Jachut

I dont eat with my kids. We dont have family dinners most nights, Doug doesnt walk in the door till 7.30. I tend to feed the kids at about 6 and go out for my run while they eat and then eat with Doug later on. Family dinners ARE nice but its impossible for us to do every day anyway, so i dont worry about it. But when we do eat together someone ALWAYS spills a drink or refuses to eat etc and yes, I get tight and cant eat.

Anything is possible with a lapband, it depends how hard you want to work at it. I'm 5ft 10, my ultimate goal weight is about 145lb. We've had endless argumetns about goal weights here, but it depends totally on your personality and previous experiences. To me, to stop at a BMI of 28 is doing only half the job. There is no way one earth I would accept that, and I dont buy into all that "achievable goals" rather than "impossible goals" guff, its simply not the way I think. I will never understand it. BUT - and that's a big but, I can see that others dont think that way. I dont understand HOW they think, but I know not everyone has to think like me or agree with me. Also I've never been morbidly obese, Iw as banded at a BMI of 35. So I am happy to admit, I dont knwow what its liek to be that obese, I dont know what its like to try to overcome a weight problem of that size and I dont know what its like to feel thin at a BMI of 28 - heck, if I could have gotten a lapband at a BMI of 28 I would have because I thought I was huge at that size. I dont see curvy at that size, I see people who are slightly overweight. Its simply my idea of what's attractive- whereas other think normal weight is too thin. See how many variables there are? The only person whose opinion matters is yours really, its a combination of what you want to do to get there, what you can maintain and how much you're willing to give up to do it. But you CAN do it if you want to.

The thing is, I was once a mildly overweight person with a BMI of 28 for years and years and years. I was miserable about my appearance, I coudlnt wear what I wanted, I was fat. Not as fat as I got, but I was still fat. I was always going to get fatter and that's precisely what I did once I started having babies. I think its a real shame that the very bare minimum is 30, but you have to draw the line somewhere and many people with a BMI of 28 ARE capable of losing the weight and keeping it off. Its down to personality types and the cause of weight gain. Arguably, when you've just had a baby six months ago, you're yet to normalise and resettle, and you've had big changes to your lifestyle that gradually can be overcome. But if you KNOW that you really have eating problems and its almost certain that you WILL become obese in the future, then a lapband would certainly be as beneficial for someone with a BMI of 28 as it would for someone with a BMI of 38. I always ate well, but I always ate too much. But if you've gained a lot during pregnancy and its taking a bit longer than you want for it to come off, but you basically eat normally then its probably too drastic a step. If you could find a surgeon that is, Australia generally is more liberal than the US but you couldnt get it done at that BMI here.

I'd have to say though that I do think nearly everyone can run to some degree. I had a CT scan on my back last week and I have a slight disc bulge and degenerative changes (age related), but ironically its COMPLETELY asymptomatic. I went to the doc becuase I'm fed up after three years of sciatic pain, its driving me crazy. My right leg always feels like a tree stump I'm dragging around and I recently irritated it doing Curves. But I have never had a single sciatic symptom on the left where the very slight disc bulge is. So running obviously doesnt irritate that. What I do have (tentative diagnosis) is piriformis syndrome. If you have any biomechanical abnormalities as a result of your back, running could have you ending up in quite a deal of pain. I have no feeling in my right toes at the moment, that's quite scary, I can stick pins in them, and its all from muscular dysfunction, caused by not stretching, a weak core (even though I can do spectacular sit ups, my actual deep core muscles arent great) and chronic overpronation of my feet - I have orthotics, but they were made for me when I was 115kg and now I need new ones, they're not right for my weight. So do be VERY careful, you need to pay proper attention to stretching (my big mistake, I"m slack, I stretch but quickly and half heartedly), and if you notice pain beginning, treat it right away. Building up slowly and focus on a slow jog, avoid speed work and big hills, stretch well, try to build some abdominal strength first, wear GOOD shoes (please!) and pay attention to your body. Most people can run though, you might be able to do it once or twice a week for example and do something else as well, for me, in the condition I'm in at the moment, running is MORE gentle than a lot of other things, my back absolutely wont tolerate much in the way of weights at the moment, any trunk flexion/rotation combination and I"m a goner for weeks.

