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One, OP can't point fingers or she'll get locked and possibly blocked, so for anyone that's wondering, that's why it's vague. Second, it's a forum. Everyone is mostly anonymous. We all have opinions and we all have different ways of expressing them. This comes up pretty frequently. Truth is, what's harsh and critical to one person is the swift kick in the pants another person is grateful to receive. You can't know what people expect when they post and you can't know what people intend when they reply. I've only run across one or two genuinely malicious posts here, ever. Even the person trying to give someone the blunt truth isn't doing it to be hateful, judgmental or cruel - they're trying to help someone. Sometimes it's less than helpful. But you can't read intent from typed words, and trying to will drive everyone crazy. Third, yes, there is a definitely difference in how you view things and approach them the longer you're here. It doesn't make you an expert. I don't see anyone here proclaiming that they know the only right way to do this and anyone else that doesn't do it their way is stupid and doomed to failure. Well, I have seen one person but she shall remain nameless. I just avoid her posts and secretly cringe when she likes anything I post. No harm. Even people that have criticized me for being too harsh or too quick to complain have later admitted that maybe I might have a point, sometimes, about things that bother me here. People take things entirely too personally. This is a public forum full of people from around the world. I also saw a recent post that annoyed me along the same idea - that somehow it's "bullying" to express an opinion other than cheerful sunshine about anything or to chastise anyone, ever, at any time and in any way. B.S. This place is even more protected than the real world. Out there? Guess what? Hypercritical and mean people abound and they're not typing at me from behind a screen, they're being judgmental in my face. This is a safer place. Let's not sanitize it entirely and take away any personality whatsoever. Part of what makes it such a useful place is that you get differing opinions and stances. We're all individual and that doesn't only apply to the pace at which we lose weight. It also applies to what motivates us and how we deal with things. You have a choice to let things bother you or let them roll off your back. I see plenty of things here I'd love to chime in about but it's not productive or helpful, so I abstain. I used to let it all get to me. Now I just avoid what I don't care for and I'm happier. ~Cheri

I appreciate this post. I am not entirely sure where I stand but I'm a believer of something - just not entirely sure what it is. Growing up in a house that was half Jewish guilt and half Southern Baptist surety that they had the only way to heaven was incredibly confusing for me as a child. My mom converted to Christianity when I was a young girl and the religious tensions at family gatherings were the stuff movies are made of - her grandparents were survivors from Poland. I don't really invest a lot of time in religion at all - and am almost entirely opposed to any formal or structured practice at all. OTOH, I remember how confusing it was for me to hear conflicting views of what's right as a kid, so I have compromised with my incredibly Jewish husband and allow our kids to be raised "Jewish" but that's, you know, American Jewish, as in, totally assimilated and lacking a formal education. I don't know. It bothers me at times, because I don't much like religion. And deep down, I know my kids aren't going to care much about it later, anyway, because unless you're growing up in a fundamental household or you go out and catch religion on your Taglit trip you're pretty much Jewish by bloodline and nothing else. I think being Jewish is more complicated than it is for being Christian because it's not a choice. Does that make sense? Anyway, I think the biggest issue many people have on both sides of the fence is the ability to be accepting. I have just as many "in your face, I must make you realize your beliefs are stupid" atheist acquaintances as "I must convert you to save you" Christian ones. Nobody Jewish or Muslim in my life is proselytizing like those other two groups, so I can't comment there. I get the eye rolls about what a "bad Jew" I am, but I'm still Jewish even if I never go to shul, eat bacon and have tattoos. See above - I mean, being Jewish is pretty complicated. But hubs and I recently discussed this because we're military - and if you're not aware there are a lot of rumblings from both sides. We fully support the push to completely separate religion and the military and would love to see the Chaplain corps disbanded entirely. It's unfair to represent part of the troops and provide them additional counseling/support and deny it to others. It has no place in government and the military is government. I think that if you're different in any way - a non believer, a wiccan, undecided, or just not Christian (i.e. Muslim or Jewish) - that life in America is a totally different experience. You have no idea (or maybe you do) how many times I've run up against this idea that it's just a given that of course you're Christian. Of course you are. I mean, you might be a different (i.e. "wrong") Christian, but you're still Christian. It's an assumption. I don't get my hackles up when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas. It's not the idea that they wished me a happy holiday that I don't Celebrate that bothers me. It's the ASSUMPTION that OF COURSE I celebrate it, why wouldn't I? I mean, if I'm not Christian, I should fix that defect and be one, because who wouldn't choose to be one? Does that make any sense? We run up against it in the military ALL THE TIME. Interfaith prayer meetings where the only speakers pray to Jesus. Non-optional "Holiday" parties with Christmas trees and Santa and mandatory caroling. I'm not making these up. My husband sat in on a meeting where a post Chaplain used his time to speak to tell us how all his friends who died in Vietnam died because they didn't believe in Jesus. And there's now something called "spiritual fitness" that is used to assess risk in servicemembers. Not having faith is actually considered a suicide risk - like believing in God makes people less damaged when they fight these stupid wars? Really? Well, if religion is all it takes, let's pass out pills to all the masses and we'll be "saved together!" That's what gets me. I don't need to see a religious symbol for every group in the town hall's display each year - it's ridiculous. I'd rather that the town hall accept that it has no place celebrating any religiously affiliated holiday because it's an entity, not a person. If people want to celebrate that's great and more power to them. It's when we cross that line and groups or organizations that really have no business doing it try to represent a particular set of beliefs that we wind up in territory like this - with competing symbols to prove a point. I don't want my local store to put up a Hanukkah decoration to make me feel better. I want them to not put up a display at all and leave the celebrations for people to enjoy privately to in their homes. I want them to accept that just because there's a majority in this country that does not mean they get to disregard everyone else. And the answer, for me at least, is certainly not making half-assed attempts to represent everyone with a kinara and a hanukkiah! ~Cheri

