Carlene

Sue... They are, in their eyes, preventing the murder of an innocent every time they talk a woman out of having an abortion. That's pretty powerful stuff. I think we are all in agreement that abortion prevents the birth of a living child (generally speaking). In that sense, ALL abortions are birth control. I think we all agree that in a perfect world, abortion would be unnecessary. Nobody has an abortion for the fun of it, or because it's something she has never experienced before. Someone compared abortion to "mercy killings" a few pages back. Some people might be surprised to learn that those actually happen quite often. Are they wrong? I don't know. My father had a particularly agonizing form of Cancer and many times he begged us to bring him a loaded gun. We didn't, of course. But if I had been in charge of his meds, I might have given him free access to them. I don't like the idea of removing feeding tubes or hydration lines (a la Terry Schivo). To me, starving a person to death by withholding nourishment and/or water is not merciful. Same thing with oxygen. If a person is struggling to breathe, give them some air. A peaceful, painless death is a great blessing. One of the things about abortion that bothers me is the violence. How many on this board would take even a very rudimentary life form - a frog, for example, and tear off its legs? Or jab a pair of scissors into the base of its skull? Not many....but that's how they perform abortions.

I can understand why that would be a struggle. It almost sounds like you're saying "a pregnant woman should be allowed to kill her unborn child, but she should not harm it by smoking and/or drinking".

I'm thinking of running for public office.

You mean so they don't make complete asses of themselves? Too late...

In some instances, doctors certainly CAN force a patient to have surgery... Sept 27, 2000 Conjoined one-month-old twins are at the center of an ethical and moral debate in Britain after a judge ordered the twins to be separated so that one might live, even though the parents object to the procedure. A court of appeal on September 22 upheld the ruling, though the case may still be appealed to the House of Lords and even to the European High Court of Human Rights. The two girls, born August 8, are joined at the rump, and doctors say both will die within a year if they are not separated.

Obviously not. My youngest child is 33 years old.

So you would do what.....kill yourself?

The Hensel twins? They have terrific quality of life! They attend public school, they drive, they have tons of friends. They have great parents, as well as siblings, who all treat them as normal teens. They are normal mentally and require no special equipment, such as wheelchairs, crutches, etc.

We do, indeed...although I'm not sure that's always such a good thing. We value perfect, youthful, intelligent life over the less perfect, elderly, and/or diminished capacity lives. Is it less offensive to abort a sick or ill-formed person than a perfect one? Is it less offensive to abort a very early pregnancy, as oppossed to one that has almost reached term? And what of the aborted babies with a heartbeat? One very experienced abortion doctor places the number at somewhere between 10% and 20%. Are those "living" babies, or not? Abortion is a very complex issue. Much more so than it would seem on the surface.

The pill prevents ovulation. It is not, therefore, contraception via early abortion. An IUD prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. It can be technically described as a very early abortion. Fertilization (conception) takes place in the Fallopian tube, not in the uterus. The fertilized ovum then travels to the uterus and attached itself to the wall thereof. When the embryo does not leave the Fallopian tube, the pregnancy continues to grow and a very serious, even life-threatening, condition for the mother quickly develops - something commonly known as a "tubal pregnancy".

You're joking, right?

I smoked throughout all my pregnancies. My children weighed between 8 and 9 pounds at birth. None of them have any "long term damage" as a result of my smoking. To sanction abortion because the mother smoked is just crazy. There is no law in place to "save" crack babies by requiring that they be aborted. Do you think there should be?

That is simply not true. If it were, the human race would have perished long ago. Children are born every day in Africa, India, etc to AIDS infected, malnourished mothers who have received no prenatal care whatsoever. I watched a documentary last night about a pair of co-joined twins. They actually look like a girl with two heads, as they have two arms, two legs, one body - but two heads. Internally, they have separate hearts and stomachs but share a colon and reproductive organs. They are 16 years old and absolutely AMAZING. My point is that "handicapped" is a subjective term. Sometimes it's the people on the outside looking in who are handicapped.

Are you sure you don't have Andrea Yates confused with Susan Smith, the woman who drowned her two little boys because her boyfriend didn't want an "instant family"? I have never heard one scandalous word about Andrea Yates' behavior pre-tragedy. By all accounts, she was a totally submissive wife who totally devoted herself to raising her children, pleasing her husband, and worshiping God as part of an ultra-conservative religious group. Andrea Yates was overcome with genuine fear for the souls of her children and truly believed that if they were allowed to live - to grow up and become "worldly" - they would eventually burn in hell. She thought she was saving their immortal souls by killing them. It makes no sense to assume that she did it "for a man". There was no plot to kill off the kids and live happily eve rafter with a new love because she made no attempt to hide her crime.

