Fanny Adams

He was also a philosopher, not a biologist, so his statements about the evidence of design in biology have no more weight than yours or mine do. He specifically retracted any suggestions that his definition of "deist" fit with traditional religious definitions of the word.

All the arguments I've heard from the Intelligent Design proponents centre around the "impossibility" of the complexity of life arising by chance. However, the calculations used to demonstrate that impossibility are seriously flawed. This site succinctly summarises the logical flaws in the "impossibly complex" argument: Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and Probability of Abiogenesis Calculations The site gives a very good layman's overview of how abiogenesis is not just "not improbable" but is actually "extremely probable".

I hate to burst your bubble, but Anthony Flew has not become a Christian. His statements about becoming a deist have been twisted by a number of Christian writers to mean something far more than he has ever said:

That monstrosity looks like a heart attack waiting to happen!! I like deep fried onion rings but not like that!! (The best ones are served by the fish and chip shops - real onions, cut into thick 1/2" rings, battered and deep fried with the fish, not those tasteless imitation McD's ones that are all batter and no onion!)

OMG!!! :tongue2:

Thanks for clearing that up, and I have definitely never seen a Bloomin Onion served anywhere here. Chips and gravy do rock though, fattening as they are :thumbup:. And if you ever make it out this way, sure you'll be able to make it a culinary tour - just stick to our wonderful range of fresh seafoods and tropical fruits and vegetables and she'll be apples :tongue2:. You absolutely HAVE to try the lamb at some point too. I've heard lamb isn't very common in the US but it is one of our staples.

Hehe - I didn't think I had the name quite right but couldn't remember what it was really called. From the descriptions I've heard, it is something like a roasted onion, split open and filled with gravy - is that right? Roasted onions are pretty common but not served in quite the same way. Usually, you just cut the top and tail off the onion and take off the loose skin without peeling it, then pop it in the roasting pan with the meat and potatoes. They are yummy! Once cooked, you do split them open and smother in gravy, so I suppose that is much the same thing, but I've never heard them called "bloomin onions" :smile2:.

Here ya go, Rochgirl: Ticker Tutorial with pictures. If you are still having trouble after that, PM me and I'll try to help.

I have to wonder where this Outback Steakhouse gets its recipe ideas from. We don't have that chain here in Aus and I've never heard of half the dishes it serves up. What the heck are cheese fries? Are they deep fried cheese sticks or chipped potatoes covered in cheese or what? And I've never seen an "onion blossom" here either.

Ahhh but you see, you're not one of those that says "I drank my three Protein shakes today (and ate nothing) but I'm still hungry! I think I need another fill!" :smile2: Nor have I seen you recommending people try for 100g or more of protein a day. To be honest though, I really disagree with the high protein/low carb diet. I think the balanced approach is far healthier.

I believe the recommended intake of protein for a woman is around 60-70g a day, and there is no reason why we can't get that intake from solid food once the healing phase is over. We are FAR better off eating this protein rather than drinking it - I see no need for protein shakes after the liquid/mushie phase.

Tommy-O? Go back and read my original post again. I said nothing about questions from newbies. Of course someone new to this procedure is going to ask a lot of questions and mostly they're the questions we've all heard at least a dozen times over. That is perfectly normal, doesn't bother me and wasn't what I was ranting about. I was ranting about people who have been here for several months and should know better about some things by now. To summarise: * People who label themselves as failures when they have lost weight at faster than or equal to the average rate. Negative thinking annoys me, especially when it is unjustified. * People who are wanting their fourth, fifth or more fill (i.e. have been banded for at least several months), and say they are hungry yet in the same post demonstrate that they DO have restriction but are eating around the band. Those are the ones that are going to end up with slippage or erosion from keeping the band too tight and will say the band is a failure, when it is their own bad eating patterns. * People who get caught up in the Protein, protein, protein craze, as though they have had a bypass operation and suddenly need massive protein supplements. Actually - it is the doctors who push this that annoy me, can't blame people for following their doctor's advice.

