WASaBubbleButt

Hi Michelle,

I just love the way you have shared your information and always been there to help people. You have so much knowledge that we ALL have benefited from. You tell it like it is. No candy coating and so many of us needed to hear it that way. What an inspiration you have been for me. I feel like a whole new woman, and I love my life. Thanks for being there when I needed and you were right! Everyone does turn out ok, but we all need to learn that we have to take care of ourselves first! Put yourself first always and then you can take care of the other things you want to take care of in life.

Take care,

Thanks, Suzanne, you are always so sweet. I know of a lot of people that wish I was more like you. HA!

Wow, it's been such a long road to tow! I have been morbidly obeise for many years. More than 30. I was always afraid to have any surgery but am so greatful that I finally found such a tremendous surgeon as Dr. Aceves, in Mexicali.!!!!!! Yes I have not had it perfect, there have had to be many changes in my eating habits. I was smart though and started these changes in Nov. of 2008. I actually lost about 150 lbs and lowered my BMI nearly 50% before I had the surgery. Was still hard to do but worth every agonizing minute. Thank the Lord that Dr. Aceves agreed even then to do the surgery. I came through with flying colors though. Never had a leak or any insicion problems so am also greatful for that. Now for some more great news from 2/17/09 to 5/19/02 from surgery date to 1st Dr. visit for followup I lost another 115 lbs. I really do eat better than I think I ever did in my whole life. Still have some problems with keeping food down all the time. But this gets more and more rare with time. I never deny myself anything I want!!!! Just really smart about amounts and how often.

I even went to costco (bulk food warehouse club place) ate lunch at the samples they supply Ha Ha only had about 8 total but was completely full and loved every minute of it.

I have even been to Mcdonalds since the surgery it's really great Used to eat 2 Double Quarter Pounders now only eat about 1/2 of a reg. burger with no cheese and no fries how cool is that. They don't even taste good anymore. I love this.

Have found a new love of vegetables especially cherry and grape tomatoes carry them in my pocket for Snacks while I'm gardening.

I can not only bend over without falling now I can put my palms flat on the ground in front of me. I can get up off the ground by myself get on a regular Dr. scale without additional weights being put on that is super great!!! means I no longer weigh over 350 WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I can clip my own toenails and sorry wipe my own Bu__! makes me happy these little things. I have had very little pain in my lower back (fractured tail bone) actually walked around for about 1/2 hr at Walmart (concrete floors and all) always road one of those carts.

Have lost 4 sizes went from a 5x to 1x that for me is a big deal. I have been in xlg for nearly 30 years. Can't wait for new clothes still sewing but not too much doing more things like movies (can sit in the seats now).

I know this is long but hope that it will help someone make a really tough decision. Dr. Aceves is the greatest I thanked him before I left for saving my life and he wouldn't take the credit said that God did the saving! So credit or not if he did not have his faith and skill I might be a real gonner by now.

If anyone want's to talk or chat feel free to contact me either here or at Dragonhart52@aol.com I'll be glad to give you more details will post some before and after pics as soon as I figure out how to get them from my phone to the web LOL

Fantastic story! Welcome to the forum. You are a huge inspiration to all of us, please keep posting!

And no more fills.....being poked....too much fill....too little fill....what a relief!

How are all the revisions doing with weight loss now that you can eat things you couldn't with the band?

I am at a total standstill....I lost 15 imediately after the revision, but have gained it back and not losing anymore. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Nancy

How far are you post op? What is your diet like? What is your exercise routine?

I would like to make yet another attempt to clear up the incorrect information that has been posted on this and the lap band talk board. There have been many outlandish statements made with absolutely not an ounce of truth nor documentation to show any possibility that these accusations could be possible.

Statements were made the Dr. Andres Betancourt was arrested and/or convicted of insurance fraud. He was NOT. This is completely untrue. Below is the article showing the event that was mentioned and the doctors that were involved. There is no mention of Dr. Betancourt in this link.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20030410-9999_1m10fraud.html

Statements were made that Dr. Betancourt had is license revoked. This is completely untrue. Here is a copy of his current, valid license. I have heard that there is another doctor with the name Betancourt that resides and was licensed in California that had his licensed revoked. Dr. Betancourt of Emmanuel Medical was NEVER licensed in California. He is only licensed in Mexico. At best, this is a case of mistaken identity.

http://www.lapbandtalk.com/attachments/f11/17218d1247096452-mylapbandsurgery-com-betancourt-medical-center-emmanuel-certification.jpg

There have been claims that Dr. Almanza doesn’t use the Allergan band. Here is his Allergan certification.

