Jachut

Well, you're kind of right Kat, although I'm not so egotistical as to think that *everyone* wants and needs my help. But yes, its frustration. The biggest thing about losing weight is realising that only you can do it. No, its not fair. Yes, its awful to be burdened with this cursed appetite/metablism/depression (insert your own afflictions here). What's the choice? You live with it and learn to manage it or you dont. For those that dont, the agression and hatred poured onto those who have had success is quite astounding at times. Rather than think well this person's had some success, maybe what she's saying is worth thinking about. I can decide to use it or not, but perhaps its worth listening. Or then again, maybe that would make me really LOOK at myself so why dont I just turn it into a fight instead. That way I can make her look bad and continue feeling OK about my own choices. Frustrating is right! I dont mind a bit of a whinge session. I can even be helpful when people have eaten 3 chickens and their cat whilst still on liquids. But the endless pity parties, ugh.

It is, its really hard and to slip up is human. I guess you've just got to bear in mind that to slip up in this stage *could* cause damage. YOu know, I think the eating plan there is very hard. Here we're told liquids are what goes up a straw, and given lots of ideas to at least give flavour and texture variety in our liquid diet. There is absolutely NO need to try to live on Water and Protein shakes. It pays to remember too that cheating on day 15 if you've had to do 3 weeks liquids isnt quite the same as cheating on day 4. I mean, many people only have to do 2 weeks of liquids. And 2 weeks of Clear Liquids, that's really really really hard. Most people dont have to do that. But we've all dieted for a few weeks at a time, it is doable and you'd think that with the commitment of having just had surgery, it'd be easier than most other times.

Yes, I try to eat "clean" for want of a better desription. I do eat processed foods too, but I try to keep the majority of what I eat fresh and I would never eat a meal that came in a box and lived in the freezer. To me, a "Protein shake" would be something you made with milk, yogurt, a fresh banana and an egg. I dont think a Protein shake is the root of all evil, but every single day? All that artificial sweetner and soy based protein? I'd prefer not. Luckily, what I do is how we're told to eat here in Australia. If I were in the US, I would just plain ignore a nutritionist who advised me to do the high protein/low carb protein shake thing. I wouldnt do it. It MIGHT be the way to lose lots of weight quite fast. That doesnt necessarily make it the best overall diet for your health. In the same way that weight lifters eat high protein diets and look amazing, but cant run round the block or die of heart attacks at 40. What makes your body LOOK incredible isnt necessarily making it healthy. But that said, I do believe that lowER carb is a good practice, wholegrains are important but nobody really needs white bread.

Are you serious? Or are you thinking "what you said pissed me off so I'm going to just say somthing snippy, no matter how stupid it is"? Seriously BJ, that's a really idiotic thing to say. That's right up there with the "if I could do that I wouldnt need a lapband" line of thinking.

The body is weird how it does that, but if you're losing inches you're losing FAT and that's what matters. Sooner or later it will show on the scale too. DH got banded 2 weeks ago, lost 5kg within a week and has stayed the same since. Yet remarkably, his face and chest look WAY thinner suddenly today. The inches are what's important.

A liquid is technically anything that can go up a straw and at 10 days out they can be quite thick. There isnt any need to live on shakes. You could blend up a decent Soup - one that contains meat and Pasta for example. If you need to thin it, do so with some chicken stock or a canned tomatoes, Water or milk, depending what it is. You can also blend fruit, yogurt and an egg with some flavouring, it doesnt have that horrid soy-ish Protein shake taste. You can put bran or other Cereal in it too. You can thin anything to a liquid, even a roast dinner. Just make it into a savoury soup with stock. Just keep it to healthy, energy giving foods and dont eat them in solid form until you are allowed to.

Yes, it kind of ties in with my which kind are you post over in Rants n Raves. I cant understand it. I just cant understand how anybody can be determined enough to fix their weight problem to have surgery, to invest the kind of money it costs you guys over there and then CHEAT! Its incredible. I really hope they can just get back on the bike and keep going. Because to me, it just doesnt say an awful lot about your commitment to the band, nor an understanding of how the band really works. My DH is worrying me. He was banded 2 weeks ago. He was perfect on liquids, but what he says is a mushie and what IS a mushie is two different things. I lost tons of weight in the first few weeks, was lucky to have awesome restriction and I honestly found it super easy. He's got his appetite back really soon and no restriction at all. I'm having to bite my tongue and remind myself this time is for healing, and that the band doesnt really work well till its filled. But potato chips are NOT a mushie, grrrrrr. And what happened to the "I'm going to power walk every day?".

I picked mid point in my healthy weight range. I'd like to go a bit lower, but it will take quite a lot of hard work and sacrifice at this point in time, and I'm not sure its really worth it. I"m good at maintenance, suck at dieting. I got here without really dieting but to lose any more would mean DIETING. Ugh. Not sure. I'd love to be 65kg but I suspect I may look a bit old and gaunt that low too. Really, it would be better to get lipo on my fat bum and leave my upper body the way it is, lol.

