Jachut

OK Mekadig, the bikini's off. I'm sitting here in my jammies actually. Reflecting on how I know absolutely nothing about losing weight and have no right to assume I have any mettle, you know, I've never overcome any adversity at all. From a yes, you're 26, a 26 year old. Oh boy. Will you cringe in about 10 years. Funny how when you think like a victim, everything seems judgemental and patronising. My 70 year old dad has sleep apnoea. Funny how he walks for an hour and a half every morning and isnt overweight. Things that make you go hmmmmmm........ By the way have you ever HAD a baby? Or did all of your wisdom about how easy pregnancy is come straight out of your back passage?

I didnt count to lose, I counted nothing, I ate by satisfiaction and I didnt cut out any foods. I dont really believe that swapping a Protein focus for a calorie one is gong to help anyone to recover from obesity. I felt it was very very important to learn to eat all foods in moderation and if I had days when I really really felt like a donut, or whatever, then I had it. I ate bread and Pasta all the way through too becuase I dont believe that in moderation those are unhealthy. In short, I totally quit dieting and just went with portion control. But that doenst mean I ate whatever I wanted whenever I felt a random urge either, I did a lot of thinking about whether I really wanted it etc. But in reality, you know that if your diet is based on large portions of unhealthy foods, you will be fat, so the band controlled the portions and I made good choices 9/10 of the time. This calorie counting exercise for me now is just to guide my portion size again, since my band has been unfilled a teeny bit and I'm actually quite hungry. I am trying to work out what my body will burn off now that I want to maintain and whether my appetite now is appropriate to my energy needs. I just figure that at maintenance, if you're hungry and you eat and you dont gain weight then that hunger is not inappropriate you know? So there's no need to quell it with a tighter band. But if I begin to gain, then I know I need to be less hungry and should be refilled some.

I dont know that a fill will help, honestly, in fact you might need just the opposite. I got to exactly the same place as you only I was lucky enough to get there well below my original goal weight. But I was eating tons of chocolate, eating muffins, slices etc, and not eating anywhere near enough solid Protein, fruit or vegetables. I didnt eat Breakfast or lunch, I was just grazing all day. I stopped losing well and truly, but the quantities were small and there was no gaining, thank goodness. But nonetheless i realised I'd fallen off the wagon and had to get back on. The minute you put that pressure on yourself, it gets even harder, doesnt it? Thank god I love running the way I do. Its not connected to my weight or what I eat anymore, its just something that I do. So my exercise schedule was never disrupted. I went through about three months of this, off and on. I'd pull myself together for a few weeks and then be off again. I decided I needed a fill, so I went and got a tiny one. For a few weeks it was awesome, I lost weight, got to 68kg, unheard of, I was beyond thrilled. Then gradually my eating habits slid again until it really got terrible and I was barely eating anything much at all other than crap since every single healthy food was just too hard. No reflux or pbing, just terrible eating habits. And my running was suffering. It took a weekend away with other people commenting on was I anorexic, eat something for crying out loud for me to move, but I went and got an unfill. For the first time in my weight loss journey, I've begun logging in and calorie counting to try to reteach myself what a healthy portion of healthy food is, to regain my confidence in listening to my body and eating properly. I'm much hungrier since the unfill but I'm able to fill myself with healthy food, so the overall quality of my diet has improved tenfold, I'm back to eating meals, not grazing, with Snacks. I've gained maybe 2lb, nothign more than a resettling of fluids, my clothes all fit the same, but I am finding it easy once again to eat properly and not crave all the junk. The cravings happen because you're body is starving and not being adequately nourished. When you're like that and think you're being a pig, a fill will NOT help you, it will probably worsen the situation. If you struggle with eating enough healthy foods, then you really should try an unfill, if you can be brave enough, I found it VERY confronting to try it, I was so afraid of gaining. And at the very least, start exercising again, it really does help to prevent weight regain.

Hey Deanna, you're doing GREAT. Where have you been for so long? Out riding,lol?

