clk

Thanks for the post, Puja - haven't seen you around in a while! This is why I'm hugely grateful for the vet board. Due to the fact that most vets simply do not hang around there was not a realistic picture out there for me about the real (and forever) challenges of maintenance. It still takes work. I know that I maintained easily before but if I am not mindful of my eating and I avoid the scale I can easily put on additional pounds. And goodness knows it's harder and harder to shed pounds the farther out I get. Not that it was ever an easy task! Having a realistic maintenance window is a good idea, as is weighing daily to stay on top of any changes. Tiny adjustments over the course of a few days are easy to shed a pound or two. Waiting until you have five or more to lose will be a problem, and it will get progressively harder the farther out you get. You've done great - one pound is no big worry but a wake up call is probably a good thing. ~Cheri

You do not get dumping DUE to the sleeve. Any time you switch up your diet and eat too much sugar, fat, or in my case DAIRY (due to lactose intolerance) you can experience dumping. It can happen pre-sleeve as well, especially if you go haywire on junk after being on a strict diet for a while. ~Cheri

Awesome - kudos to TES to starting a group that can be a more informative start for people that might consider 5:2 down the road. I don't want anyone to feel excluded. But I also don't want to spend a lot of time coaching someone who can barely eat 800 calories a day on a feast day and is frustrated by the slow and steady pace of this method. And for me, that's emphasis on the SLOW and not quite so much on the steady! ~Cheri

I don't know that the requirement needs to be specifically a year; then again I lost to goal at a very slow pace - so on the one hand I remember the desire to find that thing to shake things up, but at the same time, many of the people that are posting that they want to do the 5:2 thing are just a few months out and losing at a perfectly normal pace. No need to mess with that. I think that the first reason people wanted to keep the group private was the high number of PMs and posts from people JUST SLEEVED experiencing perfectly normal weight loss wanting to try a method of eating that is not suited to that time frame. If you're not eating more than 1,200-1,300 calories a day already I don't see how intermittent fasting is going to benefit. The idea is the deficit built up over the two fasting days with a normal diet of 2,000 calories - with many of even the vets doing this, it's being done with a feast day limit that's much lower than that. What does that mean? If the 2,000 calorie feast days are part of a plan designed to shed 1-2 pounds a week, many of us get even less than that because most of the gals have trouble hitting even 1,300 calories a day. I'm three years out: my feast days are closer to 1,600 but I still have some where I just don't eat more than 1,200 myself. And this is not a program for people with a large amount of weight to lose if they're going to be frustrated with slow loss. I've logged losses in the TENTHS of a pound for the last two weeks. I think a lot of people feel like they're being excluded from a nifty new weight loss technique when that's not the case at all. This is the ideal program for someone closing in on goal and transitioning to maintenance. It is simply not ideally suited to someone just a few months out with more than sixty pounds to lose, which is why the group of us is entirely compromised of people closing in on goal or trying to lose a regain (and yes, one or two members are less than a year out). That said, Google is fantastic and there's more than one neato website that will explain the method to you so you can do it on your own. The group is limited to people farther out; but nobody needs the approval of anyone else to go solo, or start a new thread or group (as has already been done). So it's not that there's this super special clique that's excluding people. It's that the vast majority of people that were inquiring about this method are already 1) losing at a perfectly reasonable rate and 2) unable to build up a deficit that would make 5:2 even remotely useful. The group was started by someone that has never started a group before and who isn't on VST every day. Cut her some slack and send a PM, or go join in on the other thread or use Google or search out one of the half a dozen threads here already talking about 5:2 and how it works. Lots of options here; no need for this to degenerate into accusations and unpleasantness. ~Cheri

It worked for me at first. Sometimes I'll still grab a bread plate if we're having a meal that I won't eat much of. I find that I still, after three years, fill the plate too much and end up wasting food when I'm not measuring or using a small plate. I spent years and years filling big dinner plates until there was no empty space left. That's a hard habit to break. ~Cheri

Dude, bacon is awesome and it's Protein. Unless it's forbidden by your plan I don't see an issue. I eat it all the time! Gmanbat is right, as usual. You don't get to control your rate of loss. I learned this the hard way. If the scale gets you down too much, start weighing weekly. Weighing daily is important in maintenance but in loss phase it gives too many people the expectation to see a drop every single time they step on the scale. It isn't going to happen that way. I'm trying to shed my last few baby pounds and even knowing this can get completely ticked when the scale bounces five pounds overnight because I exercised strenuously the night before. Relax, really. It'll all be fine. And remember that bacon is good. A diet of only bacon wouldn't be (too much sodium and fat) but it's a perfectly acceptable choice post op if you keep it under control. ~Cheri