One of the things this did for me was to make me sit down and think about where and how my ideas of portion size got so skewed. I think that, like most people, I took my cues about what was a "normal" portion from the people around me, mainly my extended family. Well guess what? Most of my family are overweight! What's more, the times that I have made the comparisons (over the last 20 years) have always been at special family functions, when we have all been in "party mode", which translates as eating and drinking as much as possible! So my concept of "normal" had over the years become that of the portions taken by a group of fat people in full feeding frenzy. Now it wasn't always like that. I wasn't always fat, nor have most of my family always been fat. It's something that has crept up on all of us over the last 20 years. Over the years, as our extended family has grown and prospered, we have become used to "living high off the hog's back", and what used to be reserved for special events has become our normal eating patterns. When I recall the habits of the few among us who have remained slim, I realise that I have always looked at their plates and thought "oh they must be dieting" or "gee, so-and-so eats like a bird!" This forum has actually reinforced that concept in some ways. We all speak about our new portion sizes as being "tiny" and many of us have even worried about what others will think when we eat out. We need to change that mindset and realise that 1 cup of food is NOT excessively small. It is the norm for normal-sized people.

I'm going to ask my doctor this question on my next visit, but some of you may have already asked yours or may have an opinion, so I'm interested in the responses: When you get stuck, do you think it is better to suffer the pain until it goes through or to PB it up to get unstuck quickly? I rarely get stuck and each time it has happened, I know it has been my own fault for not not paying attention and failing to chew enough. On the rare occasions when it does happen, it HURTS and I have to admit that I have gone straight to the loo and put 2 fingers down my throat to force a little retch to bring it up again. For me, it only takes a quick heave, which feels almost like a really strong belch and is nothing like really vomiting, then the pain is gone and I feel fine again. I have heard of other people getting stuck and enduring that pain for hours on end, waiting for the food to go through, and it seems to me that letting the food remain stuck for so long with all that pain would cause far greater swelling and irritation to your stomach and the band, than a quick little "erk" moment. I would feel different about it if I was vomiting and retching multiple times, I'm sure, but it's not like that. I know that my doc is dead set against extended vomiting and has given me nausea tablets to take if I ever get that way, but I'm not sure how he feels about this - I will ask him. Your thoughts? PS: Also, please note that I DIDN'T do this in the healing period after the operation. This is something that has only happened a couple of times since my last fill.

Willsmommy, I think it is unfortunate that your doctor is giving you so little guidance in this. One thing I can offer you is the advice from my doctor, which is that everyone heals at different rates and the most important thing you can do is to LISTEN to your body. Your body is telling you that it is not ready for those foods yet, and it would seem that this is right on par with the advice given to most bandsters. The vast majority of people are advised to stay on clears for anything from several days to a week, then move to full liquids for another week or two, and not to attempt anything as solid as mashed potatoes until they get to the mushy stage, which can be anything from 2 to 4-5 weeks post-op. I think you would get value from spending some time in the food and Nutrition section, looking at the recipes for the various stages and being careful not to try to move ahead too quickly. When you feel ready, introduce items from the next stage slowly and in small quantities (1/4 to 1/2 cup at a time), until you are sure your body is ready to handle them. Soon enough, you will be healed and you will feel your appetite come back. For some of us, it comes back with a vengeance and we are hungry well before we are "allowed" to move on to the next stage, so look upon your current lack of appetite as an advantage. It may also be a signal that you will be sensitive to fills and won't need as much to get to your sweet spot. Based on your current reactions, I would recommend being cautious with those, rather than aggressive, and don't forget to go back onto liquids for 48-72 hours after each one, then slowly reintroduce foods again to determine what you can tolerate at your new fill level.

Without getting into the little snippyfest you are having fun with :wink2:, I think you have a good point. Many of us ARE overly sensitive to comments about our weight and take genuine compliments in the wrong way, because we read our own self-esteem issues into other people's words. For example, many many people find the "you have such a pretty face" compliment to be a subtle insult because they automatically fill in the blank afterwards with "...for such fattie!" This is partly their own insecurities and partly the truth that they don't want to face! Just look at the thousands of comments in the before and after pics thread. Losing weight DOES make most of us look more attractive - that's half the reason we want to do it! Comments like "you are really attractive and if you'd lose the weight, you'd be stunning!" might be hard to hear, but let's face it - it is true, isn't it? I think most of the time when people give compliments like that, they are trying to focus on the positives without commenting on the obvious negatives. That doesn't always work, because we are so aware of and sensitive to the negatives that we add them even when they haven't been said. Sure, some people are really tactless with how they say it, but for many of us, it doesn't take a great deal to reduce a genuine compliment to an insult in our own minds.

