Tizzielish

One good bit of information I got from my very first NUT 11 years ago when first diagnosed with diabetes: milk has a lot of sugar in it. And, somewhat paradoxically, at least it seems wrong to me, skim milk has more sugar than whole milk. When you strip out the fat to make low fat milk, the ratio of sugar increases. A cup of skim milk has about 15 carbs -- carbs become sugar as soon as they hit your blood stream and if sugar makes you dump . . . I never eat sugar anymore -- because of my diabetes. Reading about dumping reinforces my resolve. If you explore, and can learn to like organic stevia (a natural no calorie, no carb sweetener - at first I hated it but I got used to it), you can have sweets -- but I have not had the surgery. I do know that I stopped doing sugar years ago because of my diabetes and you just get used to it. I am also highly disciplined about carbs, eating as few as possible. A homeopath recently asked me if I ate carbs and said I shouldn't and I said "it is impossible. I resisted giving up cow's milk for 8 or 9 years but now I just don't do cow milk or cheese. Coconut milk is my answer. I love milk, too. I used to drink a glass of skim milk every day and loved every drop. But now it is no longer on my radar. there is also almond and soy milk but I quite dislike soy, almond is okay but coconut milk and I were a match made in heaven.

I use raw 100% whole organic whey, natural flavor. It's expensive. I swear here in USA someone has cornerd the market. About a year ago, I could buy it bulk for $17 a pound and now it is hard to find at $36 a pound and the businesses who sell it online (no local stores can get it in bulk -- I even talked to the wholesaler who supplies the whole western half of USA and was told no one can find it anywhere -- I am sure someone saw it was getting popular and bought it up. Here in the states, and perhaps everywhere but all I know is herre, people can sell future crops and food products and I have a hunch someone has been buying whey as a commodity and cornering the market. IT happened very quickly, being widely available to being hard to find. It is very easy to buy whey isolate but almost always loaded with chemicals, including soy lecithin. They say the soy lecithin makes the powder easier to mix but that's baloney, at least if you use a mini single serving blender like I do. I bought a $25 single serving blender that uses an actual bottle on the blender, blending with bottle upside down and then you put on the lid and can take your bottle and sip sip sip away all morning. Look at the list of chemicals. And one thing many don't know: most 'added vitamins' are made with lots of harsh chemicals and aren't nearly as good for you as the marketing words on the package claim. A guy on this forum, who works here, says whey isolate is just fine. To make whey isolate, they denude the whey of much of its nutrition. AS the guy pointed out, Gibbons, I think is his name, the denuding process strips out fats but it is a mistake to think one can be healthy with no fat. There are good fats and our bodies need them. The Proteins in whole whey are good fats and good for you and you don't eat mass quantities of the stuff. Besides, here in USA, I have yet to find an organic whey isolate and I insist on organic. I am not actually an organic fanatic. But when I see unrecognizable words in the ingredients list, which you always see on whey isoalte packaging, I dn't buy it -- those are chemicals and we don't know enough about how they affect our bodies. The food processors put them in cause they are cheap but they still get to charge top dollar as if you were getting the pure whey. You said UK Sleever that you are in UK. I bet you can find 100% certified organic whole whey, natural flavor. With natural flavor whey, you can make anything: add a few frozen strawberries, or chocolate --I use raw as much as possible, esp. with whey and chocolate - processing food denudes nutrients virtually always in all foods and I no longer eat any processed food -- I got fat eating government subsidized cheap processed foods as an ordinary American diet and I am not eating processed food again. Chocolate, cinnamon, ginger, tumeric (not so tasty in a shake but the #1 medicine in ayurvedic medicine for diabetics, which is one of my comorbidities) -- you can add frozen blueberries, or raspberries or a scoop of Peanut Butter. Blend it a few seconds. The frozen fruit gives the shake an almost ice cream texture. I often add one half frozen banana - and now, to me, it is like a milkshake. Mostly I do chocolate shakes, not always frozen bananas, not always peanut butter. I'll go on a jag of berries. My freezer always has frozen berries. A frozen berry tip: let the frozen berries sit out for 20 minutes before you blend them with the whey. Frozen, you don't always taste their great flavor but if you half thaw them you get the frothy effect of the frozen and you taste the great berry. I add organic stevia to my shakes: no calories, no carbohdrates. I don't think it will be a problem post op cause it is nothing like sugar but I'll find out, won't I? You must have some websites similar to amazon that sell everything these days. I buy most of my supplements and Protein on amazon which usually has best prices but I always check. Since the organic whole whey market has been in such flux, I change companies as needed. A company I have bought from before might