Jachut

I think that depends on our goals. I run and do bootcamp (so a lot of bodyweight strength training). My natural build is lightly muscled, I'm not "bulky" at all and dont build a lot of muscle, although I am strong. Now if I wanted to bulk up, then yes, I'd be needing to guzzle the protein. But without focussing on shakes, and supplementing protein in any way, I lost fat, kept my muscle and have gotten a lot stronger along the way, things like full body man style pushups are no problem. I have visible muscle tone, and low enough fat that you can see my musculature, but I dont have bullk, which is what I wanted. I've not needed any more than 60 grams or so a day to achieve that. I think of my fitness, much as I am proud of it, as layman fitness, I am NOT an elite athlete and for the results I want (and got) I just dont need shakes and protein supplements, and I really dont think a lot of people do. Its perfectly possible to keep your muscle with the average balanced diet (not the word balanced though). I also lost NO hair and dont have much loose skin. If you like shakes I'm certainly not arguing you shouldnt drink them, and what suits your body is unique to you, as well. But they're not absolutely necessary for everyone, particularly if they're a chore to get down.

After surgery I only did Clear Liquids for a day as per my plan and then moved onto full liquids. I made smoothies with fruit and blended up weetbix (a wholegrain cereal), or egg flips with milk and an egg, I drank V8, Soups (home made ones with lots of vegies and some meat in them blended and thinned with stock to the consistency I could handle at the time), thin yogurt, fruit juice (minimal, too much sugar), plain milk, and as I could handle thicker liquids, I blended down whatever the family was eating if it was suitable with either stock or something like a tin of tomatoes - lean roast lamb and vegies and just a touch of gravy with beef stock makes a surprisingly good Soup, lol. I'm all in favour of real food.

I'd say you're not at great restriction if you can eat 2 chicken thighs. But that's not necessarily a problem - are you losing weight? YOu only need to get tighter and reduce quantity in order to keep weight loss goign when it slows. If you're losing well, there's no need to fill yet, although its probably not going to hurt if you're not tight at all.

Hmmmm, manufactured fake food made by humans with lots of additives - either a lot of sugar or a lot of artificial sweetener depending on whether you pick a low carb one or not. Or..... real food with nutrient balance in way nature intended. No competition in my humble opinion. I never drink shakes and never have. I've never found I needed to supplement above what I could eat.

I also pushed the boundaries on calories, and always ate about 1500 to lose. I really think its paid off, i can eat 2000 calories a day to maintain now, which is a very very normal caloric intake for a 5ft 10, 150lb woman. With my running and bootcamp, I think my metabolism is nice and fast.

Wow... interesting! The only time I get heartburn is when I'm hungry. Its a sure sign of needing to eat for me.

I said "troll" several pages back but whether that's the case or not, the discussion is interesting. I find it interesting which people say "in my opinion" or "I think" to preface their remarks and how many state their opinion as if it is black and white truth. I try to always specify that its just my opinion and not necessarily right, but there are people around who just cant see that their opinion is not shared by everyone and whether supported by scientific fact or not, not RIGHT for everyone either.

Same here. I can enjoy something for dinner and then struggle with it for lunch the next day at work. We had a tuna Pasta bake and peas and corn for dinner tonight. I wont even bother taking it for lunch. DH can have it.

I carried it very evenly (never had a particular problem area and always had a fairly flat stomach for a fat person if that makes sense) and I lost it evenly.

I'd definitely consider it fast food. Its processed, you have no control what goes into it, the bread is horrible fluffy manufactured stuff no matter which variety used and no doubt contains additives like supermarket bread does, and like Mcdonalds, the inclusion of a few wilted salad vegies doesnt really make it an acceptable every day food. The meat they use is no doubt from the arse end of whichever animal, and is not the leanest highest quality stuff. However, even McDonalds can fit into a healthy lifestyle, and if its what you enjoy, then there's no harm in eating it once in a while! You shouldnt feel guilty for the occasional treat or convenience food as long as you recognise it for what it is. Once every two weeks is hardly overindulging and if you like it, you shouldnt feel you cant do that.

