Karelia

When something goes well for us, we tend to become evangelists about it. I am going to a "seminar" about VSG tomorrow, though... and I want to know if anyone here wishes they hadn't had the surgery. Thanks.

Jewel, Every story here is anecdotal, too, though. I've also found that the people who DO have complications shy away from message boards like this one because, as I previously mentioned, the people who have great success get evangelical about it. I talked to a bunch of people who did not feel welcomed on boards like this one because they did NOT have positive stories. Based on what I've seen here, I find that extremely believable. Dissenting opinions aren't welcomed... look at what happened in this thread alone to poor Tamz... she was attacked because she wasn't happy, and dared to say so. I didn't feel judged by you... just to clarify. In this particular post, it wasn't that bad. I had another post, explaining my struggles to battle a 28 year eating disorder and my success with IE where I was heavily (no pun intended) judged and even told I was "in denial." I'm fat, not stupid. I'm not in denial. I have done extensive research, and a surgery with a lot of question marks and unknowns as to how my life might be afterwards is simply not worth the risks to me. I'm not rationalizing it away anymore than any of you rationalized the decision to have the surgery. Or at least I hope you didn't just rationalize having it. I'd hope you all did extensive research and came to the conclusion that for you, personally, it WAS worth the unknowns and risks. One final point, as to why I decided against the surgery. I have Hashimoto's Disease. This is NOT A FAT PERSON DISEASE. It is an autoimmune disease. It's taken me years to regulate my thyroid. This surgery could wreck absolute havoc with my thyroid if the medication isn't properly absorbed. I've had a thyroid crash. It is not fun, and it can be deadly. I do not want to risk that ever again.

PS. My husband would absolutely NOT tell me I couldn't have the surgery. He's just opposed to it.

Jewel, A website dedicated to the concept of "food addiction" is not where I'd go for reliable information on such matters. I will always maintain you cannot be addicted to something your body requires to live. You may be emotionally "addicted," but unless the definition of "addiction" changes to "needed for survival," you're not physically addicted to food anymore than you are to oxygen. Everyone, It's very telling and interesting to me how many people have "mourned" the loss of eating large amounts of food... and I was VERY harshly judged here in another post because I have used Intuitive Eating for the past several years and do NOT get weighed. However, I can say with absolutely certainty that I am mentally far healthier than a lot of you who've had this surgery when it comes to my relationship with food. I love food. It's delicious, necessary and fun! And it should be fun. IE let me learn that... before IE, when I was yo-yo dieting I was MISERABLE. And what I realize now is that while, yes, some of the misery came from struggling with the scale and trying to figure out ways to eat what I liked - and what my stomach could tolerate - without going over my Points or calories, what really made me miserable is the fact that food was ALL I EVER THOUGHT ABOUT... ever. Now, I eat more healthfully and consciously than I ever did when I dieted. I rarely binge and I rarely eat to a point where I feel uncomfortably full anymore. My concerns about the surgery, despite what many of you seemed to assume, have NOTHING to do with not being able to "pig out" or being a "food addict." On the contrary, I think mentally I've never been in a better place to have a surgery that would prevent me from "pigging out." However, dieting forces food to be the center of your life. And, at least in the beginning, based on your stories and my very extensive research, that's exactly how it is after WLS, too. It HAS to be that way because you have to train your body to eat in a bizarre and unhealthy fashion - because sorry, but 800 calories a day is NOT healthy. It's starvation. Medically supervised & created starvation. My husband was very opposed to this surgery from the moment I mentioned I was considering it. He's terrified of me having a surgery that DOES kill. People die from WLS (and yes, any surgery)... either during, or after because of complications. He felt that it wasn't worth risking my life to MAYBE extend it. Because, let's face it, there are no guarantees. And particularly this type of surgery... it's still so new that there's not a lot of historical data yet to support it will extend your life. I've talked to many people since I originally posted this who had complications so severe that they do regret it. One girl I know had complications (and admittedly NOT VSG) that caused her to become permanently infertile. The most ironic part of that? She had the surgery at the recommendation of her reproductive endocrinologist... he told her with since PCOS is usually related to being overweight, the surgery could "cure" her infertility. Well, a. she still has EVERY PCOS symptom she had before, even after over 100 pounds lost. B. the complications she had resulted in problems that ensure she can never have a child... even IF her PCOS goes away. I had a RE tell me the same BS story... but I didn't believe it because I already knew so many thin women who had PCOS, and many others who'd lost weight and it didn't "cure" them at all. While I'm happy for all of you who don't regret it, and who've had success, I decided this is not for me. I've done a lot of research on both the surgery and the notion that being fat automatically means being unhealthy. It's interesting to note, when you pay attention to study authors, how many of the "obesity is EVIL" people are in the pockets of major pharma or diet companies. It's in the vested interest to promote the notion that to be healthy one must be thin. There is a book I highly recommend, especially to anyone that has plateaued at what they are being told is still an "unhealthy" weight. It's called Health At Every Size. I'd also recommend Intuitive Eating. Both books point out that ever body is unique and the "one size fits all" approach has got to stop because it promotes unhealthy attitudes and behaviors. The BMI charts are one of the worst things ever invented, and I've thought that for years. If I *had* done this surgery I planned to do it without ever knowing my weight, and without a specific goal set. I don't need to go down that disastrous road again, ever. Now, I'm not saying that losing weight couldn't or wouldn't make my life EASIER. It certainly could. But given the method of weight loss in question, I don't think it would make it BETTER, and I am far more concerned about that at this point. In fact, the potential to make it much, much worse is just a risk I refuse to take. More to the point, I refuse to literally risk my life. And yes, I know you're all going BUT YOU'RE SO FAT - you're life is already at risk! Maybe... but no more so than someone crossing a busy street, at this point. Going under the knife is too often deadly... having to do surgery for emergency reasons is one thing. Doing it voluntarily is just not for me, especially given the high likelihood that I would struggle to lose much weight because of the health issues that prevented me from losing weight when I was dieting and following the program strictly. I appreciate the answers, even if I felt awfully judged by many of you - and saw you judge others in your own community. I've spent the past six months debating this, and I've come to the final decision only recently. I hope that those of you who read this will respect my decision, even if you disagree with it, just as I respect your choice to have this surgery, even if I don't think the risks involved are worth it for ME.