This is an issue that I dont believe if talked about or focussed on enough, but at least you recognise it in yourself. Learning not to diet is very very difficult and very very scary. I honestly dont believe dieting works. Oh, I mean, if you eat perfect calories and perfect ratios of protein/carbs/fats you will lose weight. If you methodically balance it out with exercise you will lose weight. But it is not sustainable for most people long term. Logging everything you eat, fussing over every decision, most people live lives that demand they just eat when its time to (as in a lunchbreak) or when they're hungry, they eat what's available at the time and they shop at the supermarket, not at a zillion speciality stores. Logging calories can also lead to bad decisions - you start eating processed foods like Lean Cuisines because that's so darn easy to count, no measuring etc or you start allowing yourself that 600 calories for a Big Mac and then eat carrots for the rest of the day to make up for it. Big dysfunctional tick over that one. How does THAT help anyone to develop a normal relationship with food? Yet calorie counting can be worthwhile. I'm doing it now, not to lose weight but to gradually transition myself onto a normal diet to maintain this weight loss for life. I've maintained for about a year now without doing that, but I did continue to lose and I've got to the point where I really dont want or need to lose more. But I find it very very confronting to be "free" to eat what I want. I'm just logging onto calorie king for a while to really remind myself what 1500 calories of healthy food, little daily treats (like a skinny latte) and the odd indulgence of chocolate really truly looks like. If you eat healthy, you can eat a LOT of food. I want to eat healthy. Which is why I had a small unfill recently since its healthier to eat a sandwich, an apple, some Breakfast Cereal and a coffee over the course of breakfast and lunch than it is to have a piece of lemon coconut slice (becuase it goes down and fits in) and a coffee at the shop. For the same calories. But whilst mentally I can cope with the lemon slice becuase its a small portion of food, I find I break into a cold sweat at the thought of cereal AND sandwich AND fruit! Over the course of 3 year banded,my mind had definitely come to see a tiny amount of food as normal and a normal amount of food as a huge amount. So I'm counting calories to teach myself a new lifetime habit of moderate amounts (larger than losing weight bandster portions) of healthy foods. Its not that easy, its as much of an education as suddenly finding yourself banded is. It requires breaking ingrained patterns and thought processes that developed while I was banded - because those arent ALL good. I definitely came to prefer a carb snack and coffee to a real lunch! But to lose weight I didnt diet. I didnt refuse myself any foods or cut out any food groups. I now have an almostd"normal" relationship with all foods I've got the mix down pat, its just that now I need to reassure my anxious mind that its OK for portions to increase a bit. My unfill has made me hungrier and I want to eat between meals again, that's OK if I have a healthy snack, but I'm finding I need the evidence on paper, much more than I did for losing. Because I want a long and healthy life and I want to keep running and to do that you need to be well nourished, not living on 600 calories a day made up of Protein and little else. Not that I ever did that either, but you get my drift. Does any of that makes sense or help at all? I think that you need to try to go easier on it, allow some treats in there, PLAN for them and really make the effort to include them so you're not so afraid of food in general. The odd burger or fries never hurt anyone but as they're so hard to eat when you're banded and well filled, you probably wont want them anyway, so the habit does die. Now I can probably afford to have them again, I dont want them anyway. I'm trying to teach myself proper portions of GOOD foods.

It was more the original poster that peeved me Greythorpe, no need to apologise.

Good for you greythorpe. Start small. Do what you can and just commit to a routine of it, even if its just 15 minutes a day. One thing about being exhuasted and exercising, as has been pointed out to me, I dont even know what REAL exhaustion is, but I've certainly been feet dragging, sit on the couch and I will be asleep, I havent had time to eat or pee all damn day and my feet are pounding from being on themand I cant even remember driving home weary when I've gotten in at 7pm at night. I've known the feeling of knowing I have to at least do half an hour on the treadmill and feeling simply unable to face it. I just start. I promise myself I can stop after 15 minutes. You know what, I never ever do. The endorphins kick in as the heart rate rises and I always, without fail, feel better when I've finished. The fog of exhustion lifts, I always feel more energised. I've also been pregnant 3 times and that first trimester tiredness would rival anything sleep apnoea can cause, I'll guarantee it. Insane tiredness, fall asleep in public places, in danger of falling asleep at the traffic lights tired, and I walked through that for an hour three or four times a week in my third pregnancy because I was 104kg and the thought of gettign to like 130 frightened the living daylights out of me. I was very very very motivated to not gain weight in that pregnancy. It didnt quite have the same effect then, but it was doable. And it probably wasnt quite so energising because you only get that endorphin rush when you do crazy stuff like get your heart rate up into the 160's, which obviously is not a good idea when you're up the duff. Plus everytime I bent over I threw up. But for sure, absolutely, for many people, that level of exercise cannot possibly come until some weight has gone. And initially it will fall off without exercise if that's how it has to be. But surely, people could at least start putting the routines in place, setting aside the time etc. Paving the way for real fitness further down the track? This topic always gets tetchy, but honestly you have no idea how annoying it is when people intimate that yes, that's OK for you but you dont face the challenges I do. Its very insulting.

