Jachut

Originally Posted by WASaBubbleButt Beauty comes in all sizes, I'd have to disagree with you that health comes in all sizes. To claim one can be obese and healthy is simply not true. It's the starting point for many issues that are not the least bit healthy even if those issues haven't shown themselves yet. That I totally believe and is what I was saying in the beginning. Obese is not as healthy as you could be and there is simply nothing you can say to refute that. As far as your health is concerned, you are settling for mediocre. It is healthIER than morbidly obese, but you are still at risk of diabetes, heart disease and early death and more than that, nearly everyone gains as they get older and they lose muscle and their metabolism slows. Its part of aging. The likelihood of becoming morbidly or seriously obese again is quite high when you have not achieved a healthy BMI. Beauty now - that is totally in the eye of the beholder. I can think of plenty of people who I think are stunning who are overweight or obese, just as I can think of many normal weight people whose looks I dont envy. And losing weight has not made me anymore than what I already was, a normal, average looking person. Perhaps I radiate more attractiveness becuase of the way I feel about myself and because I fit the mold more than I did before, but I still have crappy hair, would like nicer skin and hate the fact that I'm getting older. Those are perhaps the two things that make me even care about this issue - the fact that people simply are not seeing the ultimate reward for their hard work and the fact that they kid themselves that they're healthy becuase they appear "pretty normal", "not too fat" in a society where obesity is probably our biggest killer. What do I base that on? The fact that when I had surgery at 245lb, it was totally cosmetic - I loathed the way I looked, I felt fat, frumpy and old and totally and utterly unattractive. What's blown me away? That I didnt realise how absolutely terrible I felt. I cannot believe the levels of energy and wellbeing I have now, I was a complete slug in my former life and I just didnt know it. I thought everyone felt that way. Its like my son and his asthma, there's no point asking a 12 year old asthmatic if he feels normal because he's never had any other experience than being terribly asthmatic. He just doesnt know that normal for him - tired, out of sorts, breathless, isnt how everyone feels. Its the same with being obese when you've always been - you may feel loads better than you did at 300+lb but you just dont realise how freaking GREAT you could feel. 20, 40 more lbs, it DOES make a big difference, probably more than the first 50 did. Other than that, I am not going to argue that its more beautiful to be thinner, I've never thought that or said it.

Oh, I agree, I've just wasted hours of my time trying and trying to encourage people to see that they can do more than they ever thought possible. I guess I spent that time because being where I am now makes me feel sad, unfulfilled and bad about myself.

Yeah, look at this post, lol. I"m exhausted from trying to explain myself. I suspect I havent even gotten the message across that I wanted to convey and probably insulted half of LBT in the process. Oh well, I can enjoy all the secret pleasures of being 163lb and running five days a week all on my own. If people arent curious about it and happy where they are, more power to em. I'm glad I chose to push harder.

Running is a metaphor, nothing more. Totally off topic but I think we've exhausted goal weights anyway. So as an aside Wasa - come on! Surely you cant put your hand on your heart and tell me you dont feel great satisfaction in what you've achieved - making yourself run, keeping those calories low. Yes it hurt the whole time, but how freaking fantastic and proud of yourself do you feel now? Running feels like utter crap to me too when I'm actually doing it, physically speaking, lol. I trudged along in my half marathon swearing at myself and asking myself what on earth I was doing this for. It freaking hurt, it was HORRIBLE! But the sheer awesome achievement of it at the end (oh, and the endorphin rush when it kicked in), I've scarcely talked about anything else since. Surely you have an almost unreal fealing of "my god, I've actaully DONE it!! All that painful calorie counting, self denial, etc etc, I've actually DONE it!". Because you have. To stop halfway to that, well I can accept that people *think* the end doesnt justify the means, but I think they dont really quite understand the feelings it brings. Its not the act that's joyous, its the achievement, the mastery over your own body and the mental breaking down of barriers. But Nina, I do totally agree with you. There's no point being obsessive about it or you dont have a healthy lifestyle and t hat's where counting calories and I part company - but that's where the original debate started. Going out for a run five days a week for an hour isnt obsessive if you love it. I choose to do that rather than watch something on telly, or sit on the computer. Its not obsessive at all and takes up very little of my time. Plenty of people pursue a hobby for five hours a week but its strange how its only called obsessive if its exercise and weight related.

