Fanny Adams

Thanks for that, Luscious!! Fitday had a problem today and I was looking for another website and an Aussie one is great! I tried TheDailyPlate, but it is US-based so didn't recognise brands here and was hard to navigate. I really like the Calorie King one!

Breakfast: 2 poached eggs, mushed up with 1 slice low fat cheese (180 cal) Mid morning snack: banana smoothie (half banana, 1 cup skim milk, 1/2 tbsp honey - 170 cal) Lunch: Ham & tomato sandwich (2 slices multigrain bread, 25g extra lean ham, 1/2 tomato, spread with low fat French Onion Dip instead of butter - YUM! 300 cal) Afternoon snack: 4 whole wheat crispbreads with LF French Onion Dip and 1/2 tomato (230 cal) and half a banana (50 cal) Dinner: 3/4 cup FF lemon chicken with vegs (110 cal) and 1/2 cup jasmine rice (100 cal) 3 cups coffee with sweetener and no fat milk (45 cal) Total: 1180 cal, 21g fat, 180g carb, 71g protein Wow - I ate SO much today but it was still under my 1200 limit! I guess I made good choices :thumbup: I'm thinking I need a slight fill though, coz was really hungry today but I am so full now (just finished dinner).

Hey Rastis!! Long time, no see! Hope you've come through the complications, whatever they were, and are feeling back on track now. Well done on what you've achieved so far - more to come I'm sure!

The Optifast is meant as a pre-op diet for a couple of weeks, to quickly reduce the size of a fatty liver. This makes the surgery easier for the doctor and can make it easier on your body and lead to an easier recovery time. Many doctors recommend it and apparently the higher your BMI, the more likely they will ask you to do it. My doctor, Dr Stephen Watson at St John of Gods Murdoch, didn't insist upon it but he did highly recommend it and showed me two videos of the surgery, one with a patient who had done it, one who hadn't. The difference was quite remarkable. Ask your doctor about it when you go in for your consultation - he just may not have mentioned it yet or he may feel it is not necessary for you. I'd be inclined to do it anyway, as long as your doctor was in agreement, as I think it kick starts your weight loss and it is easier to stay motivated when you have the goal of surgery in mind. It's not easy to do (Optisludge is horrible!) but well worth the effort and when you can tell yourself that you only have to stick to it for a few weeks, it becomes bearable.

Hi Debi, welcome to bandland :thumbup: There's quite a few of us Perthites around - feel free to ask any questions. Good luck on your journey!

My sincere apologies, TommyO. I was in a rotten bitchy mood last night should not have spoken to you that way. It was totally uncalled for and I'm very sorry.

Hmmm... I'm not sure if the overall post was directed at me, but I'm guessing so. The only part I can be bothered responding to is this bit: "When we set out to change how people participate we are embarking on an excercise of extreme futility and we know it. With that in mind, our motives must only be to throw a little mud at an intended target. " Well DUH!! Have you read the title of this particular forum lately?

There quite likely is something there but it is very mild and doesn't affect my functioning in any discernable way. Looking back through the years, I have realised that I do show many symptoms but I had always put it down to something else. It's only been recently that I have put all the differing symptoms together and seen that it probably does add up to "somthing" but I haven't heard that there's any particular treatment other than perhaps drug therapy, which has side effects that are far worse than the symptoms. I'll PM ya about it if you're interested...

