Gone4Now

Ahh...no fair! When this is all said and done, I know I'll need a lift. Everywhere.

I think Ugly Betty is so pretty! But, see...another stereotype. (Should I watch the show before I judge...? shrug) put glasses, braces and a few extra pounds = ugly. Poor kids who wear glasses, have braces and a few extra pounds - like me, in 9th grade. No wonder I'm so f'ed up!

I'm not trying to be as arrogant as the person telling me I have no rational thought. Being so irrational, it's extremely amazing that I see the parrallels to the previous post. Funny thing, though...I believe science and religion work hand in hand. I'm not anti-science, or anti-darwin. I simply believe that there are things far greater than that, and that there is a creator. I don't know who, or what. But, for me - how can it not be more personal for a deep believer than a non-believer? In that statement, I'm trully am not trying to take away from what you believe or don't believe. I'm simply saying take an example of a monk in discussion with your average athiest Joe. I think the concept of religion is going to mean more to the Monk than Joe. The reverse is true, too, I imagine. If you take a well established athiest scientist vs. me, I'd be less personal about it. I believe in science, but I image the scientist who's devoted a whole life to it would be more wrapped up in it. I admit I'm ignorant in that area and I would think the science for him/her would be far more meaningful than it is to me. When someone lives their life for something/someone - anything - it's more meaningful and more deeply personal than to someone who just has a passing theory on it. It becomes an extension of who you are. If being an athiest is as proud and meaningful for you as God is to a devout Christian, then I am sorry for the unintended arrogance of my presumption.

Thank you, yes. That was my line of thought. I had to bow out last night to attend real life for a little while. :thumbup:

Slam...or timeline? Just being overly sensitive here...but I'm reading that as a slam. Am I child because I believe? Or are you saying that as soon as you became an adult you stopped believing?

That's what I said. Not my religion...just faith itself. To believe there is something greater than you, we're not just defending an idea or a science - we're defending our GOD. How can that not be more personal? If someone says athiesm is wrong, you can argue that because it's what you thought to choose. It's a choice you're defending. For many Christians (for ME) it's a feeling of something deeper and greater than a choice. I didn't choose it, it chose me. The athiests I've known could take a religious debate or not...it wasn't personal to them. They'd rather talk about the weather or politics, or just watch a movie...It wasn't a matter of deep importance to them. Maybe it's different to you. Maybe you take non-practicing as deep and personal as religious people take their God. If you had a choice between life/death if you denounced your NON-faith, would you? Would you die for your non-belief? Many Christians would, and that's the level of intensity their feelings of their belief is. Maybe I missed it...like I said, I've been reading this one-sided, but did anyone call you names here? Perhaps you need to consider the source - as you said. I think most people here on LBT are open (with an exception here and there) but no minds are going to be changed on a discussion board. In your real life, if someone calls you an idiot, child eating, burn-in-hell- witch, I'd wonder about their sanity. Again, it's not that I'm against the labeling of idiots. People can do dumb things - and when they do them all the fricking time, I label them an idiot. But I either try not to deal with those people, or if I have to, I restrain myself out of politeness for the company I'm with. I haven't been attacking you, or trying to hurt your feelings. I haven't been that sarcastic, and when I have it was an obscure joke. Most of the sarcasm here has come from you - and I'm not sure it was warranted. You've called religion - something that is very personal to me and many others - a superstition. You've labeled that as something beneath you, and not worthy of believing in. Well, great - kudos to you. My point is that, if someone were to dismiss a belief of yours (say DS vs Lapband, maybe?) you wouldn't tolerate it very well and would put up a greater fight than if it were something you didn't care about or have a personal interest in.

Yes...and no. Being called an idiot is going to be taken pretty much the same way whether you believe in anything or not. No matter if the person IS an idiot, it's not really effective to call them that. I think the Sears repairman from the weekend was an idiot - Christian or not - but I refrained from telling him that. I may be going on a limb here, but TO ME, I *think* that a belief in God, or higher power is more personal, than a non-belief is. So, attacks on a believers ideals is taken harder by that person than attacks on a non-believers ideals. I don't get the eat babies comments...I am sure THAT is personal to you and I'd be grumpy. I'm really not talking about people who think you are a heathen, damn you to hell, and make claims that you eat children. I'm also not trying to take away from your non-belief. Look at people who feel God at church, or the people who set out on long pilgramages - it's deep and it's very personal. I *think* that's why this post is being taken to heart by the Christian side and on the athiest side you have theories and science - but it doesn't seem to be as personal. One side is speaking from the heart, the other from the head.

