have some fill removed. But meanwhile--the scale is going down and that isn't hard to take! 2 more lbs and I'll be half way to my goal!

I agree with the first 2 posts. 20lb seems low for Dec but your expectations need to be based on things like your weight, gender, age, BMI, how many fills have you had?, do you have physical disabilites that limit exercise?, do you do exercise? what are you eating? We'd love to help but -- we need some info.

I got my second fill last Thurs. My MD used the floroscope becasue they had difficulty finding the port opening. He put in 3 ccs -- making it a total of 7. I have exactly the same situation you are describing so I called yesterday and had a long talk with the nurse. She has a lapband too and their office is located in a teaching hosptial in NY. In addition to having a band she sees tons of bansters. For what it's worth to you -- this is what she said to me. She said--the tightness in and of itself will not cause slippage but if you vomit more than a couple of time because the band was tightened -- that can cause slippage. She told me that some bansters actually WANT the band that tight but most do not. She said that in her personal opinion -- it was too tight because she doesn't think it allows enough nutrition or 64 oz of fluid. After talking with her a while -- I told her that I agree that it's too tight and I want to allow more food/fluid but since there was no increased danger of slippage and becasue it did seem like it was gradually getting better and I would give it a few days to see if the swelling goes down and the band relaxes on it's own. It has been getting better each day. If I'm still not happy with it in 4-6 days --I'll go back and have a little taken out.

phyllser--Sorry if the "guru" reference felt like it was pointed at the board-it was not. A young woman who works at my gym starts lecturing me every time I walk in the door. In addition there is a lot of conflicting information between different fitness websites I have been reading as I try to think about what the woman at the gym tells me. The woman gave me a strengths training routine that leaves me so tired that I can’t get through the rest of my work day. I decided to work with the aerobic machines, instead, until I can get into good enough shape to tackle the anaerobic machines. Also, I'm in physical therapy for neck, shoulder back problems and my PT is telling me not to do the heavy upper lifting at the gym for right now. The woman at the gym tells me every time I walk in the door about how I’ll never lose weight if I don’t build muscle on the machines. I have been worried about her comment that she thinks that the weight I have lost (48lbs) is mostly water and muscle. I have been spending tons and tons and tons of hours on at different fitness websites trying to get a better handle on this issue from the people who see themselves as knowledgeable enough to write all these fitness and weight loss blogs. What I’m finding is they are contradicting each other—which just leaves me more confused. So then – I went to the medical research and I still find some conflict but also some good information about trends in research results. So –after a lot of worrying --- and a TON of reading/listening, I finally decided to just go have my body composition measured so I know for sure exactly what in the world is really going on in my body. I just thought I’d post the info on the board in case someone else was feeling as confused/ worried about what they were reading/hearing as I was.

I posted this on another thread but I wanted to pass this info along here too just in case anyone was interested in this. Last week I had a body composition analysis done using the Bod Pod. It only takes a few mins and gives you some really useful information about your body. The charts that are posted on the net (BMI, metabolic) are good but they only give you averages for other people of your age, gender, height etc. I wanted to get my own body measured so I could know exactly what was going on with ME. There are other types of tests out there but most of them have a higher degree of error. The Bod Pod matches the underwater testing that has always been considered the gold standard method. It gave me exact readings on total weight, total fat weight, total non-fat weight, body mass, body density. In addition to giving me my resting metabolic rate, it also told me how many calories my body consumes on sedentary, low active, active and very active days. I feel this is very helpful because it removes a lot of guess work and worrying for me. I now know that despite what anyone says – I am NOT losing muscle instead of fat. I have a very healthy muscle mass. I know exactly how much fat I have and will be able to go back and check to make sure that the weight I’m losing is fat. If I stall or gain a bit of muscle – I’ll be able to see (and not worry) that it is indeed muscle and that I’m not doing something wrong. I also know-- for sure – how many calories my body is burning under various conditions. The initial cost was $60 and subsequent trips will be less (although that may be because I’m part of a study). They also provided me with some individual counseling so I feel reassured that I’m doing OK. I just find it helpful because in the past – I have felt so discouraged when I don’t lose as fast as I think I should. Then when self proclaimed gurus start telling me that I’m dong this or that wrong, it only gets me more upset, confused and discouraged. Now I know that my body just decided to slow down and rest a while after losing 40lbs. Now I’m on the move again. I found out about it through my surgeons office. He is at a teaching hospital and they had a Bod Pod at the medical center. Here’s a link to info on the Bod Pod if anyone is interested. Life Measurement, Inc. BOD POD

I tried to post last week and ran into a problem getting on the board (Weds eve). Last week I had a body composition analysis done using the Bod Pod. It only takes a few mins and gives you some really useful information about your body. The charts that are posted on the net (BMI, metabolic) are good but they only give you averages for other people of your age, gender, height etc. I wanted to get my own body measured so I could know exactly what was going on with ME. There are other types of tests out there but most of them have a higher degree of error. The Bod Pod matches the underwater testing that has always been considered the gold standard method. It gave me exact readings on total weight, total fat weight, total non-fat weight, body mass, body density. In addition to giving me my resting metabolic rate, it also told me how many calories my body consumes on sedentary, low active, active and very active days. I feel this is very helpful because it removes a lot of guess work and worrying for me. I now know that despite what anyone says – I am NOT losing muscle instead of fat. I have a very healthy muscle mass. I know exactly how much fat I have and will be able to go back and check to make sure that the weight I’m losing is fat. If I stall or gain a bit of muscle – I’ll be able to see (and not worry) that it is indeed muscle and that I’m not doing something wrong. I also know-- for sure – how many calories my body is burning under various conditions. The initial cost was $60 and subsequent trips will be less (although that may be because I’m part of a study). They also provided me with some individual counseling so I feel reassured that I’m doing OK. I just find it helpful because in the past – I have felt so discouraged when I don’t lose as fast as I think I should. Then when self proclaimed gurus start telling me that I’m dong this or that wrong, it only gets me more upset, confused and discouraged. Now I know that my body just decided to slow down and rest a while after losing 40lbs. Now I’m on the move again. I found out about it through my surgeons office. He is at a teaching hospital and they had a Bod Pod at the medical center. Here’s a link to info on the Bod Pod if anyone is interested. Life Measurement, Inc. BOD POD

