nina874

I appreciate what you are saying Jack but I respectfully disagree. Look at these pictures and tell me that the people involved are any less savage than the people that they claim to hate for the very same reason. Abu Ghraib POW torture Pictures And for the record the allied troops are shooting children, blowing up hospitals etc etc, to say otherwise is just ridiculous.The United Nations have a running total of all civillians killed by allied fire and a large precentage of them are children. Just because they arent 'Christian terrorists' and are in fact acting on the orders of their governments doesnt alter what they are doing. Do you think that we have the moral high ground because we dont do these things on our home turf? That seems rather like a convicted pedo arguing that he only ever did it in countries where it is legal never at home, just because you dont crap on your own doorstep doesnt stop it stinking. If you are not entitled to murder people who have different beliefs then what do you think we are doing over there, shaking their hands? If we are prepared to stand up for the underdogs and stop all of these government authorised murders why havent we stepped in to stop Robert Mugabe? Why are we sitting back and letting Africa rip itself apart? Where were we when the Hutus and the Tutsis were commiting mass genocide? What did we do about Rawanda? I worry about what world we are leaving as a legacy for our children, when the end will always justify the means, and the very things that we claim to stand against turn us into something no better than them.

Hi Ghost, How are you feeling now? Have you got your head around the new you yet? It must be so liberating! I read earlier in the thread that you were having problems with swelling, is that all sorted out now? Are you planning to lose more weight or are you happy where you are? I must admit one of my main hopes with the band as much as the weight loss is that it will stop me putting it all back on again! Do you have any new piccies? I know that sometimes it can take a few months before you get to see the end result. Keep us updated Nina x

Hi Karey, That is basically what happened, I stumbled across a link to his website through a another website about weightloss. I then rang the NHS coordinator for weightloss in our county (who also organises lapband ops in France) and asked her what she thought of his work, she described him as 'the dogs danglies' I then rang his clinic and spoke to his secratary Geraldine who speaks excellent english and arranged to go over there for an initial consultation. In the meantime 2 of my friends had been listening to me rave on about it and decided that they wanted to go too! 2 of us flew to Lyon and spent 3 days there, we both came away very happy with the choice that we had made, we had 2 A4 sized sheets of questions and he answered every single one of them. Unfortunatly one of them has been really ill and in hospital over Christmas with gall stones, so she won't be able to go ahead with the surgery I would go ahead on my own, as that was my initial intention, but it will be more fun with my remaining friend :eek: One of my favorite things that he said to me was ( when I was describing what I wanted the end result to be) to acheive the results he needed me to have 3 things, courage, time and money! Cant get more honest than that can you! He absolutely refused to do all that I wanted in one op, and when he explained why I agreed with him, I am just looking forwards to the first stage now. Its weird it has become an emotional thing for me now, almost a rite of passage that i am going through to get the old me back, I had my first baby at 20 and have spent the last 19 years always putting everyone elses needs first, I am now (even if I say so myself) a very successful business woman, and I would like the chance to claim back some of the youth that I gladly sacrificed for the kids - does that make sense or does it sound like a selfish thing? Its not that I want to go gallavanting around ( though it would be nice!LOL) I just want to look in the mirror and like what I see, I want to feel sexy again, my mind has stayed young but unfortunatety the childbirth/kids leftovers ravaged bod hasnt! I made the decision a while back that by the time I was 40 I wanted to get it all sorted out,but life kept on getting in the way - you know how it is- for the first time in a long time I feel like I am back in control of me IYKWIM! How about all of you? What are your emotional motivations? Nina x

Yup you really are having a crappy week! Have you expressed your delight to your father yet?! I know that it isnt very pretty , but I think that they are as a rule easy to get rid of. Keep your chin up hon it can only get better!