I'm going to have a breast lift but probably not implants unless it is the lift by itself wont be enough to fill out the loose skin. But its only down at a BMI of 22 that I can consider this, my boobs were the last things to shrink. I'm finding that last bit of weight loss, even 4lb made WAY more difference than the first 96lb. Everything is getting a bit saggy now. I really am better off not to lose anymore weight whilst its only my boobs I have to fix! So I'd say yes, you need to wait till you're at your goal weight. It might make all the difference - you'll either be decided that you want implants or it may seem like not such a good idea. I've got that kind of chest now - thin, ribs showing and very defined collarbones, where an implant would likely have that very stark contrast of the melons on the chest look, I dont have enough fat and softness on my chest to blend them in, given that I would need the round implants to fill out the loose skin.

You've just hit the hail right on the head. Very best of luck with your weigh loss, once you've admitted that to yourself, then you're on your way. I really believe that. Its the most important factor of all. MORE important than what you eat or what exercise you do.

I think the ads have a lot to do with it. Its marketed as a miracle cure. Although I've jsut been totally put back in my place in another thread. Someone posted asking if there was anyone else NOT exercising. There arent many. But of course I piped up (in a most respectful manner). Only to be told I dont have sleep apnoea so I cant possibly know so my opinion counts for jack shit. What do people WANT? Honestly this person obviously wants a million people to post back saying its OK to not do any exercise. I've said it a million times before. There are a ton of people here who are vibrant, clever, motivated people who just happen to suffer weight problems. And then there are the fat people. To which fat happens, and its not their fault, never their fault and there's a million reasons not to accept responsibility for that. They're probably the ones who ring the 1800 number after the ad and have surgery 24 hours later THEN decide they'd better find out a bit about it. Like they just ordered the amazing new Bodytrim system or the Ablounge or something. Bloody obesity related sleep apnoea, makes you sit up watching infomercials all night and before you know it ou've got a freaking LAP BAND. I am no longer going to be offended though. Thanks to some of the lovely comments above and our myriad of discussions on this topic, I just know to avoid some posters now. I didnt even answer that dumb one about five scars. I should have stayed out of the I want to sit on my ass all day tell me its OK post. Lol.

I'm still thinking the half is possible. I've been to the physio and you are going to PISS yourself laughing but I am now on a schedule of running backwards on my treadmill 3 x per week! I've also been told that my home designed circuit training (which I havent done for yonks) is excellent (and have I considered becoming a personal trainer) and that I should be getting back to doing that and running only 3 x per week. I just love getting out there with my ipod so much I'm a bit prone to doing it every day. Apparently the backwards running will help to build up synergistic muscles that are not targetted by running and balance them out better with the muscles that become overdeveloped by so much running. Its also an extremely aerobic workout which strengthens the lower back, improves posture (and hence VO2 max) and core strength and allows you to workout without pounding your knees into a pulp as its a toe first footstrike. Its fun, but HARD. I did half an hour tonight. Physio said do the running intervals of my circuit backwards! I was only going at 5.6kms/hr and an incline of 2 but the sweat was pouring off me and I had a heart rate of about 170! Doug tried it and fell off the treadmill. Geez, I really married an accountant. Good luck with your training. 10 is a great distance, I love it. I dont think I"ll be a six half marathons a year runner, I just want to do one! Anyway, had already done my circuit when I went to the physio so ended up doing about an hour and a half of exercise today. Bonus, since I ate about 50 tim tams. I also put a new pair of brooks Adrenalines on the secret visa card. Sigh. I'll pay it off when I go back to work in 18 months.