I wasn't referring to you, and I'm very glad it got better for you. I hope it continues to do so. I do not for one minute believe, however, that every single person who has this surgery done LOVES it, and I think it's pretty damn naive to believe that. Tamz even said in her very own post that she's still hopeful she will eventually NOT regret it, so I don't see why her opinion and feelings should be so easily discounted by those of you fortunate enough to have reached a point where you no longer regret it. I have no idea what "entertainment" you think I am getting out of these responses, or what decision you think I've made when you claim my "mind is made up." My mind is far from made up. It's an extreme choice to make, one that is potentially fraught with complications and regret. I just want ALL the stories I can get. Glowing reviews are always easy to come by... and much like many women who have experienced labor, the further out you get from it, the easier it is to forget how awful it was at that moment, especially if the "rewards" are amazing for you. There's no way this procedure is right for everyone. I'm trying to figure out if it is for me. Every body is unique, and every person's response to something this serious and extreme is going to differ. I'm taking EVERY story with a grain of salt because I know that if I did have the surgery, MY experience would be my very own... it might compare to some of yours, but it's still never going to be the same exact story. For reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with my weight, the past four years of my life have been sheer hell. The last thing I want to do is rush into a decision that has the potential to make the rest of my life hell... or worse, to end it! Furthermore, I *need* to hear the stories of people who aren't that far in, to see how challenging life is in those early months. I need to have the surgery by October, if I am having it, because I start student teaching in January. I'm planning to give myself the few months to recover and adjust, but if a lot of people experience major challenges for the first six months, I can't do this at this point. I can't risk not being healthy enough. During student teaching, we're not allowed to miss a single day of teaching. If school is in session, we MUST be there... so, perhaps you understand why these early post-op stories matter, too.