Bit of a story with this, but bear with me... I work on a mining camp and eat in a community dining hall every night when I'm on site. The availability of all that yummy food and the subsequent weight I gained on top of my already hefty size was what drove me to get the band. I've always known that I ate huge portion sizes but up on site, it never seemed all that excessive, especially when compared with all the piled high plates of the burly miners all around me. Anyway, I've been going to the camp gym most nights and have gotten on a nodding acquaintance with some of the few women on site (I'm not very good at making friends, especially women friends). So, one of the ladies had obviously noticed me making an effort in the gym and asked me today to come to a pilates session they were having after work. I felt a little awkward but agreed to go, and ended up joining her and two other ladies afterwards for dinner. All three of these ladies are very slim and obviously fit. I served myself up what I have been thinking of as a "bandster sized" meal - largish for the band as I am overdue for a fill and was hungry, but still only enough to fit on a sandwich plate: 1/4 slice of roast meat, 1 baby potato (1/2" diameter), 1 serving spoon of mixed veges, 1 spoon of ravioli (2 pieces of ravioli and 2 slices of mushroom) and a tiny piece of quiche (2" x 1"). I was a little nervous going back to the table, wondering what they'd think of big fat me taking this small meal, whether they'd think I was pretending to eat small for show or something. When we got to our table, I was shocked to see that my serving size was almost the largest portion taken by anyone there. These ladies weren't on a diet, they weren't trying to eat small, they'd just taken what they normally would take at an evening meal, and guess what? The "bandster size" isn't "tiny" at all!! It was their NORMAL meal size. That really brought home to me how skewed my ideas of portion sizes were. I'd been feeling all good and virtuous about eating these "little" meals and being so "good", and here it was the normal everyday standard for slim, fit, healthy women! No wonder I'm fat .

I don't agree. While I am most definitely not a Christian, I did spend quite a bit of time in bible study and I believe it directly refers to the act of prayer, not the general receiving of salvation. Matthew 21:22 (King James Version) 22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. John 16 (King James Version) 23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. And the promise that prayer WOULD grant what was asked, not some hidden will of God is contained here: Matthew 7:7 (King James Version) 7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

No I don't, although I have noticed signs of it in myself particularly on long drives, as well as signs of many other related disorders, such as excessive sleep twitching as I fall asleep, several instances of hypnogogia/sleep paralysis, and a few instances of epileptic fits brought on by extreme tiredness and general abuse of my body (several years ago). None of it occurs often enough or is debilitating enough to say that I "have" it, but I think there is some minor neurological disfunction in there somewhere. Why do you ask?

We all read about different types of pre-op diets and some who have had to do them, some who haven't. Most of us have also read or been told that the purpose of the pre-op diet is to shrink the liver to make surgery easier. So...how effective is that overall? Does the pre-op make a difference in post-op pain and recovery times? If so, how much? I did a pre-op of Optifast and steamed veges, with the occasional substitution of a very lean meat dinner with veges, but still sticking to the high Protein, low carb, low fat rules. I am now 5 days post-op and my recovery has been fantastic - very little pain post op, mostly around the actual incisions, a little gas pain but not unbearable and I'm feeling just about fully recovered today. What were your experiences?

Brandy, I try not to put people down for their beliefs, although the young earth proponents trying to pass themselves off as actual science will get me ranting fairly quickly :party: My bestus girlfriend still asks me to read the Tarot for her, whenever she has a major life decision to make. She knows that I don't believe any of it, but it can be fun to play with and she takes the readings a lot more seriously than I do. This is a girl with a Masters in Education too, so she's not uneducated! RE the differing societies, I think a lot of it has to do with the historical roots of the countries. Europe has seen the rise and fall of many religions from pre-historic days, through the Grecian and Roman eras to modern Christianity. They've also seen the hypocrisy, pain and suffering brought about by religious institutions and I think they are collectively trying to "move on" from that. The USA was founded specifically by people seeking a safe haven to express their religious beliefs and I think the entire concept of religion is embedded in the fabric of your society. Australia was founded as a penal colony and our early settlers were the scattered few of the English ruling class and a main population of people with anti-authoritarian and rebellious tendencies. Religion has just never been that big of a deal here. When it was common in society, it was present, but it isn't as deeply tied in with our identity as Australians as it is tied to your identity as Americans. As secularism spread, it has been embraced here, whereas the US seems to cling to religion as part of its heritage.

