Tizzielish

superfatty, your last comment is not just comical but reflects some fundamental misunderstandings. I didn't get fat because of overeating. And no one gets fat if they are able to listen to their inner guidance and follow it, not from overeating. Do you read any scientific studies about obesity? Increasingly medical science is proving, through random-access controlled studies, the kind that meet the top industry standards, that obesity is rarely the result of pigging out o food. That is such an outdated attitude. Obesity is increasingly seen as an illness in and of itself. I know some morbidly obese people eat copious volumes of food but not all that many. And why do they? Increasingly SCIENCE is revealing that folks who compulsively overeat do so because of underlying health reasons. Sure some of it is in the head and if that belief works for you, stick with it, honey. But increasingly obesity is being understood as the result of underlying, untreated, unrecognized health issues. I didn't get fat by pigging out on food. I got fat by taking several medications for over ten years that have now been shown to damage the body's metabolism and cause rapid weight gain. AS I watched myself morph from a normal sized thirty-something to a morbidly obese person, I wondered what the heck was I doing? Did I get up in the night and binge eat while sleepwalking? Did I go into psychotic trances and swing by fast food joints? Cause I never pigged out. Have you ever eaten a whole pint of ice cream in one sitting? I have. My first time was when I was in my fifties and my skinny close friend showed me she filld her freezer with pints of fancy ice cream to eat for dinner when her husband traveled. Until that moment, it had never occurred to me to eat more than a modest serving of ice cream. And I was the only adult in the house when I packed on the drug-influenced rapid weight gain so that meant only I bought the food in. I wasn't unconscoiusly binge eating. I packed on weight because the drugs I took damaged my metabolism. Gosh, what unenlightened thinking to believe people only get fat from pigging out. And if you think I am making up my science: three of the drugs I took have had class action law suits against them, and the plaintiffs (the victims) won. They couldn't sue for weight gain because fat is not a protected class in this country (i am a lawyer so if I sound like one, that's why) but they sued because each of these three drugs, in addition to damaging the metabolism and causing weight gain also tended to cause the onset of diabetes. And guess what? I developed diabetes, and not Type II but Type I. Type I's are usually skinny but those cursed drugs made me fat. Not every fat person pigs out. In fact, relatively few do. Cling to that if you must. And yes, it is about our heads as much as our bodies. Which is why I still say to Ms Kee Kee: trust yourself. Anyone that doesn't trust themselves, I feel sorry for them. Maybe some obese people did not always trust themselves but two weeks before bariatric surgery is a good time to start. How are you going to change the head game if you don't trust yourself? I won't give my power over to health care professionals. Sure I want their advice but I don't just see allopathic doctors. If I have the surgery, still an if for me, for I have lost 90 pounds on my own -- altho that could simply be the result of my Type I diabetes and I just think it is all the changes I have made in what I eat. Did you read the post about the gal whose own doctor said if she didn't eat anything she's gain because of her hypothyroidism? Hypothyroidism is real. There are a million stories in the naked city, and in the land of fat people. Don't assume everyone got fat the way you did. And I am not even assuming how you got fat altho you seem to suggest you pigged out. I didn't. I have never eaten immodestly and I have always swum laps at least five times a week for decades as well as other exercise. I got fat because of health conditions. You just watch. In the future, obesity is going to be given respect as a medical condition and not stigmatied as fatties pigging out. You stigmatize yourself that way.