become unable to get new product -- someone has cornered the market, I am sure of it. I am sure someone sells 100% certified organic whole whey. Health food stores all sell lots of protein powders. If you don't insist on organic and natural flavor (if you buy chocolate flavored, you are paying the same for that chocolate as you pay for the whey --- think about it, a one pound container of 'whey' loaded with artificial sweeteners -- none of them are good for you but stevia, imho -- and with flavors -- you are paying $35 a pound for the chocolate and the sweetener. But if you buy only whey powder and add your own stuff it is way cheaper. I started my Protein Powder journey about six years ago, drinking one before my daily one hour lap swim. I cringe now to think of the chemical laden stuff I used to bithely devour. My boyfriend got into protein powder and he figured out natural whole whey was best and that I could add any flavor I want and make whatever I want. Plus with natural flavor, you can add protein powder to things like oatmeal, muffins (there are lots of recipes for high protein Snacks that actually use protein powder, and gluten-free, almost-carb-free flour like almond flour or coconut flour. And my guy gave me the idea to use unsweetened coconut milk for my Protein Shakes -- the cocomilk has health fats, low calories, almost no carbs. Coconut is almost a miracle health food. The coconut milk took my protein shakes to a whole new level. NOw I make cream of mushroom Soup -- with coconut milk! Or butternut squash soup with coconut milk. I drink my own blend of chai with coconut milk as a special treat -- with stevia. I use maybe 1/4 cup cocomilk so it is very low calorie. It took me about two days to adjsut. For years, I resisted alternatives to cow milk even as my best friend lived off almond. Here's a great low calories healthy treat: coconut milk, chocolate powder and stevia to sweeten: hot chocolate. I don't know when I will be able to drink that post op but I will and it is super healthy. Many don't realize that chocolate is very very good for us -- it's the sugar that is usually added to it that isn't. Long answer. Short answer: google, or whatever search engine you use, for 100% raw organic whey, not whey isoalte. I am sure someone sells it where you live. I have only been trying to use raw for about a year and I don't do pure raw and I am not going to -- it is a ton of work to eat all raw. But why raw? Because processing food denudes it of some nutrition and I want every calories I put into my body to count. Last year, eating protein shakes, protein and low carb vegies, I went from 267 to 216 -- no surgery. Then my endocrinologist tested me and decided I was Type I -- without changing my diet, suddenly I was using a lot more insulin and in 6 weeks regained 30 pounds. When I was at 216, I decided I wouldn't do the surgery, that's I'd just keep eating the post surgery way. If I had done it for a year already, I reasoned, why not. But that was before the insulin changed my life. When I complained to my endocrinologist, he shrugged and said 'everyone knows insulin makes a person gain" as if my morbid obesity was irrelevant, that all he cared about was my diabetes. I tend to run on, as you can see. If you can't afford 100% raw whey, buy what you can. I used highly processed protein powder loaded with chemicals for over a year -- I lost a lot of weight, so if that is your goal, weight loss, any protein powder will do. I am interested in maximizing the nutritional value of what I eat -- not just as weight loss but to be healthy as I keep aging. I am 60. I want to remain healthy. Aging will take its toll but I don't have to enable poor health by eating chemicalized and highly processed food. But if you can only afford processed whey, go for it. Whey is spposed to be the easier to digest. I jsut got some raw vegan protein and I'll use it up -- and, ugh, I bought 2.2 pounds -- but I feel bloated all day after drinking it. It tastes about the same as the whey in a natural flavor -- natural flavor is no flavor so no flavor vegan or no flavor whey is about the same. But I don't like the way I feel. The whey, for me, definitely digests better. Keep in mind: all my talk is before surgery. There are women in my support groups offered through my surgery center who eat food I have never eaten, highly processed junk, even after surgery. By highly processed hunk, I mean they consider Carnation's Instant Breakfast to be a Protein Drink. I guess it is but it is full of chemicals, not a lot of protein and not for me. And lots of folks buy canned Soups but canned soups are almost always high sodium and also have chemicals. It is so easy to make soups. I stew a chicken, debone it, put the chicken back and dump in a pound or more of kale or spinach. With lots of seasonings, it is super yummy, densely nutritious, very low calories. During the puree post op phase, I'll make the same soup and puree it in my Vitamix blender. And when I go into surgery, my fridge is going to be stocked with my homemade chicken broth. Again, look at the ingredient list of packaged chicken broth. Nobody really knows why so many humans are obese these days but I am convinced it is the poor quality of processed foods. Just by gradually improving what I eat I have already gone down from all time high of 330 to, today, 240 (alas, I was down to 216 a year ago and the insulin nightmare began). I do run on.