SheSmiles, Holy Smokes indeed! Whew. Jaime, doesnt it make you cross when people just write you off as strong? Its not a complement, its an invented excuse for themselves and why they've not achieved what they wanted. They're not infusing "strong" with admiration for you, they're using it to say "you're different therefore it was easier for you". Drives me nuts. I did the Run to the G this morning in Melbourne, did 10km in 55 minutes!!!! In the pouring rain and I fuelled my personal best by pouring all the aggression that other thread built up in me, lol. Isnt it poetic justice when someone's whining and excuse making that leaves them a big fat nowhere leads to success for the person they'd most like to stab, roflmao!!!

Way to Go Froggi! That's awesome.

Fairy, I saw you post anyway as it came thru my email. It wasnt stupid. Believe it or not, I eat badly too sometimes. I would gain weight if I lost my band. I've only exercised three times this week. Like you say though, you're not "pity partying". The pitypartying is what bugs me, not the falling off the wagon bit. We all do that. We've all been fat, we're all trying to get better. I didnt run this week as much as usual. I've been busy. But have I *really* not had half an hour to run every day? No. I could have gotten up early, I could have got on the treadmill at midnight if I had to. I didnt do it today when I had a two hour break between the boys' basketball games becuase I didnt want to get my hair sweaty. Whose fault is it? Do I say "oh, boo hoo cant exercise coz I'm too busy" or do I say "If I'm honest, I really didnt make best use of my time this week?". I'd choose the latter. Eating bad, not exercising, we ALL do that from time to time. Its not a hanging offense. The other thing I've noticed, is that since I've been this weight most of the last year and my daughter started school this year, and I've started working as well as studying etc etc, there's more and more people in my life who never knew me fat. They assume I've been this way all my life. Most of the mums at school are significantly overweight. So so many times things have been said to me along the lines (because in any group of women, dieting is a big topic!) of "you're so lucky, you must have a good metabolism", or "you dont have to worry". You know, nobody thin ever says that. Because they know that they cant just eat what they want when the want and not burn it off. But it seems that people who struggle with their weight cant face thinking of it in terms of "she works for it and I dont" so they have to turn it into "lucky". I did it myself, said the same thing many times. Now that's not done maliciously or with any nasty intention, its just a complete failure to think about one's weight as one's own responsibility and acknowledge that someone else has made different choices to you. Its endlessly fascinating to me. What comes first, the weight problem or does the attitude predispose a person to developing a weight problem? Because I've seen the same thing said here in different guises. "You're lucky you can exercise becuase you have a passion for it, I dont". No,that's not right. I exercise because I make different choices to you (not meaning anyone specific of course!). I'm feeling less nasty about this now and more like analysing it and trying to understand it. I was really angry when I posted this morning. As you can probably tell, lol.

Yep, roadblocks happen all the time. You've had a hard time SheSmiles, I've been reading your blog. We all need to have a whinge about stuff like that from time to time. Its a credit to you that you're out running again, and you've kept your weight remarkably in check. I really admire that. You've got some guts and determination. See, its got nothing to do with the size of someone's body or whether they've been "successful" or not. This thread isnt even about fat or thin. Its about attitude. Having a whinge about some bad luck is cathartic. Bad luck is when your knee gives out on you or you suffer a slippage or erosion. Bad luck is if you break your arm. Bad luck isnt when you find you can still eat a quarterpounder and do so every single day (which I probably would if I could, lol) and then blame it on your cat dying when you were ten.

Exactly. I dont even have a problem when people decide it wasnt for them. That they cant lose weight. As long as they can admit "I cant lose weight becuase I'm not ready to make the changes". Just get outta my face with the "I cant lose weight becuase everything has conspired against me". Man, it drives me insane. I feel the same way about some of my bestest friends and their parenting woes. You have a baby and then spend your time whining about how you cant cope with the lack of sleep? What did you expect? Everyday mothers day with Hallmark cardsw and Breakfast in bed? Sheesh. You knew it was hard going in. Quite whining and get on with it. Its not that I dont understand it, I've been through it three times, and can commiserate when someone says "gee, I'm exhausted today". But neverending moaning, wining, crying and carrying on with "this is soooo hard", aaaaaaargh.

Lol, yeah, I'm going to get it. I've just had a gutful of this shite though. I understand it too, like you say Laurend. I dont expect people to be perfect. I didnt lose weight by being damn perfect every single day. I have off days too. I fall off the wagon. I eat too much. But I dont come here crying and asking for pats on the back for it, for justification of my denial. THAT's what annoys me. Not that people arent perfect but that they're here seeking justification. They dont seem to able to say "well, I fecked that up, but I'll do better tomorrow".