[ATTACH]19[/ATTACH]

Statements were made that the hospital (Emmanuel Medical Center) is unlicensed. This is untrue. Here is a copy of that license. Some have speculated the reason for the name change of the facility from Betancourt Medical to Emmanuel Medical Center. Again, someone’s opinion based on nothing! By the way, you can also find this and all of these, Dr. Almanza’s and other credentials on the website of www.MexicoWeightLossSurgery.com. The documents can be viewed by anyone at any time.

http://www.lapbandtalk.com/attachments/f11/17219d1247096812-mylapbandsurgery-com-betancourt-medical-center-betancourt-license.pdf

Emmanuel medical center has never had a case of MERSA either. All staff on duty is licensed and available. Patients are not left to “recover” alone in a hotel room. Just like all the other doctors, patients are released to finish their recovery after spending the proper time in the hospital (up to 12 hours for lap band, 2 – 3 days for sleeve gastrectomy and 3 days for bypass). Unlike some other surgeons, Dr. Almanza has an emergency plan in place for any emergency that may arise.

A statement was made that a patient fell off the operating table during surgery. That is impossible as patients are strapped down during surgery. Even if the table were to be turned upside down, a person couldn’t fall off!

Statements were made that Dr. Almanza has had many deaths and complications. Who, where, when? Dr. Almanza and Emmanuel Medical Center have not had any deaths. Yes, there have been an acceptable number of complications. All surgery comes with risk. It was stated that “there have been many deaths and complications”, then it was stated “They claim no complications”. Which is it? I guess we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Do you know how many complications and deaths other surgeons have had? You would be surprised at who and how many!

The people making these statements have been asked time and again to post documentation or proof of their claims. They NEVER have, because it doesn’t exist. It has also been claimed that certain persons were “Asked by Alex” (the owner of this board) to post information to let people know how to choose surgeons and/or educate them in some way. Alex has claimed to me that he has NEVER asked anyone to post anything.

There has been much reference to “Many horror stories”. Where are they? Where are the patients that actually had it happen? All we see here are references to, “I heard, someone said, I talked to someone that had a complication, someone told me”, etc. For someone that has been in this business for about 14 years, you would think there would be lots of documentation if this were true.

Every time a post operative patient of Dr. Almanza posts on this board about the positive experience they had, they are accused of being a “paid poster” they are made fun of and usually, eventually banned from this board. You have tried to justify this by claiming that someone admitted to being a paid poster for Dr. Almanza. Who? Why has this person not made an admission herself on this board? Because this also is untrue!

I realize that there is much competition in this business and that others are losing money because our business is able to offer high quality care and safety at a very affordable price. It’s a shame that the only way others have found to compete is to try to discredit our business.

It has been said that it is impossible to offer such low prices without cutting corners. The peso has gone down (a lot!), the economy is struggling, causing reduced profits, together with the fact that this company owns its own facility and is a medical supply company which buys in very large quantities at a lesser price and in fact supplies other facilities. All this allows us to offer very competitive pricing.

What is truly sad is that many people need weight loss surgery, struggle to afford it and are suffering. Unfortunately, they have people like some on this board try to scare them by making untrue accusations based on nothing, all in an attempt to sway people to pay more to another doctor where, I believe, they are receiving a referral fee. I base this statement on MY educated opinion that no one would spend as much time, as some here are doing, making it their mission to discredit some doctors and promote others unless they were getting something out of it. Who has that kind of time?

I have made numerous attempts and offers to speak with people that have made these wild statements to find out why they are doing this, and have offered to provide the proof that the statements are untrue. No one has agreed to talk to me. I can only conclude that they have another agenda. I will no longer sit back and allow this untrue, libelous information be posted unchallenged. If you’re going to post something as fact, also post documentation to substantiate your claim or state it as what it is…an opinion with no fact basis!

If anyone reading this would like to ask me any questions, you are welcome to contact me at any time toll free at 800-935-6710, direct at 916-647-9501 or you can email me at Sandy@aLighterMe.com

Sandy Johnston

MexicoWeightLossSurgery.com

800-935-6710

You know, I've been trying to decide if I wanted to respond to your post point by point because you have a great deal of misinformation here. Such as claims that Almanza is not Allergan certified or uses Inamed bands. That was not the issue, the issue was that a very poor quality band is/was (?) also offered. The worst band on the market.