Ah I didnt realise that IUD's werent free in the USA, all forms of contraception are free in the UK. Do you have to pay for abortions too? All of my kids are happy 'accidents', for myself I am totally pro-life it would never occur to me to be otherwise, as you can tell by the fact that I have 6 of the munchkins. I am also passionate about women having the freedom to choose, but I must admit that women who refuse to take responsibility for contraception drive me insane. I have friends who have had 3 or 4 abortions, and if I were their surgeon I would be telling them that if they walked through my door again to sling it. Whatever the situation you will always get people who abuse the rights that were fought so hard for by others, all I was saying is that there is no harm in placing reasonable boundaries on those rights, in so far as helping to ensure that they dont get into the same situation again.

Cavegirl, what worries me most is that I am fairly sure that sentiments just like this floating around Germany in 1933, only about Jews instead of Muslims. I too hope that the younger generations see through all of this hate filled crap, but it has to cut both ways. I get just as frustrated as you when people fail to integrate, but I would never try to make someone abandon their religious beliefs, that is the very thing about democracy that should make us proud, if we start dictating religious choices as government policies, then we become no different to the thing that we hate. The kind of people that you are talking about represent a tiny tiny percentage of the Muslims living in the West, and actually the vast majority of clerics are very vocal in preaching moderation. It just doesnt get widely reported, now I wonder why that would be? I am all for when in Rome, and I truely believe that if people come to the West and then start screaming about infidels and preaching hate, then they should be deported back to from whence they came. If it is so darn good to live by those laws why dont they stay there, but if we attack their home nations we just make the moderate people feel outraged, thus endangering them integrating. The British and Americans have been interfering in the middle east for decades now, supplying guns and money to whioever they thought would be the best fit for the west, part of what we are having to deal with now is as a direct result of us interfering. I dont know what the solution is but I know that if a group of Christian terrorists had carried out the atrocities that the Islamic terrorists have, I wouldnt want my homeland to be occupied and bombed, and if it was it would turn me from a live and let live kind of gal into something very different.

Do any of you have any idea at all what the real islamic religion is all about? I personally can see no difference between what the radical christians are doing behind the veneer of government authority to what the Islamic terrorists are doing. How would America have felt if the Bristish had 'declared war' on Southern Ireland on the grounds that they were harbouring the IRA? You know, gone in, bombed Dublin, blown up a few schools and hospitals? No actually I think that what happened is that America helped table a negotiation which resulted in Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness ( both of whom were known to be involved in the deaths of many) being given lovely offices in the Houses of Parliment, which - oh the irony- is fully funded by British taxpayers. Would you be sitting in approval if we were washboarding Catholic men and women? Dont be fooled into thinking that America is the first nation to have had to deal with terrorism, you arent, and prior to 911 you had never had to suffer the terror of a mainland bombing campaign. There is an intrinsic difference between protecting your position and becoming the aggressor, to me what you are applauding at the moment is parallel with saying that we should have set up gas chambers and herded all of the Nazis into it. Remind me again how many American citizens have died on American soil since 911 at the hands of Islamics? I am just as horrified as the next person by the Fundamentalist Islamic Laws, but the reason for my horror is because that kind of treatment of another human being is incomprehensible to me.When you start using those tactics yourself you become no better than the thing you are supposed to despise.

Trixie - A 'ken doll' is what can happen if they dont pay attention to the 'mons' or the muff as my surgeon called it - you have to imagine him saying it with a french accent then picture me ROLF - the whole area can swell leaving you looking like a Ken Doll. Dog Ears are when there is a bit of skin in a traingle shape at the sides . If you look on here www.makemeheal.com and search under those terms you will find pictures. Sweetheart - I know that it isnt cheap, but he is one of the best, and he doesnt do a standard TT. Dont forget I am having a huge amount of lipo as well, I will be in theatre for nearly 7 hours, I am sure if you didnt need that much work it wouldnt be as much. Nina x Nina xx

The eyes, it has always been the eyes for me, windows to the soul and all that. After that it is the face, I love watching expressions and thoughts travel across DH's face. I have never found skinny men attractive, and I definately lean towards chunk, I want my men to look like men. DH actually told me to put some weight on when we met - god bless him little did he know! I actually find James Gandalfi (?) from the Sopranos very horny, but I think that is more to do with the character he plays...never could resist a bad boy :eek: Not stupid bad, just rebellious, rule breaking,twinkle in the eye kind of bad...

