Jachut

I know what you mean - tair seems to percolate up your throat and it gurgles? This happens to me often and it can be embarrassing because its almost like you've burped!

Well, let me refer to the Queen's English. It is colour, not color. Neighbour, not neighbor. Grey, not gray. And gaol, not jail (although we spell it jail here too).

"but still able to eat" - um, you do realise, that being unable to eat is not the goal? Sorry, I know its probably just how you said it, but the real point is, are you losing? it doesnt matter if you eat five cups of food at a meal if you're losing weight. There is no point and no need to aim for teeny tiny portions if you dont need to. It only makes being adequately nourished harder. Really, you only need a fill if you've stopped losing weight. None of those things you read - feeling huneger when you havent eaten for four horus, eating more than half a cup, still being able to eat bread, are reason for getting a fill. Not losing any weight and being starving hungry in between meals are when you get filled.

Oh, I didnt realise you ate that little. That would be HARD. If that's the case, I would just see how you go over time. If you dont lose, then the equation isnt working and needs to be revisited, but you might find you're losing.

Like Emjay, the best meals that last the longest and work the best with my band are the ones that inlcude Protein AND a complex carb. I can guarantee no hunger for hours and hours. Protein and vegies alone doesnt cut it for me, and carb heavy meals - even good carbs (like toast for breakfast) dont either. I think Elcee's given you excellent advice. Go back to basics and work your way up to see if your fill is maybe a tad too much. This slider food trap is just the easiest one to fall into isnt it? I find over time my taste for sliders (even healthy ones) has increased markedly whilst my appetite for foods like bread and meat is so so.

I like this analogy, its very true. I actually think following rules, not blindly, but being really inflexble about them, makes this just another diet. One that you will fail at sooner or later. I really believe strongly in the lifestyle thing and I do think that unless you learn to listen to your body you are not learning what you need for long term success. That's so personal though. Its how my brain is wired so I have trouble seeing anything else. I disagree with the second comment though, I have a lot of medical, nutritional and exercise knowledge, and I knew exactly what I should be doing, I just didnt and couldnt do it without the aid of a band. I certainly wasnt clueless and I certainly didnt and dont need nutritional or exercise advice from my doctor. He doesnt give it anyway, he will refer on to associates if people need it, but his realm of expertise is surgery.

I cant stand Protein shakes, they're soooooo sickeningly sweet, thick and gluggy, just disgusting. Here, the pre op diet is usually Optifast. I didnt mind Optifast, that was thin and milky and tasted OK to me _ I had the vanilla one, and you could then flavour it with coffee etc. Post Op, I actually dont really see a need for shakes but I do like a drinkeable breakfast. What I do is make an egg flip. I blend a raw egg, skim milk and vanilla and sprinkle with nutmeg. Its delicious and completely natural and about 17 grams of protein. I know raw eggs freak some people out but I've never had an issue, never had food poisoning, etc.

I live a similar lifestyle and its really hard to continue to eat well. I do fall into funks where I live on coffee and sugar hits about eight times a day and only realise several days later that I've barely eaten anything except cookies! I never have time for breakfast in the morning as I have to leave the house by 7.30 and get 3 kids ready for school as well as myself. The solution to that is eat at work but now I'm bored sh*tless with the limited options I have in my desk - this morning I made an egg flip (I dont do Protein shakes) which I carried around as I got ready. lunch is a non issue for me as a teacher, I get an hour and I either eat in the staffroom or spend the hour in my classroom working and eating without interruption. Yard duty days can be hard as I only ahve 20 minutes to eat so I have to take something easy those days. I eat a healthy snack in the car on the way home, I was stopping at the petrol station and buying junk so I've nixed that by keeping nuts in my car or if I dont fancy that, I've got a box of healthy muesli bars in my car. This stops the all out cookie binge when I walk out the door. dinner is the worst, I skip it sooooo often due to just being so flipping busy I have to run from this sports training to that, to this school function, get my run or bootcamp in, supervise homework, clean, etc. Its just a matter of strictly sitting down to eat.