Oh, I want everyone's opinion. I don't care if you're 2 days post-op. The more information I have, the better able I am to make decisions. I suspect that the people who regret it after 6 months or more probably don't post on forums like these anyway, for the simple reason that they'll likely be attacked as Tamz was here. I never considered any of the other types of WLS very seriously. I have a very bad case of Hashimoto's Disease, and the malabsorption issues are enough to put me off those types of surgery. I also know the complication rates are higher with the other types based on the document my insurance company provides (lap-band was slightly lower, but I've heard enough lap-band horror stories, and it's not really suitable for someone my size anyway). They cover all the types, but give the basic facts. I admit that the 1 in 1000 mortality rate is higher than I'd like, even though I accept that it translates to .1%. Still, that's scary... 1 out of 1000 people who do this will die? I'm not sure I like that risk. There are reasons I'm considering doing this, mostly they're practical. I'm going to finish grad school next year, and I'm worried no one will hire me. But it's also logistical. It would be nice to not need 2 airplane tickets. It would be nice to sit in a booth... but even more practical, it would be nice to not worry that if I do manage to get hired, I won't fit in the seats in the auditorium at the school I work at, or on field trips that I won't fit in the seat on a bus... etc, etc. Those of you who've been a very high weight know what I mean. It's more than looking a way that's socially inadequate. That I don't give a rat's ass about (aside from the risks of not getting a job over it). I have an amazing marriage - better than most of the thin people I know. He loves me for who I am, regardless of my size. I don't need to lose weight to gain friends or find a man. I don't go out socially, so I don't care much about what I can or can't eat when I do. I'd just like life to be less inconvenient. If it actually made me healthier, bonus, but I'm somewhat skeptical and there aren't many long term studies at this point to back up the health benefits. Anecdotal evidence is great... but it's got to be taken with a grain of salt. Anyway, ty all for sharing your stories.

I don't think attacking Tamz on MY thread - where I asked specifically about "buyer's remorse" is very fair. She's sharing her honest feelings. You wanna be positive about hair loss and saggy skin, that's great. She doesn't have to be.

I wouldn't even be able to consider this if I was self-pay. My insurance will cover it, or so they say. There are a few things I want to make clear. One is that after four years of Intuitive Eating, I rarely binge or even eat to the point where I feel overly full. I am far from perfect, but if I hadn't had these four years where I've learned to see food as something that is a tool, but also something fun that doesn't have to control me, I'd never even consider this surgery. That said, the idea of a food "addiction" is plain silly to me. I realize that's an unpopular viewpoint, but you cannot be any more addicted to food than you can to oxygen. You NEED both to live. So, if you believe in oxygen addictions, well, that's another story. Nicotine, caffeine, heroin, whatever... these are things we do not NEED to survive, and therefore can be true addictions. Food is a necessary component of life. I definitely used food in the wrong ways, but that doesn't make it an addiction. I guess an argument can be made for a "psychological addiction," but I've been much healthier emotionally since realizing that food is fuel. It can - and should be - fun, pleasant and enjoyable. I love food, and always will. I've just learned to love less of it, to listen to my body. Sometimes, for example, my tastebuds may say "CHOCOLATE" but my body makes it very clear it wants - needs! - Protein. I eat the protein. These are the things IE has taught me, things that I imagine would be invaluable should I go forward with this procedure. However, the reality is, fibromyalgia (like IBS) is a testy disease. I might be one of the unlucky ones who does not respond well to such a drastic change in diet. There's a chance that I have this surgery and feel even worse than I already do. There are no sure things, and that is very frightening to me. Yes, I might be lucky and feel fabulous, at least after an initial period of pretty freaking awful... but I might also never feel better, or may be even worse. Being thinner would be nice, but not if it means more pain. The idea of a lot of vomiting is very off putting to me, too. I already deal with chronic nausea, and that's bad enough. I have to be really careful with what I eat, particularly where raw veggies and fruits are concerned. It sucks because I love them, but they're asking for trouble and feeling miserable, so I've learned to avoid most of them. Always made dieting fun, too... I am unconvinced that a procedure of this extreme will actually lengthen my life. I've read studies that show that people who do gastric bypass and are diabetic often redevelop diabetes later in life, even when they've kept the weight off. I have concerns on how healthy it is for a heart to be put through such dramatic, rapid weight loss. But even if my life isn't extended, if the quality of it improves, then it's worth it. Problem is, there are just no guarantees, and anyone claiming otherwise is not to be trusted. I could be MUCH happier and feel much healthier. I might be miserable and feel much worse. There's no way to know, and if I do this and it's the latter... I'm just screwed, because there's no going back. So it's more than a bit scary...