This part is very weird for me. My society is VERY secular, and those with religious beliefs tend to keep it very much to themselves. Proclaiming religious beliefs publically is what would get you "those looks", not stating that you were an atheist. Even the very devout (and I have a couple in my extended family, including an ordained minister in the Church of England and a lay preacher in the Church of Christ), look upon the US style of ostentatious religion with distaste.

Wasa, your story sounds familiar, except for the very beginning. I was born into a Church of England family, but my father is a lapsed believer, while my mother is a staunch atheist. Starting at around 10, I became interested in spiritual matters and started going to church by myself to take bible lessons, and had myself confirmed at 12. I lapsed for a couple of years (first two years of high school, when I was being a rebellious little snot), and then went seeking again. I did the full gamut - Children of God, Anunda Maga, Hari Krishna and ended up being baptised into Christianity in the Church of Christ in my mid-teens. I left there several years later when a group of gossipy, back-stabbing girls and their close-minded parents demonstrated to me how hypocritical their beliefs were when translated into reality. I did the whole astrology, tarot, meditation thing, and even dabbled in Satanism. At one stage had myself convinced I knew how to astral travel and had personally grappled with demons for my soul! Later I learned about hypnogogia and sleep paralysis and those little escapades finally made sense :party:. The more I sought, the more I learned, the more I read about the human psyche and the power of our minds to convince ourselves of just about anything, the more I came to the conclusion that it was all myth and fantasy. One of my all time favourite books about this concept is The Social Construction of Reality. I don't doubt the sincerity of believers. I know how powerful and convincing those emotions can be. I just also know that it is our own minds convincing ourselves about a non-existant external "god", to satisfy multiple complex needs in individuals and society.

So why did he say "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened unto thee"? If that was actually said by a real being, then it's a lie.

But...but...but I'm known far and wide for my tactfulness and subtlety!! *bats eyelashes innocently*

Personally, I think the concept of the power of prayer and the existance of miracles is one of the most powerful arguments around for the NON existance of God. It goes like this:God is supposed to be "All Powerful" and "All Loving". We are told "God is Good", "God is Love" and "God is Truth". God has apparently promised us through his Word that he will grant prayers - "Ask and ye shall receive..." Devout people throughout all the ages have called upon God to grant them prayers. This has included pious nuns getting dragged out of their sacked convents to be raped and murdered and begging their God to save them, distraught parents pleading for the life of a beloved child on his/her death bed and shallow fools wanting to win their weekend football match. Of all these prayers, God apparently grants a miracle to some and denies it to others. Some claim the piousness of the prayer-maker affects his decision, others say he loves all of his children equally. Either way, there is no apparent rhyme or reason to the objective observer as to why some prayers are granted, yet others are not. In failing to answer some prayers, God proves himself a liar in promising that all prayers will be answered. Ahhh...but God does answer all prayers, say the devout. He just doesn't always do it in a way that can be recognised. He answers prayers not to suit our desires but to further his "Great Plan" for the world. If you are promised that you will receive all that you ask for, then you ask for a loaf but are given a stone on the pretext that he knows what is better for you, how is that keeping the promise that was made? This is not the action of a "Truthful God", this is the weaseling distortions of a liar. But his plan for this world is beyond our puny human understanding and it may be that it serves his purpose in some unknowable way for those nuns to be raped and murdered, for that baby to die in his mother's arms. If this is true, then God is either a capricious monster, answering prayers based upon some hidden whim, or he is a heartless monster, who doesn't hesitate to abandon his faithful to an horrifically painful death to further his own obscure agenda. What lesson is learned by allowing his chosen to be slaughtered, by ignoring the grief of his followers, that can outweigh the pain that he allows to occur by not granting prayers in the form in which they are requested? This is not the action of a Loving God, by any definition of the word "Loving" that I can understand. In conclusion, IF God exists and IF he has the power to grant prayer and perform miracles, THEN with every prayer he leaves unanswered and every miracle he leaves unperformed, he proves himself to be a capricious, heartless, lying monster. THAT is the antithesis of the God that described in his Word, and the entire concept falls down like the house of cards that it is.

