Chelle B

We do need some margaritas for this to continue. People may like to believe that the limited science we have uncovered is the be-all and end-all of truth, but that doesn't make it true either. My definition of God is way different from the one you are talking about. I am reminded of a play that I thoroughly enjoyed years ago, called Steambath. I believe God granted us free will, and we have choice in life. I don't believe God is a Puppet Master. If you don't believe in prayer, that's cool with me. But you won't change my beliefs with absolute arguments. They just don't work with me - we don't have that experience or wisdom. And I see miracles every day - and my beliefs become stronger as a result. Not as a result of church doctrine, but my own experiences and observations.

Absolutely - that is what free will is all about, IMHO.

Oh, now it's getting fun! The nastiness is showing! I'm pretty sure people who do this are not praying to the cement statue, etc....

All I can do is ask. And it is rare indeed when I do that. I am pretty sure that I don't hold sway over the decisions of a supreme being.... Is it the prayers for a person who is suffering that help? Is it the knowledge that people are praying on that person's behalf what makes the difference? I like to think that there is power in prayer. MENSA has this debate on a regular basis, with about the same results. Been going on forever, and I'm sure will continue forever.

Nope - because it might make a difference. There are enough scientific studies (and yeah I could research and find the specific ones if I were so inclined), that show some amazing healing through the power of prayer. Something not explained by medical science. The good thing about my beliefs is that they are my own, not explainable (although I try sometimes), and are a conglomeration of things I've seen and learned all my life.

Interesting in that I believe my prayers are heard, but it seems to be interpreted as "prayers are answered". My reason for praying on behalf of someone who needs healing is more encompassing - if the person will not be healed physically, then perhaps can be helped mentally and emotionally. Sometimes I just want to understand, and the conversation I have with God (in my mind anyway), helps me to see the situation differently. Do you ever talk through a work problem with someone, just to come to the answer on your own? Because you talked through it? Prayer is sometimes like that for me. I've also believed in predestination since I was a child - not sure why, because I sure wasn't taught that. It's nice tho, because if I only have a predetermined number of days above ground - then I am sure not going to worry too much about how many there are left for me.

My prayers are more of a conversation - I rarely ask for anything except specific healing for someone who needs it.

Nice response.... Wouldn't life be nicer if everyone dropped the absolutes in their conversation (All, Never, Always...)

Exactly right! I love the debates, and the passion. When I pray I know that I am heard. So for me the discussions are entertaining and educational, and I'm secure enough in my beliefs that it doesn't become uncomfortable. (and the fact that I am right of course! :bounce:)

Does make for interesting discussion...

There is a reason that I love reading LBT R&R - people are so passionate about THEIR beliefs. Yeah, sometimes it gets ugly, and sometimes people gain up on someone; but overall lots of interesting discussion. Belief is just a psychological state wherein someone holds a premise to be true without necessarily being able to prove it to others. And hey, it's ok to hold different beliefs - as long as people don't try and pressure others to change. How boring would this earth be if everyone was the same? Studies of "belief" and "faith" are fascinating as they can be in total disagreement with common sense. And when it comes down to Atheism or Christian Faith for example, you gotta die to get the final word on that. Good thing I am patient.... So I will be fair and share my personal beliefs and a brief history. I was raised in the Episcopal Church, and encouraged to attend churches of my friends which gave me lots of exposure to different theologies. So....I do believe in God (one supreme being). Where I differ from most organized religions is that I believe that God presents himself to people in a way they will accept. So I believe that my God and Allah etc are the same - just the audience is different. The more I study the bible the more I can justify my beliefs. Remember this is only what I accept as truth. I also believe that we would all be better off if we lived by Buddhist philosophy - I see this as a way of live instead of a religion. The more I study the more I learn about life. And I plan to start RCIA in the first of the new year, and go through the full Catholic instruction. Whether I will convert will be decided at some later date. Since I was a child I always planned to become Catholic, for so many reasons. We will see. I have a son who is atheist, and I adore him. He is brilliant and personable and awesome - and we believe different things. We don't try to change each other. My only mental block about atheism is that I personally can't believe that "we" are the complete top of the ladder. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. We aren't wise enough. We aren't developed enough as a species. And we keep screwing up. We lost some of our abilities over the centuries as we develop tools to make our life easier (but psychic abilities are another whole topic). blah blah blah, and Chelle rambles on.... Wouldn't it be cool to sit around a table over margaritas and have these discussions????