What about Khe Sanh too? I left my heart to the sappers 'round Khe Sanh, And my soul was sold with my cigarettes to the black market man. I've had the Vietnam cold turkey from the ocean to the Silver City. And it's only other vets could understand. 'Bout the long forgotten dockside guarantees, How there were no V-Day heroes in nineteen seventy-three. How we sailed into Sydney Harbour, Saw an old friend but couldn't kiss her, She was lined, And I was home to the lucky land. She was like so many more from that time on, Their lives were all so empty, Till they'd found their chosen one, And their legs were often open, But their minds always closed, And their hearts were held in fast suburban chains. And the legal pad were yellow, Hours long, paypackets lean, And the telex writers clattered, Where the gunships once had been; But the carparks made me jumpy, And I never stopped the dreams, Or the growing need for speed or novacine. So I worked across the country from end to end, Tried to find a place to settle down, Where my mixed-up life could mend, Held a job on an oil-rig, Flying choppers when I could, But the night-life nearly drove me 'round the bend. And I've travelled 'round the world from year to year, And each one found me aimless, One more year the worse for wear, And I've been back to South East Asia, But you know the answer sure ain't there, But I'm drifting North, To check things out again. Well the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone, And only seven flying hours, And I'll landing in Hong Kong, And there ain't nothin' like kisses from a jaded Chinese Princess, I'm gonna hit some Hong Kong mattress all night long. Well the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone, You know the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone, And it's got me worried, I'm goin' nowhere and I'm in a hurry, You know the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone. Well the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone. Well the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone. It's really got me worried, I'm goin' nowhere and I'm in a hurry, You know the last plane out of Sydney's almost gone.

I'd try to force my schedule a bit to be honest and hope I adjusted to it overall. Probably what I'd do is hold out for lunchtime. We have a bit of a weird schedule too though, we dont often sit down to eat together, much as its a good habit and a nice one. The kids eat at the kitchen bench in the morning, I carry a Cereal bowl around with me while I shower, dry my hair, make their lunches etc, breakfast has never been a "family" meal even when I was growing up. lunch the kids are at school and we dont sit down for it at the weekends and in the evenings, I feed them, go out for a run while they eat and then Doug and i eat later at about 7.30.

The thing is, I believe a young muslim would have REASON to hate me becuase I'm white. If I'd been treated the way muslims have been treated in this country for the last ten years, I'd be resentful,fearful and distrustful. When I'd call it racism is if I were a minority in their country, socially underpriviledged and discriminated against for my basic needs. I just dont think hate is racism - that young muslim can hate me all she likes, but I dont depend on her for anything, I'm the one with the power in the relationship, if you see what I mean. She cant really discriminate against me unless I end up in a position where SHE holds the power. I just think there's a distinction there. Being hated is not nice when I didnt personally do anything to deserve it, but that's how it goes, its human nature. She didnt personally do anything to be treated that way either. I really cant speak for situations in the USA, I dont live there, I dont get the power dynamics or the culture or anything, so I wouldnt like to venture an opinion on it.

I'm female and that makes a difference of course, and I've had 3 babies, but I've gotten pretty "normal" at 40. In fact more than normal, I have a way better figure than most of my peers to be honest, not that I think I'm all that or anything, but most women by 40 are getting sludgy and unfit and fat, well around this area they are anyway. I've got a flat stomach and I'm way thinner than most people I know apart from the lucky few who are naturally thin. But have I gotten rid of every ounce of flab? No. Do I wobble and jiggle? Yes. Do I look absolutely stupdendously great on the beach? Definitely not. My body shows the scars and signs of being older, having had babies and having been fat. That's "normal". We are not going to look at 40 like we did at 20.

Oh goodness, that salmon one sounds divine. I know what I'll be cooking this week. Yes, I cant really engage in food discussions here very much, the style of eating (high Protein low carb) isnt really what I was told to do, its not pushed here and I really feel quite horrified at the array of packaged products. Nobody seems to cook from scratch and even chicken comes in a can! I dont like talking about Protein shakes and Protein Bars. And to me, fish comes from the fish shop, not a box in the freezer section of Coles.

