Jack

GipsyGirl: sorry my post was truncated the other day, I had a power failure at the wrong point. The Bandster Lifestyle is like walking a path that goes through different unexpected areas in the forest, with hard climbs at times and unexpected glimpses out over paradise! By just taking one step at a time we will progress toward our goal. Frustration is part of the exhilaration!. Learning what the crucial and sometimes minor choices are, that make every day better than the one before it. Can you identify at what point in eating a meal you become 'NOT' hungry? If so, that is a glorious victory! My observation, is that Normos eat when hungry, then stop. I never learned how to do that until postOp. Now I can do it automatically about 75% of the time. The crucial secret for me, was learning to recognize 'satiety' instead of focusing on 'not full'.

We can not pretend that food will satisfy what is non-physical hunger. We can not pretend that notions of 'full' or 'restriction' is adequate to address whether we can rationally train ourselves in perceiving why and when and what and how much we eat.

great tips....I've used them all and they WORK for ME !!!

great discovery! A _LOT_ of my own overeating was "sport eating' not justified by any real physiological hunger....boredom, anger, anxiety, etc.....and of course, food does NOT satisfy those kinds of feelings. I learned that 'getting busy' doing something --like cleaning out my wardrobe, boxing up my old fat clothes to send back to Omar the Tent Maker, etc, going for a walk or any number of easy physical activities along with a glass of water, put me back on the path to losing some of those old stored cheeseburgers around my hips. Action and activity solves a lot of those vague notions that chips will solve whatever emotion is lurking there.

postBand, it was an entirely new and welcomed feeling, to not wake up with the first thoughts of 'What's to eat?' Or in the middle of eating, planning on what to eat next. Of stopping for a bag-o-burgers on the way to dinner. It was madness befitting a Stephen King novel. postBand, the absence of "The Craving" was entirely a new and most welcomed state. "Satiety" is a far better sensation to me than 'full'.....full doesn't last long, 'satiety' goes on for hours.

re: " And so is this a sensation you never felt before the band?" Yes, preBand I _NEVER_ had the sensation of "satiety"....it was a word I had to look up in the dictionary. It was an intellectual term, not one I had experienced. For me, the sudden realization I had spent my life eating in pursuit of becoming "full".....which I eventually could, but it never lasted, which then over the years became a sort of marathon/search for the (un)holy grail...that "full" meant "not hungry"....which I ALWAYS was...'hungry' in an very abnormal way. I learned to eat to avoid becoming the dreaded 'unfull' / 'unhungry'. So for me at least, the discovery that there is a different reason with entirely different triggering mechanisms, to eat. And that is "hunger". My "hunger" was never satisfied by eating. I think that qualifies as some kind of psychoemotional abnormality.

re: "After several bites of chicken and several more of vegetables and a bite or two of brown rice, my ravenous appetite just clicked off. I was suddenly and completely full, and satisfied with what I'd eaten. " Dave: great illustration!!!! That happens to me also on many occasions. I disagree with calling the sensation 'being FULL' though. I have rigorously worked to study what "full" is to me....and the sensation of "full" is not the same as "satiated". In my days of wearing size 56/58 pants I was concerned about 'full'. In my postOp life at size 42/44, I prefer to label it "satiated". In any case, we are talking about the very same behavior, which is to not OVER eat despite our intention, opportunity and motives. Hooray for the Band!!!

Have you noticed any changes in the sensation of actually being hungry vs 'being restricted'?