Thanks, Meg... my stomach is one issue I have. I have terrible IBS and have already made dramatic dietary changes, but it's related to fibromyalgia, so there's only so much I can do, really. It's scary, because maybe VSG makes my stomach better... maybe it makes it worse. Same goes with the fibro. There's really no way to know, and it's such a HUGE risk since you can't "undo" it.

For nearly four years, I've worked on Intuitive Eating. I worked with an eating disorder therapist for a couple of years, and she is the one who directed me on this journey. I stopped dieting. I've - for the most part - never been happier. Dieting made me miserable, insecure and it didn't work. My weight has basically stabilized. I base that on how my rings and clothes fit. I've fluctuated, but probably not more than 10 pounds in either direction. For the most part, I eat what I like when I'm hungry. food stopped being an enemy. I'm not yo-yo dieting up and down 30 pounds a year (and it was always more up than down). I'm happily married. I have a husband who loves me for who I am, not what I look like. I was 380 pounds on our wedding day seven years ago, so it's not like he married me thin and then I got fat. I truly know I am loved for who I am as a person, and not the size of my clothes or a number on the scale. I haven't gotten on a scale in almost four years. I live someplace that is, for the most part, not as superficial as the rest of the world. I lived in NYC for six years and I don't think I could've come to the emotional place I am at now while living there... where a size 8 is too fat, and everyone is judged for how they look. So, why am I here? A friend had this type of surgery a year ago. I'd never heard of it before I read some of her blog posts about it. I knew about the other types of WLS and I knew - with no doubt - that they were not for me. I knew too many people who had WLS and suffered unpleasant side effects afterwards due to absorption issues and "dumping syndrome..." even sometimes with foods that one day they could eat without problem, but the next day it made them sick! I never wanted to go through that, even when I wanted to lose weight desperately. I no longer want to lose weight desperately. In fact, there are only a few reasons I *want* to lose weight at all. There's the obvious inconveniences that come with being more than 200 pounds overweight. I need 2 airplane tickets, for example, which pretty much eliminates the potential for air travel. Which usually doesn't matter, as we prefer road trips anyway... but at the same time, it would be nice to have flying be an option. I am also somewhat concerned about the potential health issues. I'm not diabetic, but it is in the family. I don't have any heart issues I wouldn't have anyway (benign palpitations), but I'd also like to keep it that way. My father died of a heart attack in January. He was 58, almost 59. I am 35, and I'm not really fond of the thought of dying young. Granted, he was diabetic and did not control it even slightly for years... which led to kidney failure and dialysis. The point being, he had medical issues I don't currently have. I'd like to keep it that way, though. I have fibromyalgia. Exercise is extremely painful for me. I don't really know that it would be easier if I lost weight, but it might be... however, I do have some concerns that eating so little - as is required following surgery - might be a problem for me because of the fibro... because I am already so tired and have so little energy. Here's where things get complicated, though. I don't ever wanna know what I weigh again. I just don't. It's not good for me emotionally. I am so much happier not knowing, and *if* I were to undergo this procedure, I wouldn't want to know what I started out at or where I finish. I'm just pretty sure no doctor is going to work with me on that. I don't want a goal weight. They can assign me one, and weigh me... but I don't want to know about it. I'm not considering this radical procedure because I want to be thin. I'm not dreaming of wearing a bikini, and frankly, given the extra skin I'd likely have to deal with, I might look even worse after surgery than I sometimes feel I do now (though generally, I don't really think of my looks at all - it's been part of my eating disorder recovery process). If I were to have surgery, I'd only tell my husband and a few very close friends. It's none of anyone's business, but I also think that people are quick to jump on a bandwagon - so to speak... and surgery is an extreme choice to deal with a lifelong problem. I don't want to influence others in a way that might be negative. But mostly, it's just that I'm a fairly private person. I've accepted my body and my limitations. I love myself the way I am now. But I can't deny that life would be so much easier if I could lose weight. Dieting won't get me there, and it will make me absolutely miserable. I have two medical conditions that make weight loss challenging (polycystic ovarian syndrome and Hashimoto's Disease). However, I know that I can follow a medically necessary change to my diet. Last year I had gallbladder surgery and for 2 months had to eat a very low fat diet. It didn't make me crazy, I didn't really feel any sort of deprivation and I wasn't obsessing about my weight during that time... because it wasn't about that. I get that WLS is about losing weight, but for me it wouldn't be the focus. It would just be a means to an end that makes life less challenging and hopefully makes me feel better than I do now (due to the fibromyalgia). I'm just curious... I'm doubtful I'll find anyone who doesn't check the scale regularly, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask...