Breakfast choices: an egg flip, or some sort of fruit smoothie (never use Protein powders), porridge or muesli, occasionally an egg on toast Lunches: salads (mixed salad veg, usually with a can of flavoured tuna or chicken), some pine nuts and olive oil and salt and pepper as a dressing, Soups such as ministrone, zucchini and leek, lentil, vegie etc, sometimes I make a sandwich (I like the bread toasted) and have tuna and salad in it, a regular weekend treat is a good old meat pie and sauce! Dinner: lots of meat and 3 veg meals such as chops, mashed potato and pumpkin and vegies, roasts, we do eat Pasta, soups, casseroles, curries, the list for dinners is much more varied than for breakfasts and lunches. Lots of barbies in the summer time. I do eat rice and pasta, try to make it the brown variety though. I stay away from sugar basically - biscuits, cakes, muffins. Daily treats will be somethiign like a cappucino (and as you know, that's not such an indulgence here in Australia, its just milk and coffee, not milk, coffee, syrup, whipped cream etc), and I do like a glass of wine at night. Very occasional treat is a Baileys. I'm generally eating 1800 calories a day or so. Most days I'd run about six kms or go to bootcamp or boxing.

Lol, I agree with this too, but I feel just as strongly that following rules is not the path to success. I think we all do what works for us and because it works, we all feel it must be right. And that's not a moralistic judgement, its a real desire to share the "secret" we've discovered. Well, that's how I feel anyway. I feel really "cured" of obesity in so many ways by ditching dieting and rules and such and I want to share that with others.

I do agree with you in principle, if you're going to see a doctor, then I think you do make a choice to respect his views and follow his advice, and my point in all of this is that its debatable what are "rules" that are important to follow and what are simply personal opinion, viewpoint etc. I think Astrasmom has said it well - where there's harm involved, rules must be followed - such as the post op diet. For the rest of it, however, this is all only a matter of PERSPECTIVE. What you're saying about newbies reading this and thinking its OK to break the rules is exactly how I feel about all the protein talk on here for example. I think its irresponsible to push the shakes, high protein eating, low calorie levels! As we've mentioned about a thousand times, we have a different approach in Australia and I hate how Aussies appear on other(Australian) band forums saying they've been scared off the band becuase of the truly awful diet they think they have to follow after they've visited this forum, I've seen it about a hundred times. I found this forum, researched the band and decided not to go forward with it myself becuase I did not consider a life of proteins shakes and hardly any fibre in my diet a worthwhile trade off. It took me a lot more research in my own backyard to realise that many other successful bandsters had chosen not to eat that way. Now, probably 80% of people here are American and eat the American way, which is not wrong or right, simply unique to your culture. We dont eat the same way in Australia as I'm sure they dont in other countries represented here. We each have to find our own way within OUR environments. So if your doctor has a rule about how much protein you should eat, and another doesnt, does that make one of us a rule breaker? Similarly to the snacks issue - how can any doctor or nutritionist really state that no snacking is the absolute rule for anyone in particular. I do a lot of exercise, I need fuel! I lost weight. I've kept it off. So how can snacking really be wrong? I also eat carbs - my doctor doesnt ban them. Your doctor might. Am I a rule breaker? See how it differs according to your doctor, your environment, your lifestyle? How can anyone possibly say that adapting something to your own unique circumstances is "breaking rules"?. Above all, this has to be a lifestyle we can maintain forever.

I dont know Melly, but it seems in Australia (I have a band and am extrapolating a little here) we just dont have the same rules. Our doctors dont tend to advise such low carb regimes, they're more about 3 sensible meals from all food groups and just try to eat "normally" in small portions. If you have a GNC near you, their Protein shakes are better than the stuff you'll find in the supermarkets but you may have to look for a low carb one since if you read lables, all the Musashi stuff for example, has something like 30 grams of sugar for a serving. We ahve refried Beans here though, Old El Paso, yellow can in the supermarket with all the other mexican foods. I cant imagine that any doctor would recommend 400 calories a day! There's no need to go that low.