Look on the bright side, I think I am the only person in my family who doesnt get time to have sex.......

Flippin heck Laurend!! Thats a nightmare! I cant believe that they dont have to give you any notice. You still studying yourself arent you? Hardly what you need right now when you are trying to complete your own education, do you have to get a job in lecturing or could you fit in anything else to pay the rent? I know you are scarily bright, there must be someone out there who would rip your arm off if they knew you were available. Hope you get it sorted soon, you dont need that hanging over you. ((((hug))) Nina x

I am sure that your friend may regret her abortion, but there are countless thousands of women that do not, no-one forced your friend to make that choice she made it on her own, we all do thing that we later regret. If she hadnt had the abortion she could well be ringing you crying because having the child tied her for life to a wife beating maniac, the important thing is that as an adult she made a choice, she just didnt like the consequences. On the birth control issue, unfortunately as you are well aware women having control over their reproductive organs in actuality means that loads of women abdicate responsibilty and then cant deal with the consequences. It is no more an infringment of your rights than having to give up smoking to get an operation done. If as I said you are so against carrying a child to term why would you NOT want the most effective form of contraception fitted? You would actually choose to risk being in that situation again? Well if that is the case then you would veiw abortion as the ultimate form of birth control, accepting the risk and knowing that if you did screw up again someone else would sort it out. Drs put all kinds of conditions in front of people who want operations done, because they are all too aware of just how dumb we can be. Look at the struggle some people have to get their doctors approve them for a lap band. We all need one because we eat too much, but that doesnt stop the docs from ordering pre-op diets, you may as well say that it is our right to eat as much as we want, it is but they will put conditions on what you have to agree to do if you want them to help you.

I actually dont know anyone who got pregnant after a contraceptive failure, I know plenty who did because they forgot to take the pill, or didnt bother to use a condom because 'what were the odds of it going wrong'. The percentage of people needing an abortion in the circumstances where the pill had failed them must be tiny, most people are getting one because they didnt use contraception properly - if at all. Why should abortion be allowed to be used as a form of contraception, and if it isnt being used for that, then if the pill/condom did fail you why would you object to the most reliable form of contraception being fitted? It wouldn't be the Dr that prescribed your pill that was telling you to have it fitted it would be the surgeon who was having to terminate the pregnancy that would be fitting the coil.It is already offered in a lot of UK clinics to stop repeat abortions.The big difference with the coil is that you have to make a conscious decision to have it removed. Do you know that one of the biggest problems that the pro-choicers are facing at the moment? The fact that fewer and fewer Dr's want to train in abortion techniques, as it is seen as dirty and frankly not very glamorous, added to which a lot of the trainee doctors have their own beliefs to juggle.Just as I believe that women should have the right to choice, I also believe that so should doctors. It does not help womens cases when if offered a form of contraception they refuse only to turn up at the same clinic 6 months later in the same position. Why is that any different to Drs insisting that people give up smoking before an op and wont do the surgery unless you pass a blood test? If you refuse to take responsibility for part of your health in any way then ultimately you will suffer.