Stalls happen and I agree that it's challenging to remain optimistic when they drag on, but they are a part of the process for most of us. I had two nine week stalls. The queen of all stalls is still coops - 21 MONTHS of her doing the same good things and not a ounce of loss. She did lose two sizes during that time and did eventually break through and is on her way to goal. The best way to avoid the discouragement - something I face, too, trying to lose baby pounds - is to just accept that you will not see a loss every time you step on the scale. Sometimes it even goes up - I gain after any strenuous workout and I also gain about four pounds during my cycle. If I don't sleep well for a period of time? I gain, and I absolutely don't lose until I'm well rested again. Long story short, there are about a million tiny little ways for your weight to be affected by what else is going on in your life besides diet. Stress, hormones, lack of sleep, etc. all contribute to the ups and downs we experience. You know that you are going to lose weight. The issue here is that you want instant gratification and reassurance that your hard work is paying off. Sometimes that's slower coming than we'd like! Hang in there. Really. Don't quit. No offense, but you can't get over this, get mad and quit - you had a major operation to remove most of your stomach. The only way to the end is forward, no matter how slowly you plod there. Rest assured that you aren't alone. You are in good company, in fact! Stop reading the "I lost seventy two pounds in five minutes!" posts and you'll feel better. Seek out other slower losers or commiserate with other people in a stall right now. Above all else, keep doing what you're doing. Eventually you will see the reward for your hard work both on the scale and in the mirror. ~Cheri

Gonna try IF now just so you can check that stubborn box? ~Cheri

Congrats! I finally (with IF - 5:2) dropped the last of my pregnancy pounds and am happily in my maintenance window again. It's slow going towards the end to shed those last pounds no matter what method you use, but the IF is an ideal way to transition into maintenance, in my opinion. The easiest part of maintenance for me (prior to baby) was my weight. I simply committed to daily weighing and ate something like a less structured 6:1 program and I had absolutely no problems staying within my window, adjusting with something like a fast day when I hit the top end of it, of course. Enjoy it, just a little farther to go! ~Cheri