Hi Ange, try not to panic,first and foremost is that a lot of people are on forums becuase they have complications and are looking for support. There's gajillions of happy, successful bandsters out there that might not even know how to turn the computer on, let alone get into a forum. Also, you have to read a lot of what you find here a little,as a uniquely American experience as this forum is mainly American. Banding in Australia is quite a different beast, you probably wont have all the low carb, high Protein, count the calories, log your food advice here. Its approached much more as an eat sensibly from all food groups and get some regular exercise kind of thing and by and large that approach works just as well. I hope people take that the right way, I'm not putting down either side, just saying we approach it a bit differently here, so whilst the vastly different way of life can sound daunting, in reality it doesnt *have* to be like that unless you want to do it that way. And different as we are lots of us get on really really well. Also when everyone says they're now a size 6, our sizes are bigger, lol, that's actually a 10 to you and I! Where are you from, and where are you having your surgery? Good luck with it!

I've never heard of that before. If you know when the doctor is in and when you can filled, then I'd lie about it to be blunt. Sometimes, being due for your period makes you a bit tighter. So the worst that can happen is that the fill might end up loosening up more than you might like once your period finishes.

That's a bonus for you! I love mine too. He's awesome. He's actually a sports medicine specialist and is the Hawthorn Football Club Team doc but at the moment is over in Beijing as he's also one of the Aussie teams Olympic team docs. He's been very helpful to me on matters other than banding, concerning my back and even my endometriosis probs, and is well connected so has referred me onto good specialists. In stark contrast is the local bulk billing clinic where none of the doctors speak decent English and if you ask for a referrral to any specialist they dont know who they're referring you to, and they just send you onto someone in Dandenong, where I dont want to go becuase its a horrible area and if any hospital treatment is needed you end up in Dandenong hospital. I dont pay private health insurance to end up in that dump. The local clinics are good for medical certificates and antibiotics and that's about all. So I'm quite happy to drive from here to Windsor (half an hour) to see my fill doc even if its non band related.

Lost 60lb the first year, 30 the second year, down to well within my healthy weight. But continued to lose another 10 after that.

I agree with the others, fitted clothing will always be more flattering, but that doesnt mean tight or showing anything. When you're heavier, there ARE aspects of your shape you want to hide, rolls and lumps and bra overspill and the like are not really good looks. But clothes that fit you well will look better than enormous ones. As you get thinner, it takes quite a lot of courage to start showing yor body. The habits of a lifetime are hard to break. But you dont have to be stick think to look good in clothes that show your shape, you just have to be able to find the clothes!

Hang in there, a fill will probably help you and no doubt cut that appetite. This is hard work, no doubt about it, but its doable hard work. We all have days where we dont eat well, and probably always will but that's not important, getting back on the wagon is. And I've always been an advocate of moderate dieting, as in allowing yourself some of what you crave now and then.

Dont worry She, I'm taking notice,lol! This is not something I've ever had a problem with, my knees generally arent a problem. But nonetheless I'm off to my trusty acupuncturist tomorrow (god I love that guy!) just to make sure the inflammation goes away completely. I ran 5.8 yesterday and it held up just fine, but there's just a niggle in there, not any pain, just a "feeling". Which is why I'm going to the acupuncturist. I swear I thought he wasnt doing much for my back but over time its gotten SO much better, I no longer have any heaviness in the left leg. He can fix anything. I've already got the $500 orthotics. I couldnt/wouldnt dare run without my orthotics! I really have to think hard about doing a half. Whether I'm fit or not isnt the question, its whether as a runner I'm biomechanically sound enough and young enough to push those distances out of myself. If I'm going to do it, I think I need to get to the physio and get myself a program to strengthen the right muscles and prevent injury like you say. I really need someone who specialises in running, not just anyone down at the local clinic. for now, I have I think 10 weeks till the Melbourne marathon so I can easily afford to take a quiet week or two to let this completely settle. Its not even really an injury, just the threat of one, lol.

Good luck!