Thanks Wombat :mad: I have seen some pretty awful pictures on the net which is what prompted my frantic search to find a good surgeon. The first thing that I did was ask him about 'ken dolls' , 'dog ears', and my pet fear - necrosis! He showed me loads of pictures that he used for his lectures on how NOT to do it and really set my mind ease. Karey - He speaks excellent English albeit with an Inspector Cluseau accent, he is slightly nutty, but then, hey I see that as an admirable quality. If you go onto the site an look at techniques then look for silhouettes you will be able to look at the before and after piccies heres a link Docteur PASCAL - LYON - FRANCE I dont know how to translate the pages I just like looking at the piccies :confused: He is an industry leader in lower body lifts and has an arse lifting technique named after him! LOL I just cant wait now. I am going to get back into weight training soon at the moment I am having to make do with the power plate and weights I have at home, hopefully that will give him less to work with! The cost for the high lateral tension TT and mega lipo is 12000 euros, that includes all the meds and a week in hospital. Nina x

I LOVE CLOTHES!!! All I do with mine is sort them so everything is easy to find, all black pants hanging together sorted into smart and casual, all skirts the same way and colour sorted, you get the picture. I have all my evening wear and ballgowns in one wardrobe on their own - they deserve their own room they are so gorgeous I find it is easier and that way I really do wear them all (mmm apart from the ball gowns but they fall into the same catagory is Jimmy Choos - things of beauty in their own right!) and if I find that I havent picked something out for a couple of months then I pass it on to my friends who through devious means encourage my addiction knowing that they will benefit eventually Nina x

I think that this is a double edged sword. I can see the practicle applications for this, but as in every other thing you have to wonder where it would end. There has been a lot of debate in the UK over the use of DNA databases, it was origionally started for people taken into custody which falls in with the 'if you arent going to be guilty of anything....' theory but recently there have been reports of kids as young as 6 having their DNA taken against the parents wishes. It reminds me of what happened when the Life Insurance companies found out about the genetic testing for some diseases and started demanding to see the results, someone will always come up with a way of abusing these sorts of things. Nina x

Hi gadget, long time no speak! I understand what you are trying to say, but I think that you are harking back to a day and attitudes that are long gone. In the days when abortion was illegal women had few rights anyway and they were used to being dictated to. The brave few that sought an illegal abortion were mavericks in every sense of the word, they were flouting so many preconceptions that were held at the time that they had to be bl++dy desperate to take that course of action. Remember that the american government used to lobotomise people who didnt display attitudes that they felt were appropriate, including young women who got pregnant out of marriage. Imagine if they tried to do that today.... Flash forwards to today, women are no longer merely an extension of their husbands, and rightly or wrongly they are used to having control of their bodies and the freedom to determine what is the best course of action for them. You cannot want a return to the bad old days of backstreet abortions, and believe me that is what will happen when the right to make that choice is so firmly entrenched now, you can quote as many statistics as you want about the risk of a termination at a clinic, but you know as well as I do that if they were performed on someones kitchen table those risks would increase 1000 fold. If men could carry children I would have a lot more time for them when they wade into the abortion argument, but as many of them cant be bothered to make their child support payments for the children that were carried to term I find myself disinclined to listen. What the government should be doing is trying to prevent these pregnancys from happening in the first place, a pill that didnt cause thrombosis and mood swing etc would be a good starting point! On a final note I think that if a termination is perfomed then an IUD should be fitted at the same time to prevent further accidents, there shouldn't be a choice.The way that I look at it is that if you are that against having a child, then the most effective form of contraception being fitted should bring a sense of relief. Nina x

If you go onto this website there are loads of pictures and a forum where you can chat and ask questions. www.makemeheal.com Hope this helps! Nina x

I dont think it will be a problem, babysgotback (?) one of the members on here did exactly that and she is looking amazing now! Nina x

Hi Amy, You have done so well with your weightloss!!!! I cant wait to see your piccies, it will be here before you know it! I am with you on the never having had a flat tummy thing, it is so hard to visualise, I find myself standing in front of the mirror and puling it out of the way to try to see what it will look like! Good luck hon, and keep us informed of what is happening! Nina x

Hi LJM, I am so pleased for you that you have found a surgeon that you are happy with! We will be in round the same time and I think that we are both having similar ops, I am looking forwards to sharing notes Do you feel a sense of relief now? People keep asking me if I am scared and all I can feel at the moment is excited!! I am getting back into the zone now and have started exercising again, you have done so well not losing focus over Christmas, I still have issues with the whole head/tummy hunger thing! Not long now for either of us! Nina x