Nobody claimed Almanza has a lot of complications, that was not the discussion. The discussion was that another coordinator (just as of a couple of weeks ago) claims Almanza has NEVER had a complication and that's total bull so we really don't have the slightest idea what his stats are because our posters are not getting the truth when they call the "clinic". I even suggested that complications are part of surgery and no surgeon can have a complication free career, I was defending Almanza. So you are seriously manipulating discussions here to push your doctor. I can provide links to those complications and discussion of the complications if need be to show your actual motives here.

Your clinic is not a hospital, it is a CLINIC! By US standards you know darn well it is a clinic. Isn't it a small, older home that was converted into a clinic? Does it have a heart center? Blood bank? RPh on staff? ICU? CCU? Radiology dept w/CT equipment, etc? Emergency Department? To run around letting everyone think it is a hospital is misleading.

I could refute your entire post point by point but you know the truth is, it doesn't matter. You are bringing your dirty laundry over here and posing as a victim. It isn't going to work. If you have problems with posts written on LBT, keep it on LBT. We do not want to play these games over here.

I am going to close this thread, it has nothing to do with VST, it has nothing to do with sleeve topics, and we just aren't going to play these games. If you have a problem with posts on LBT, keep it on LBT. It does not pertain to this forum.

Has anyone had a Thiamine (B1) or B12 deficiency since your surgery? I went in for a follow up and my surgeon checked some labs because I have been so fatigued. Turns out I have these and a Vit D deficiency (so who doesn't have a VitD deficiency in the Northeast) LOL. Lola:wink2:

Vitamin deficiencies are very common in obese people, most of us didn't have a great diet before surgery.

Vit D deficiency ... that is very common in WLS patients as a whole.

Hey everyone. I don't post much (or ever?), but I have lurked here off and on for a while. Truth be told, I could never remember my sign on name/password when I felt inclined to post...so I never did. LOL

Just wanted to chime in and let ya'll know that I had my band removed on 6/30 after over 7 years with it. Bittersweet for me, but absolutely necessary.

Long story short- I tried. In the first year I lost 60 pounds (which was 20 pounds from my goal), but I did that mostly out of pure will power and fear. I was terrified to test the limits of my band because I was self pay and didn't have a very good or convenient follow up doc. The closest band surgeon who would see me was about 3 hours one way and either $200 or $600 (depending on fluoro). My trouble began when I decided to actually put my BAND to work and start getting fills. I had (gosh that's weird to say) the larger 9cm (11cc) band and turns out it was very tricky to get the right fill level. I teetered between too tight and too lose and going broke for about 2 years.

Then I decided about 4 years ago to have my band completely emptied. I needed time to reevaluate and let things calm down in my poor tummy. The problems got worse, the vomiting (pbing) got worse and I was not losing a single pound no matter what I did. I had a fill doc, but not a real "follow up" doc....if that makes sense.

I did give up for a couple of years and put weight loss on the back burner, figuring it would be there for me when I was ready to focus more on it. I got married, bought a house and tried several times to refocus on making the band work. But it seemed the more I tried and the more tests/fills/follow up I received the worse things got. In those 7 years I had 3 endoscopies, a couple of upper GI's and I think about 8-10 fills/unfills. I probably spent a good $2000 on trying to make my band work (and about a gallon of barium and way too much radiation)... I just couldn't do it anymore. Even when it was "empty" I struggled with eating. The unpredictable nature of the band is the most frustrating part. One day I could eat chicken, the next I couldn't manage to get down Water. I could never tolerate rice, eggs, many fruits and so many vegetables. I was a much healthier eater BEFORE the band. I also was not lactose intolerant before the band and became so within the first year (could be coincidence, but I don't know). My food options were getting less and less as time went on and I felt my HEALTH was in jeopardy. I honestly felt like I was consuming the calories, but not the nutrients because most of what I ate came up and out.

I have seen the inside of every toilet at every restaurant I have ever eaten in and me and my toilets at home are very well acquainted. I can deal with the "side effects" of the band if I was actually losing weight. But alas, over the course of trying to make my band work I gained almost all of my 60 pounds back and still suffered....for no reason. I don't blame the band entirely, but it definitely did it's fair share of making things difficult for me.