I dont eat the extra. I find I can run just fine on a basic balanced diet that includes good carbs. But then, I never dropped my calories low either, I always ate about 1400 a day. I dont snack before exercise, nor after either, even though so much literature says that you should have some Protein. I figure people have survived a long time on this planet without scientifically figuring out what they should eat before and after exercise. Its such an achievement, so i dont want to sound mean but for distances less than 10K there's really no need to specifically fuel for it. When you get to half marathons and further, you need to really think about providing and maintaining energy. But the sorts of distances I run, which are 10kms or less, I dont do anything. No doubt there's a ton of serious strength training peoples who will tell me I'm wasting away my muscle by doing this and I certainly understand the scientific theory behind it, but I just find in reality that I do the exercise I do and I have a body I like, whether it has "enough" muscle or not (I'm lightly muscled, tall and skinny, and yes, a little flabby). So I dont mess with what works for me. If I really wanted to muscle up, I woudl think more seriously about it, but the truth is, running wont build that much muscle, it tones muscle.

Well, not everyone is a perfect bandster. That is a statistic, which means its pretty much an average and includes people who lost 100% and people who lost 10%. People get banded for the wrong reasons and are non compliant, people struggle to change their lifestyles, people have medical problems which cause them to be overweight such as PCOS, people struggle to find good restriction, some people exercise, some people dont, people follow different food plans which may or may not match their particular eating isues, some people get banded at 30 and some at 65, the list could go on forever! Somewhere in there is where you will fall, but the biggest factor determining that is YOU. You are in control of this and can decide that you want to better that depressing statistic. Personally, I lost 120% of my excess weight and have maintained it so far for 2 and a half years.

Aggressive isnt really the right word - assertive is more what you mean I think? If you feel you need a fill for example, then its within your rights to insist and any doctor that really wont listen is perhaps not worth seeing - as long as what you're suggesting is reasonable. There's plenty of people that just want TIGHT as quick as possible and its really not healthy or sensible, in which case any good doctor will counsel against it.

I'd say exactly what Elcee said. Also, the 'sweet spot' is not some magical place you arrive at. For me, it was more of a "good spot for now" that I got to with each and every fill. My definition of it is that you eat well and varied, you can eat without undue amounts of vomiting or stuck episodes (allowing for user error) and you are losing weight. How much food that takes is irrelevant, and I personally think whether you're hungry between meals is not really a factor either. If you're unduly hungry and eat too large portions and too many Snacks and this leads to stalled weight loss then that's when your sweet spot has vanished and its time for another fill.

Definitely have a healthy snack if you are really hungry. You know, I've struggled so much with this. I have been a healthy low weight now for 2 and a half years and I *STILL* feel guilty for eating! I feel like I should have skipped breakfast or that having a small snack at morning tea time is an indulgence. We do have to eat! If you're hungry, you need food. However, when did this hunger start? Is it something that's crept up of late, something that could indicate its time for a tiny fill perhaps? I dont think you should fill just becuase you get hungry - I think the attitude that the band will prevent hunger is pretty dysfunctional. It is a biological function that we shouldnt be trying to eradicate by running off for a fill at every rumble. But if its problematic and really strong, then it might be time.

Mine is exactly like yours. I have decent restriction that keeps my portions sensible, but not teeny tiny. I can eat any food and cope very well with eating out with others. I can eat whatever is served up to me for things like staff lunches. Stress free, trouble free, worry free living at a healthy weight. The flip side is I get cravings, I get hungry in between meals, and I do have to use a lot of willpower to resist things. I'm not getting filled more because I'm already a healthy weight (although I'd like to be a little lighter) and I already struggle with choosing healthy foods over sliders - I've found over time, although I can eat anything, my appetite for things like healthy sandwhiches and fruit and good things like oatmeal has diminished and I'm much more prone to getting through the day on coffee and Cookies. If I go tighter, I know this will escalate. At least now I can make the concious decision to choose well even if its not what I really fancy and eat it without problems. Just like Elcee, nobody would know I was banded in any given social situation although people at work tease me about not needing to watch what I eat (they notice the small portions) as I'm naturally thin (if only they knew!). And just like Elcee, I can eat breakfast no worries but struggle a bit with dinner.

