Jack

I for one have had way more success using the models of 'behavioral modification' of my 'Sport Eating' habit AKA overeating/eating till full/etc, than the wide variety of other approaches over the decades. From 60s era meds & later counseling/hypnosis/more meds, always weighed more each year than the year before. Graduated high school 1963 at 269. Topped at 373 before ever hearing of WLS. Last week I was within 10# of that, thanks to Lap Band & the various efforts via tips/comments/discussion/education here. I'm certain there's a component of 'eating disorders' if not an entire hotel with multiple rooms & hallways as I've stumbled down many varieties attributable to such. I also am convinced some substances, such as high fructose corn syrup, creates some kind of mental/emotional debility that triggers a massive binge of overeating, like hives or an asthma attack for someone with that kind of issue. In the end, whatever I may label my eating situation, I find WHEN 'eating behavior' is controlled by rational process, I have success and move toward my goal.

always search for updates, guess the Old Bandsters have gone on to some other project!

absolute must for me, is a dose of the Holy Shredded Wheat w/Bran. Add a handful of frozen blueberries, maybe a bit of Peanut Butter, a little stevia & a 1/2 cup of skim milk or hot Water.

I'm impressed with the title of your missive, and salute your thoughtfulness to post the travails in such stark language. Thanks for the lesson, and best of luck in avoiding such misery in the future. Merry Christmas!

"What has experiencing morbid obesity in life taught you?" the odd paradox of 1) usually being the the largest person in the room; 2) somehow being invisible to so many retail store clerks who adopt an odd 'can't see you' stance that resembles mesmerized meer cats trying to avoid the lock-on phase of the swooping raptor on it's lunch run.

A couple things that helped me at that point, were 1) drink water; 2) start sorting thru old fat clothes to be ready to box 'em up & decide how to dispose of 'em. In a few weeks the amazing transformation of moving downward in sizes will occupy more attention than the little cravings you mention. Another issue I finally discovered: 'being hungry' doesn't mean you gotta OVER eat. That was a new one for me to consider. If you carefully monitor your food intake, there is a point just a bite or 2 actually and surprisingly, satisfies that 'hunger'. Beyond that 'satiety' point we are indulging in mindless sport eating.

re: "I feel I might need that extra something to get down to my goal weight." we all have ideas of what 'something extra' SHOULD accomplish.....yet I wonder in what manner is measured either what is accomplished or what it takes to do such. And the reality of just what that matters, if our goal is not attained in a given time frame, depends on the drive/desires of the individual. What exactly motivates us to desire that extra 10% weight loss, when "90#" was quite remarkable in itself. About 20 years ago my MD was convinced my T level 'needed to be raised'. So I took a few shots and a few of his Rx pills. My blood measurements of T level increased over the weeks, as did a whole slew of symptoms I didn't like: jitteryness, irritability, decreased ability to concentrate, cranky behavior, etc etc. My T level climbed to where it was "80% of normal" for my age. Each new injection was followed by ever more undesirable. Finally chest pains and increased blood pressure, loss of sleep etc etc, directly linked to testosterone 'therapy' to 'get me up to the Normal' level. I could see no advantage to getting another 10% closer to 'his goal'. We terminated that plan and over the weeks my charming and witty disposition returned. Chest pains remained for years.

re: "appetite suppressants simply do not work as a long term weight loss solution. We KNOW this or we wouldn't have needed surgery." My own personal Battle with Obesity began circa 1964 with the little miracle pills then common for appetite suppressant. I'm not posting to batter anyone/anything, just report my own journey. After a couple years of ever-increasing doses of (yes, it was amphetamines) I began to imagine it was not abnormal to be up at 3am. It was helpful for other reasons as well, because I was taking 21 semester hours at college and working 3 part time jobs..... So the last time I saw my physician, he gave me 'the strongest formulation' they had.....dark dark purple/dark dark amber capsule. And no, I wasn't hungry. At first. Then I saw a new report, my doc had been arrested for running some kind of illegal mill, whatever that was.....(ok call me naive).... In any case, pill routine I got for a couple years ages 16-19, were absolutely of no long term benefit, and probably complicated/delayed better treatment for a problem essentially of behavioral adaptation to various stresses then unidentified. Personally I was aghast last year when a physician gave me a list of 3 current appetite meds as part of one of his weight management plans. The potential side effects left me with the determination to continue the struggle without them. But 'your means may vary' and our job is to seek the best solution to our individual problem. Good luck.