I dont understand why Jello and popsicles are on the post op diets for both the band and the sleeve - they are rubbish foods with no nutritional value whatsoever. I think its really important to retrain your palate to not need such sweetness - whether you eat sugar or artificial sweeteneers. Foods like popsicles, jello, biscuits, cakes and pastries are not everyday foods and its better to realise that than to try to subsitute artificially sweetened stuff - personally I'm deathly afraid of artificial sweeteners and wont touch them with a barge pole. Eat greek yogurt and get to appreciate the tartness of it. Ditch the sugar in tea and coffee. Drink plain Water, etc etc. Just learn to not need "sweet" and you'll probably find your energy levels much more stable and your need to binge decreases markedly.

Believe me, my band is in there doing PLENTY. I have learned some really great new habits that would stand me in good stead were I to lose my band. I wont give up exercising like I do. I have kicked the sugar habit to a large degree. But I've done a lot of reflection on this. I think there's parts of my body and my psyche that wont ever be "fixed". I still have body image issues, I still think I'm fat when I'm not, I still think eating something doesnt count if I do it standing up or in the car or somewhere nobody sees me! I would still eat more than my band allows me to. I still have not broken the the pattern of using food as reward and punishment and linking how I eat to my worth as a person - ie. if I eat well that day I am good, if I give into the piece of cake in the staffroom I'm a bad person. Its such a complex issue, and if I were to lose my band next month or next year, I wouldnt be seeing how I go without, I'd be straight in for another band or even a sleeve.I wouldnt hesitate to replace it immediately.

80lb of WEIGHT - maybe. 80lb of FAT - no. If you kept up that pace for four or five weeks, I would be concerned at the rate of loss. A lot of Water weight is lost in those first weeks but I'd be a little worried that its just simply too much. If you feel OK, then you're probably fine. I'm not a doctor, but I'm thinking if your body is shedding that fast, there's tons of water and lean body tissue being lost, and things like heart problems are a possibility from electrolyte disturbances and such? But in the first week or so, I wouldnt worry about it, it will slow. People who have a lot of weight to lose have a lot of extra water in their large fat stores.

Well, artificial sweeteners are known to cause diarrhoea and gas, so its probably exactly as you say. It really is best just to train your palate to not need the sweetness. Giving up sweetener in coffee, for example, is really one of the easier dietary challenges, it only takes about two weeks of cold turkey before you dont miss it anymore.

I lost HEAPS of weight on liquids and mushies becuase I also had great restriction after surgery, with no fill. It lasted about eight weeks in which time I lost at least 30lb (well I consider that good, fast weight loss, it was 1/3 of my extra weight!). If you're on liquids without restriction, and starving, then you'll be eating whatever you can with any body to it to fill your tummy - that means sliders. Creamy foods with a lot of calories. You can eat a lot more calories in cream Soup or Protein shake than you can in steak!! I still find it now - choose a good meal, steak and steamed vegies for example, and I am restricted to a half cup portion of what is basically low fat food in its natural state. Make that Pasta with cream sauce and a cup goes down easily and I'm more willing to eat past satiety because its the kind of food that leads you to do that. that's why you can often not lose on liquids but lose better on solid foods - your calories on liquids may be actally very high.

I probably eat less Protein than a lot of people here, its just not such a focus in Australia, I'd get 60 grams a day though. I dont find I have to do anything special to do that other than make sure I dont fall back into pre op habits of a very carby diet that includes a lot of bread and cereals and not a lot of meat. I do make sure each meal contains a protein source AND a complex carb. I dont count protein though. I do often have a liquid breakfast but I wont do Protein shakes, I'd rather make an egg flip, or blend a banana and some Peanut Butter into some skim milk. I lost weight, never lost hair and I have muscles, I just dont really think protein is the issue its made out to be.