I reiterate my advice to MsKeeKee01: be totally honest with yourself about what you are eating and trust your own instincts. Two weeks and one pound are not going to be the win-or-lose point for your bariatric surgury success. If eating two meals a day for the next two weeks is going to help you achieve your goals, don't let "health care practitioners' (and it is called PRACTICE for a reason) and no two docs or NUTs or any professional in any field has the same opinions and ultimately MsKeeKee is in charge of her destiny. One pound in two weeks is nothing. I didn't tell her to lie. I told her to trust herself. No soccermama, I am not post-op, not for weight loss. I have survived a couple near-death health crises but I have not had to eat all liquids for six weeks and chew everything X number of times and eat pureed food for awhile. It is a fantasy to think there are single right answers to anything having to do with our health, even weight loss surgery. It is great to have faith in the pros you choose but it is even more important to have faith in yourself and MsKeeKee has shown a deep commitment to her self care by quitting smoking. I know a whole lot of folks who just couldn't quit smoking but she did. Cling to your fantasies that doctors are gods. they aren't. Trusting one's self is the most important thing. If folks want to keep pounding on me, go ahead. I will not bend my opinions. A couple of my closest friends are doctors and I have heard too many stories from them to be able to delude myself that doctors are all knowing. they aren't. And one pound, two weeks of two meals or three -- whatev. Such a trifling thing. I am aware that a lot of behavior mod is involved. I have already lost 90 pounds without surgery, I expect to get my approval this week and I might not do it but you better believe I exercised Iron will and learned a whole hevkuva lot about nutrition while losing 90 pounds on my own. Once while talking to my bariatric surgeon she said "Oh my goodness, it sounds like you are losing all this weight on your own." Later I recounted the exchange to my wonderful primary care doc and she said "What does she think? that you have unlimited access to meal planning, nutritionists and even chefs? If you can't trust yourself and do things on your own, you shouldn't be considering surgery. We're all on our own." Trust yourself MsKeeKee.

Butterthebean -- I think your response to what I wrote was a gross overreaction. Did you read the original post in this thread? She said she was eating two meals a day, gaining weight, approved for surgery and her doc had drawn an absurd line saying if she gained one more pound . . . . and you took what I said out of the whole context of my comment. And she was only talking about two weeks. Do you seriously think eating three meals a day for two weeks versus continuing what she was doing for two weeks is going to make any meaningful difference in her post-op recovery and establishment of new habits? Obviously I have no criteria by which to judge this person's actual NUT. Have you met a lot of middle aged nutritionists who have devoted their lives to undertanding the nuances of how nutrition affects the human body, working to understand human metabolism, hormones, hypothyroidism, etc? I haven't. I have only met NUT's, and at some fairly prestigious institutions, who are young, poorly trained and, with a couple exceptions, fat bigots who don't believe patients can gain weight while not eating much food. Also Butterbean, you seem to give MD's a lot more power than they deserve. Has anyone reading this ever been misdiagnosed multiple times as I have? It is called the PRACTICE of medicine for a reason. People undergoing any major surgery have to trust their surgeons but let's dispense with the notion that surgeons are all knowing or that many of them know much at all about nutrition, hormones, thyroid issues. My surgeon performs surgeries five days a week. She does bariatric surgeries on Tuesdays. I don't kid myself that she knows about all aspects of my nutrition, my metabolism. And I do not trust the NUT I was required to see (fortunately only once) to be approved for surgery. Two weeks. One pound. Two meals. Three meals. For two weeks, it doesn't much matter. I don't think I crossed a line but you are entitled to your opinion. I think it is a disservice to encourge people to have blind faith in the health care system -- the system does not deserve it. Lucky for me, my primary care doc knows about my deep skepticism and distrust. My bariatric surgery office thinks I blindly trust all of them. Here is what I trust: my own very deep understanding of nutrition, my own personal biochemist-trained nutritionist independent of my bariatric clinic and my surgeon's skills. All the insurance hoops, advice popped off by mostly young and often poorly educated "nutritionists" is a lot of sound and fury signifying little. I am the one who is going to have to eat right post op, gaining or not gaining a pound before surgery has little to do with anything. I reiterate my earlier position: she needs to be honest with herself about what she is eating. For two weeks, what she does hardly matters. Being honest with herself about what she is eating matters hugely . but it is a common non-professional's fantasy that alll health care 'professionals' are knowledgeable and have state-of-the-art advice to offer. That's fantasy. Surgeons, even bariataric ones, very very rarely know anything about nutrition, metabolism, how weight can fluctuate with no changes in food. It's a common fallacy in this culture to believe weight gain and loss is about calories in, calories out. I liked the person who wrote about how they gained weight because of hypothyroidism. We all want to have the fantasy that our doctors are gods. They aren't. And I didn't tell her to lie to her doctor. I told her not to tell them. The doc was only looking at a number on a scale so give him the number he wants to see without telling him how you got it. Denying someone for surgery for one pound is absurd and I bet the doc was bluffing. I have observed that many folks involved in prep for bariatric surgery freely use manipulative techniques to bully patients. Manipulating people is not going to get them to change life patterns. and Buttertebean, since you appear to have had your surgery a long while ago and I assume it has been a success and you have kept the weight off, I also assume you know that how much a person weighs, how much a person gains and loses, is not always -- and in fact rarely is -- a simple calories in calories out calculation. Obesity is complex. Medical science is showing increasingly that much, if not most, obesity is the result of health issues and not what a person ate. You want to believe in the fantasy that medical professionals are gods, go ahead. But they are not. I told her to trust herself, be honest with herself. for two weeks. over one pound. Any doc who would actually cancel surgery over one pound is no doc I want to see. They were being maniulative, I think. I toild her to trust herself.