Yes, it does, it's just that the race being discriminated against changes. In Australia, its very multicultural, but the immigration of large groups of Italian, Greek and other European people is not large these days, its asian and muslim groups instead. We've had a large Asian population for quite a few decades in Australia, but at the moment, the area I grew up in, where my parents and Doug's parents still live has become heavily Asian. Over the last decade, thousands upon thousands of Chinese people have moved in, property in suburban Melbourne is amongst the most expensive in the world, but it is still cheap to people coming from Hong Kong or Tokyo! They've bought out the houses, knocked them down (old weatherboard, 1950's type houses), built enormous mock Georgian mansions, left no garden, all very culture specific stuff, completely and utterly destroyed the streetscapes, the flavour of the area is now decidedly Chinese, all the streetsigns, shop signs etc are in Chinese, all the local real estate agents window advertising is in Chinese, the traffic is chaotic and the suburbs' infrastructure is struggling to cope with the influx of people (large families and lots of relatives all in one house). Do people resent that? You bet they do. Do I resent it? Yes, its always an area that we wanted to live in again, but now we cant afford to because prices have been driven up to close to a million dollars for a crappy 1950's 2 bedroom weatherboard house! My children, if they attended the local highschool would be in a very definitie minority, being caucasion. Is that racism? I dont know. Its annoyance, but I would behave in the exact same way if I moved to Hong Kong, I'd seek out a white area, congregate with other people just like me and want to retain my ways and culture. Of course I would. I think it becomes racism when I assume that somebody is fundamentally different or lesser than me becuase they are of a different race, and I agree with Laurend that there is a priviledge element to it. There's no way that this particular group of migrants isnt enjoying everything most white Australians enjoy - in fact as a fairly wealthy, educated group they are definitely higher up the social ladder than a lot of white Australians. Its entirely different when you're a muslim immigrant living in an inner city ghetto, with poor health care and education choices and the horrid stigma of your "violent race" being held against you. There is definitely racism in Australia on that score, and it makes me sick to be honest. I dont think reverse racism exits - resentment and hatred exists quite naturally but I dont belive you can be the subject of racism from a group that is socially and economically disadvantaged in comparison to you. There's nothing quite so priviledged as being white and middle class. I think stereotypes come into being because a discernable pattern exists, so yes, I think they are warranted to a degree, afterall, I certainly fit many stereotypes myself. But people only think of stereotype as a negative thing, they focus on the negative and stereotype that.

But no one's saying, Oh, she's a fat pig, she's disgusting, she cant control herself, she should go and get surgery. They're observing that these people are following the same struggle many of us did, losing, regaining PLUS some over and over again and that a lap band would help. How is that offensive or nasty, rude or intrusive?. Bald fact is, when you are fat, everyone can see it and people ARE going to make judgements about it whether you like it or not. Even when you're not fat, people make judgements about you based on what you look like. There's no hard and fast rules of course, but in general you can tell all sorts of things - what sort of demographic someone fits, how much money they have, what sort of education they had, where they grew up, all those things are observable. And to be honest, I was fat because I ate too much, exercised poor self control and sat around on my lardy butt all day doing nothing much. Those arent really the most desirable tributes, even to me who exhibited them. I wanted to change becuase those arent things I find admirable or likeable in others, so I was unhappy about having them myself. I dont find it particularly offensive that people think that about fat people, what I find offensive is that they also assume stuff like they're dirty, messy, have no brains because those things ARENT true. But sitting around saying wow Kirstey Alley really could benefit from a lap band is nothing more than an observation that she struggles with her weight. Its not necessarily a personal judgement on her. I dont KNOW whether I've been judged harshly becuase of my weight. I've never really felt so I admit, but that could because generally I dont give a flying f.ck what people think anyway.