Maybe you should consider finding another nutritionist. I have prepared to bariatric surgery three times, including this time -- I am definitely doing it this time, just have a couple insurance hoops and I jump thru the last hoop on Nov 7 and then I'll get a surgery date. But I have been to lots of nutrition classes -- required by the different surgery centers -- and met many nutritionists -- and this is the first time I heard a nutritionist tell a newly post op not to use Protein shakes. I suspesct that it a bias of your nutritionist and not a science-based piece of advice. Like DLCoggin said: you need protein and this post op period doesn't last forever. There is a wide range in quality of Protein powder and shakes. My goodness, I don't think I could get enough protein in my egg-size stomach post-op if I had to eat only eggs, meat, fish. Some proteinpowders are loaded with bad chemicals, poor sugars or sugar substitutes and many are against all protein powder. I use 100% organic usda certified whole whey protein and you can add to the natural flavor to anything and get in a lot of protein with every swallow. 100% whole whey protein organic is good for everyone. And the post op phase doesn't last. In Seattle and now in East Bay of San Francisco Bay area, every bariatric medical person I have talked to says only liquids for first couple weeks -- how the heck can you get any protein in if you are on all liquid? I expect I will want to stay on Liquid Protein longer than they advise because I will be anxious about how my stomach will handle real food. Your nutritionist has good intentions but it seems to me she has a bias about protein supplements. At least ask her for her philosophy or ask your doc. And if you are suicidal, as others have said, get some help. And hang in. It gets better. I know it because everything always does.

Nevermind -- I took a closer look at the Wellesse site. They sell lots of supps in liquid form -- which greatly interests me -- but they do not actually recommend their protein liquid for bariatric patients. You were right, Truckerchic.

I know the info on the Wellesse website is provided to sell their products but they specifically say it is good for bariataric surgery patients. I'd like to find out more about this product. 10g of protein in one ounce while my stomach is the size of an egg sounds great to me. My protein shakes now give me 20 to 23 grams of protein but they are 8 ounces of liquid -- it would take hours to get it all down and I'd still need more. 10 g in one ounce liquid sounds smart -- just for the early weeks. I am going to a required nutritio class on Monday. I'll ask about it, altho I bet the NUT knows nothing. I have yet to meet a NUT working for a bariataric clinic that knew anything about the needs of bariatric patients and nutrition.

truckerchic --- thanks for those suggestions for online info. I had been thinking I was going to buy a cookbook post surgery. But I know from a lowcarbdiet support forum -- because of my diabetes, I eat as few carbs as possible -- that I find better low carb recipes and endless variety from online support forums. I am sure two women who share food tips several years post-surgery are better than most cookbooks. I was really concerned. My one hour NUT consultation was a general, and basically useless ramble in which she said 'eat lots of Protein, do liquids for 3 weeks and then slowly intro pureed food' and that was it. I seriously think bariatric centers should either share lists of good links for food info or hand out one decent post-bariatric surgery cookbook to every patient. I know the sites you suggested UK-Sleever will be good. Hands on experience shared is the best help for me. Thank you.

I have to say your nurse might not know a lot about nutrition. mashed potatoes? You can pureed all kinds of better choices for the stage of mushy food. Skip potatoes. I gave up potatoes many years ago and don't eat any ever, even pre-op. They are cheap food, heavily pesticided if not certified organic. You don't get enough nutritinal bang out of them to waste the small amounts you can eat on potaotes, imho. A small inexpensive food processor can puree anything. Eat some cooked pureed vegetable but not potato!

I might as well report here, Candy, since you and I seem to be the only folks in this support website who have tried vegan protein: The Warrior Blend of raw vegan Protein powder -- they have two kinds, I passed on their main one which is lots cheaper cause it was only rice protein -- and I got the blend that has protein from hemp, pea and cranberry.Who knew cranberry had significant protein?!!! not me! I got natural flavor so the flavor is the same as the natural whey. The vegan Protein Powder is gritty -- I feel the grit crunching on my teeth. I could live with that. But something in it seems to cause painful bloat in my stomach. I have been using 100% organic and raw whey protein for a couple years and I am likely going to switch back. I might try Garden of Life but the raw organic whey works so well for me that I am probabl gonna stick with it. But I will use up the 2.2 pounds of Warrior Blend I have -- not gonna waste it.

good luck -- just remember, it is not therapy. S/he just wants a general sense that you are a stable human who can handle the stress post surgery. The eval not the time to process your emotions about weight, health, whatever. and let us know how it goes!