Excercise, particularly really intense exercise can reduce appetite in some people. For me, I find the really hard stuff like boxing will mean I'm not only not hungry but my band is too tight for me to eat for several hours anyway. And I think overall exercise makes me eat better and more regularly rather than nibbling on crap all day. Walking and other lower intensity exercises can often make you hungrier, without the benefit of huge calorie burn to mean you can eat the extra. That's a generalisaton of course as there are loads of people on her that have lost weight really well with walking. what exercise doesnt do is make you not hungry at all, our bodies dont work that way. Real lack of appetite is usually a sign of someting wrong, but for us banded folk, it can also be restriction related.

There is quite a bit of evidence that the band works better for lower BMI patients. I lost weight pretty easily and I consider 100lb in about 18 months fast weight loss. Its not spectacular but to lose steadily for that long was miraculous to me! I started with a BMI of 36 and ended up at 21/22

Hmmmmmm. I dont think it has to be "necessary" but something that means somethng to you personally. If you can afford it, then why not? I reached goal weight 2 and a half years ago and have maintained it ever since. I got out of this weight loss thing VERY lightly, I dont have a lot of loose skin, certainly never had a hanging belly in the first place. I have a flat stomach now and can wear a bikini, but I am a little "loose" skin wise, its just all a little more flabby than I'd like, particularly my backside. I wont be considering plastic surgery for that. If I was 20 I might, but I'm 43, and I can elect to cover up more if I feel I have to without losing my dignity, I mean, nobody really wants to see mutton dressed as lamb anyway, lol. I have small problem zones that I'd really only ahve to be in a swimsuit for anyone to notice. The scarring from a lower body lift (because the back of me is more problematic than the front) and the awful recovery are no way worth it for the problem I have. My boobs are pretty wrecked, I am tempted to get work done on those. But even that I'm not sure of. I dont know, I suspect PS is nowhere near as common in Australia as it is in the US, in my circle anyway, my family and friends would be horrified that I'd risk surgery for something like that and I dont personally know anyone who's had any cosmetic surgery. My face I wont touch. I just dont believe in it and I dont like the look that botox, fillers and facelifts give. I'm more than happy to grow old gracefully, and I'd like my face to tell the story of that. I dont judge others for doing it, but its not for me. its all academic anyway. I'm too tight to spend the money on something that I consider is for pure vanity. We're in the thick of teenage children, needing bigger houses, paying for their education etc and I cannot imagine how selfish I'd feel bagging so much money for something really so unnecessary. But lest I offend anyone, that's all really easy for me to say as I dont have much of a problem to begin with. I'd feel VERY differently if my belly were flapping, then its not about just vanity. For me, that's all it would be though.

Gosh, some of you guys have a**holes for doctors. Anybody WITH a band on their stomach will know that stress does indeed cause it to tighten. I dont care if they can explain it in medical terms or not, but I think surgeon or no, doctors that dont have a band themselves have a lot they can learn from their patients. So firstly, stress does tighten the band and that is normal. But you are WAY too tight if that's the way you're eating. It just shouldnt take 3 hours to drink a Protein shake, that's super duper tight and its no good for your health or the health of your band. You really should think about an unfill.

I think this is part of being obese to be honest. It seems to me to be a chicken and egg thing and I cant figure out if people are fat because they take absolutely no responsibility for their lifestyle choices, I mean they cant eat right coz they're busy, they cant exercise becuase they have a bad knee, they're depressed so they cant stick to their food plan etc etc or if being fat makes them that way. A huge part of recovering from obesity is going through a massive personality change from being a whiner to a do-er. Of course I'm making a huge generalisation here too, so this most definitely doesnt apply to everyone. But its common enough to be a noticeable pattern. As for the instantaneous weight loss - well I expected that, certainly. And I got it, my loss was extremly fast and gratifying for the first 12 weeks or so. But I have a 4cc band and came out of surgery with no fill but superb restriction that lasted months. I found the liquid to mushies part very easy, I was not interested in food, never hungry etc. I dont think the newer bands work that way very often.