Its not necessarily nasty speculation though. I mean, I've been fat, I've got an eating problem and I need a lapband, I certainly dont judge others as lesser beings because of it - although I can be harsh on people who are babies about exercise, lol. But its frustrating to see someone like Kirstey Alley fight with her weight, lose tons, PUT HERSELF OUT THERE for all the kudos and congratulations (I mean, she could just quietly lose it and let the public speculate, but no, she made a BIG deal of it) and then regain it. When you know a lapband's primary advantage is in keeping the weight off, its hard not to think they're making the wrong choice by not having one. Same with Oprah, its not as if she just quietly struggles with her weight, she makes it all very public - to me, it only follows that people who tire of hearing about it are going to be critical when she regains.

Oh, I couldnt bear to leave that, lol, I'd have to set them right on the incontinence!

Sigh, yes money more so than time. We're just not at a stage of life where it would be a good idea to spend $10,000 on a pair of boobs. We have 3 kids to educate and put through university when they finish school and I"ve not even returned to work yet! I doubt I'll get anything done, but if I could afford it I would. I'm definitely not anti surgery, but I think that it can be hard to separate the really worthwhile procedures from worrying about every little detail about yourself iykwim? I'm afraid that if I did go in to have a breast lift, then next thing I'd want a tummy tuck, then a bum lift, then I'd start worrying that I was looking old in the face....... Its kind of like opening Pandora's chest, lol.

*snort*, now THAT would be an Oprah show worth tuning into.

Oh boy, big hair. Stylish, not. Erk. I used to use a can of hairspray at a time. And I had a book that had instructions for about 50 different styles of eye makup involving about five colours each, gawd, is it any wonder I wear virtually NO make up now? I dont remember that show though, but SheSmiles does so it must have aired here. I remember more fondly bands like Wham - and those Tshirts are all the rage again now here, and Australian bands like Skyhooks, Cold Chisel, Australian Crawl, oh, remember Human League and Duran Duran? I saw Tears for Fears in concert too. And I loved Style Council.

I think they're healthy foods and wouldnt see why you would need to limit them. They're starchier than other choices, but in the context of a lapbander's diet they're hardly excessive.

What's wrong with me that I think Queen Latifah is HUUUUUGE? Seriously, I do. It just goes to show that each of us has our own opinion of beauty, and that you are never going to be attractive to some people and will always be gorgeous in the eyes of others no matter what your size. I only think Oprah NEEDS a Lap Band so she'll shut her mouth and go away. I cant bear her, she's even worse than Dr Phil. Maybe if she got thin and stayed that way she'd shut up? Going by your standards Hope, you'd probably think I didnt need one either. You sound suspciously like you think only certain people are worthy..... whereas I think even some thin people need a lapband if staying that way is ruling their lives to an unhealthy degree. I freely admit I do not understand the issues of being truly morbidly obese because I never have been and I can be like the rest of the general public in being judgemental about it because I just cant put myself in that position.

I had a BMI of 35 when banded, and I had to lose 40lb before anyone really noticed I'd lost weight, and it was more like 60lb before people started really gushing. I didnt have an obvious problem spot, I'm tall and more pear shaped and people always said "you carry your weight well". Well that kind of applies on the way down, lol, if I was hiding it well, that meant it didnt look that obvious that I was losing it. But once I'd lost about 60, I started getting a shock when I caught sight of myself unexpectedly.

I really dont know how much it would be. I know at mealtime I can compare to others and I eat about the same amount as my teeny tiny 43kg sister in law, lol. Normal amounts of food, not little enough to cause comment unless we're in a situation where people eat a LOT like when you get a big meal in a restaurant and barely touch it. I can eat about 3/4 of a tuna sandwich, I can eat an ordinary sized bowl of Cereal (like the serving size recommended), I can eat ONE slice of relatively thin toast, or piece of meat about the size of a deck of cards, a small scoop of mashed potato and 1/2 steamed veg for dinner.

I can eat everything pretty much, though foods like McDonalds and pizza are highly likely to at least cause discomfort, and often PBing, so I really dont eat them anymore, at all. I dont miss them, same as you dont miss seafood when you've had food poisoning and associate it ever after with horrendous puking. I eat a normal diet, Protein, carbs, plenty of fruit and veg and lowish fat.