Finally found a surgeon who would spend some time with me and ultimately (but very reluctantly) remove my band. He did determine my band had slipped slightly, but he also told me he thought my band (the 11cm) was a piece of crap. That sealed my decision to have it removed.

I am a week out from removal and only drinking liquids and eating mushies in small quantities. I imagine my stomach will take some time to heal after the 7 years of trauma I did to it.

I just have one question for those who have had their bands removed after a few years...

Did you forget how nice it was to burp from deep down? I am a belching machine since removal and it feels good to have a REAL productive BURP. I feel like I have had gas bubbles waiting to come out for 7 years. I honestly can't eat much without feeling gassy, bloated and full. I hope this is temporary, I just want to feel normal again!

Anyhooo,

I posed this for anyone who is researching or interested in how things can go wrong. I do not regret trying the band, I made a decision I thought was best for me. It didn't work out, but I learned a lot. I do regret the over $11,000 I spent on the band and now the only thing I have to show for it is a scarred up tummy. :tongue_smilie:

Best advice for anyone of you reading this....find a good surgeon who believes 100% in proper follow up! And be realistic about that follow up. Make sure you can afford it - time wise and financially. It's a long term investment. Oh and be prepared to never know meal to meal what you might not be able to eat. :frown:

OMG I could have written most of that! I soooo relate to knowing the inside of every toilet in every restaurant.

I was on liquids for 4 months before I finally couldn't take it anymore and revised to a sleeve.

I have to say, even with great follow up care (I had very good follow up care) I don't think the band is going to last anywhere near a lifetime in anyone. (

Hi there! I had mine removed because it was in my esophagus and causing major restriction. I had problems from 6 weeks on to 8 months. I felt weird at first, and then was scoped 8 weeks post op and now have a hiatus hernia. That is causing me grief now....relfux, and burning! Banding was the BIGGEST mistake of my life. I will never be normal again, no spices, no flavor to food, no enjoyment, no coffee the one thing I love most in the world!!! You have only had it for 5 weeks so I am assuming that you should be back to normal within a few weeks. Just need time for the swelling to come down. Why are you removing yours?

Get your hiatal hernia repaired (should have been done during your band removal) and the reflux will probably go away.

I her ya sista!! Gaviscon is my new best friend, along with pantoloc. I don't know what to say. I am sure you will be ok. You will just have to wait for the swelling to come down after surg. Get scoped as well, and go for a GI series to make sure there is no other damage! I suffered for 8 f'n months and u know I am so sorry I ever let myslef do this...esp in Mexico. I am a nurse, I am smarter than that. Oh well, I am trying to change my negativity from this experience. Can't focus on the past.....only hope for the best in the future!

The band sucks in the US, too. What does Mexico have to do with it? I'm a nurse too, and going to MX was the best thing I ever did. Getting a band was not one of my brighter moments but that has nothing to do with Mexico. Getting sleeved, that absolutely was one of my brightest moments. ;o)

I am far from perfect--I think I need an apostrophe in my thread title but I'm not going to go back & do it. Some spelling/grammar/usage is so bad that I simply cannot understand the post.

I'm not talking there,they're, their issues, I have no idea what you are trying to say issues.

Not a rant, just an observation

I fully expect this thread to fall and go away very quickly.

I get typos, I'm the queen of typos. But I'm seeing posts where people cannot spell 3 and 4 letter words. They aren't typos, they spell the same words repeatedly throughout their posts.

There is a person that her spelling and grammar are so bad I have no idea what she is trying to convey and she's a college student. How the heck did she get out of high school?

Jacqui, I have found out that what you say is true. People can't just eliminate an entire food group and think that it is healthy for the long haul. I also think that a lot of people hear the word "carbs" and they immediately think of starchy foods. Carbs are found in exceptionally healthy foods such as strawberries and blueberries I believe they have antioxidants), brocolli and green Beans, whole grains, etc. For someone to not eat foods like the ones I just mentioned is probably not what the creators of lap band had in mind. And as for those forbidden foods...well I have to agree again with you. If I want some chocolate, I will have it. But I will probably buy a Hershey bar when I am with somebody who will either eat the other half or cheer me on when I throw the other half in the garbage. We just have to remember that we all want to grow very old and be healthy, too. We cannot do that if we don't put healthy foods in our bodies everyday, and exercise too.

Who is suggesting cutting out a food group? Since when is flour and sugar a food group?

Here is a longer one...kinda makes my head hurt.