Thanks for sharing your story. I don't feel like I am killing myself with food. I make mostly healthy choices, but don't beat myself up over the ones that aren't as healthy. I eat a more balanced diet now than I ever did when I was actually dieting. I do feel like it would be nice to not worry about fitting in chairs. I accept I have limitations, but I don't love having them. Sweating isn't really an issue for me, since I live in a low-humidity climate, and I have Raynaud's Syndrome. I'm far more likely to be cold than hot these days. But obviously, there are things that are frustrating, impossible or hard at my weight. I wouldn't be posting here otherwise. Doesn't mean I don't accept myself or love myself as is. I also don't imagine I'd ever be "hot" or "sexy" in the popular sense of those words. Several people I know who had WLS aged rapidly afterwards. One woman I know had gastric bypass and in 2 years lost 200 pounds, but she aged so much people started to ask her if she was 50. She was 33... and she confessed to me she regretted the decision because she felt she looked even worse. But then, she did it because she wanted to be sexier for her husband, and that's not the best reason to make such a drastic choice. I also know excess skin can be a problem - sometimes even a medical one (infections and such). I truly have no interest in the scale. It's not about not liking the number... well, not exactly. With my eating disorder history, a scale is a dangerous thing. It becomes a definition of self, and I never want that again. Furthermore, I can get obsessive compulsive, and I'd worry that I'd go from one extreme to another if I got caught up in the numbers game. Finally, because of the PCOS and the thyroid issues, I would probably lose weight much more slowly than a lot of you who have this surgery. I see all the tickers and weight loss progress charts, and I *know* I'd get caught up in comparisons, and forget that I'm me. My body will do what it wants, to an extent... and I can't control those issues. BTW, my thyroid issue is possibly the biggest reason I'd not have done the other types of surgery that have malabsorption issues. If my body can't properly absorb the artificial thyroid hormone I have to take, all hell could break loose. It could even kill me, if it was bad enough. I'm already on a crazy high dosage because of how badly my body attacks the hormone that my thyroid does manage to produce... I can't imagine what they'd have to put me on the make up for absorption loss!

Thanks, Disney... I suspect it's not dissimilar in some ways to my post-gallbladder recovery. I was able to eat anything I ate before. The only difference I have noticed is that I need to eat more frequently. If I go hours in between meals, my stomach literally hurts. So I try to eat smaller amounts more frequently. I am also sensitive to a lot of artificial sweeteners. I can taste sucralose even when I buy something I didn't know had it, so I avoid it like the plague. I can tolerate aspartame, but not in things like pudding or yogurt. I don't drink diet soda at all, so that's not an issue for me. In fact, I avoid soda in general. I used to drink Crystal Light, but after the gallbladder surgery, it tasted weird. I have no idea why, but I can't drink it anymore. So I mainly drink Water, hot tea (often herbal) and once in a while grape juice.