I had a sample of this in the Peanut Butter and banana flavour, it just about made me vomit. It was really thick and gluggy and hideously sweet. I cannot for the life of me see the point of making a supposed "health supplement" taste so sweet. I dont like Protein shakes as a general rule though, apart from one Musashi one you can get here, which I will very occasionally have for breakfast.

Really? I wonder if the generic stuff is a bit different. Even post banding, I eat a high fibre diet that includes wholegrain bread and such, and plenty of vegies. But I still find I need a bit of extra fibre, and I find Benefibre very gentle, I just put it into a couple of cups of coffee a day. I wouldnt take a whole lot all at once, build up. Is it perhaps that you eat a really low fibre diet and arent used to the roughage?

Well, I lost 120% of my excess weight - 100% will only take you to the top of the healthy BMI range. The 60% figure is only a statistical average. People get banded, some are compliant, some are not, some get sick with complications and lose their bands, some go on to have further surgeries because the band wasnt a great choice with them, some people exercise, some dont, some people become obese purely through lifestyle habits that can be changed, some are fighting much more challenging health conditions, some have real mental dependence on food. All those things combine to mean some people lose lots of weight easily, some struggle, some lose it all, some dont and it all boils down to an average of 60% of weight lost. The main factor determining how much you lose is YOU.

Lol, I kinda suspect it was just a scam to get this sort of debate started. To bad we're debating sensibly and not fighting, hey?

One thing I will admit, being an avid anti low carber and not half vocal about it either, is that I do think sugar is probably more to blame for heart disease than fat is. somethiing about sugar seems to render our bodies incapable of saying ENOUGH, whereas most of us wont overdo it on fat to the same extent. And our parents generations (well, my parents, I'm an old and crusty over 40 year old) seemed to subsist on high saturated fat diets without the same levels of heart disease as we we now enjoy. I dont think fat is *quite* the enemy it has been made out to be over past decades, but I think sugar might be way more damaging than we used to think. I actually used to think a banana in a white bread roll and a bag of jelly Beans was a pretty good lunch as it was virtually fat free. It never occurred to me that I most defintely WASNT fat free myself!

No, sometimes i might have a piece after a strong coffee, but I've got two things that most people do that utterly revolt me - chewing gum and walking around sucking on big paper coffee cups. Both VERY unattractive habits that I dont do. Just a personal idiosyncracy I guess. I could go on about other things I hate, but I've probably offended enough people just with those two, lol.