another factor for chewables is the saliva as you chew is important to digestion and with less stomach acids after the rny, the saliva becomes more importnat probably and the chewing matters. We'll see if my powder works, eh?!

I urge you to take a good honest look at what you are eating. If two meals is working for you, and you aren't eating large amounts, I'd ignore the NUT. She's not the one at risk. I have said this other places in these forums and gotten slammed but my nurae case manager -- and all the staff at my surgery center has had some kind of bariatric surgery including my nurse case manager (she does the insurance submissions) told me that many nutritionists majored in nutrition because nursing school was hard. Now that is a nurse talking so she's biased. She also said it depends on where they got their degree. I have talked to some absolute ninny NUTs who had good intentions but poor information. All the ones I have met are very young, have never been morbidly obese and the advice they give you comes from books, not seasoned experience. has anyone worked with a NUT in her fifties? All the ones I meet are slim, twenty-something-ish and, well, . .your instincts and your choices are going to get you where you want to be, not the NUT. If twomeals works for you and you are under the gone to stop gaining, do two meals. It's not that much longer. Just don't tell the NUT. or the doc. whether you lose a pound or two more or less pre surgery is not going to matter. And a big congrats on quitting smoking -- that is huge. Except one thing: usually folks who quite smoking gain cause they eat when they have the urge to smoke. You take responsibility for what you put in your mouth, don't give your power to the NUT. If you are sated, not hungry with two meals, do two meals. If you are gaining on three, you are eating too much, cigs or no cigs, NUT approval or no nut approval. Look carefully at what you eat and eat low enough to lose a pound. It's not that hard. Plus me, I stop drinking liquid around six p.m. before I go to surgery related doc visits, I never eat brekkie before my weight in, I bring Water and a Protein shake and drink them after the weigh in. Usually I drink a ton of water at night and in the morning. Not on days I get weighed. Also I schedule early for the apptmt so I can get weighed and drink my brekkie.

I think virtually all bariatric surgeons and the staff that works with you for WLS says calcium citrate is the right way to take calcium. The citrate helps your body absorb and malabsorption is a big issue post-op and for rest of your life with RnY. I think the viactiv chewables have a lot of sugar and calorires, esp. when you need 2 or 3 a day. /and are, in my view, a bit expensive. I am super carb conscsious because I have diabetes, the more carbs I eat, the more insulin I need. On the other hand, yes the pills are big. I was all set to buy a pill crusher and just put the powder i Water and quick drink it down or add it to my Protein shake, stir into hot Cereal or Soup. I don't think you'd taste it. But it seemed expensive to pay for pills and crush them. So I bought, with my surgeon and nurse case manager and NUT's support, big, pretty chip powdered calcium citrate. One limitation of this stuff: it does not come with Vitamine D3, which we also need for the rst of our lives post-op. But I bought a liquid Vitamin D3 on amazon -- I find best prices for all my supps on amazon, or links on amazon. The calcium citrate powder came from a non amazon provider with an add on amazon. I bought two 8 ounce contaienrs of powder, enough for a couple months of high doses in each container for about $4.50 per container. I bought two cause they were cheap and I figure post surgery I'll be glad to just take care of self and not order packages for awhile. I checked about the liquid D3-- it is like in an eye dropper or a tincture bottle. They said this is fine, actually a bit better because the body absorbs the owder faster. The calcium citrate pills with /vitamin D that I've been taking - my surgeon put me on post-op Vitamins immediately so I'd be disciplined by the time I have the op -- for months and they are big and I have come to hate them, hence I was eyeing the pill crushers. We'll see, but my nurse case manager said the powder calcium citrate and liquid D3 was smart and not many do it and she always wonders why cause everyone hates the big pills. But I am pre-op so I don't know what post -op will be. My nurse says the powder is easier and the liquid D3 goes down easy peasey. Initially I'll add the calcium citrate powder to Protein drinks, chicken boullion -- I'm gonna have a couple gallons of organic homemade chicken broth in my fridge and freezer when I go in for surgery. I'll take out all the chicken and freeeze it cooked so when I move to pureed food I can use the chicken for more protein. I am fussy about only organic, altho I could not find organic calcium citrate. Funny story: I just read in an amazone review about some calcium product that a person deciced to dry out egg shells, which are virtually all protein and grind the egg shells with a coffee grinder and eat that for her calcium to save money. I am pretty tightfisted but that is a bit too frugal for me. I do't want to rinse egg shells, dry them, plus I don't eat enough eggs to get all that much calcium plus eggshshells don't have the citrate, do they? It takes all kinds. Mass produced chickens get fed a lot of chemicals to harden their egg shells: I wouldn't trust egg shells as my calcium source. I thought it was a funny story. I'm sticking with calcium powder. It is supposed to be kinda flavorless but it has to be a little chalky texture, right? stir it in hot cereal, how boullion, into a scrambled egg, into a Protein Shake and the owder is not noticeable, I'm betting. we'll see.