Well, I didnt mean that running was the ony way to achieve that Wasa, you've missed the point entirely - the point I'm making is that not everyone will enjoy running, but that there is a whole different realm of reward, satisfaction, whatever out there for that extra work. I'm talking about pushing yourself that extra mile, not running per se. To stop at OK, easyish, good enough, it just doesnt bring the same, I dont know, complete satisfaction, you know? Its not about "running" its about pushing yourself further than you ever dared to go, ever dreamed you could go. When people just cant see the reward that comes for finding the courage to do that, that's frustrating to me. Its not about getting to 165lb its about changing your entire perception of yourself as a person, achieving something you never thought you could achieve.

I would just say I put all my spare cash into superannuation and therefore cant access it till I'm 65.

If you're losing your doing fine. Dont worry about how much it is, its silly to be comparing with other people. If you're losing, its right for you and there's no magic amount you *should* eat. I dont think its all about fills personally, I think its more about changing everyday behaviours and attitudes, regular exercise and only after that, getting fills to help you. The biggest thing about the band for me is not that it makes me lose weight becuase it really doesnt - I make me lose weight. What it does do is when the inevitable happens and I mosy off track for six days or six weeks or whatever, I dont regain. I cant eat enough to regain so that control is there, but as for choosing well and not eating too much, that is always still down to me. I know that's because I havent been filled tight and looked for a sweet spot, and that I could have a lot MORE help from my band if I so chose. But it can be done either way is my point.

You can see mine now if you're looking for it. If you didnt know to look for it, you probably wouldnt notice, but I'd rather have a slight lump than the fat gut I used to have.

Well firstly I'd argue that if you've reached a normal BMI then you have already lost 100% of your weight. Can you lose more? For sure. The main thing that holds people back is losing the motivation, running out of steam to work at it. In no way do I eat as well or exercise as much as I did at the start of this journey and as a consequence my weight loss is very very very slow now. I dont really care much about it anymore, since I am well below the upper limit for my healthy weight range and feel and look fine by my standards, but yes, I'd like the satisfaction of losing just that bit more (beyond my "offical" goal and into my "fantasy" goal). I know if I dieted it would happen, and I will end up doing that. But as it is, just with the lifestyle change, it continued to trickle slowly off over time - its just harder to achieve the steady loss these days. You can do it if you want to, there's nothing to stop you.

HA! My husband left the referral for the vasectomy sitting on the fridge for a year before it expired. In that time I fell accidentally pregnant with our third child. Who turned out to be breech and was delivered by caesar so I got my tubes tied at the time. I was 35 with 3 children and having a ceasarean, it was not difficult to get it done, lol. I'd imagine at 28 with on child, it would be very difficult though. I do respect the choice to have fewer kids, I dont know why more people dont respect it. We had 2 boys and were looking forward to our dream home and private educations for them when I returned to work the year Ewan started school. Instead, one month after he started school, Eliza was born. All our dreams up in smoke. We love her more than life itself of course, but we really mourn what might have been - yes, houses and educations are only material goals but they mattered a lot to us and the loss of those dreams has caused us a lot of heartache and financial pain too. Its a very bittersweet thing having a third child unexpectedly. We too wanted to give the two we could actually afford the best of everything and now they've had to compromise due to five more years out of the workforce for me.

Alexandra, I agree with you in principle - but this is the rants and raves forum where such questions ARE asked. Its really not appropriate to ask a lot of the questions that are asked here! I was thinking about this this morning and wondering why I even care becuase it is everyone's own personal business what they want to weigh. The analogy I came up with was running. I also absolutely and utterly do not understand why people dont like hard exercise. And they do the same thing - argue that they dont need to do it, walking is just as good etc etc. Well what they mean is not "I powerwalk hard for an hour every day and I"m fit", what they actually mean is "I want to meander round the block and pretend I'm working so just shut up with your silly running talk". I see it as sad that they dont know what they're missing at all. For the sake of working through a bit of initial pain they could have rewards beyond what they can see now. And they just dont want them, they think those "rewards" are jsut physical, a slightly thinner body that can work a bit harder, when nothing could be further from the truth. Running is about conquering a mountain, there is nothing in my life that has ever made me feel as confident, capable and at peace with myself than running has. And when people simply dismiss that, not even knowing what they are dismissing, it exasperates me that I cannot convey just what it is they are turning their backs on. I guess I feel that way about going the whole 9 yards with this weight loss thing. I worry that people are missing a huge part of the journey - the very best bit in fact. .