Great observations....what you must consider also is the fact we DO change and our entire food/self relationship changes. I was as much a worrier about this entire "now what" if 'eating' were taken away.....what in fact happened, was (mostly) OVER eating was altered and the introduction of being concerned about other aspects of living, become more important. Without realizing it, I was moved from the 'living to eat' dysfunctional philosophy, to a most welcomed 'eating to live' behavior. Big difference. Along with changes in my eating behavior, I lost the ever increasing decade-long panic/anxiety attack cluster of symptoms. In fact, I was totally unprepared for the *concept* that 'becoming hungry' could be a pleasant experience in itself. The trouble with 'always eating' is we are never aware of the gentle pleasures of ENJOYMENT of the act of becoming satiated. It is a different experience than merely stuffing myself with my eating shovel as rapidly as possible while trying to anticipate what my next meal might be. cheers in your journey

Great post and great news Acadia. Good heads up response. Cheers on your journey

re: the challenge of Bandster life style There's a lot of comments about 'restriction' that seems to me to miss an essential point. The entire notion of 'feeling full' is in error in my formative years, as that is what led me to think 'eat till full' and 'being full' were the defining reasons of 'why' we eat. I have become enthralled with the notion that 'satiety' and 'hunger' and 'appetite' and 'restriction' must be revised in how we relate to 'eating' and 'OVER eating'. Normos eat when hungry and stop when they are (key point) NOT hungry. I always ate whether hungry or not, and ate till it was all gone then went looking for more. Hunger had nothing to do with eating. I've had more success with eating to become satiated, then stopping. Restriction was a tool along the way to help me recognize the difference. Necessary phase for sure. Hunger isn't what motivated my own over eating....it was more the FEAR of being hungry. Does this make any sense to the 'restriction'~'non restriction' issue?

My pain was minimal, recovery was swift and I was back to mostly normal stuff within 5 days. I don't have PCOS though. My anxiety postOp maximized around day 3 but I recovered rapidly when other Bandsters here pointed out each day gets better and better. Now 6+ years postOp, my very worst day has been far better than my best day of the 10 years preOp. In the end, it is our own fears and anxieties that limit stepping out into the brave new world that is at our feet every day. In my preOp days of Morbid Obesity, I was unable to see beyond my own phobias, and they imprisoned me far too long. Cheers in your journey.

I was in the same boat regarding Protein drinks. I tried a lot of them, hated nearly all of them. Ended with the 'unflavored' powder and developed quite an intimate relationship with my spice rack. Amazing what a little nutmeg, cinnamon, etc can do to make a cheery day. smoothies can have an astonishing variety of ingredients. And our tastes change as well over time. One I came to tolerate well, was the unflavored protein powder, a tiny spoon of Adams crunchy PB, 1/4 banana or berries (I garden and have fresh as well as frozen), a splash of skim milk, varying amounts of NF yogurt-plain of course- and at times a squirt of Stevia along with a wide range of spices sprinkled on top of a blenderized treat. That got me thru a LOT of weeks. You can find a basic simple recipe that you like, or can tolerate at least. The HUGE range of differences between a few blueberries vs a few raspberries in what is otherwise the same recipe, is astounding. So too is a tiny bit of those spices we've all ignored for so long.....I've got about 2 dozen different spices that all work well depending on the taste I'm after. Experiment....delight is just around the corner of Frustration and Can't Stand It Avenue......

Sorry I don't twit....I'm an electronic Luddite and intend to remain such.

We have to establish one fact: either our Brain is now in charge postOp, or old habits and the demands of the Belly Beasts remain in control. You have done well in identifying the problem. Now take the next step: action. Even for slouches such as myself, pain and anxiety managed to help me move to changing my life-long compulsion to gulp as rapidly as my eating shovel would allow. That has to change. Period. You are in charge of making that change. I'll tell you a secret: Yes you can!

I was on insulin injections twice daily and had become 'insulin resistant'. I also had ballooned up to 373 #. Through madness and desperation I eased down almost 20#. Went to the Band clinic, consulted, went on pre op diet, lost another 20 #. 8 months after Band surgery, I was completely off insulin. Started Metformin. A1c dropped to below 7 for the first time in years. Other blood values normalized. Metformin doesn't do anything to decrease weight for me....but it does moderate my blood sugar without insulin injections...which after all is a hormone that produces weight gain among other things. By the way, after 10 years on CPAP, I tossed that out 7 months postOp as well. I continue to live the Happy Bandster lifestyle....and I'm still "35# from goal". cheers on your journey