IS STARVATION MODE A MYTH? NO! STARVATION MODE IS VERY REAL AND HERE’S THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF

QUESTION:

Tom, I was wondering if you had seen the 6 part e-mail series sent out by [name deleted] from [website deleted]. if you look at the last part, he basically states that “starvation mode” is a bunch of crap made up in order to sell diet programs. He didn’t mention you, but it almost sounds like he’s talking about you specifically. How do you feel about this?

ANSWER:

Yes, I saw that article/email and the author is mistaken about starvation mode. In his article, he accused those of us who use the term “starvation mode” as being unscientific and he even says “dont buy diet books if they mention the starvation mode.” I’ll make it clear in a moment, that in this case, he is the one who doesn’t appear very well read in the scientific literature on the effects of starvation and low calorie diets.

I do have to point out first that the effects of starvation mode are indeed sometimes overblown. There are also myths about the starvation mode, like it will completely “shut down” your metabolism (doesn’t happen), or that if you miss one meal your metabolism will crash (doesn’t happen that fast, although your blood sugar and energy levels may dip and hunger may rise).

Another myth about starvation mode is that adaptive reduction in metabolic rate (where metabolism slows down in response to decrease calorie intake) is enough to cause a plateau. That is also not true. it will cause a SLOW DOWN in progress but not a total cessation of fat loss.

As a result of these myths, I have even clarified and refined my own messages about starvation mode in the past few years because I don’t want to see people panic merely because they miss a meal or they’re using an aggressive caloric deficit at times. I find that people tend to worry about this far too much.

However, starvation response is real, it is extremely well documented and is not just a metabolic adaptation - it is also a series of changes in the brain, mediated by the hypothalamus as well as hormonal changes which induce food seeking behaviors.

Here is just a handful of the research and the explanations that I have handy:

Ancel Key’s Minnesota starvation study is the classic work in this area, which dates back to 1950 and is still referenced to this day. In this study, there was a 40% decrease in metabolism due to 6 months of “semi-starvation” at 50% deficit.

Much or most of the decrease was due to loss of body mass, (which was much more pronounced because the subjects were not weight training), but not all of the metabolic decline could be explained simply by the loss of body weight, thus “metabolic adaptation” to starvation was proposed as the explanation for the difference.

Abdul Dulloo of the University of Geneva did a series of studies that revisited the 1300 pages of data that keys collected from this landmark study, which will not ever be repeated due to ethical considerations. (it’s not easy to do longitudinal studies that starve people, as you can imagine)

Here’s one of those follow up studies:

“Adaptive reduction in basal metabolic rate in response to food deprivation in humans: a role for feedback signals from fat stores. Dulloo, Jaquet 1998. American journal of clinical nutrition.

Quote:

“It is well established from longitudinal studies of human starvation and semistarvation that weight loss is accompanied by a decrease in basal metabolicrate (BMR) greater than can be accounted for by the change in body weight or body composition”

“the survival value of such an energy-regulatory process that limits tissue depletion during food scarcity is obvious.”

Also, starvation mode is a series of intense food seeking behaviors and other psychological symptoms and if you do any research on the minnesota study and other more recent studies, you will find out that starvation mode as a spontaneous increase in food seeking behavior is very, very real.

Do you think sex is the most primal urge? Think again! Hunger is the most primal of all human urges and when starved, interest in everything else including reproduction, falls by the wayside until you have been re-fed.

There are even changes in the reproductive system linked to starvation mode: It makes total sense too because if you cannot feed yourself, how can you have offspring and feed them - when you starve and or when body fat drops to extremely low levels, testosterone decreases in men, and menstrual cycle stops in women.

Starvation mode is not just adaptive reduction metabolic rate - it is much more.

There IS a controversy over how much of the decrease in metabolism with weight loss is caused by starvation mode, but the case is extremely strong:

For example, this study DIRECTLY addresses the controversy over HOW MUCH of a decrease in metabolism really occurs with starvation due to adaptive thermogenesis and how much is very simply due to a loss in total body mass.

Doucet, et al 2001. British journal of nutrition. “Evidence for the existence of adaptive thermogenesis during weight loss.”

quote:

“It should be expected that the decrease in resting energy expenditure that occurs during weightloss would be proportional to the decrease in body substance. However, in the case of underfeeding studies, acute energy restriction can also lead to reductions in resting energy expenditure which are not entirely explained by changes in body composition.”