Well, that MIGHT be me. I'm not a rule breaker, I was into this 100% and the carbonation and drinking with meals and Protein stuff were NOT rules for me. So technically, I follow my doctor's advice and would advise anyone to do so. But patently, since we have such laxer rules and no rules at all a lot of the time in Australia (of course it depends on yoru doctor, like anywhere) then those things simply ARENT hard and fast rules. I really echo ada's sentiments above - most of the nutrient balance, drinking, alcohol, caffeine advice are recommendations, not rules. If you can lose weight drinking wine, well, wine in moderation is not an entirely bad thing, it has some health benefits. There's no rhyme or reason to the caffeine thing, thats nothing more than one doctor's personal views over anothers, there's no evidence at all that we shoudl avoid it. The drinking thing, well I could drink with meals for the longest time without discomfort, and I did. When it started to hurt beyond certain restriction, I stopped. If I'd stopped losing for any significant time, I might have tried low carb, certainly would have given up alchohol. For each of us, this is OUR body, our experience is unique to US, and any doctor that insists on a cookie cutter approach wouldnt be a doctor I'd choose. Carbonation hurts. Its very uncomfortable to drink a very bubbly drink with the band. They're also generally rubbish for you. Good enough reason as any not to drink them. Drinking with a meal with adequate restriction is likely to make you vomit. Great reason to avoid it. But does it wash food through and make me feel hungry sooner. Absolutely a resounding NO. It doesnt. So why would I need to obsess about finishing drinking exactly 30 minutes before my meal and WHY would I watch the clock obsessively for an hour after? I personally believe that the rules doctors set tell an awful lot about the doctors' attitude to fat people. Some seem to want to punish. "i wont do this surgery unless you do this", "you must follow this rule, that rule, avoid this list of foods, count this nutrient" shows quite a lack of understanding about what it is like to be fat, to be an overeater, and definitely shows no empathy for a person who has to live like this forever. I'm very comfortable with my doctor who emphasises finding our own groove with this thing, adapting a lifestyle you can live with, is not unhappy with slow loss (my personal view is slow loss is good, healthier and maintainable, high protein fast loss is unhealthy, consists of a lot of muscle tissue and long term ketosis will damage your eyes and kidneys, but hey, that's an entire different argement with compelling evidence on BOTH sides). If you love rules, you probably like a doctor who gives them to you black and white, but me, I'd probably tell him to get stuffed. I also dont think doctors are GOD and argue regularly with my GP but then, that's just me. And the simple truth is, you just dont strictly have to live with rules to be succesful. I lost 100lb in about 18 months, I've kept it off for nearly 3 years now, I have a low BMI and I did it simply by eating sensibly, from all food groups, allowing treats but keeping them to a minimum and excercising regularly and intensely. I can definitely live like this forever. Look, if you love rules and love being dedicated to a diet and love to count, journal and such, its not a bad thing. Its defintely not going to hurt you. But its not strictly necessary for everyone, it has some disadvantages for many and not wanting to live that way is NOT an indication that someone will fail, will suffer complications or will not keep their weight off. You can indeed treat the band as a tool to control portions, eat sensibly but more like a normal person and lose weight and keep it off. But I think the post op requirements are remarkably similar between doctors and are VITAL to stick to. You've just had major surgery on your stomach, you want this thing to work and last, you have to allow it to heal. Why you would f-ck with that, I have no idea. That is just not negotiable. If that's the hardest thing you ever have to do in your life, then you're lucky. I found it really easy to be honest. I was full of new joy and good resolutions about what I was going to achieve. This time it was going to work. That was all the motivation I needed.

THIS is why dieting doesnt work! This hits all of us sooner or later. Its the same as why the low carb diet is so difficult to stick to. Carbs dont make you want more carbs. Sugar makes you want more sugar, yes, but the reason you get hit with massive carb cravings the minute you allow one single item to pass your lips is that you have deprived your body of one of the important macronutrients for so so long. Sooner or later you're going to give in and yoru body will give you hell for it. You're so close to the finish line, I guess you just have to white knuckle it. And that's more for the mental satisfaction and self esteem. You have done so well, you've no doubt shrunk your liver nicely and unless you now embark on a five day carb frenzy, there's probably going to be no real bad effects from your faltering at this stage. When you add in the fact that nearly everyone has this last meal urgency, its no wonder you're feeling this is very difficult. It really should be a bit of a lesson - this is a lifestyle change you're facing, not a diet. It is simply not sensible to be so strict on something you have to follow for life - because a lapband controls portions but it absolutely will not stop this backsliding that happens when you put yourself on very strict diets.

I'd just rinse out a can of four bean mix, and dump in a can of flavoured tuna, some chopped tomato and maybe a heap of coriander (you guys call it cilantro I think). You wouldnt need any dressing because of the tuna.

I would have bet you had a bug, the only time that's happened to me has been when I've had a really bad stomach bug. Its horrid and very embarrassing. That's not band related. Hope you're feeling better.

If I'm going to pb, it will ALWAYS happen if I eat dinner after my workout. I simply cannot eat after an intense workout, my stomach closes up really tight for about three or four hours. I need a ticking off becuase what tends to happen is that I dont snack before the workout, vowing to eat a healthy dinner and then I dont eat the dinner, I just dont want it. So I workout hard and go without eating. Is it any wonder I'm thin but still too flabby for my liking?