I dont have sleep apnoea but I can relate to that daytime tiredness, I had it all the time when I was heavy. It was very debilitating. I am a busy person, I'm a full time university student, with a job and three children. Life is full on. The only day I really dont make time to exercise is Saturday which involves the housework, swimming lessons, three basketball games and the grocery shopping (which we do at three different venues across our suburb) and usually entertaining either my parents or Dougs as family catch up time. I dont know how to be encouraging with this, just blunt. I made time. I had to. If you dont exercise you wont get the weight loss results you dream of and its as simple as that. But what I can promise you is that once you get fit and into the routine, if you choose something you enjoy doing, it becomes easier and easier and easier to find the enthusiasm and time to do it and that awful daytime lethargy will be a thing of the past. My daughter was just two when I started running. She went in a jogger stroller and came with me on my runs. She loved it. So it was time together AND exercise. One the weekends, one or other of my boys still likes to come with me on their bike. And now they're all older anyway, at 5pm (my usual running time) I can leave them for 40 minutes while I nip out anyway. And even make them vacuum for me while I'm gone! Exercise not a weight loss tool? What garbage, with all due respect to your nutritionist greythorpe. I'm glad you're sceptical about her words. If you dont exercise your weight loss will be slower and it will peter out well before you get to your healthy weight range (hence the 60 to 80% loss thing), you will lose a lot of muscle while you lose weight (and thus lower your metabolism) and you wont get the huge energy gains that mean you go and go and go all day without dropping. Last Sunday I ran 15kms, and burned over 1000 calories doing it. How is THAT not a weight loss tool? And maintenenace is a piece of cake when you are a regular exerciser. I also got to lose 120% of my excess weight without giving up bread, rice, Pasta (or even donuts!) and eating about 1500 calories a day. Appeals to me much more than a life of eggs and Protein shakes. Sorry if I'm blunt but I hope my enthusiasm for getting really fit comes across. Its hard at first, you have to make yourself do it but overall, fitting exercise in and keeping at it is a LOT easier than controlling your eating for the rest of your life. Much easier.

No, I knew right away. I'd been about 78kg as an adult for quite long periods of time, which is at the high end of my healthy weight range. I knew I wanted to be thinner than that. I knew about 70 would be pretty good. Also, I'm a bit of a perfectionist. There was no way I'd settle for a weight, which though healthier than what I was, was still "overweight". Nor would I settle for the higher end of my weight range. Same as how for exercise, I dont walk, I run. Because running's harder, more challenging so it would give me more satisfaction to master it. You're not crazy, I suspect I am. I dont make things easy on myself. There's a lot to be said for REALISTIC goals.

Thank you!

I havent been unable to handle liquids but I had a teeny .1 fill back in March that in hindsight I just didnt really need - I needed to pull up my socks eating wise more than I needed a fill. Anyway, it was pretty tight but not problematic, didnt lose any weight at all though. Over time I think I began to eat crap that went down easily and the quality of my diet really suffered. Fast forward to July, a plane flight, period due and I could BARELY eat anything the whole weekend I was on the goldcoast. All the friends I was with were making comments about me being anorexic. I made an appointment when I came home. My doc took .2ml out, now I'm WIDE open, lol, but I think I'll stick with it and use a little self control. I should not need to be tight to maintain. Point of story, tight fills are miserable and they dont lend themselves to you eating well and it often doesnt even result in weight loss anyway. When you add in symptoms like reflux (I was a little phlegmy everytime I ate - I thought my cough was hanging round a bit long), hearburn, night couging or PBing and you are actually risking your band. An unfill is never a terrible idea even if you're not quite sure. It cant do any damage and you can always have a fill again down the track. I learned that I must leave room for my body's fluctuations due to hormones etc. And you know what? Even though I'm looser than I've been in probably 2 years, I'm enjoying everything I"m eating, I'm eating way healthier and I've not gained an ounce.

Interesting - I have read similar things, there's a program (Jeff Galloway I think) called tens and ones, where he suggests you run ten minutes, walk one. The switch between the way you use muscles helps to prevent injury but to walk for just one minute doesnt affect your aerobic conditioning and it doesnt even significantly affect times because you tend to finish your run much stronger due to the rest periods. If you're a novice, then you can do fives and ones. I did try this, it drove me a bit nuts having to look at a watch the whole time, but just this morning I thought I may try to approach it from that angle instead. I'd be interested in the half marathon program if you've got time to post it, I'd be most appreciative. I just went for my 5.8km route this morning with no problems. It was just an overuse thing, irritated my TFL tendon, it was a tiny bit twangy by the end of 5.8 but I've iced it, cooled down and have no problem with the knee. Its just when you get injuries you think oh NO, months of recovery!

Lol, I eat wholegrain cereal for breakfast and I've lost 120% of my excess weight.... Just reading the side of the box now, yes, with 1/2 a cup of skim milk there's 10.9 grams of protein per serve, but also 8.9 grams of dietary fibre.