The issue isn't stretch - Arts137 is absolutely spot on. Just a few posts down from here is a great post from Doug that you should probably take the time to read. Your sleeve does ONE thing. It cuts down your capacity. If you eat around that you can easily consume in excess of 2,500 calories day. If you make it a habit, you will have a problem. You won't just stop losing, you will experience regain. We all go through stressful points or times when we just want to eat, because that's the old, ingrained habit. The fact is that you have to learn how to cope differently, or you will not achieve goal and maintain. Counseling can help, as can tracking calories religiously (it's a wake up for many) or just working on behavior modification - whatever you choose, it's clear there's a problem that you need to address. I'm a bereaved parent myself - if you aren't already in a group or one-on-one counseling you really need to be. Find a mentor here or in the real world that understands what you're experiencing. The food choice isn't bad. Bagels aren't forbidden food. It's how you're eating enough to be full, waiting a bit, and eating some more. I am not trying to be tough love. You have a lot on your plate. But if you allow the emotions and stress of this to sweep you up it's easy to lose yourself and what's best for you in all of it. You had a major operation to improve your quality of life. Do not let life stop that, even though it's incredibly difficult right now. Nobody expects you to be perfect. Just don't allow a bad habit to become so ingrained that you can't break it later on. Best of luck on the diet - and my thoughts are with you on the rest, ~Cheri

I avoid artificial sweeteners for the most part. They're in my Protein Shake and that's about it, besides the occasional Crystal Light or Mio drops. I use fruit infused Water more often than anything else to avoid them. I can taste the sugar alcohols and it repulses me. I picked up an onion dressing for DH the other day and didn't realize it was the "lite" version. YUCK. I can taste that fake sweetness in there. I just whipped up my own instead. No way do I want to eat something that tastes like that. I had a bad weigh in yesterday - kinda mad. I bounced back 2.2 pounds after dropping down and so I think my loss for the week is actually 2 tenths of a pound. I'm having a real problem tracking back to how much I've lost. I think that due to the bounces I keep having I'm down about eight pounds in five weeks. That's not bad but I am pretty sure I lost 2 tenths of a pound last week, too. (I lost 2.5 pounds the week prior.) Let's hope that this is just a temporary slow down and that I don't progress at this rate for the rest of my time. This is exactly how loss normally goes for me - tenths of a pound a week, or nothing at all, followed by a larger drop (a couple pounds) once every four to six weeks. In any case, I dropped again today and it's a fast day for me. We'll see how it comes out at the end of the week. I'm doing the zoo with all the kids today - so drinking lots of water, packing a picnic lunch and gettting in tons of walking. We're having another overcast day (surprise, surprise) but it's only getting up to the mid-eighties and we aren't expecting rain until this evening. A good time to see the zoo - it won't be glaringly hot or rainy, either. Hope everyone has a good day. I found myself inordinately annoyed at the new 5:2 thread but refrained from posting about the stupidity of treating the sleeve like a diet immediately out of the gate. Now I figure there's no reason for me to feel anything about the choices of other people so I'm staying out of it. I find it hard to understand how new people who can hardly eat are going to eat such a strict deficit or how this program would work for them, but hey, in the rush to "be the skinniest the fastest" people turn into morons. I'm off - lots of things to do before we head out today. I've been quiet by half of my houseguests left this morning and the other one leaves on Thursday. That'll bring us back down to just the stepkids until my MIL shows up next Tuesday. I may actually find myself with time to relax this weekend! ~Cheri

coops, you are my personal hero, no joke! Twenty one months at the same weight - when we regularly see people fly into a panic at the thought of more than two weeks at the same weight. Truly, you have come so very far and have accomplished so much in the past three years. I'm thankful for your post and the opportunity to learn more of your background. It has not been an easy journey for you but maintaining alone for those 21 months is more than many people manage to do! Not taking your sleeve for granted is truly a wonderful piece of advice; many on the vet board can attest that there comes a time when it shifts the majority of the work of maintaining over to us. You've done great on 5:2 lady, and deserve this success. I hope to see you surpass your surgeon's goal and close in on your personal goal over the coming months. You look fantastic and are an inspiration to anyone struggling here on the boards. Stay awesome, friend! ~Cheri