The emphasis in Australia is very much on the balanced diet of lean meats, whole grains, vegetables, fruit and dairy. Recommended daily allowances for a woman who is not overweight are approximately 60-70g Protein, 100-150g carbs. Even our Optifast formula is different to the one marketed in the US and contains less protein and more carbs. When I was on the pre-op and following the strict Optifast diet (3 shakes a day, 2 cups steamed green vegetables), my carb intake was around double the minimum 30g needed for ketosis. From WebMD:

I like how the surgeon was careful not to cut into your tatt!

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I found this whole thing amusing. I'm Australian but I spend a lot of time communicating online with friends from the US and I take great delight in sprinkling my conversation with the most outlandish Ockerisms I can think of! It makes my day when I come out with something they can't puzzle out - and often that happens when I least expect it! My parents are English, so I also get to draw on a lot of the Cockney rhyming slang, of which my father is a master. So... g'day mates! Owzit goin? Jeez, I've been flat out like a lizard drinking, I give you the egg flip! No worries if ya can't understand me, she'll be apples in the end!

I think any doctor will tell you to give up smoking if at all possible and many these days won't do elective surgery if you smoke. I didn't think I could cope with giving up food and cigarettes at the same time, and my doctor allowed me the choice albeit with strong recommendations to give up. He did say that it really makes a difference to how you react to the surgery and to your recovery rates. I ended up doing the nicotine Patches for the 2 weeks of my pre-op diet and for about 2 weeks afterwards. One totally unexpected bonus of that was that the nicotine patches really helped to curb my hunger in the pre-op diet (worked better than any appetite suppressant I've ever tried, and I've tried a few!!) I have gone back to smoking after the initial couple of weeks of post-op healing but have discovered that my smoking has virtually halved, without any conscious effort. I had always had trouble distinguishing between true hunger and hanging out for a cigarette in the past, so that whenever I tried to give up, I would compensate by eating more and whenever I tried to diet, I would smoke more. It seems like now, because I don't feel hungry all the time, I don't have the urge to light up as often either. Who woulda thunk it? I'm still smoking about 8 cigs a day, compared to a previous average of 15, but I think that this will gradually decrease to the point that I can give them away altogether, when my headspace gets right for that.

I think the most common quick loss pre-op diet is the Opti-fast way. For me, that consisted of 3 Optifast shakes @ 150 cal each and 2 cups of non-starchy vegetables (fresh or steamed only) @ 25-50 cal per cup, for a total of around 500-550 cal a day. It was harsh but well worth it, as I dropped 10lb in 10 days. Good veges for this stage are: leafy Boston, romaine and other lettuces; arugula, endive, escarole, parsley, spinach and watercress; and bean sprouts, celery, cucumbers, mushrooms, peppers and radishes asparagus, bamboo shoots, broccoli, broccoli rabe, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, collards, eggplant, jicama, kale, kohlrabi, leeks, mustard greens, okra, onions, pumpkin, scallions, shallots, snow-pea pods, spaghetti squash, string or wax Beans, Swiss chard, tomatoes, turnips, Water chestnuts and zucchini Veges to avoid are: potatoes, sweet potato/yam, carrots, corn, peas Most of us struggled with hunger on this diet and there's no way I personally could maintain it for very long, but when you are on a countdown towards the big prize, it can be done for a few weeks, especially with the support available on this site.

Hi Rochgirl and welcome!! How has your journey been so far?

I had the band BECAUSE I was overwhelmed by the idea of having to diet my way down 140lb. I honestly knew I couldn't stick to that for the length of time needed, without help. Now that I have the band and I am not fighting all day every day, I feel much more confident that I can go the distance and get to goal.

I surely hope you can because I had 140lb to lose when I started, and I plan to lose it all! I'm figuring on about 18mths to get to goal.

It looks like you're almost there, Christy. You've just missed the < character at the beginning of the code (easy to miss when selecting for cut and paste). Go back to your profile and Edit Signature, and type the < at the very beginning, in front of the ref= bit. Don't forget to save the change.