IMHO, it is more a matter of 'how much' you can eat vs 'what' you can eat. There are a few things which episodically are more troublesome to me, but almost always these result from some error of eating....such as too much, too fast. Not chewing ~an old habit from preOp 'gulping food down' days, at times is an issue. In reality for me, that "only 3 bites" most often really means, "you are NOT hungry, why are you eating?" If I get 'too hungry' I tend to eat too fast which produces what you describe. If this pattern changes daily for you, I'm not sure you are 'too tight'. A great feature of the Band, is we can back up, go to a different food intake for a few days, and regroup. This takes a certain agility to determine what IS the problem and what to do about it. If you are not too tight at night with no regurgitation or bile taste in your throat, that's one indicator 'too tight' may not be the issue. I'm in early year 7 postOp and still learning. Cheers in your journey. I used to have "first bite syndrome" in which it seemed I was about to 'be stuck' and have too much fill. I learned that by taking a small nibble really, and putting down my food for a few minutes, that sensation would pass soon. I believe I had an involuntary or unconscious tightening up of my entire esophagus, or at least the pouch end. Part of this I traced to my old habit of gulping and washing every bite down with Fluid. As I learned how to phase that habit out of my behavior, I got less and less of such incidents. Try the 'very small nibble' and wait a few minutes....until your pouch tells you it's ready for another nibble. And don't be alarmed if you really find you AREN'T hungry as much as you though. 2 or 3 bites can be quite satisfying during a particular phase of adapting to a new kind of eating behavior.

In my Morbidly Obese era, I was never cold. Post Band, I have been cold enough to develop a wardrobe including a variety of warm under togs, and have discovered the true value of another item; "vest".... Gloves are far more useful than they used to be as well.

I've never seen it be a problem. As a retired DC I have been exposed to a wide variety of therapy both as provider and as patient. I have never read on LBT of any forum member reporting a Band issue resulting from such.

...thanks for the Victory Movie ---[dancing a little Gypsy Dance here]..... CONGRATULATIONS!!!

re: "then went on holiday + oesophigits and had an unfill which resulted in my gaining 11kgs back so now I'm just 20-21 kgs down from my pre-band weight which is soooooo depressing." this illustrates why we have to be constantly vigilant and understand the crucial difference between 'hungry-NOT hungry' and 'eating-OVER=eating'. I've been at the same plateau for over 3 years. STILL "35#" from goal!!!

nomebug: Good idea to go see your physician for an in-person exam. It would clear up a lot of unknown concerns. The LBT forum has no way to answer with the limited information you have posted.

a 'bad day' is but one little tiny bump on the endless rocky shores of the other events we must find ways to overcome...the Belly Beast of 'hunger' will attempt to raise its ugly head from time to time. Remain on your path and all will go well. Most of my own fears about "hunger" really were more inflated by 'the FEAR of becoming MORE hungry'....for myself coming to understand hunger/not hunger, satiety, fullne/not full pleasantly took the place of those little demons. You will do fine as long as you behave as you know you should. Don't let fears consume you. The Old Habit of 'overeating' has to be conquered by a rational mind.

I seem to have found my own "sweet spot" in that I manage to continue to eat carefully while not being on an identifiable "diet". Now 6+ years postOp, I remain frustratingly "30#" from goal. On a positive note, I also remain OFF insulin injections after 15 years twice daily and OFF CPAP after 10 years. LBT gives me ample evidence rejoicing in my blessings while striving to continue my journey requires more focus and discipline. Re: "diet" preOp I had been on every version both rational and nonsensical ever devised. Somehow they always ended with realization I had actually gained back whatever I lost AND then some. I don't have an answer other than to continue those behaviors that have proved effective in producing the results I wanted, long enough to do such. cheers for all of us in the ongoing struggle

Jachut: You are an inspiration to all of us. I appreciate your advice and attitude. I had wondered where your posts had gone, missed them. Cheers and strength to you. If there is any kind of support from US I can offer do not hesitate to PM me.