"I am even more convinced that a large portion go away because they are struggling." This is probably true! However, I can not escape the notion that "Life ITSELF is a struggle". We of the Tribe of the Morbidly Obese, have to find a path through our personal wilderness, to reach whatever glimpse of the Life as Normo Weight we can manage. Depending on how we look at our own progress, we can motivate or justify a wide range of eating behavior. And yes it becomes frustrating at times. After a year long struggle I've managed to drop 17# of what had crept back on somehow. And I'm 20# above what I weight at my best postOp weight. The other side of the coin can not be ignored.....I'm within 10# of what I weighed 50+ years ago at high school graduation! Still.....my drive to reach "size 40" pants has failed, as 46 fits pretty good. Day of Banding I wore size 56-58. So the Dance continues....who would have thought 12 years postOp I'd still be in a daily Battle with the Dragons of Overeating!!!!

I just noticed leaving out the most important comment on what I discovered for 'satiety' and 'fullness'..... the word is ANXIETY.... yes, the dragon of anxiety that I somehow MIGHT become 'hungry' if I didn't "get full enough". What you are experiencing, I believe, is that marvelous space where the actual comfort of "satiety" has not become a habit but a goal....and since the 'goal' by default, for me at least...for YEARS....remained 'fullness'. If we eat like normos, and exercise like normos, and STOP over eating (like normos) then we won't have the issue. The dragon of anxiety "I won't get ENOUGH" makes my own elbow bend way too often even still. Cheers, Good luck.

"I am still not feeling satiety for long enough like before and it takes more food to feel full than before. But the closer I get to my old number, the more scared I get I will have problems again and have to have Fluid taken out. And despite the fact I am exercising daily, the scale still isn't moving! Anyone else have a similar experience?" yes for me the relationship between my theoretical dedication to 'satiety' and my age-old affliction with the notion 'fullness' should determine how/what/when/what I shovel down, is a crucial balance The focus on 'scale' isn't necessarily accurate either. How do your clothes fit? Is your shape continuing to evolve toward more normo? And just what is it that you ARE eating now you weren't before? How much? and most importantly.....WHY????

"positional hypovolemia" can be resultant from a wide variety of causal conditions including medication and blood flow issues especially in the carotid sinus. I've found for my own instances of such headaches after heavy exercise if I check my blood glucose level it often is way low for me....under 80 & I can expect headache, much lower & I get the wooozies & rapid decrease in focus & mental acuity. As a diabetic the extra step of keep blood sugar levels low but not TOO low is very essential. Low blood pressure/dizziness/headaches often accompany 'standing up too quick' when the carotid sinus in the neck doesn't feed the heart the signal to temporarily increase the blood pressure during those raising-up-quickly maneuvers.

It's been years ago now, but I did personally have a body pod measure after my main weight loss around 18 months postOp IIRC.....and the number it came up with was oddly very close to the same number my BMI correlation was. While it was inexpensive to have it done, the results weren't all that surprising. Unsure whether the process is accurate or upgraded in the probably decade since mine was done. It can all add to the process of understanding and reinforcing that we ARE on the right path to our individual goals though. Cheers,

re: "I wanted to eat something, anything, and I have that same feeling now. I can see the need for some drastic changes in my habits" understand, BTDT! What made that early part of postOp was to start tracking just was "hunger" was..... I was astonished to learn for MYSELF at least, MOST of my eating was in response to the anxiety about becoming hungry, and that in fact I had long forgotten what actual "hunger" really was. From that my observation was to discover 'just what happens IF you actually become 'hungry'. Following *my* months long process would bore anybody, so here's the conclusion: If I found actual 'hunger' physically then I would take a bite of something on my approved list. This is after the 6 week enforced postOp modified fast they insisted I follow. I learned that most often 1 or sometimes "2" bites was all it took to become "NOT" hungry....and that would last for hours! I

@Jack -- I'm not sure that Liability is actually talking about eating food at this point. Have we read him differently? perhaps so.....yet there seems to be considerable interface with all of us who spent much of our lives as Morbidly Obese. Our relationship with food, why and when we eat, and why and when we DON'T eat, are not too different as far as I can tell. And perhaps I'm mistaken....yet the mechanics of 'what we do' surgically is not as important as 'what we do' postOp to move to our vision of Normo healthy weight/life style. It is my conviction the urge to OverEat pre and postOp whatever the procedure, is the very issue we must all learn to manage effectively. Cheers.

One of the early postOp tricks I learned, was to take the waitress aside and quietly 'confer' with her, that "I have recently had stomach surgery and just can not eat much. Can you help me make some kind of reduced size order"? Also, get the take-out box & put most of whatever you order in it first.I had small 'fish & chips order last 3 or 4 extra meals. I became very familiar with the Soups available. The first 6 or 12 months mostly I had "CUP" not 'bowl' size order. Savor each bite. Sometimes I would pace myself with the slowest eater around me; often times either kids or oldOldOLDsters some of whom had various eating troubles themselves. Learning how to pace myself like normo eaters rather than just jamming it all in as fast as possible and looking for more, was the Old Bad Habit I didn't know I had...that was 'normal' for my early years. Strive to recognize when "NOT hungry" strikes rather than "full"....'full' is when I had already OVER eaten, while 'not hungry' was the place I never had learned to appreciate.