Oooh, houndstooth. I can't wait for fall, when I can break out the dark colors and houndstooth pencil skirt that are currently in storage. Looks lovely, and yeah...some gals have all the luck? My tops don't fill out nearly as much as they used to, and not without help, in any case. ~Cheri

So, fasted yesterday. Went a little over but logging 570 is fine. I'm always reluctant to trust my weight until I've seen it for a few days but it appears that I'm finally down that one pound I've been bouncing up and down with - I keep rocking between 141-142 and now appear to be solidly 141 pounds, which is nice. It's the top end of my maintenance window, so it's all bonus from here. I'm still going to hang with the 5:2 program, of course, but since it took a while to get back here I don't expect anything to happen quickly. Went to the doctor yesterday, and entirely frustrating undertaking if you've ever received care in a military hospital. After much insistence I was able to get some blood work done so we'll see what comes of that re: vitamin levels, my thyroid and the hair loss. No relief on the endometriosis front - something that's causing me daily pain now. The typical go-to answer in military hospitals is to take some Motrin and water. I pretty much got that response. Here's another scrip for birth control, have a nice day. But after an hour waiting for blood draws at the lab and then another hour at the pharmacy just to put in my scrip I left when they told me it'd be another hour to get my birth control. Which I don't really want to take, anyway. So I left and once my labs come back and the doctor puts in whatever supplements I'm going to need I'll go pick it all up at once. I wish I had more control over my health care, like the option to change practices or something. I can change, don't get me wrong, but you're just changing to more of the same. In any case, my last house guest leaves tomorrow, hurrah! I'm absolutely ready for my house and routine to be back to normal. My twins start school in a few weeks so I want to enjoy their last bit of time where they're home all day with me. Other than that, things are going okay. I'm a little grumpy but that's due to many days of overcast gloom in a row plus a baby that hasn't slept well the last two nights. You know that stage where they need their pacifier to sleep but aren't quite coordinated enough to stuff it back in when it falls out? Yeah, we're there. She's lucky she's so cute or we'd trade her in on a self-sufficient cat. Take care gals, hope everyone has a great Tuesday. ~Cheri

Dang, it's no win all around for you right now. Hope the meds get you to feeling better sooner rather than later. ~Cheri

No, it's the hulls that are a problem with popcorn. The only reason to worry about any food that could be a potential slider (read: crunchy Snacks and treats or smooth treats like ice cream) is if you're going to abuse it or lean on it in times of stress or boredom. If that's the case, worry. When you start to need that treat it's a problem. When you can take it or leave it you're fine. And the only reason I eat popcorn is movie night. Can't have movie night (or movie theater dates with the hubs, for that matter) without popcorn! Food associations die hard, and I've been conditioned to fully believe that flicks go best with salty, buttery popcorn and a cold soda. ~Cheri

Thanks for the update! Some of us take longer to get to goal. Some people consider themselves slow losers but really aren't - there is a group of us on the vets forum more than two years out and still trying to shed a few, so please don't feel discouraged by the slower pace your body has set. Additionally, my body has those happy weights - you know, those weights were you've been stuck before (and quit whatever diet you were on) because your body just loves to hang there and the scale won't budge no matter what you do? Don't be surprised if breaking out of the 200s is a fight. I was always stalled out for weeks on end at my previous happy weights but once the stalls broke I was treated to a nice big loss on the scale (for me, anyway, because four pounds in a month is big time for me!) so hang in there and know going in that it's likely going to be a challenge to get below a weight you haven't seen in a while. Best of luck, and keep on going! It doesn't mean anything if it takes you longer than a year, or eighteen months to reach goal. I know we all want it faster than that, but the truth is that getting there and staying there really is what matters and your sleeve will work just as well farther out as it did new. It's not just a trite phrase to reassure you - it's the honest truth. ~Cheri