I appreciate your insight... and you may be right. I'm not at all convinced this is an answer for me, or something I want to put myself through. The restrictions don't worry me much, since they'll become medically necessary if I have the surgery. But they are something to consider while asking questions. I'm not so much opposed to weighing or measuring food as I am to weighing or measuring ME, lol. I had to eat extremely carefully following my gallbladder removal last year, and there was a chance that I might have to keep that sort of diet permanently. Some people do... it was over six weeks before I even tried a small piece of chocolate. I had to slowly reintroduce foods. Possibly because my gallbladder attacks weren't triggered by fatty meals, I was lucky. I haven't had any issues with any foods (that I didn't already have issues with). I do, however, worry that the low carb nature of the post-surgical diet is not a good fit for me. Not for the reasons I'm sure some might think, either. I have very bad IBS, and there are times when crackers or a piece of toast are all I can stomach. I can't eat most veggies raw and have to completely avoid citrus fruits. There are a lot of fruits I love and miss, but it's not worth how awful they make me feel. It's one reason the low fat, high Fiber diets were doomed for me. The things I *could* eat weren't the most healthy options (like Rice Krispies Treats!). So, that's something I'd be worried about. Right now, I balance what I eat very carefully in terms of how my stomach responds to foods, and carbs of some sort (multi-grain breads, crackers, etc) are usually involved. So I'm not sure I could live comfortably on a diet that didn't allow them.

Kathy, I see your point... and I absolutely respect everyone's decision to do what works for them. For me, if I know what I weigh, it becomes a battle, a struggle, a war. I never want to be at war with my body again. I also happen to know that, despite what the media will have us believe, health issues related to weight are not as black and white as they're made to seem. I have done a lot of research, and I believe there are plenty of thin people who are very unhealthy and a lot of "overweight" people who are much healthier than some of their thin counterparts. I'm not interested in a number on the scale, but I am interested in being healthier - and it's that which made me lose interest in the numbers game. For me, that's NOT healthy. I'm just not convinced I'd even find a doctor who would work with me on that. I also don't think surgery is even an option for me right now, because our insurance company sent a letter like six years back to all patients saying they'd no longer cover WLS for any reason. But I'm curious enough to do the research at this point, and find out more about it.

Clearly, you're unfamiliar with IE. It's not about making excuses. It's about acceptance. I learned that I don't have to be thin to love myself. I already knew that, but dieting taught me otherwise. It taught me I was a miserable, no good, fat failure. I believed I was supposed to feel hatred about my body, because that's what dieting and weight loss programs typically teach, even if it's indirect. I learned to listen to my body's hunger cues, which I never did before. I learned that just because it's there, doesn't mean I have to eat it... or eat all of it. food is always there. Dieting lends itself to feelings of desperation where food is concerned. If it's prohibited, it's "bad" for you. It's not always that black & white, and it's easy to diet and still eat in ways that are unhealthy. I know, I did it for years on Weight Watchers. I ate nothing but junk food, even if I was in my Points... I lost weight, but I certainly wasn't eating "healthy." I've explored foods I never would've before IE. I've learned what I really like and what I just thought I liked because it was verboten on diets. Things like Twinkies, as a concrete example. I hate Twinkies, but I can't tell you how many times I binged on them. I almost never binge anymore. I used to non-stop. I rarely overeat because I've learned I don't like that "too full" feeling, and I know enough now to recognize when I'm in danger of hitting that point. The fact that my weight has stabilized clearly demonstrates that I'm not eating the way I once did. Otherwise, I'd have continued to gain weight rapidly. I didn't. I also didn't lose weight, but that's almost certainly because I have medical issues that work against me, both physiologically and in the sense that I can't be as active as I wish I could be thanks to chronic pain. In fact, if not for the lessons I've learned as a result of eating disorder therapy and Intuitive Eating, I wouldn't even consider a procedure like this... and the fact that I am has absolutely nothing to do with how I feel about myself emotionally. It's a logistics choice, and a concern that someday maybe I'll need blood pressure medications, or become diabetic. It's very easy to judge other people's choices, especially when you don't know very much about them, or the reasons behind them... it's human nature to judge, and we all do it. But when you spend so much of your life being judged because of a number on the scale or the way you look, it gets tiresome.

Thanks, Wheetsin... that's a good analogy.