such thoughts as "I can't tell if I am having hunger pains or it's just part of the normal pains after surgery. I don't know what to do, should I force myself to eat or should I just keep drinking liquids?" demonstrate how powerful the Dragon affecting our lives tries to remain, until we come to realize there is something besides food/eating/OVEReating in our existence. We must come to understand the Rational Brain is a tool that we really must learn to use. "Forcing myself to eat" is what we all did in our preOp lives, which led to being morbidly Obese. Liquids are essential during this part of postOp recovery. "Forcing myself to eat" should be one of those non-rational behaviors we can all understand is not the path to our goal. Learning what being "NOT hungry" really means, is a Whole New Universe. Welcome to the beginning of your journey. Being 'NOT hungry' in a rational world of normo eaters means 'do not eat'. That is a habit we all have to learn.

"Just stuffed. Is this normal for the first week? While this change soon?" yes. enjoy the sensation of 'NEVER' being hungry while you can. One of the very odd things we suddenly face, is what to do with all that extra time we aren't hungry; eating, preparing to eat, wishing we had not eaten too much, thought about eating something else, etc etc. Let your old Bad Eating Habits float away; they will squirm & try to resurface & make you start eating again even when you AREN'T hungry. Pleasant period that passes way too rapidly IMHO. Good luck!

Thanks to the part of me that DID get away from all this, my shirt size is now down to the below the number of XXXXs I was never going to let it go over....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12027265/Type-2-diabetes-can-be-cured-through-weight-loss-Newcastle-University-finds.html so says Newcastle University read the article, doesn't seem like anything new other than 'orthodox University' makes a claim based on their research.

Book review by Dave Mendosa in his continuing life story as a diabetic who recognizes the importance of seeking out all research to help live as normally as possible with Diabetes: http://www.mendosa.com/blog/?p=3700

thanks for the timely tips, Alex!!! Just getting ready to head out for noonish buffet dinner.... No more does the lure of plates upon plates of T-day gut bombs lead me astray. The challenge is continuing the modest discipline each day presents. I feel so much better being NOT too full than the anxiety of being hungry ever was. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

A little short of specifics but at least there is a field trial and some great results so far: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12016532/End-of-daily-injections-for-diabetes-as-scientists-restore-insulin-production.html "The end of daily injections for diabetes sufferers could be in sight after scientists showed it is possible to restore insulin production for up to a year by boosting the immune system. Hundreds of thousands of people in Britain suffer from Type 1 diabetes and need to inject themselves daily to keep blood sugar levels under control. The disease attacks insulin-secreting cells in the pancreas. Healthy people have billions of ‘peacekeeping’ cells called ‘T-regs’ which protect insulin-making cells from the immune system but people suffering Type 1 diabetes do not have enough. "The T-reg intervention frees people like me from the daily grind of insulin therapy and lifelong fear of complication" Mary Rooney, Type 1 diabetes patient Now researchers at the University of California and Yale have shown that the ‘T-regs’ can be removed from the body, increased by 1,500x in the laboratory and infused back into the bloodstream to restore normal function. An initial trial of 14 people has shown that the therapy is safe, and can last up to a year. "This could be a game-changer," said Dr Jeffrey Bluestone, Professor in Metabolism and Endocrinology at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). “By using T-regs to 're-educate' the immune system, we may be able to really change the course of this disease. "We expect T-regs to be an important part of diabetes therapy in the future."

for me the 'nibble--nibble---nibble' habit worked far better than the 'chew-chew-chew'....as too often I end with 'chew-chew-CHOMP' then the problem begins.... 'nibble-nibble' remains a behavior I have been able to adapt....'chew-chew-chew' continues to escape my Good Habits By the time food gets back to my 'chewers' something shorts out in my brain & chomp/swallow too often. Even now 12 years almost, and I can almost guarantee the entire PB/foam/drool/whatever you call it now, is lurking so close....

"It's like the butt part is too short so the waist band dips down and shows crack. Guess I'll never actually be wearing those jeans.:" Take a look at Duluth Trading site, they have henleys & other shirts with longer tails for 'plumbers crack'... Long ago I had the manditory 3 sets of cloths....too small/never will fit again; too tight/maybe I can somehow wedge into them; and "huh, this many XXXXs just CANT be my size"..... in any case, in the wonder-months after my own Band so long ago, I started jettisoning those old things by the box load. Favorites I held on to despite the 'too-tight blues'. Odd thing happened....suddenly, I was too SMALL for most of them!!! Stuff I'd had for years, just waiting to get back down to what I was sure I'd never 'go over'....etc. The dream was complete with the discover they make whole STORES than somehow don't even HAVE a "XXXXX" section to be found!