Lets remember this is the rants and raves thread - I wouldnt ask these questions IRL or on the rest of the forum, because they are probing ones. You're here in this thread, so its fair to assume you're ready to be asked the question, just as I'm ready to be told that I'm not understanding what you're saying. Whoever said above that saying obese is saying the same as fat - well, yes, I guess it is, but there's a difference here. Being called anorexic when your weight is patently firmly in the healthy range vs being called obese when your weight puts you IN the obese range is two different things - its being used as a clinical term, not a form of insult. I think the key is though - that yes, I didnt start my journey at 300+lb, I started it at around 240 which for me at 5ft 10 was most definitely obese, it was causing me problems my weight was so high. So I guess no matter how much anybody explains it to me, I'm not going to get it - although I can understand different PERCEPTIONS of weight are different but I guess I just cant really help thinking that perception is skewed. I'm 5ft 10 too and at 225 I most definitely had a weight problem and I was often the biggest person around in my circles. I felt enormous. I couldnt wear anything that wasnt from a plus size store, which was a pretty bloody miserable existence for me. I was motivated enough and miserable enough to consider surgery at that weight - and I'd had plenty of comments from medical professionals over it, particularly the physio who was treating my ankle. That's why I struggle to understand, I really do. But then again, this is Australia and we're fast catching up to America in terms of obesity levels, but in general, we dont have the numbers of people suffering morbid obesity. Perhaps in my world and in my perception it really is differnt - perhaps 225 really IS fatter in Australia than it is in America? I really want to reiterate that its not my intention to insult anyone, but being in this thread, where else could you ask these questions? Its reasonable to do so here, that's what it's for.

We have them here too - they all leave Melbourne in June and head up to QLD for winter. We call them grey nomads, since its mainly retirees that do it.

Quote: Originally Posted by kathystrick I chose my goal weight based on the weight charts and healthy BMI. I have my goal posted as 165, but at 5'10, I do believe that is going to be smaller than I am comfortable with on my body. I have been down to 225 as an adult and wore a 16/18 and felt quite skinny-collar bones and hip bones poking out, sunken cheeks, sculpted jaw. I just can't imagine my body 60 pounds smaller than that. I will keep my goal weight posted as 165, but as I get closer to that, it is likely to change. That's certainly a measure over how different we all are. At five foot 10 myself, I was banded at 240lb. At 225 I was desperately unhappy with what I saw as my enormous weight problem - I had health problems as a result of it too. I hate to single someone out and because this IS a personal issue and everyone should be able to decide what they want to weigh for themselves. But I just cant not comment here because to me that's a very bizarre thing to say. This is where I really think there's a bit of body image issues to this, I really cannot believe that at 225 a 5ft 10 woman would have sunken cheeks and jutting bones - its still a BMI of 32, heck, its still obese. To think you wont be comfortable being smaller, eek, I dont know, I just see that there must be some reason why you think that - and I think its showing an inability to recognise what healthy weight is meant to look like - its not bony and unattractive its (to use that awful word again) normal! I really do respect your right to weigh whatever you want but I cannot in any way truly understand your reasoning on this, and that's the point I've been trying to make - I dont argue with it but I cant help thinking that thay's just well, dysfunctional. 225 is obese and I cant understand how anyone cant see that, or why they'd choose it when they have this wonderful tool that makes it possible to achieve a healthy weight. Please dont take offence at this, its hard to say without sounding wrong, but I am quite baffled by it.

Oh yes.... Ok. That's just a bit sickly sweet to me, I dont even speak to my kids like that. More along the lines of GET OFF THAT BLOODY COUCH AND PICK UP YOUR SHOES!! Not please hun, get off the couch sweetie and take your little shoozywoozies into your bedroom. Thanks hun.

Oh, that's great!

I eat normally. I have never avoided going out, I've never been so restricted that I couldnt eat pretty much anything, and now I'm at goal weight, I dont find I need to eat "more" to stop losing, my energy needs and my eating and exercise habits have just found a happy medium. I could lose more by eating more strictly - I mean I dont really worry about what I eat these days, its healthy 90% of the time but we'll probably have pizza for dinner tonight coz its Friday and I've worked all day and I'll probably have a glass of wine with it. In the past I'd have thought I may as well eat a block of chocolate in the arvo too because I was going to have take away for dinner, I dont do that anymore. I have more problem remembering to eat these days, never hungry in the morning and it can be 2pm before I eat something, which isnt really good for me and I try not to do You sound too tight if you'll forgive me for saying so. That isnt normal, what you're describing. I live a perfectly normal life with my band and yes, I can eat a meal. I'm slower than I was and its much smaller than it was but I eat a meal 3 times a day most days. As for a doctor who says you should eat once a day, well I'd be looking for a new doctor. That's not someone who knows a lot about nutrition and its not someone who has much empathy for obese people. I'd give him the boot.