I wish I had the answers for you. I have my own, very strong, beliefs; that mean something to me. However.... I honestly believe it is how you live your life that counts. You will statistically find hypocrites who are both believers and non-believers. You will find wonderful people in both arenas as well. I don't understand how some people believe anything blindly (I do understand faith, just not blind faith). I don't understand why so many people judge others based on silly criteria. I can't answer anything from the Atheist POV. I am reading the Bible to better understand religion as a whole. Very interesting reading at that... You may never get all the answers. You can just choose how to live your life every day. Good luck!

Nobody can make me grow up. Ever. And that is a conscious decision on my part. Life is too short to be so angry. The only part of your posts that is annoying is that you "laugh at fools who...". I just don't understand people who set themselves so far above others that they can judge everyone. Do your own thing, believe what you want, but the judgmental laughing at people who don't share your beliefs, whatever they are, is just plain rude.

What about some of the cool tools from Pampered Chef? They have some great things there and you can spend a little or a lot. My very favorite cooking tool of all time is the Mix and Chop. Mix 'N Chop : Cookware : The Pampered Chef, Ltd.

Chelle B <singing Christmas songs quietly to herself year round>

I started my career in accounting with all women, and was disgusted at how women in the workplace treat each other. So I would dig ditches before going back to that. The technical world worked out nicely for me and I adore all my co-workers!

I've been married three times, and I believe that in a GOOD marriage, as I have now for the last 11 years, there will be NO cheating involved. Can't say that for the BAD marriages.... May you find what took me so long to find - marriage to my best friend and hero.

This is why I work with all men....

Nope, never have and never will. I hate that word.

Spanking, or any hitting of a child, just teaches that the bigger person can dominate the smaller person. There are far more effective ways to discipline a child.

If money were no object, I would throw out all the schedules and alarm clocks! I would travel, and spend time in each place absorbing the culture. I would take care of family. I would have a huge menagerie. And a personal trainer/masseur. And I'd still have fun!

It never fails, just when I start catching up on sleep then comes the night where I am wide awake. Sunday nights most often, before starting the new week of work. Or just before I travel. So I've had a wonderful and restful holiday week. Tomorrow I have physical therapy at 6am, then an MRI on my knee at 9am. It's 1:37am now, and my alarm goes off in 3.5 hours. Is it even worth the bother? I never had insomnia until I worked at Microsoft in Redmond. Average work days were 12-14 hours, 6-7 days per week. I once calculated my salary if I were paid by the hour, and it was way below minimum wage. But I loved working there, even though I worked 7 years in a 3 year period. Since then sleep comes and goes. When I am well rested as I am now, well no rest for the wicked I guess. It just seems unfair that tomorrow I will be tired and irritated inside, while I will be so professionally chipper on the outside. I hate the split personality routine, and I just want to go in to work grumpy wearing sweats. Not likely to happen tho, I love spending too much to risk my job. And it would be ok to be awake if I had something to occupy my mind. Nothing on TV right now worth watching. I finished my Dean Koontz book, and I don't see anybody awake on IM. So I will sit around here and whine to myself for awhile, while drinking a lot of Water to wash down the SF fudgesicle I just finished. Bleh. Whine. Moan. Grump. Damned Insomnia! :angry

May be. I go through spells of needing little sleep then need lots of sleep. I wasn't tired today at all, so maybe I was just well rested. I will probably take some Tylenol with Codeine tonight since I am sore from physical therapy, and then I should sleep well.

Thanks, I will talk to my doc. I went to bed around 3 and the alarm went off at 5. I am sleepy now.

I tend to swell when flying which makes the band feel tighter. Make sure to drink lots of Water before, during and after the flight.