Not until several months out, at least. Be careful with it, though, it's a slider food. For me it's a trigger and a slider, and I can eat it in large quantities with no real issues (and want to wash it down with soda, go figure) and once I start indulging in it more than once in a while I want it every day. Go as healthy as you can with it to minimize it...and quite honestly, popping my own on the stovetop and going very light on the butter and salt makes me eat less, too. It's just not as tasty that way! ~Cheri

I was back at 'em far sooner, so yeah, so long as you listen to your body I'll bet you're ready to go. Congrats on your new sleeve and have fun! ~Cheri

Great discussion on it here: http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/86516-average-loss-with-the-sleeve-is-60-of-excess-weight/page__hl__nicolanz#entry896618 Many doctors only track their patients for the first year post op. A huge number of us finish our loss in our second or third years post op. The big push from many surgeons seems to be to reach goal in under a year. On a side note, this also is part of the cause that so many people feel there is an "expiration date" on their sleeve and that it has a magic off switch that stops it from working at some point. Not true. In any case, I hadn't reached goal at one year out. By that point I had reached 85% EWL. I have said before and maintain that there is nothing stopping you, short of your body's own limits, from achieving 100% EWL if you so choose. The sleeve doesn't come with an expiration date and my sleeve at three years post op is just as effective at controlling my intake as it was early on. The real issue is that the required headwork must be done in order to remain a success, but that's a different story. Furthermore, still being obese is different than still being morbidly obese and likely to continue gaining weight. Even if the worst case scenario of 50-60% EWL is all you achieved, maintaining that loss would be a tremendous improvement on your health and likely on your lifespan. I am 5'1" and currently weigh 142 pounds and am overweight according to the BMI chart. Nobody is calling me overweight but the chart, I promise you. Even when I finally shed the last seven baby pounds back to my goal weight, I'll still be right on the line for overweight. Tell that to my size six/small pants. Would I love to be in the 120s? Sure, why not? But I'm not - I'm the size I wanted and I weigh ten-fifteen pounds more than I'd like (at goal). So what. I also don't have diabetes or high blood pressure anymore. So still being obese but being half the size you are now? Well worth the risk, in my opinion. The sleeve does not work miracles. If you want more than a moderate loss, you have to not only work for it, but change your habits and lifestyle enough that you can keep that loss off for the long run. ~Cheri

You should start eating some of your Protein once you're on soft foods but shakes will remain a part of your life for a long while. I'm three years out and while I no longer need a shake to hit my goals, I enjoy drinking one to boost my protein. It also frees me to eat a larger variety of foods with my meals, instead of just dense protein. So my suggestion, other than finding some nice protein-rich soft foods (cottage cheese was my go-to until lactose intolerance got me) is to experiment and find a shake you actually enjoy. I have changed up my protein several times in the last three years but the only line of protein to make it this whole time is the Syntrax Nectar line. Look for a sample pack of them online and see if you enjoy them more than the unjury. I can't mix with milk so I really love that if I'm in a hurry, all of the Nectars (except vanilla bean torte!) taste good mixed with plain Water. No joke - not tolerable mixed with water, but taste good. Even my hubs, who has despised every single protein I've used over the years will drink the chocolate one mixed with water. He says it tastes like Yoo-Hoo. I also "double up" my protein once in a while by doing two scoops in 1.5 times the amount of liquid. You'll read conflicting accounts of whether or not this works. Some people cite studies showing we can't absorb more than 30g of protein at a time, and others cite studies disproving that. It's up to you and what you're comfortable doing. Good luck! ~Cheri

More important than the Protein count per scoop is finding something you actually enjoy drinking and will be able to drink on a daily basis for a long time! It does you no good to worry about the bang for your buck, so to speak, if you have to force yourself to consume your drink. I switched up my "favorite" protein about six times over the last three years. As a matter of course, I typically avoid no-fat, artificial sweetener products, but the only protein that has made it from day one to now is the Syntrax nectar line. I still drink about one a day and I'm still not sick of them. The huge variety of flavors is great, too, so if I do hit a point where I get bored I have plenty of different options to switch it up. It's possible to get a sample pack of them from BJs Bariatrics if you want to try them but don't want to invest in big tubs. ~Cheri