I've been asked when I'm having it removed by - wait for it - my family doctor!

Because it can sound condescending? Sometimes people soften an insult with it.

Golly, you could be talking about Doug and I, lol. I'm the same, I either do something 200% or not at all. Why walk when you can run kind of thing. When I did my first half marathon a few weeks back, I never ever went into it thinking I could walk a bit if I got tired, that to me just wouldnt be the same. It was run the entire thing or dont do it. So I was never going to set a high goal weight, its just not like me to do that. So yes, I think its personality dependent to a large degree. And Doug wants a piece of the action, wants to lose the weight but in the end he just doesnt care enough to actually make more than a half successful stab at it. Like your DH he's improved his health but he's not really fussed by getting down to his teenage weight or anything. And the less exercise he has to do to actually lose weight then the better, in his mind.

OK, no great pain. But probably the most boring and uncomfortable recovery I have had. Similar to any op in that you dont do much on the day as you're sleeping off the anaesthetic and waking periodically for pain relief, nothing major. But the night was awful, lol. By that stage I'd laid on my back all darn day and you cant move an awful lot - like turning over in bed, or turning on your side, a lot like a caesarean there only the discomfort is internal. It felt like a big fist clenching inside, not really sharp pain, but disocomfort. But I was so uncomfortable from laying on my back and I couldnt sleep because I'd been asleep all day since 10.00 or so when I came out of theatre and there was nothing, absolutely nothing on telly here - we have 4 free to air channels and cable TV exists but not everywhere. I nearly went insane, in the end I asked for a sleeping pill to knock me out. By next morning, I was raring to go - up and out of bed and around the hospital with the physio, barium swallow etc. I went home and went for a gentle walk.

Something like that has recently come out here, and I loved them, lol! They're a bit high in fat and sugar as compared to ordinary breakfast Cereal though, so I've only had them once or twice.

No I dont get it. And I cant believe she's as young as she is either, she's one smart chickie babe. Witty and sharp and always entertaining. And not ugly in the slightest. Amazingly stylish actually. But those of us that have gotten to goal, the compliments are lovely, but most of you understand we're not here becuase we think we're all that and that everyone needs the benefit of our experience. We're here becasue we get support here as well - its an important part of maintenance too!

I dont know, I'm not sure if its the same thing as we have here with Australians flocking in droves to Malaysia and Thailand for cosmetic surgery. I have absolutely and utterly no doubt that in Malaysia and Thailand there are qualified plastic surgeons who can do a fantastic job and I have no doubt that they have world class hospital facilities. What I do doubt is when this sort of thing becomes a "trend" and many Aussies are desperate for cheap cosmetic surgery, how many unscrupulous surgeons get in on the act to make a bit of cash by capitalising on people's vulnerabilities? That happens in Australia too of course, but its easier, far easier to investigate these things more thoroughly in your own country, to access your doc for pre op consultation and follow up care and to have someone at call for any problems afterwards. Of course we all hear the stories about how many Australian surgeons have had to fix up the hack work of asian docs, but I think that's as much self defence as it is truth, of COURSE they'd say that wouldnt they? I'd imagine its the same with Mexico - good doctors, good hospitals, perfectly possible to get a great experience and good result. Just some unscrupulous people cashing in on the action and a fair bit of trouble and inconvenience if something goes wrong afterwards. I'd hesitate to make a judgement though because the health care system is so different in general and I'd feel differently if f I had to go through what you all have to to get what is your right. We dont here, its simply a money saving venture so perhaps its different. I do know my conservatve nature would mean I'd never do it personally, I'd want my doc to be nearby, mine is only half an hour away and I'd never put myself in the hands of a surgeon (or practice) I couldnt access easily in the years after the procedure.

I didnt have to do one because my liver was OK, purely by chance I'd had a liver ultrasound for other reasons right before I saw my surgeon. I thought I'd try anyway for the headstart but I only made it 3 days. I can say without a doubt if I'd had to have done 2 weeks on that Optifast, I would have cheated.