Ps: nobody need answer, lol I feel better for just having SAID it. Pah!

Which reminds me, I havent had my fruit OR my vitamins yet today!

Because Brandy, I didnt attack the thread! I said it was possible to have self esteem when you are fat, but that the behaviours that lead many people to being fat are not a source of pride or self love. Its the same as dealing with a child, you still love your child when they're kicking and screaming on the supermarket floor, you just dont love their behaviour right at that moment. There is no rule on this forum that when you reply, you can only do so if you are going to totally agree with the OP. If you cant take it Brandy then dont ask for the opinions. That's my opinion. It was stated perfectly reasonably. It was you that turned it into the fat/thin thing yet again, it was you that completely misconstrued what I said, it was you that said that I had made derogatory comments about fat people. I have not once said that you need to be thin to have self esteem and it mystifies me that you insist on reading that into what I'm saying. I've never once said either that being thin is the only way to be happy. It is really pissing me off that you are insisting on thinking that this is what I'm saying, when I dont think that way at all. Utter Twaddle means that what you are saying is rubbish. You are inventing your own meanings from my posts in order to fuel your rant. That's what it means. It means that you're living in a fairytale where you think that being good to yourself means completely ignoring what you committed to facing when you got banded. Why does this matter to me? Well at first I cared, I thought I had some help to offer. Now I realise that it means less than nothing to me on the opposite side of the world. But I do care that everyone else here thinks that I have no compassion for fat people, as if I've never BEEN one for pete's sake. I also realise I'm talking in generalisations. You cant preface everything you say with "I know this doesnt apply to absolutely everyone...." Not everyone approaches things the same way. My no bullshit approach is not for everyone. But it DOES help some people and just because it threatens your little self constructed fantasy world does not mean I have no right to express it. Now I'd suggest that the poster above me is right. This thread is for positive contribution and I'd say that the way its turned is only 50% my fault, BrandyII you're at least as responsible. So if you want to continue this, lets take it over to R&R. Start a new thread if you'd like to. But out of respect for the other posters, I think its done here, agreed?

Oh, golly, I'm failing already. I have to have the last word! I should have closed this thread before I went out but its just there taunting me. I dont believe in taking things private and attacking people by PM so I'll say it here. Brandy, grow up. I removed that post precisely because I realised it was too strongly worded, well before you'd replied to it. And I did it without any catty little notes on the bottom. its never been about fat or thin to me. I dont care about the size of someone's body. There's some awesome people here, people who are strong, determined, who face challenges and do their darndest. You know, they're not all thin either - actually since I've never met them, I really cant form opinions of them based on how they look can I?. They're just genuinely interesting, smart, efficient people. Then there's wimpy excuse making whiners, ahem, like yourself. I'm sorry to bust your bubble my dear. Your continuing insistence to view this as a fat or thin issue is simply another manifestation of your inability to face your issues. You cannot accept that I just plain think you're an ineffective personality, so you must turn it into I dont like you because you're fat. Sorry also that you appear not to be able to read. I think I said that being fat and having self esteem were not mutually exclusive. Or is that too many big words for you? You come here, ask for advice and then turn petulant when the opinions dont justify your own self delusions. Its exactly like the thread in R&R, all hunky dory whilst people are saying "poor baby, its not your fault" and then all claws when someone disagrees. When you put yourself out there, you get all sorts of opinion back. Mine included. I think my original post was quite appropriate, despite me not knowing what forum I was in. It need not have caused any debate. It wasnt desgned to. But because it challenged your precarious view of the world with you as helpless victim, it turned bad. Get some help, seriously.

Ah, didnt I just say that? I believe my exact words were: Our self esteem improves the minute we start this journey, to face the behaviours, make the decision to change them and take positive steps towards doing so is good for the soul. The excitement and pride in people's words as they see the first pounds go, its amazing. Goal weight is irrelevant to the self esteem that comes from behaving differently. Not really sure where you get the idea that this is about fat or thin, I simply said my self esteem improved when I quite behaving in a way I found slovenly. Why that's so offensive to you I dont quite know. Can you show me an obese person who doesnt overeat? Can you show me one who does and feels great about it? You make a good point about this being on a mental health board. I unreservedly apologise for that. I hit "new posts", I never check where I am. This forum does not function well like that. You dont ask for such stringent disagreement unless you're in Rants n Raves. I think it would be best for both of us if I could summon up enough willpower to block your posts (but I dont think I can!). I cannot not react to you. I just cant help it. Your self justifications are just too intriguing. There's being kind to yourself, I agree with that, I even agree with the not dieting and just trying to find balance bit, but every word you say contradicts it. You dont piss me off, I dont dislike you or even know you. You fascinate me. I sit here with my mouth open, in disbelief. I must set the record straight. I was 5ft 10 at 12 years old. I was always heavy, not obese but big and unfeminine. I know what it is to be a physical freak. I carried that baggage into adulthood. In Australia, where super obesity or even morbid obesity is much rarer, I certainly know what it is to be the biggest woman in the room. Anyway, I promise, if I cant stay out of it, I really will think about blocking your posts so I cant bother you any more. In the meantime, I cannot promise I wont be reading, but I'll try to hold my tongue.