Same thing happened to me. I expected to get the larger band, being 5ft 10 and used to feeling like a giant. But I didnt have a lot of internal fat and quite small organs, so I got the smaller one, 4cc. Its worked fine for me. And as I've lost weight, I've realised that though tall, I'm rather small framed. You simply cannot tell till they open you up. A band is a band really. Its not logical to have a preference, you want the one that will work best for YOU, and your surgeon is the best judge of that when he sees what's inside.

This is common I would think, I know I feel it myself. I'm 40 now and I feel like I wasted my years to look good by being fat, truth is I didnt, I looked great in my 20's and wasnt very fat for very long. But I could have been so FIT, like I am now and I wasnt :tt2: Anyway, to a degree I think you have to stop and realise that you WILL get old. There is nothing you can do about it and when you look at Hollywood starlets with all their botox and facelifts etc they look absolutely stupid, they just look like women in their mid 40's with loads of work done, which then of course makes people judge them as vain, shallow and stupid. Look at Nicole Kidman. Most of you wont even remember her when she was a young girl, she was a moderate star in Australia before she married Tom Cruise, and she had carrot red, super frizzy hair and freckles, completely flat chested. And she was utterly gorgeous in a very unique girl next door kind of way, with all that akwardness of a very tall girl who was 5ft 10 at 12 years old, it was a very endearing quality she had. She looks freaking awful now, I dont know if anyone agrees with me, but I think she looks like an alien. I've seen your photo, you're lovely looking! You look like an attractive woman in her late forties to early fifties. What on earth is wrong with that? The trouble is with these things that yes, a little work on the eyes or the jowels might freshen your look but then you think , hmm, well I've done that, I should do my nose, etc etc. I find it with myself, I do want my boobs done but then I think well my arse looks like a sock full of coins, and then there *is* a bit of loose skin on the tummy and before I know it, in my head I'm up to $40,000 worth of cosmetic surgery. And in all honesty, my best feature is my upper body, I have good shoulders and upper arms, nice collarbones and a long neck. If I had a really good pair of tits there too, nobody would ever LOOK below the waist, lol. We really are our own harshest critics. I know that wont help, you'll still keep thinking about it, but you're not vain or silly, I think its natural to feel that way after losing a lot of weight, we've never BEEN beautiful before! But you are what you are, you will ALWAYS look like you and you will be 80 one day, no matter what you do to your face now. Sooner or later I think we have to stop and realise we are good enough. And I'm not saying you do, but some of us might need some professional help with that.

I believe in fiber too, from wholegrains. And I eat them, although possibly I'm the only one here who does. I am anti anti anti cutting out the entire carbohydrate group. I think low GI carbs (as on oatmeal, muesli, stoneground wholemeal bread etc) are important foods, and our bodies need carbs for energy. You *may* be able to get enough fibre and carbs from fruit and vegetables if you're not banded, but banded, there's no way on earth. I also think that if you have to remove a foodgroup to lose weight, then add back in fiber in artificual form such as metamucil or benefibre then you cannot possibly argue that you have a healthy diet. Good nutrition for optimal health and the best way to eat for maximum weight loss are not necessarily one adn the same thing. Yes, a high Protein low carb diet works to strip weight but that doesnt mean you've done a whole lot for your health. Your bowel health, energy and Vitamin and mineral balance are important too and man does not live on Protein shakes alone. I really LOVE it when people argue that prehistoric man wasnt into agriculture so didnt eat grains then go on to extol the virtues of protein shakes. Last time I read a history book, prehistoric man didnt live on whey protein isolates either. Personally I think you'll find you can tolerate some carb foods, particularly oatmeal and muesli, if not actual bread, and probably small amounts of Pasta and brown rice. And you might find like me, that THOSE are the foods that fill you up so that you dont have to be tight as a fish's proverbial to keep from overeating.

Its not definite that you'll need further surgery. I think its highly highly unlikely that you wont have *any* lose skin but whether its a problematic amount or not is down to luck. I have loose skin but not problematic amounts of it. So I'll never be a swimsuit model, big deal. But I dont have to tuck my stomach into my pants either, so it is possible!