I have a pool and live in Aus, so get to use it for more months than most but still not all year round, and I still say go for the hot tub, hands down, no question about it. I've been seriously contemplating ripping out the pool and building a hot tub instead (house came with pool when I bought it). Pools are a bloody great money pit and damned hard work!

I'd say that was a slight nervousness/fear of intruders - wanting to be able to see them coming? Just as many people will choose to sit facing the door in a restaurant and hate having to sit where someone can easily come up on them from behind.

I think it is probably a definition thing, Plain. As I said in my response to Gadgetlady, I tend to equate "fundamentalist" with the young earth and Adam-riding-dinosaurs beliefs. I've had many debates with mainstream Christians, where I have been able to afford them the respect of their beliefs, but the dino thing really does get my "scoff factor" going. I'm also not very good at distinguishing all the subtle variations in the US religious scene. It doesn't really matter though, as I don't believe in ANY of the concepts, so it is only a matter of degree. I've never had the opportunity to debate with a Jewish person with deep religious convictions. There are very few Jewish people in Australia (I looked it up once and I think it was only about 12,000). I think it is likely that it would end up in acrimony though, as I find the persona portrayed as God in the Old Testament to be a despicable, murderous, megalomaniac and that's hardly likely to lead to a civil debate :tongue2:. I can debate with people who hold Buddhist beliefs, as those tend towards spiritual concepts and leave the science to the scientists, but I am just as skeptical about those who believe in the physical reality of Krishna (there's a blue fairy at the bottom of the garden for you!) or those who follow Druidism or believe in the power of crystals, tarot and astrology.

There is also a big difference between the beliefs of most Christians and those who subscribe to the Young Earth theories and believe that Adam and Eve co-existed with dinosaurs, which is what I would describe as "fundamentalist Christians". It is those beliefs, which fly in the face of all known science and logic, that I find utterly ridiculous. While I still don't believe in the more mainstream Christian views, I do have more respect for those spiritual beliefs that don't defy reality.

I know :thumbup: I should probably take my mother's advice (I guess there's a first time for everything :tongue2:). I don't want to cause offence, but it's either shut up, lie through my teeth or cause the offence, as that really is how I feel about those views. To me they are utterly irrational and I have a very hard time taking someone seriously when they have expressed a belief in something that I find completely silly. Unfortunately, the very action of expressing my feelings about those views is taken to be disrespect by the people holding them. Try to think about it objectively. If someone was earnestly trying to convince you about something that you found to be utterly ridiculous (like blue fairies), would you find it easy not to scoff? Would you not wonder how they could have become convinced about such things? The closest I can get is to say that I respect your right to hold your own opinion and have your own beliefs. I can't bring myself to say that I respect the actual belief itself, because I don't. Sorry, I should just butt out now, because this forum isn't the place that I want to use to argue religious philosophies.

I have a wonderful daughter of my own and two delightful granddaughters, so I know full well the overwhelming emotions that come when you hold them for the first time and as you watch them grow. Doesn't make me believe in a god though :tongue2:. Sleep well and, if you are interested, do take a look at that article. It is very well-reasoned and presented in understandable layman's terms.

I don't doubt your sincerity in your deisre to extend the comforts of your religion to others and don't hold that against you. However, you need to realise than many atheists feel the same compulsion to "wake you up" from what we see as your "childish fantasies". I've stayed out of this debate until recently, as I know that once we get down to brass tacks in the debate, it is very hard for me to treat fundamentalist Christians with any measure of respect. Rather than offend people by stating my true opinion of those beliefs, I have bitten my tongue and followed my mother's advice of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". To me, it is like trying to have an argument with someone who is arguing with all sincerity for their belief in the little blue fairies who live at the bottom of the garden, or that Santa Claus really does live at the North Pole. They might seem to be very nice, very sweet and sincere people, but to be able to believe the "dinosaurs lived with Adam" nonsense, they obviously have a fault in their logical reasoning ability that I can't ignore when the debate gets heated.