In addition...I think I take hits more personally being a Christian than being an athiest. I don't believe in the Great Pumpkin - so if I were arguing with a person who did, I don't think it would be as heartfelt as the person who believes. Unless a Great Pumpkin worshipper had pissed in my Cheerios...then I'd be grumpy, but still not at all GP'ers...just that ONE. So, my apologies to TommyO and Wasa if I mistook your posts to be attacks.

Well, I've been telling people you eat babies....sorry. I am sorry - I took it to mean you consider the source of the Christian, not the *idiots* who think you eat babies.

Okay, well, right there: What does that mean about consider the source? Am I taking that wrong? Am I being over-sensitive? I've dated so many athiests (actually - all past bf's aside from the current one) and been friends with so many that it doesn't bother me, either. I've known dumb ones - and extremely smart ones. I don't think any of them ate babies...but, if they were athiest babies, I wouldn't mind. :smile2:

Well, I appreciate the clarification. I did read it wrong. Or, rather, read a more broad stroke of "idiot" than intended. I have been reading all this and mostly staying quiet because 1) no one's mind is going to be changed on this, so why bother? and 2) most of what I've been thinking (or more, in some cases) has been said. I've been on both sides. I've doubted and not believed, then came back to my religion (not my denomination, but a belief in something greater.) What made me jump in was that it seems to me that the anti-Christians are being ruder than the anti-athiests. I could be wrong, and I could be reading more into than there is, as I did w/you, TommyO. Are any athiests feeling angry as they read this, the way I am as a Christian? I *feel* that, with the exception of a few posters on either side, the underlying tone is hatred towards Christians in this thread, when the opening question was rather innocent. (Again, in my opinion - which could be way off.)

Good point. However, *I* have not called any one an idiot for their beliefs, and it would be nice for some to keep this civil. On both sides. :smile2: I believe that people need to come to their own beliefs and I'm not arguing as much as just curious to know how/what others think. (I'll argue the idiot point, though, because it's *wrong*...ha - couldn't resist.) Why not? Usually it's domination not sexual pleasure for humans and, I believe it's the same with other animals - at least, from what I've read about the behavior. Well, I certainly wasn't saying humans are dogs (although I've dated my share, I guess). I was saying we're animals, and pack animals at that. One argument is that humans *shouldn't* rape because it's morally wrong. And that those morals are based on the fact that we're here for the good of the group. But, as with dogs, their nature is the "good of the group", too. So, what makes them kill and rape? If it's for the good of the group, which their actions should be since they are pack animals, then why shouldn't humans kill/rape, too?

Well, in my personal life, one's opinions of me sometimes matter. If someone calls me an idiot to my face, and depending on who they are, I either laugh, walk away or flatten them on their ass. On LBT, I was pretty sure the name calling was a no-no. Am I wrong?

LOL - Ready, I know you're in pain and frustrated over it, but at least you're keeping your sense of humor. They say before you kill, that's the first to go. (Right? Don't they say that??? Put the knife down...I'm just kidding.) :smile2: Seriously, though. You know my story and even though the weight fell off at first, it slowed down. Who knows? Maybe it will work opposite for you. Maybe it will take your body longer to adjust. Did you watch Biggest Loser? There was one girl who just lost a little each month, but she eventually did it. And that's the thing. It's not going as FAST as you like, but it is going. Can you start small? Set little goals and keep a narrow focus on that? Like when I want to grow my hair out - hang on, the story gets better, really. My hair is so fricken slow. Unlike my friend who has grown her hair to her butt 4 times in 10 years and cut it to donate it. My hair has never been to my butt - it just stops below my shoulders. Anyway - when I want to grow it, I wear it up a lot. That way, I'm happy with the progress that I can see, when I finally look at it. Did I just babble, or what? Did I make any sense, I hope?

I would love to go...Please keep us posted.

Are all religions being attacked here, or just Christianity? And, is it really being said that if we believe in God, we're idiots? Just want to be clear on that... Also, a strange point of view on rape: Animals rape each other. Dogs do, monkeys do, etc... I have no idea if a dog or monkey believes in God or evolution, but either way if rape is wrong because it doesn't do well for the species then why would pack animals rape each other, when all that is ingrained in them is survival of the group? They rely on basic instinct, and that instinct is to kill and rape. If humans instinct is animal in nature (and, isn't it?) then what moral code is ingrained in us? And - why? Why do humans have an "instinct" that goes against other species' basic natures? I guess this brings us more towards a "Lord of the Flies" discussion, huh?