this won't be helpful to you but I had restless leg syndrome for decades. /and then it stopped. It's been awhile now so I don't remember when it stopped. But for years and years I had it. I do weigh 90 pounds less now (I weigh about 240 now and my all time high was 330) and the restless leg was when I was much bigger so I hope as you lose, the restless leg issue goes away. It makes sense that as your body becomes more healthy, everything will get better.""I'll hold good thoughts for you on the restless leg. Note, I am pre-surgery. i lost the 90 pounds, and I have been down to 210 as recently as a year ago but my set point seems to be 240, has been for years and I want to get to onederland, so I am doing the surgery. I am 60. I'm not going to suddenly get thin and stay thin or I would have by now. Anyway, since I am pre-surgery my story about my restless leg improving is not surgery related. Just wanted to clarify that. But it does seem tied to a significant weight loss. 90 pounds is significant, right?

My surgeon told me I have a hiatal hernia and she will repair it when she does my RnY. I wish I had asked her what a hiatal hernia is . . and I will at my pre=op appointment. I have not yet been approved for surgery. I will be. I have done all the things. It just takes a few days to get all the paperwork reviewed. Soon I'll see my surgeon and can ask 'what is a hiatal hernia?" I have googled it but I am still not clear. Sounds like your hernia was a little different. I am glad they fixed it and hope you feel better now that the repair has been done. Blessings.

Congratulations. I am about where you were a week ago. I have done all the things I was supposed to do, including losing 10%. Just one hitch: I had to redo the requirement to see a doctor for supervised weight loss three months in a row. I saw my doc on September and she redid the WLS referral and wrote a lot in her notes about my weight challenges. Then I saw doc in Oct specifically to jump thru the insurance hoop -- and I was down ten pounds, so that was cool. And then I saw my doc this Monday. I called my nurse case manager immediately and suddenly she sounded hesitant, asking if the doc had talked to me about exercise. Geez, she had not told me before that me and the doc had to mention exercise. She said she'd had to get a report from my doc, which I know can take a few days, and then review the whole file, have the surgeon review it and get back to me. The worst outcome, at this point, is that I'll have to see my doc again in December or my doc has to write some addendums to her notes stating we discussed exercise. Of course we discuss exercise. She always asks me if I am exercising but she might not have it in her notes. I'll be approved. I might have to do another appointment or two to get the right notes but I have a feeling the nurse was just being cautious so I didn't assume it was a done deal." But you know, from your own experience, sassybird, that the wait is hard. No pun intended, but extra weight is hard, too, eh? LOL. I can't wait to get my date. Once the case manager decides I have done all the insurance requirements, I'll get a surgery date and a pre-op appointment with the doc, altho maybe I have to see the doc for the pre-op before I get the date. I can't wait. and congrats to you, sassybird. Let us know your date when you know it.

It all depends on your individual insurance plan but I think the main point in the pre-surgery medically supervised weight loss is for you to demonstrate that you will show up for appointments, follow medical advice, and make changes as best you can. If you can't show up for the appointments, and make no effort to change, I think insurance companies conclude your sugery not likely to be successful. But you did show up, you lost weight, did what you were asked to do. Focus on that. With fingers crossed. Let us know when you hear. Oopoos, I had not seen there were two pages of comments: you were approved. Congrats!