Me? Wow...that's truly awesome, thank you. ~Cheri

Okay, I'm actually having trouble figuring out my weight because I can't find my weights in the old thread and I didn't record my weight every day on MFP. I eventually started putting it in the notes daily and logging it every Sunday but didn't at first. I thought I was down eight pounds in four weeks but I think I'm down eight pounds in just under five weeks. So best guess for me is that I started on 23 June and am down 8 pounds. But what I'll put here now (so I can remember) is that I am currently 141 pounds and back into my maintenance window (albeit at the top end) and have six more pounds to goal. ~Cheri

Syntrax Nectars - I enjoy them and despite the fact that they use artificial sweetener (except the naturals) they don't give me any side effects. Other powers cause bloating or gas or they taste off to me. ~Cheri

Sometimes we start to explode like a volcano and post mean things in the rants and raves forum that get shut down. Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything. It's a matter of balance. I want to be here to help, but I also want to benefit from being here. I can't benefit or focus on the good if I allow the rest of it to frustrate me. So I dodge a lot of posts, roll my eyes safely from the other side of my computer screen on others and vent to my husband about how people really should research and read before undergoing major surgery. So I keep from becoming even more jaded (too late, in my case) by not even visiting particular boards when they're venturing into annoying or aggravating territory. Nothing is more infuriating (okay, too strong a word but it conveys my point) than someone six weeks out lecturing another sleever on how they must be doing something wrong since they've lost "X" pounds in six weeks and the other person is experiencing a perfectly normal weight loss hiccup. I always want to post about how they don't really know anything and aren't really helping. But that's not nice and I'm making a concerted effort to be nicer. I hope people can tell. I'm certainly not criticizing your post. Maybe you can take something from here to help yourself as a vet later on. There's a reason we needed a vet forum. There's a reason you'll only find a handful of people regularly posting that are more than a year out, and even fewer more than two years out. It's incredibly difficult to be here and be supportive for the long run when 1) many people that post don't actually want answers or honesty; they want validation and 2) a number of people only post to complain or vent or ask advice, never to support or help other people. The reality is that for some people the loss is EASY. But maintenance is hard for everyone, I think. There's a lot more to this process than shedding pounds. I often wonder how well some of those folks that flew to goal and then never came back are really doing in maintenance. I'm skeptical that many of them have continued to maintain. It's easy to be optimistic when weight comes off effortlessly. But these are the same people that panic and take over the boards with countless STALL!! threads the second they hit a hiccup. They're not mentally prepared for this to actually take WORK. And boy, it does take work. It's not something that ends, it's not something that goes away and it's not a freaking magic solution to just slice out your stomach. Just my opinion. I've got lots of those and I'm not so great at keeping them to myself. ~Cheri

Congrats on shedding the regain. I truly feel its absolutely imperative that we weigh daily in maintenance. I make a diet adjustment immediately once I see a number close to the end of my maintenance window (usually 137-141) and until I started hormones to get pregnant I never once bounced out of that range. I think there's a line to walk here. No, don't beat yourself up over a gain. But don't excuse it to yourself, either, or you can easily find that small gain being a twenty pound gain. Be accountable without being unforgiving of yourself. Great work, and without question getting unexpected validation of our efforts is a treat. It's inspiring, but it's important that we find a way to inspire ourselves to stay on track, too. ~Cheri

Okay. I'm not yelling at OP but sometimes posts make me want to bang my head on the wall. Not so much the original post but some of the responses we see sometimes. So this post is going to show here, in this thread, but is really kind of directed out there in a general sense, in a "for goodness' sake stop freaking out people" kind of sense. This is not a stall. A stall is three weeks at the same weight, no budge. We do not need to fiddle with our diets to break stalls. They are normal. What is not normal is expecting to lose weight every single time we step on the scale. Our bodies go through trauma and shedding weight at a pace never before matched is a shock to our systems. Stalls, plateaus, stops, starts, gains - ALL NORMAL. No reason to break out the diet handbook and stop eating or doing special tricks to make the scale move. All you do is make yourself crazy when you think you can control your rate of loss. Easy way to put your mind at ease: Ask yourself if you ate an extra 3,500 calories for each pound that scale reflects. The answer is most assuredly NO. It is not fat. It is Water from sodium, or gain from exercise or that monthly gain most women experience due to hormones. So, in the beginning you have to have one of two approaches to the scale: One, weigh daily but accept that it will do crazy things that make no sense, that you cannot control it and that the weight will come off if you persevere and keep on the same path. Two, weigh weekly and rejoice each time you log that loss, however small. We all go through this frustration. I can bounce as much as EIGHT POUNDS overnight if I do strenuous exercise. Did I eat an extra 28,000 calories the night before? NO, that would be impossible short of putting in a milkshake IV. Relax. Enjoy this and accept that the scale isn't your friend. It's a tool - literally, a tool that reflects your weight and a tool in the crude sense (i.e. a total d**k that isn't on your side) so just breathe and keep on going. ~Cheri