I love my band, let me just say that. I've lost 70 pounds so far, but got an unfill 4 weeks ago due to being too tight. I was going to go back after a couple of weeks, but I got sidetracked with some personal issues that took all my free time. Now I'm free to go back but I've fallen into the basic fat person's mentality. My birthday is soon and we're planning a trip to Dave and Buster's and I'm not getting a fill because I want to eat and drink that night without pb'ing or restricting my intake. And, God. I hate how that looks as I write it down. I feel like I have the angel on one shoulder saying, "Go get the fill...you've had plenty of birthdays" and the devil on the other going, "It's just another week...what's a week?" I'm doing WW with my daughter and I keep creeping up in weight. I've gained one pound every week since going, but I wasn't worried because I'll be getting a fill soon. But I feel like a fake, and on top of that, I feel like a failure. And, THOSE feelings propel me further into eating! I can't win when I'm fighting me. Help!? Fill NOW (Okay, Monday since Doc doesn't do fills on Fridays or weekends.) Or wait until after the 18th?

100%! I love this feeling! Those size 16s I bought months ago are still waiting for me! :tongue2: Congratulations! :smile2: I love this site for it's honesty. When I call for "support" from my friends, I know how to word it and manipulate it so that they end up saying, "oh, go ahead and eat the cake...it won't hurt you. here, I'll even join you!" Why not be fat forever, you know? Here, at LBT, you don't get lipservice! You get the kick in the rear that you NEED...not the advice that you WANT. Get the fill, get back on target. You've (we've) come so far!

Yeah...there was a study done recently about that. About fat being contagious. It's true. When I'm with skinny people, I eat at their pace because I don't want to embarass myself. But, when I'm around fatter people, I'll eat more. I would rather be the odd-ball and eat at MY pace, which now is great!!! (I just got back from my fill...3ccs)

No, not off. It's absolutely true. I'm in a situaton now where I'm comfortable in life financially - I'm still mostly broke, but I make do with a house, a good job, a new-ish car and take a trip every year. I work hard to maintain that, though, and one slip and I'm back to broke in heartbeat. Well, I'm selling my house my brother wants to buy it. He was scheduled to take a trip in Sept, but I can't wait that long, since it's on the market now and I want to be settled before school begins. Soooo, I decided to buy him and his wife and airline ticket to come for the weekend. I have credit - and I'll use it! So, his comment to my mother was that I must be made of money. I've lent him money, and I supplement my parent's rent since they're on retirement income. In a family that doesn't have too many "successes" it can be a little strange to be the on to get ahead. All eyes are on you, and some are not so friendly. It's definitely easier to stay in the shadows than to out-shine your loved ones.

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Taking action when you recognize bad behavior is the key to success, not eliminating all bad behavior. I love this! So many times I beat myself up for being a failure and it's because I have bad faults and do try to eliminate them. I'm seeing now that's impossible to do and it's just setting myself up for failure.

Oh, yes...Called on Friday and the next appt is Tues in the morning. I've been mostly good today, since I know getting a fill when you've eaten sucks. 'Cept, I did ask my BF to make his famous chili for dinner tonight. I've missed it in the last several months (Near Thanksgiving is when I had it last). Interesting, too was this memory of mine: Several years ago I'd lost 50 pounds on Atkins (the most I've lost ever on any diet, aside from my band) and I blew it on my birthday. After a year, my mother made a great cake for me and I had some, thinking I'd just go back on it the next day...then next week...then next month - and POOF! 50 pounds plus came right back on in no time and I've never been on Atkins since. Something about my damn birthday! :wink2: lol

Oooh...Bonus! I hadn't thought of that. I get to appease my guilt and eat my cake, too! (or, at least a bite or two...right?) :wink2:

Actually, no...just the opposite. I was very surprised. I guess when your underwear is a wedgie, there's no reason to pull it out. I still wear the old undies during housework, or to sleep if I'm wearing just a t-shirt and THOSE give me wedgies. One thing about the thongs is that I can only get them from LB. They're the only ones with enough wisdom to know that you need more material in the front to cover the belly - even if you don't want it in the back to cover the @$$. Other places don't use enough material and my belly fat hangs out from underneath. :biggrin: Attractive, eh? TMI? Although, to be honest, as I'm losing weight I need to get more. I've updated the sizing of my shirts and pants, but my bras and undies are sliding around on me. My boobs have extra material bunching up on top and around them, and my panties are sliding constantly to the left and right, and are so very uncomfortable! Anyone else dragging their feet about updating their drawers?