If you have had a major episode of bipolar, that eval is not the time to talk about it. Be upbeat. S/he knows you have bipolar. Tell them only upbeat thoughts. You know what is right for you. Downplay your bipolar issues, be upbeat and answering any questionnaire with positivity. I think it is a legal-cover-legal-liablility criteria -- and a flimsy one (I say this as an attorney). I had to go to a required, waste-of-time pre-surgery support group. 200 womenin a room all in one big group who each got to speak for 30 seconds. Geez. I couldrun a better support group. Break that many up into smaller circles so each circle can allhave some air time to actually get actual support. sitting next to me was a sweet Latina who kept crying cause the shrink said she had to return to him in a year and show him her depression was improved. I wanted to pull her aside and say "when you go back, lie". All she had done was wrongly assume talking to a therapist was a good time to show her struggles over her health and weight and she cried. I always cry in therapy but these evals are not therapy. that gal had made a bad judgment call. She should not have cried throughout her eval. Now if she couldn't pull herself together for an hour and appear okay, then, the shrink might have been right in sayig she was too depressed but I think she as naive and did not know how to play the game. Play the game. It's our lives.

I am pre-op and the sipping Water is the thing I most dread. I can eat tiny amounts of food -- I have been doing so a long time. Without surgery I am down from 330 to 240 but I got down to 215 and then with my insulin regimen, I would pop up 30 or 40 pounds, starve down, pop back up so I surrender and am going the surgery. So I have been taking the post-op supps a long while - was schedule to have the surgery last Jan but I had lsot so much weight I cancelled it. then I got my diabetes diagnosis changed from Type II to Type I -- that also discouraged my interest in the surgery cause the surgery is not going to put Type I into remission Type I is an autoimmune disease unrelated to what I weight. I can eat very small amounts of food, even just starve and have actually gotten used to being hungry a lot. But water is my best friend. I drink a ton of it -- at least a gallon, probably more. Now I have started sipping, to prepare myself for my proably-Jan 2014 surgery -- but sipping is hard. You have my empathy,

I eat only foods I buy fresh. I actually make my own coconut milk, coconut and almond flouer (for the high Protein and low carb content) because there is NO cocomilk sold without carrageenan, a known carcinogen. It is extremely hard to buy food that is not full of chemicals. The chemicals are cheaper than food, which is why corporations add them but charge as if you are getting only food. After my surgery, I will eat the way I am now. I'm not committed to vegan. I do plan to eat one Protein shake every day the rest of my life -- for the protein, yes, but also because it is a convenient way to add all the stuff I'll have to take the rest of my life in one yummy - cause I make great shakes -- to compensate for malabsorption. I am already on the post op suppps to get used to it, as required by my surgeon. Candy, I had not realized Calcium came in liquild form -- good to know. I have ordered some and will add to my daily shake. I am envisioning myself perpetually sipping a shake for the rest of my life. It's not true, Pear, that one can't get enough nutrients on a vegan diet -- maybe such a choice means different supplements but everyone has to do the supps if they do the RnY. What's a couple more tossed into the protein shake going to mean? Everyone that has the RnY deals with malasorption and compensates with supplements. Someone can do a vegan high protein diet and compensate with supplements.

Pear, you say any company could put organic on a box. That is not true. There are speciic legal organic standards that have to be met. Altho I never eat anything that comes in a box except Protein powder and supplements. ALL food that comes in a box, even if it has 100% USA Certified Organic ingredients - and you can't claim that unless it is true and proven -- is also full of chemicals. Take shredded cheese. Even organic shredded cheese has a chemical added to it to keep the bits of shredded cheese from clumping because cheese without the chemical clumps. It is not just a fat. Chemicals in food are not just a fad. They are real and the crap foods highly processed and sold in boxes is why many americans get so fat they need bariatric surgery. You can't rewrite reality. Organic is not something anyone can slap on a box.