KCamp, I encourage you to trust your instincts on who to tell and when. I have known people who had the surgery and never have told anyone but their closest friends or lifle partners, they let others think they finally lost weight through diet and exercise. So many people have mostly unconscious and mistaken bias about fat people. They think we can just take it off. Increasingly medical science is deonstrating through controlled random studies that obesity is itself an illness and altho a poor diet can exacerbate being fat, most folks get fat because of damaged metabolisms, not because they ate too much pizza all their lives followed by ice cream. You trust your own inner guidance and tell only who you feel guided to tell. Your inner voice is wise.

kespy74 -- You said your insurance does not require a pre=op diet. It must be nice. I felt much discouraged when told I had to lose 10% of my weight but it wasn't an insurance requirement, it was my surgeon's requirement. Don't be surprised if your surgeon asks you to go on an all liquid Protein diet for two weeks before the surgery. The pre-op diet is partly intended to show insurance companies you can change how you eat but the pre-surgery diet is designed to reduce your liver fat because that improves your surgery and surgery recovery. I actually hope you have to do at least a couple weeks food prep for the surgery, it is for your own good. And, hey, sounds like you have great insurance!! Lucky you.

Does anyone else have doubts? Anyone else get bogged down in second guessing?' I am in the middle of my third run-up to have the surgery. I was scheduled to have a RnY in April 2006 when my insurance changed some criteria and the surgery was postponed. Then I lost about 75 pounds in the remainder of 2006 and forgot all about surgery. I had more weight to lose but I told myself I'd keep going. Then in 2011, I spent the whole year jumping through all the hoops and my surgeon ready to schedule me in Jan 2012 but in 2011 I had lost 60 pounds. Of course, I had regained some, but not all of the 75 I lost in'06. Right now I am down 90 pounds from my all time high of 330. I was 240 at my last doc appointment two weeks ago and I only weigh myself when I see doctors so I don't obsess day-to-day about weight fluctuations. It works for me to only weight at docs, might not work for everyone, I know. So at 240, I am still morbidly obese but, once again, I have started losing weight fast. It is as if a part of me is so afraid of the surgery that some part of my being gets serous about weight loss to avoid the surgery. I can tell by my clothes that I am shedding weight fast. I see a doc tomorrow and will be weighed and I wouldn't be surprised if I am down ten pounds or more since mid-October -- no kidding. So, once again, I am thinking,even tho I know, both from statistics and my own repeat loss-then-regains that once aperson is fat, the odds of keeping it off permanently without surgery are very very low. Not totally impossible but wicked hard and rare. But here I am, once again challening myself to lose as much weight as I can before my surgery, which wont be until late Jan or early Feb at the earliest. Once again, I am thinking "once I had all the insurance requirements, finished, which I will have all done with just two more meetings in the next few weeks, I can always take my time". The 'requirements' are good for one year so I could keep on crashing off weight and postpone the surgery again. Even tho a part of me knows I am playing mind games with myself, and weight games. . . Like I said, anyone else in a yo-yo of doubt? I also think, gee, if I had done the surgery in 2006, maybe 2007 by the time the insurance changes were tended to, I could have been down all these years. And now I am 60. they won't do it on me past a certain age. This is probably my last shot. My arthritic knees creak from the fat but as I crash off weight, the knees feel great! Up. Down. Yes. No. Anyone else? Or am I the only crazy crazy? I feel like my serious, recurring doubts are my instincts or higher power warning me. But is that just fear playing trickster with me? Doubts driving me crazy. I could easily get down to 200 by my surgery date. I was down to 216 when I cancelled my last surgery go-around. But I am deluding myself, right? No one keeps off 150+ pounds permanently without surgery, right? I know a few do keep it off without surgery but I do not have an Iron will. And I believe it takes an iron will for a person who has weighed 330 to get down in onederland and stay there permanently. Still, doubt doubt doubt.