Hi Angel, I hope that you are feeling better today and that you can have the drains out soon I totally agree with what you say about the motivations for having surgery, if you are going to get through the pain you have to be sure why you are doing it! I am looking forward to seeing your pictures, there is nothing like a side by side to help you see what a huge difference it will have made to you. Are you sleeping ok? A friend of mine is tossing up whether to have a FTT or a LBL at the moment and she is worrried about the recovery with a 360 scar, kind of wondering how you sleep without squishing stitches! Please keep us up to date with how you are getting on. Nina x

Julie, First of all I want to thank you sooooo much for sharing this whole journey with all of us, to say that you are an inspiration is an understatement!! Second I want to say OM gawd you look amazing, and I mean amazing!!! Are you used to how flamin' sexy you look? If I can bring about 1/4 of the changes that you have I will be happy I was getting abit nervous about the surgerys that I have planned but your thread , and the others on here have set my mind at ease, you are so matter of fact about it all. I cant wait to see the montage! Nina x

Green - I salute you!! Well said hon :scales: I actually quite like all the people mentioned on all sides of the sh*t slinging, so I am going to duck out of this one, can see all points of view,so I will respectfully decline the chance to get drawn in Happy New Year everyone and may the weightloss continue!! Nina x

Audri - You go girl!! I am so glad that you stuck to your guns and are going for it! You will be fine honest, the surgery is nothing to be frightened of and the recovery is waaay quicker than I thought it would be. Good luck for Thursday and I hope to see you back here boasting about how much you have lost in no time hon!You are doing this for you, and as a wife/mother I know how bloody rare it is that we do anything that is just for us!! Baby - Way to go on joining the gym, I have been sooo lazy the last week or so, but i have been flying up and down the country. You will get that last bit of weight off in no time, but I bet you see the inches some off first. Denise - I am hoping to start my gym program in the New Year, in the run up to Christmas my house is insane, just sorting out the pressies for all the kids, decorating the house and all that has me meeting myself coming back! I hope that I will get to the stage that you are at Falls - my weightloss stopped recently about 2 weeks after having the band put in I lost not one more ounce, it didnt matter what I did, power plate cross trainer weights etc. I stuck there for 3 weeks! I started eating a bit more on the advise of my sister, did it for about 10 days ( put on 4 lbs) then went for my fill and the weight is coming off really well now. I think sometimes you have to get your body used to a bit more to kick start it again. I have lost the 4 that I put on plus another 7!! I ended up having 2 fills in one week!! I went for the first fill under floro on the Tuesday and could tell when I was watching that the barium was going down waaay to quick, he wook me from 4cc to 7.5, but at 4cc I had no restriction at all. Told him at the time that I thought it was still going through too quick, and he said that it normally takes 3 fills to get restriction and wasnt prepared to put anymore in. I was pissed cos I have to fly down to get the fill, and he gets paid per fill, so why would he worry?? I rang my patient coordinator and told her that 2 days after the fill I was stuck in Manchester still, and had got caught up at work starving, and the only thing that we could get to eat was a Subway which slid down noooo problem. Not very happy! She was a star and managed to get me another fluro fill that day and I got another 1.5cc , so I am now at 9cc in a 10cc band and I am loving it!!! The weight is coming off really well - no surprise really as I spent most of the week on liquids!! - but the great thing is that I have RESTRICTION!! Wooooo Hooooo!!! I am so happy, I feel full after a tiny amount, I have to eat slowly and chew really well (had my first stuck, slime and PB all in one meal!!)but other than that learning curve,it is fan-flippin-tastic! I have got to get to goal by Feb or a stone within it so I can't afford to mess around now. Hope that everyone else is doing fine and that we dont all fall off the wagon over Christmas! Nina x