Once a person has had RNY (or whatever bariatric surgery they choose), yes, calories matters but the difference in calories doesnt matter much. And yes, esp. at first, it is important to get in enough protein but the difference between 17 g protein and 20 g protein in a serving is not very important. The quality of the protein matters more than the intensity of how much you get per serving -- esp right after surgery when you aren't eating large amounts of anything anyway. a few grams one way or another of protein does not matter as much as the nutrition." Nutrition has had a lot to do with why I needed the surgery -- I am never going to skip over top nutrition ever again.

I disagree with what you say about whey isolate. The calorires supposedly saved by the denuding process to make isolate are insignificant. Look at the ingredient list of any whey isolate: it is full of chemicals. People can do what they want but the whey isolate is denuded of the very important benefit of healthy fats. Even on weight loss, we need those good fats. It might be good for those who are lactose intolerant but I have never understood why someone who is lactose intolerant wouldn't just find a vegetarian Protein powder. If you buy natural flavored ones, you can doctor up a vegetarian powder to be chocolate, strawberry, raspberry, coffee, mocha -- anything you want and entirely avoid the lactose issue. I have not yet eaten any vegie protein powder -- awaiting delivery of my first order. I went with Warrior because it has a Warrior Blend with nothing added but three kinds of protein. I don't want to pay the very high prices charged for these products for the additives. I can add the nutrition I want buying it myself at much lower prices. And I note you do not discuss organic whole whey versus whey isolate which is rarely organic -- weight loss might be our main goal but my overeall goal is to eat highly nutritious, 'real' food. I don't buy anything processed except protein powder, only 100% usda certified organic. I have yet to find a 100% organic whey isolate.

AND . . . .I've been using 100% organic whole whey Protein which has literally doubled in price within the past year. I pay $35 to $40 a pound and believe me, I scour the world for deals. Vegan Protein powder seems cheap b comparison. That's not why I'm tring vegan -- I am just interested in shifting to an all plant diet.

Thanks for the WArrior tip -- never heard of that brand. I am glad to hear you seem to like your NUT. I have yet to meet one that seemed very intelligent. They all tell me didfferent things. My nurse case manager just told me yesterday that most nutritionists are lazy college students who major in nutrition when they figure out nursing is harder and their knowledge greatly depends on the quality of their school and not that many good nutrition programs. The nutritionist my surgeon uses is a ninny but my endocrinologist has an awesome one who has written two textbooks on nutrition. I still have to use the ninny -- but just once -- and I get my real NUT advice my my endo's gal.

I just ordered my first container of Garden of Life Protein powder. As indicated by some comments here, not everyone realizes you can get all your protein needs met on a vegan or vegetarian diet -- CandyCrush is talking about a vegan Protein Powder, after all, not just powdered vegies. I have made the decision to transition off all meat and fish -- the fish is all full of radiation anyway after Fukushima -- and, well, just for me personally, now that India and Russia have declared Dolphins to be non-human persons, I decided I can no longer justify eating animals. But lasting change is, for me, anyway, incremental change so I am not going cold vegie. I decided to start with one pound of vegan Garden of Life protein powder. Right now, I use 100% organic whey, unflavored, which allows me to create any flavor I want. I use only organic ingredients. I add cinnamon, ginger, tumeric to all shakes -- good nutrition. I often do chocolate shakes. Chocolate is actually highly nutritious when you don't add sugar to it. I use organic stevia to sweeten. I use frozen fruit to give shakes creamy texture -- half a frozen banana does wonders. ANd I often use unsweetened coconut milk which yums up anything. Somd prefer almond milk -- I am a cocomilk gal and I actually make my own cause all commercial coconut milk, even the oragnic ones, have a known carcinogen as an ingredient: carrageenan, a harmless-sounding seaweed that has been known to cause cancer for over 30 years but our FDA allows it added to all kinds of food, including organic. I basically don't eat any processed food anymore cause food processors slip in all kinds of stuff to stretch out the real food and expand their profits at the expense of my health. I do buy protein powder, which is processed, but only 100% certified organic. To folks using whey, don't use whey isolate. The process to make isolate basically denudes the whey of its nutrients, making the product cheaper for the manufacturer but you think you are buying healthy only you aren't. Make sure if you do whey it is only organic and WHOLE whey -- no isolate. And no chemical Vitamins added. Get your vitamins on your own, don't pay more for denuded protein powder at GNC just cause they slick package it as a positive feature. Most added vitamins are just bad chemicals for your body.