I attended, for the second time (the first time was about 24 months ago, too old for my insurance to give me credit so I had to repeat, which was fine -- you can't know too much about post-op realities). This second class only had three patients, whereas the one in Nov 2011 had about a dozen. That is probably just happenstance. But one gal out of the three -- not me -- got up half way through and said "You know what? I know I can't deal with all this stuff you are telling me is going to happen. I have decided. I can't have the surgery." And she rushed out. It wasn't a support group but I wanted to rush out after her and encourage her to remember that she could change her mind again. She had a challenge I did not ever consider: she said she is illiterate, that she cannot read or write. Her mom - and this woman was in her forties, her mom in her sixties, I think -- was there to be her reader. It would be hard to make all the changes in eating and not be able to read for one's self, wouldn't it? I don't know if that is why she leapt out of her chair and left. ReaRaes: I love reading about your love for your behavior mod. For a couple years now, when I say no to sweets, usually dessert in groups when it is harder for me to not just go along and have dessert when 'everyone else is', I tell myself that I am loving myself healthy, not denying myself. As I turn down dessert, I tell myself "I love myself too much to eat this fill-in-the-blank". It works surprisingly well. I feel good about myself and don't feel deprived. Behavior mod really works!

I don't have a date. My surgeon has said probably in January. I have to jump through a few minor insurance hoops. I had finished all the hoops and she approved me for surgery in jan 2012 but for reasons i don't think fit in this thread so I wont' go into them, I cancelled. Then life happened and I went back to her in Oct. She said she'd do it in Jan if I redid a couple insurance hoops. Minor insurance hoops. Most of my prep tests were still valid but I had to see the psychologist again and I have to see my primary care doc once a month three months in a row. I saw her in Oct, will see her in Nov and in Dec and on Dec 11th, all my insurance hoops covered, she'll schedule the surgery. Altho it is possible her Jan slots will be filled. Fortunately all my other prep was still good. Of course I had seen my doc three months in a row before but it has to be within the past 12 months and it was something like within 14 months so I have to do it again. Not tht big a deal but frustrating. I'm ready.

You said, Candy, that it was hard to find natural whey isolate. Did you read my private messages? I sent you specific names of natural organic whole whey --- admittedly I did not give info on isolates cause I don't use them. Sorry none of my suggestions worked out. Protein 17 is an excellent natural whey, and so is rawwheyprotein -- that is what it is called. but they aren't isolates. There is no one right answer. We all have to figure out what is right for ourselves.

I am unfamliar with Jay Robbs but I only buy organic. Natural flavor, though, will give you unlimited flavor possibilities. You can add it to chicken broth and boost Protein intake. My thoughts on isolate are not popular here and I have shared them but you have been kind and police, Candy. Thanks. I came here to ask you if you know about chia seeds? Chia seeds are high in protein, high in Omega 3 fats which we all need, and chia seeds have ALL the amino acids in a very low cal, good Fiber way. Some of the fiber is soluble, some not. I might post chia seeds as a topic to hear from folks who have already had the surgery. Chia seeds expand when they get wet. This is just fine. A person eating vegan can use a chia seed gel (just add Water to the seeds and let it sit about ten minutes and you get a gel) that can be substituted for eggs in baking. There are many low carb flours in the world -- I make my own coconut milk and then coconut flour, buy almond flour (but I just ordered a Vitamix and soon will be able to make almond milk and then use the leftover almond pulp to also make almond flour!). I dont think anyone immediately after the surgery, before their new stomachs have healed, could ever eat dry chia seeds. You wouldn't want the dry seeds to expand in your new tin tummy. But if you make a gel and eat a tablespoon or two, it is super nutrient. Since you started this thread talking about trying to do things vegan, you definitely want to know how to integrate chia seeds into your diet, if not immediately post op, then when you stomach has healed and you are established on solid foods again. You mentioned a concern about amino acids: chia seeds solves it. Any natural flavor whey, whole or isolate, is very versatile, Candy. I bet you will enjoy the unlimited possibilities of the natural whey you just bought. You can add flavors -- like using Davinci sugar free syrups and vanilla extract, use stevia (the only non-sugar sweetener I use but I might give up stevia . . . I am still researching it). You can put it in any smoothie. If I need protein, I might put in a scoop into a raw green smoothie. I know one can't do raw greens right after surgery -- in fact, an post surgery WLS patients ever eat raw green salads again? I could live without green salads but I love my raw green smoothies. anyway, think about chia seeds: they are low cal, low carb, vegan and provide all the amino acids. and good luck with the natural whey. I'll look at Jay Robb but I have decided that after I eat all the whey protein I have, I am done with whey because it comes from cows and I have made the personal decision to never do cow products ever ever ever again. No more dairy for me. Eventually, I hope to give up my protein powder habit. Oh, I know post op, the high levels of protein are hard to get in witohut protein powder so I aint giving it up soon but I am done with whey. I have decided to follow the TQI Diet, which is antiinflammatory and will benefit several of my chronic health challenges, like arthritis and the TQI diet says no dairy ever. Bye bye whey for me! But several friends are on it and rave about it. And you can eat as much as you want as long as you follow the rules. It was develoepd by a lawyer turned biochemist! ABaskal I think is her name. If you are interested just to learn more about nutrition, google TQI diet. But her website is carefully designed so you don't get much info without paying. I am writing too much -- I tend to ramble, as you have seen before. Good luck with Jay Robb natural flavor whey isolate. I never looked for natural whey isolate so none of my suggestions included it. it's so hard to know what to do, isn't it? On any subject, or any food, there are so many different opinions and by experts. I have an endocrinologist, a primary care doc, a hematologist and a homeopath. they all advise completely different approaches to nutrition. Same with NUT's -- you could line up ten and get ten different opinoins. IN the end, we have to trust our own inner guidance on the right choice.