Someone started "something political" because they passionately disagree with your assessment of George Bush. It's allowed. Really, it is. Lap-Band Talk Rants and Raves Gripe, complain, moan, fight, rant and rave. Enter at your own risk! The above was cut and pasted from the Forums list. Just so we are clear on this.... THIS IS THE RANTS AND RAVES FORUM. Discussion is allowed here on ANY topic whatsoever. That means politics, religion, social justice, welfare, race, sex (gay or straight), matrimony, morality, quantum physics, or any other damn thing we can think of. We are NOT being rude, insensitive, or offensive by posting about these things. This Forum was made for this purpose. If you do not wish to participate in the discussion, DO NOT CLICK ON THE THREAD. But don't criticize us for talking about something besides WLS. Thank you....and have a nice day.

I was paying half the price for gasoline that I am now. The country was not at war. The federal budget actually contained a SURPLUS. Let's see......yep, it's fine with me if the president spends his lunch hour getting laid. After all, he wouldn't be the only one in Washington doing it. AND at least Monica wasn't underage. I lost 2 firemen due to the lack of CLINTON'S WORK IN THE WHITE HOUSE OR IS IT not the lack of work. You'll have to explain that one to me. There is way too little information to make any sense out of that statement whatsoever.

Again, THIS IS THE RANTS AND RAVES FORUM, where NON-LAP BAND TOPICS ARE WELCOME. The name of this thread happens to be "George Bush: Worst American President Ever". It is inappropriate to scold members for posting on-topic messages, ie: anything to do with George Bush or his presidency.

And you credit George Bush and/or the Republican Party for this? By that logic, everyone's income should have doubled and mine hasn't.

This is the Rants and Raves forum, and the name of the thread is "George Bush: Worst American president ever". The Rants and Raves section is for other-than-Lap Band discussion.

Andrea Yates did not kill her children because she did not want to be burdened with them. She was mentally deranged - not merely "depressed". She truly believed that she was saving her children from the fires of hell by killing them while they were young and innocent. I think Andrea had had so much ultra-conservative religious babble hard-wired into her brain over the years - the world is evil and we're all sinners and the devil awaits - that she just lost touch with any sense of reality. For a number of years, she and her family lived in an RV (not even a mobile home - a recreational vehicle) AND she home-schooled her kids. The poor woman had no life whatsoever, no time to herself, and she suffered from severe Post-partum Depression. Her doctors warned her husband before the last child was born that she could not handle another one. I still say he deserved to be charged too.

Yes, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. However, facts are facts....and Iraq had ZERO to do with 9/11. That's a fact. Most of the terrorists responsible for 9/11 were Saudi nationals. But we invaded Iraq. Close, but not the same country. And, if I may point this out, when Bill Clinton authorized US troops to bomb Iraq, the Republicans came unglued! He was accused of "wagging the dog". He was deemed a "madman" who was "leading us into war". Now the Republicans are calling him a coward for not doing more. Amazing!

Our national debt, as of 12/17/2006 The estimated population of the United States is 300,489,941 so each citizen's share of this debt is $28,803.07. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.87 billion per day since September 29, 2006! Now let's compare... May 1, 2000 Web posted at: 5:13 p.m. EDT (2113 GMT) WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Bill Clinton said Monday that the United States would pay off $216 billion in debt this year, bringing to $355 billion the amount of the nation's debt paid down in the three years since the government balanced the budget and began running surpluses. In a written statement, Clinton said the $216 billion payment represented the largest debt paydown in American history, and he said that the federal government's long-term debt is now $2.4 trillion lower than projected to be when he first took office. However, the U.S. government still has a long way to go before it pays down the entire national debt, which now stands at $5.7 trillion. And the winner is..... NOT George Bush!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was a nice, long, flag-waving speech, Sherri but what does it have to do with George Bush? He didn't write the constitution, nor does he get credit for air conditioning, the US highway system, or the stock on hand at the local Kroger store. You're right...Americans should be thankful for the lifestyle we lead, but we owe no thanks to George Bush for any of it - except maybe the budget crisis we will be dealing with long after he has gone. So send Mr. Bush all the bouquets you want, but leave my name off the card. I owe that man NOTHING.

I think Andrea Yates is a seriously disturbed woman. I blame her husband for the tragedy, as much as her. And since he got off scott free, why should she spend the rest of her life in prison while he remarries and has more kids?

Sexual misbehavior in the presidential office goes all the way back to Thomas Jefferson - at the very least. Not to mention members of congress and other high-ranking officials. To name a few... Grover Cleveland Warren Harding Eisenhower FDR JFK J Edgar Hoover Strom Thurmond Dan Burton ®, Congressman (Burton, who once called Clinton a “scumbag”, admitted during the 1998 proceedings against Clinton that he had an extramarital affair and fathered a child out of wedlock when he was a state senator in the 1980s. Burton said on PBS, “This is something that happened a long time ago.....The boy and the mother and my wife and my family and I have all reached an agreement about this a long time ago.” Newt Gingrich Nelson Rockefeller Henry Hyde ® (Hyde, who chaired the committee responsible for investigating the Clinton/Lewinsky affair, had an affair of his own for about five years with the married Cherie Snodgrass. Hyde, who was in his 40s and a married Illinois state representative with four kids when he had the affair, didn’t deny the relationship. But he said, “The statute of limitations has long since passed on my youthful indiscretions.”