You're on clears - of course you feel hungry. It's pretty common, actually, and persists until you're on solid foods and chewing again. Four days out you still have ghrelin in your system, you're probably still making too much acid even if you're on a PPI (can take 10 days to really take full effect) and you're used to eating...but now you're on a clear diet. It's normal and will pass. And everyone is different. Some people immediately on solids could eat what I was still struggling to eat a year out. We're all different. ~Cheri

Find better ways to get your Protein. I did not regularly eat to my protein and calorie goals until four to six months post op. I ate around the clock until that point and I aim for 70-90 grams of protein a day. You NEED protein - you will lose muscle, not fat if you do not get enough protein. Trust me, your body will get skinnier and your weight will go down but you will see the difference in the mirror at goal if you don't get adequate nutrition. That's in addition to the other issues you can have. Find a protein you want to drink, that you enjoy. I have one scoop nearly every AM as a protein coffee and have a shake I love mixed with just Water in the evenings many nights. That's an extra 50 grams of protein a day. Two simple drinks and they keep me from overindulging. If you can't/won't do a different shake, try maximizing the protein in your meals. That means that until you have a larger capacity, you're eating a lot of eggs, meat and cottage cheese and won't have room for much else. For now, it's probably okay to be a little low on your goals - you're only a month out. It will get easier the farther out you get. Do not build a habit of large meals all day long or it will be hard to adjust out of that again. I do three larger meals and two Snacks a day now that my stomach is as big as it's getting. In the early months YES it is pretty common to get to the point where you dislike eating and feel frustrated with those guidelines you need to meet. ~Cheri

Search out the low BMIers we have here. A lot of folks self-pay for BMI as low as 35 - some even lower than that! I was 45 day of surgery, so I was larger but heard many of the same things you are hearing. Is it possible you'll regret surgery? Sure. It's possible that could happen if your BMI was higher or lower, too. Most regrets don't stem from actual complications or problems - they stem from your mindset. Have you tried to diet and failed? I'm not sure about you but I didn't go from skinny one night to being morbidly obese the next morning. I struggled with my weight for more than a decade before having surgery. Dieting wasn't cutting it. If it worked for me, the first one I tried as a teen would have been the miracle cure and I'd still have a whole stomach. Even with a sleeve I've had to fight for most of my pounds to come off. It has not been easy. People that shouldn't get a sleeve: Are unwilling or unable to change disordered eating behaviors that have contributed to their obesity Are expecting a fast, effortless trip from fat to goal in just a few months Expect to see loss every single time on the scale Plan to treat the sleeve like part two of a special diet Aren't prepared for the real possibility (though remote) of complications or the accompanying pain and expense Are not able to tolerate pain or discomfort for the brief healing period Are not able to accept lifestyle changes as necessary for success Are unwilling to follow doctor or surgeon's orders post op, or adhere to the special post op dietary guidelines The sleeve will change your life. I would do mine again in a heartbeat. Had the opportunity and knowledge come to me at 41 or 40 or even in the high 30s BMI range I would have done it then, too. I regret that I waited until I was diabetic and had so much more weight to shed. But that's just my experience. You'll need to think on this and if you're ready for the changes it entails. If you are prepared, this process is much easier. ~Cheri

Really, I gained eleven pounds that I know of (I avoided the scale for a week post op) so it happens. Many people feel "hunger" until they're on soft foods and solids. It gets easier. In the beginning the focus is hydration, Protein, calories, in that order. If you aren't hungry, that's okay but you better be sip, sip, sipping on something all day long. Dehydration will make you feel horrible and will set you back and sometimes leads to an extra trip to the hospital, so be careful. ~Cheri

Great insightful post by Laura. In this, as in most things, you'll get to experience it first and guide her through. You'll know what she should expect and be better able to help her navigate her life post op. And yes, teens want things now. She's resentful that a hurdle was placed in front of her that wasn't placed in front of you. A six month plan is a good requirement, especially at her age. And six months can seem like an eternity (especially when you're all of seventeen) but it will pass very quickly. Before you know it she'll be on the other side and all of this will be forgotten. Good luck - and while it's moving quickly for you it could have been the other way around - some folks here have a year long process to get approved! ~Cheri

Oh, and FYE, AWESOME painting.