deaddemmama . . . your son's girlfriend, in spite of her PhD and MS, is just one opinion. I see a world renown endocrinologist and he conducts nutrition research on diabetics yet when I asked him for nutrition advice, he said very little is actually known about food and its relatinship to health and he could not help me with nutrition. He also gave me advice that did not help me manage my diabetes - his advice made me suffer needlessly. When I was at my bariatric clinic recently, I talked to the nurse about how every doctor I talk to gives me completely different advice, she said "it is called the practice of medicine for a reason, with an emphasis on practice". You could line up ten NUT's and each one could easily have entirely different advice about nutrition for any health challenge. Your PhD son's NUT girlfriend has her opinions. Dr. Mercola is adamantly against whey isolate, as are many other MD's but he is 'famous'. My views on whey isolate have been support by many NUT's. Your son's girlfriend is certainly entitled to her opinion but I think it is critical that anyone undergoing the major choice of bariatric surgery get it into their heads: no one really knows for sure that what they tell you is right. People have to take charge of their own health and lives and trust their intuition and trust their bodies and do their own research. A Phd in nutrition reflects the approch at her school -- not the full spectrum of nutrition knowledge. You and your son's girlfriend are entitled to your opinions on whey isolate. Many, many health care professionals, including MD's, homeopaths and chiropractors that I personally kow are opposed to whey isolate. There is no one right answer. The process if creating whey isolate was originally designed for body builders, not weight loss surgery patients. It is done to maximize growing muscle, not weight loss. The process to create whey isolate denuse the whey of vital, healthy fats that the body needs, esp. after surgery. The whey isolate might be easier to digest in the early weeks post bariatric surgery but as a long term choice, whey isolate is not considered superior by many professional health care people.

Looks like Jan for me, too, unless I get super lucky. I don't know what my doc does around the holidays. I will have all my insurance hoops jumped through on Dec 13. She already approved me for surgery but I am sure she'll have to see me again before she gives me an appointment for surgery -- so it looks like Jan -- she said Jan when I saw her in September. Heck, her spots in Jan might be filled by Dec 13 and they won't give me an appointment with her until they confirm that I went to that Dec 13th final primary care doc visit (3 months in a row). I'm ready. Altho reading about complication nightmares has me anxious.

How many lawyers have you talked to? Laws vary from state to state, of course, but in general, the statute of limitations doesn't actually start running until the patient became aware of the negligence. Sounds to me like your husband (and you have suffered so you should also be a petitioner for compensation for your suffering) should be able to find a lawyer. You need one that specializes in medical malpractice, obviously, a very very very good one. Call some prestigious firms and ask for a consultation with their medical malpractice lawyers. A very good lawyer can at least try to work around the statute of limits, such as pointing out the original butchers deliberately prevented your husband from understanding the depth of his problems until they thought the statute of limitations had run -- doing that is itself negligent. Those docs have professional duty to tell patients what they need to know and if they held back info to run out the clock . .also, in any legal matter, the rule of equity applies. That means that if statutes prevent filing a lawsuit but an injustice would occur if the judge did not say 'equity', or fairness, requires that we determine that stat of limits did not start ticking until your husband consulted with -- with whichever surgeon finally told him how serious his issues were. Thanks for alerting others. I am all convinced, after backing out two times in the past, to do the surgery but reading about your nightmare has me rethinking. Thanks.