Annie---I REALLY like your cut too! In fact – I noticed that you are looking good too (weight-wise). Fenton—I know exactly what you mean regarding the conferences. I always go with a plan of “being good.” It works for the first day or 2 and then I eat something that is off my plan. But - I also have found that I can at least try to make better off-plan choices so there isn’t any weight gain by the time I get back home. It’s important to be realistic about what we have to deal with. Last summer I was in a poor area of central Africa with nothing but potato potato, and more potato with a very small amount of meat everyday. There was just no way I could stick to low carb. I have found that it can help a lot to at least bring low carb bars with me on trips.

It really does depending on which type of diet you follow. Most of them do work. The big question is which one are you most likely to stick with. Which one suits you best? Fat and carbs do not mix. If you use a low fat, calorie restriction diet then you need to really watch those fat calories. You depend on only higher carbs and lower fat to lose the weight and maintain healthy eating. But if you do a low carb diet -- you eat more fat and the whole fats work better on a low carb diet than low fat foods do. There are now MANY major well respected studies that show that low carb is every bit as healthy (and in some cases even MORE effective) for a host of diseases (cancer, diabetes, heart disease) and blood work indicators as low fat diets. You just can't have it both ways. If you are going to eat quite a few carbs -- cut fat. If you eat fat--watch your carbs.

Well --I'm one of those who did the research (as in taking 1 year to read ALL the medical studies on obesity -- bypass--and banding that have been published in medical journals for the past 5 years) before making a final decision. I also screened 5 different surgeons before selecting one. And--I'm here to say that you definitely have the right attitude. Congratulation on getting to clear decision so quickly! Good! You seem to totally get the idea that the band is a tool and you will have to diet and exercise if you want to get to goal weight. You also are right on the mark when you say that those of us who have battled this war of obesity get blown out of the water when we hit those dreadful nasty stalls. The band is wonderful at helping us through. I just completed a 2 month stall and the band is the only thing that kept me on course. I'm losing again (finally!) and I NOW can see that weight loss is NOT a hopeless thing for me. I NOW can see that I really DO have set points where my weight will get hung up even when I everything right. If I temporarily lose my mind occasionally and eat a hot fudge sundae the band stops me from over doing it until I regain my sanity and control over my diet. You have it right -- and your friends you don't know what they are talking about have it wrong.

The insurance companies use your weight at the time of your medical intake appointment for the BMI guide. The first 20lbs is the easiest to lose because it's mostly water, glucose, and fat around your liver that drops fast. Taking it off makes your surg. faster and more accurate. It’s easier/faster for the surg to get in next to your stomach. You will have a better band fit which will help you lose weight more effectively on the band. It also decreases risk of complication (slippage) later on. I would think that you would WANT to have the band placed in a way that maximizes your chance of a good band fit with reduced chance of complications! Also, the insurance companies and surgeons also know that although the band is effective -- it is really important that it is matched to the right patients --- or it will not work. In addition to the medical aspects --- most surg require the weight loss to identify patients who are at risk for disappointing banding outcome.

I am a health care delivery researcher. This is inexcusable!!! One if the WORST stories I have heard. Copy your email into a letter and report this incompete to the state of New Mexico!!! You will be doing a great service to others.

I hear they are good in India. Do you have someone lined up here to do your fills? A lot of people going outside the US are having a LOT of problems finding someone who will do the fills and deal with any complications that may come up.

The main thing is -- you're not suppose to soak the area of the incision. My MD told me to take showers and I asked if I could put water in a tub as long as I kept the water line below the incision. He said yes --just doing immerse the incision area.

annie--I knew you got the wig but I didn't know the hair loss was to that extent. That sounds very very upsetting --- even when you are told that it will grow back. I'm really sorry you are going through this. Lynn --sounds like you are coming along with your fill. They did mine with an xray machine this time. I was SHOCKED when he said he was going to put in 3cc -- on top of the 4 that was already in there. He didn't even have me drink the barrium. Just told me to do a few days liquid, then mushies, then soilds. He said if I PB more than a few times come back in. I think I pushed it too fast. Only had liquid that day -- then I went to Cape Cod and I've been trying to eat just a tiny (and I do mean tiny) amount of Fish. It caused me to PB. I can't even take more than several small sips of Water without a feeling of back-up. At this rate I'm only getting in about 3 glasses of water a day! I did have a little egg this AM and then some refried Beans tonight. I don't don't. I'm going to try to stick with liquid tomorrow -- then mushies for a few days. If it doesn't get better within a couple of days-- I'm going to go get some of the fill out.