Hey everyone! Been busy - if I comment on everything that's happened since I was here last my post would be ten times longer than usual (i.e. just plain ridiculous) so if I leave anything out it's not intentional! Congrats to all the losses logged this week. Georgia's leading the way there with a huge loss. Swizzly - staying constant on the scale is something we've all dealt with and I want to ask (without offending) if you had considered that you might just need less calories on your regular days to lose? I know you're not gaining (I don't on those numbers, either) but losing is a challenge for me unless I bring it down. Have you tried taking the average of your non-fast days for a week and shaving 20% off that number to kick start your loss? In any case, hang in there. As long as it takes, right? Look at coops, she's a champ. A special hooah to coops on finally knocking down on the scale. Great work, lady! Laura - congrats to your girl on her National Guard choice. It can't be easy to have her gone. My oldest stepson is considering AF or Army ROTC scholarship or simultaneous membership program (Reserves or Guard AND ROTC) and we're excited for him. My husband enlisted 24 years ago (got out for commission four of those years) and it's been a really great experience for us. I'm sorry you spend so much time closeted in the house - I hate that, and it's a huge reason that I've struggled with depression at various points. Constantly moving doesn't allow me to really pursue a job outside the home (or at least not easily) and having young kids means I spend my day in the house most of the time. It's hard to socialize, I don't really want to socialize with other moms and if you add in a dreary rainy week on top of being stuck in the house I get pretty blue. It's one reason I cook and bake so much. I genuinely enjoy it, I can do it with my kids and it helps the time pass more quickly. I spent a very unhappy year in Mannheim, Germany when the twins were at a really tough age and I swear the sun made an appearance once a month. And I'd say NO WAY are you old enough but my hubs is only 40 and his oldest just turned 23 the other day, so I know it happens. Hell, I'm 32 and my mom turns 50 next month - she was barely 17 when she had me. Normal day for me - scale bounced back to where it had been, which is a huge relief. I'm at 141 again hoping to stay there tomorrow, too, so I can record it for the week. If that sticks, I'm down 2.4 this week. That brings my grand total so far to four weeks and just over 8 pounds down. That's amazing results for me, even if I sometimes feel like I'm plodding along. Hope everyone is doing well. I feel like I spend all my time cooking. Last night was gyros, fresh pitas, tzatziki (of course!), chickpea salad and Greek salad. This morning I made crepes with several different fillings and turkey sausage/bacon for everyone. I have ten in the house right now, plus the baby. Yikes! In a few hours I'll get started on tonight's dinner. Thank goodness for dishwashers. ~Cheri

My step kids do crazy decoupages and hang them all over their walls so I actually think those are kinda cool. Disturbing, maybe, but definitely cool. Confession time: first time since starting 5:2 that I went totally off the rails and ruined a fast day. My head just wasn't there today and I couldn't do it. Totally head hunger and stress, so it's not like I'm starving or something. I'm somewhere between a fast day and a regular day (860 calories) so I'm not really sure what to do. I'm not hungry at all so I'll probably call it quits on the food for the day and give the fast another shot on Saturday. Tomorrow is my busy big meal day so it would be a tough day to fast. Besides, I'm doing a big Greek dinner and would never succeed at skipping this one, especially with fresh pitas! So, feeling a bit down but also feeling kinda what the hell about it all. I'm definitely losing steam here - I hope the scale is kind tomorrow, or I'm going to have to have hubs hide it again because that bounce on top of everything else clearly ruined my day. Hope everyone else did better than me! I'm off for bedtime snuggles with the twins. ~Cheri

Oh, totally gross so if you're eating don't look at my pictures! But hey, remember that hair loss I was talking about? I cleaned my brush and the shower drain beforehand - this is the hair I lost between my shower and gently combing my hair afterward yesterday. This has been a pretty much daily thing for the past week or two. It doesn't count all the stray hair I'm finding around the house, on my pillow, in the car, on the floor of the bathroom, etc. either. Yowza! It better slow down soon, or I'm going to be wearing hats like my husband. ~Cheri

Today's fast menu: vanilla Protein coffee: 120 calories Tuna salad (no crackers or bread): 115 calories chicken (leftover from sweet and sour chicken - no sauce, 5 pieces or 2.5 oz): 140 calories Salad: 40 calories chocolate protein shake: 100 calories Total: 530 calories