This is about the time when it happens, as you close in on goal. The sleeve fixes your portion size and only if you stick to dense Protein, at that! It doesn't change any of those old habits or comforts and it's a darn shame it will never stop those junky slider foods from going down so easily. Now's the time to really get active here on VST and seek out threads (reboot some old ones or make your own!) about what you're struggling with - because you're definitely not alone. It's also harder to stay really tip-top motivated as the weight comes off more slowly. You see less of a return for your hard work, and it becomes easier to justify poor choices. Hang in there. If you're still on that super strict low carb diet so many use to lose early on, you might consider slowly shifting it into something more like you'd eat in maintenance. Everyone is different and what your body will tolerate isn't the same as what works for me, but I definitely felt less pressure and less desire to binge/graze when I upped my carb intake and started eating a more varied diet. I even went back onto a daily Protein shake at that point - not only to boost my protein intake, but also to allow me the room to eat a larger variety of foods. Best of luck, and hang in there! You will definitely experience a slowdown here - we all do - so don't let that discourage you too much. ~Cheri

Sounds like my husband - 5'7" and anywhere from 155-165 depending on how active he is for work. He even got down to 140 pounds after a deployment once - yikes! Now I let him pick me up and carry me around but before I was worried I'd break his back! Ladies, I'm currently down 7 pounds since starting - low point was 8 down - and have been stuck for a little while. No worries. It's not a true stall yet and I used to stall a lot. If I average it out, I'm losing just a hair over one pound a week. Assuming I don't clock a loss tomorrow, that is. I don't expect to. A pound a week is generous for my body even if seeing up and down 4 tenths of a pound is making me feel frustrated. I have seven more to goal, but would really love to see twelve come off. We'll see if that happens. It will probably take until next summer! ~Cheri

I'm here! I've been doing 5:2 since on/around 23 June and am down 7 pounds from that time. At one point, I was down 8 but have been stuck between 7-8 pounds down total for the past three weeks. I have seen lower numbers but keep bouncing back up into this range, which is clearly a happy weight for my stubborn body. Seven more to go to be at my original goal of 135 pounds (which, sadly, is still top end of the stupid BMI for me...) and hoping I'll make it there by my birthday in November. And FYE, M2G and Supersweetums all look fabulous in your new photos! ~Cheri

Nope, weight loss doesn't stop if you don't stop. Very few people hit a wall where they just can't lose and I while I'm no expert I am willing to say that in all the cases I've seen there are other factors there - something hormonal, extreme stress or illness. Or all three in one case I can think of! Sometimes the stalls are long and painful (see: coops) but your sleeve is about the size now that it was at one year out. So returning to a dense protein diet and tracking what you eat will yield results, no matter how far out you are (given enough time, of course). I'm three years out and working to shed just seven more pounds from my pregnancy. Is it slow going? Oh yeah. Painfully slow. But the sleeve still restricts me and I still lose, even if it's not at the rate I'd like. And I am not alone in being a few years out and trying to shed a few pounds, so I know it's possible. Good luck. Your sleeve will work for you and there's nothing stopping you from getting down to your goal but you. ~Cheri

The only things that have changed are my tastes and my tolerance - so I don't like beer much anymore but I used to really be a beer drinker. I can handle pints of Guinness once in a while, but that's it. I cannot finish a regular beer anymore because I just don't like the taste. I also get drunk much faster, of course. I have to be careful because I can go from zero to wasted in a few sips, skipping over tipsy entirely if the drink is strong enough. Of course, we also get over the alcohol faster. Carbonation usually doesn't bother me. I highly, highly recommend you avoid doing any shots when people inevitably offer to buy them for you. At two years out I lived overseas in a country where it was expected of me (former Soviet Union = vodka, vodka, vodka) and just one is enough to mess me up where I have to sit still until the alcohol is gone. I am not a doctor, but I would say it is downright dangerous to engage in the typical 21st birthday behavior (at least the way I behaved on my 21st) and do shot after shot. You could make yourself incredibly ill, so be very careful. Since you're already aware of transfer addictions and already aware that you won't be making a sound choice I'm not going to lecture you. You know this isn't a great choice to make but if you're going to do it anyway, try to be smart about it. Don't let it become a habit and sip one or two drinks all night. Remember to pay attention to your body and if something bothers your system, stop what you're doing. Enjoy your birthday, ~Cheri