Big Bear Donna -- you are getting close to onederland. I can't wait to see you dip below 200!!! whoo hoo.

If you ask your NUT, let us know what the NUT says about tomatoes. Tomatoes are highly acidic and I have never tolerated tomato foods (soup, Pasta sauce) very well. I wonder if I will be able to tolerate them post op?! Right now the thought of a creamy tomato Soup, made with coconut milk instead of milk, sounds good.

Just want to acknowledge: the stuff I buy is not cheap. For several years, after rent and utilities, healthy, high quality unprocessed organic food is my budget priority.

unjury, Isopure have chemicals in them. I am done adding chemicals to my body and I only use raw whey. I have never tried any of the flavors pear425 mentions because they are not organic. Judyr, you asked 'where do you get natural whey?" If you mean natural flavor, most Whole Foods would have it. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, there are local, awesome grocery stores that carry natural flavor whey Protein -- even some sell it in bulk. Lately, the wholesaler -- and I have talked directly to the wholesaler -- can't buy any. It's like the secret of raw organic whey got out and someone bought out the market. This wholesaler supplies dairy products to much of the western half of USA so they are big and they told me they can't find it anywhere -- so the store that sold it in bulk can't sell it anymore. I have been to many weight loss surgery support groups. I know many don't have my strong interest in organic and unprocessed foods -- by unprocessed, I mostly mean I eat a ton of fresh, local, organic greens. I do live in an area where fresh local organic greens are available year round at my farmers market. I know that post-op, it will be a long time, if ever, that I can do a raw kale smoothie but I can cook kale and puree it. Come to think of it, I am going to a required nutrition class at my bariatric surgery center in a week or so -- I will try to remember, for myself, to ask if I can eat pureed raw greens during the puree phase of post-op. One benefit of natural flavor whey: you can put it in everything and make any flavor you want if you want flavor. I buy my raw organic unflavorted whole whey (I so not use isolates, which denudes some nutrients but I know Unjury, a big advertiser on this site, sells isolate. The human body needs the stuff denuded from the whey to make an isolate. Whey isolate is really for body builders, not weight loss surgery but others on this site disagree with my focus on whole whey. And not everyone is committed to organic, as I am. I have bought raw 100% USDA protein online from Amazon andfrom a company called Protein 17. Now that I have tried raworganicwhey.com, that is all I want to use. Try different products and see if you notice the chemical taste in some of them. One of my first buys of whey was Isopure -- I thought whey isolate was good and the word 'pure' was good marketing. It pulled me in but I actually disliked Isopure and had a hard time using it up, but I did, cause it is not cheap. The stuff I buy, raw organic whole whey protein, is not cheap and seems to be rising in price. Now that I am tightly focussed on being healthy, I'll skip lots of things before I still give up unprocessed, organic food. True, whey protein is processed but if you get it raw, they use a process that makes it eligible to be called raw. Why does being raw matter? I am not a raw foodie but I do eat more and more raw foods because raw foods don't have the nutrition cooked or processed out of them. Even pasteurizing denudes food. Look at the ingredient lists of all the whey isolates. Why are all those chemicals in there? And learn about the sugar substitutes they use. They might not trigger dumping but they might be bad for you anyway.

Tcisme -- you said you liked the soy Protein powder because it has no taste. There are natural, no-taste whey Proteins, too and you can use them as you describe using the soy. For me, the whey is the easiest to digest. I am pre-op but I've done at least one Protein shake a day for years. And I am down from 330 to 240 but several times now, each time I go below 240 -- overs several years, like 8 years, I bounce back up. My insulin needs work against going lower so I'm definitely doing the surgery asap -- a couple more insurance hoops to jump thru, last hoop on Nov 7th and then my surgeon will schedule. anyway, try natural flavor whey protein. I use raw. It's still processed but at very low temperatures which retains some of the nutrition lost when more heat and more process. You can make any flavor shake you can imagine with natural flavor protein, too, but shakes are bulky. 8 ounces of Water, Protein Powder, maybe some frozen fruit, stevia, or raw chocolate powder -- this is what I do now but it ends up about 10 ounces of food and I don't think I wil be able to get it in post-op. Don't know what i'll do: teeny tiny Protein Shakes?