I'd also go so far as to say that for many who get fat, their bodies work way too efficiently. You'd think a 150lb woman who ran an hour a day and ate 1800 calories would lose weight (albeit quite slowly) wouldnt you? Not so, that's maintenance for me. All the calculators say I should be eating 2,500 or so. Many with bands dont lose unless they drop below 1000 calories a day. Technically, nobody should have to do that. Genetics is virtually never the sole reason for being fat. There's nearly always overeating and underexercising involved. But I can tell you that for a 6ft 3 260lb guy, my DH doesnt eat a lot. Three meals a day. Largish, but not huge. Healthy foods. He's gotten to a BMI of 35 and been banded 2 weeks ago. Down to 600 calories a day on fluids, he's lost 13lb. 13lb in 2 weeks is not to be sneezed at but sheesh. On 600 calories a day? You'd think he'd be disappearing before my very eyes. Hmm, what else? I agree with plain, eating ONLY when you're hungry and following the rules 100% will work for almost anyone. People by and large dont do it. And you get slacker with time too. The old habits do begin to creep back in. I cant gain weight, I'd have to binge on ice cream and chocolate and stop running to do it. My band works pretty well. But I'm lucky. I get good, even restriction from my fills, without issues. I'm not tight in the morning, loose at night, there's not many foods I cant eat, I'm just a text book case I guess. But I'm not about to test it out, I keep my behaviours in check and do what I know I should. And I think you'll find in any obese community, you'll find a larger than average contingent of people who dont want to face reality. They wont accept reponsibility for thier weight, they're motivated to fix it, they get banded, but dont really want to face the reality of it being their own choices that got them into this mess and their own choices that will get them out of it. They get banded and .... wait for a miracle. Those personality traits seem to go hand in hand with obesity.

BrandyII, why cant we simply face this issue? Why do we always have to talk around it? Why cant we "go there"? I dont think it bothers most people. We're here because we have thought about these issues and decided we want to change behaviours that are destructive to our happiness and health. We're here becuase we've taken the very brave and confronting step of having surgery which will just about ensure that some of those self defeating but very comfortable habits are going to be blown out of the Water. That's the scariest thing of all about getting banded! I did NOT just intimate that everyone here is a fat lazy goodfornothing slob. And most people know that. I did NOT make derogatory remarks about fat people, I made remarks about certain negative behaviours which many of us share and do not find conducive to good self esteem. What we all have in common here is overeating and underexercising AND the fact that those behaviours have not made us happy. Furthermore we are all here becuase we want to change. So I fail to see how stating that is derogatory or offensive. Our self esteem improves the minute we start this journey, to face the behaviours, make the decision to change them and take positive steps towards doing so is good for the soul. The excitement and pride in people's words as they see the first pounds go, its amazing. Goal weight is irrelevant to the self esteem that comes from behaving differently. Not go there? Its the first place we need to go!

Dont go until your incisions are fully healed and cover them when you do or you can end up with them permanently red/purple. I have to agree with above though, tanning is bad. If you want a bunch of loose stomach skin, baking yourself in a tanning bed is a great way to accelerate that. It ages you faster than anything.

sea bands really helped me. And ice cold soda water with ice cubes.

Losing weight seems to have sparked off some real menstrual difficulties for me, one of which includes possible endometriosis on my sciatic nerve. I've always had light periods and dont bleed very heavily but at the moment am very concerned that its day 5 and still going, as my periods usually last no longer than 3 days. I've still got pain and cramping too. Sigh. Dont wanna have to deal with this really.

I've well down the path of this journey and can barely rememeber how listless and tired I used to feel. Exercise is the key to feeling fantastic, once you get fit and past the exhaustion of forcing your body to move so much more. I run regularly for exercise, although I've been trying to to do other things too for variety and overall health. I have a treadmill at home that I used to do weights circuits a couple of times a week, these are aerobically very intense, but also involve good strenght building and save my knees, back and feet from the concrete pounding. However, at the moment its loads and loads and loads of running and walking, my DH got banded and needs to walk for exercise at the moment, but he's the type that wont do it without company, he's not that self motivated. So I've been "walking the Doug" every night, lol, an 8km circuit. Trouble is I've got my goals with my running and dont want to lose my running fitness by just walking. so.... at the moment an 8km run and an 8km walk each day this week. Sheesh, I'm exhausted. Its too much even for me, I'm going to end up injured.