There's a bit of discussion going on the FB page Joia set up, so please join if you're able. We're talking about doing a public meeting later this month at a restaurant in MD. From that point onward, we'll allow people to rotate hosting however they choose and a variety of locations is definitely a great idea. I've particularly enjoyed your contributions to VST so far, so I hope that you can make an in person meeting! ~Cheri

Yes. There's a fabulous thread in the Vets forum where we discussed the whole "what now?" question. The shift to maintenance isn't that difficult if you're already eating a moderate diet. You add in some calories and you weigh as frequently as you need to in order to remain accountable. Then you live your life. You still have to remember that you were obese and you still have to watch your habits. My biggest maintenance issues weren't ever about actually maintaining my weight. I was able to do that pretty effortlessly with daily weighing and small adjustments to my diet as needed. It was realizing that (for me, at least) the weight loss made me happy, but it didn't make me a happy person. Does that make sense? I had a lot of issues and the obesity was a symptom of those problems, so once I hit goal I really kind of expected to just "be happy" but it still took work. I still had to deal with whatever was making me unhappy and resolve those issues. My weight was a distraction, an easy target and scapegoat for all that ailed me. But the answer wasn't so simple as just "lose weight, be happy." In any case, watch your habits and behavior. Weigh daily to stay accountable. Track your food when necessary. Learn how to eat more normally, without going off the rails. And most importantly, enjoy this. You worked hard to achieve your goal and you succeeded. No matter what else bothers you or upsets you always remember that and be proud of this accomplishment. ~Cheri

And here: http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/89860-does-everybody-lose-hair/

It wouldn't matter if they had. Don't do it. You don't need validation that other people have done this, too - if they did, they were wrong, too. Follow your surgeon's guidelines. They are there for a reason. If you can't adhere to a post operative diet for a few weeks, you will have real issues down the road, so I suggest you look for some local support in the form of a group or personal counselor. The hard part of this process is not losing the weight - it's dealing with the relationships we have with food and how we use food in ways that "healthy" people do not. There were other options to "get rid of that taste" and you went for the foods you should be avoiding right now (and until you're well into loss, I'd add) so I'd take a look at that behavior and work on it. One (or two, or three) slips are not the end of the world, but your sleeve needs to heal, first and foremost. We don't have to be perfect, but we do need to be cautious and make smart choices. Don't be the poster one year from now frustrated with yourself because you haven't lost much weight due to the fact that you didn't work your sleeve and started eating around it as soon as you healed. Don't go down this path. ~Cheri

That is Elisheva, sometimes called Ellie and sometimes Shevi. She's my littlest doll baby. And I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It's the little things that remind us. Every time I'm out with the fam and notice a butterfly flitting about near us I feel the same soothing - I started to notice butterflies after my daughter died in '99 and ever since I take them as happy little reminders that I had time with her. And now I have them tattooed all over me, so go figure! Glad to hear they'll enjoy it. Seriously, if I had kids that enjoyed being outdoors I'd feel much happier, I think. My kids like indoor activities like crafts, reading, games (video and board) and baking. So we spend a great deal of time indoors. Whenever we venture out my kids complain. My son doesn't like to move around much (lazy bones skinny thing!) and my daughter does really enjoy running around and being active but she doesn't perspire very much, so she quite frequently gets overheated and very uncomfortable. It makes her frustrated that I have to keep calling her into the shade and have her drink water and she hates that I make her wear a hat and clothes to shield her skin from the sun. You'd think the gloomy weather here would mean more time outdoors but the humidity kills her. Ugh. ~Cheri