Starvation response is even a scientific term that is used in obesity science textbooks - word for word - CONTRARY to the claim made by the expert mentioned earlier who thinks the phrase, starvation mode is “unscientific.”

Handbook of Obesity Treatment, by wadden and stunkard

(two of the top obesity scientists and researchers in the world )

quote:

“The starvation response - which is an increase in food seeking behavior - is most likely mediated by the decrease in leptin associated with caloric deprivation.”

Textbooks on nutritional biochemistry also acknowledge the decrease in metabolism and distinguish it as an adaptive mechanism, distinct from the decrease in energy expenditure that would be expected with weight loss. In this case, the author also mentions another downside of very low calorie diets: spontaneous reduction in physical activity.

Biochemical And Physiological Aspects of Human Nutrition by SM. Stipanauk, professor of nutritional sciences, Cornell University (WB Saunders company, 2000)

Quote:

“During food restriction, thermic effect of food and energy expenditure decrease, as would be expected from reduced food intake and a reduction in total body mass. Resting metabolic rate, however declines more rapidly than would be expected from the loss of body mass and from the decline in spontaneous physical activity due to general fatigue.

This adaptive reduction in resting metabolic rate may be a defense against further loss of body energy stores.”

Granted, it is more often referred to as “metabolic adaptation” or “adaptive reduction in metabolic rate.” However, starvation mode and starvation response are both terms found in the scientific literature, and they are more easily understood by the layperson, which is why I choose to use them.

Another effect of starvation mode is what happens after the diet: A sustained increase in appetite and a sustained reduction of metabolic rate that persists after the diet is over. Although controversial, this too is documented in the literature:

American Journal clinical nutrition 1997. Dulloo “post starvation hyperphagia and body fat overshooting in humans.”

American Journal Clin Nutrition 1989, Elliot et al. “Sustained depression of the resting metabolic rate after massive weight loss”

quote:

“Resting metabolic rate of our obese subjects remained depressed after massive weight loss despite increased caloric consumption to a level that allowed body weight stabilization.”

and Dulloo 1998:

“The reduction in thermogenesis during semistarvation persists after 12 weeks of restricted refeeding, with its size being inversely proportional to the degree of fat recovery but unrelated to the degree of fat free mass recovery.”

By the way, this explains what some people refer to as “metabolic damage” and although this is not a scientific phrase, you can see that it too is a reality. It is the lag time between when a diet ends and when your metabolism and appetite regulating mechanisms get back to normal.

Last, but certainly not least, and perhaps the best indicator of starvation mode is the hormone LEPTIN. you could spend weeks studying leptin and still not cover all the data that has been amassed on this subject.

Leptin IS the anti starvation hormone. Some people say leptin IS the starvation mode itself because it regulates many of the negative effects that occur during starvation.

leptin is secreted mostly from fat cells and it signals your brain about your fat stores. If your fat stores diminish (danger of starvation), your leptin decreases. If your calorie intake decreases, your leptin level decreases.

When leptin decreases, it essentially sounds the starvation alarm. In response, your brain (hypothalamus) sends out signals for other hormones to be released which decrease metabolic rate and increase appetite.

In summary and conclusion: There is no debate whatsoever about the existence of starvation mode - IT EXISTS and is well documented.

There is also no debate whatsoever that metabolic rate decreases with weight loss. It happens and is well documented, and it is a reason for plateuas.

There’s really only ONE debate about starvation mode that is — HOW MUCH of the starvation mode is comprised of adaptive reduction in metabolic rate and how much is due to loss of total body mass and increased feeding behaviors?

Researchers are still debating these questions, in fact just earlier this year another study was releasd by Major and Doucet in the international journal of obesity called, “clinical significance of adaptive thermogenesis.”

Here’s a quote from this latest (2007) study: “Adaptive thermogenesis is described as the decrease in energy expenditure beyond what could be predicted from the changes in fat mass or fat free mass under conditions of standardized physical activity in response to a decreased energy intake, and could represent in some individuals another factor that impedes weight loss and compromises the maintenance of a reduced body weight.”

I respect the work that other fitness professionals are trying to do to debunk diet and fitness myths, but this fellow didn’t seem to do his homework and totally missed the boat on this article about starvation mode.

What’s really odd is that he didn’t quote a single study in his article, despite his repeated reference to “scientific research.”

If he wanted to argue against adaptive reduction in metabolic rate and chalk starvation mode up purely to increase in food seeking behaviors… and if he wanted to attribute the decreased metabolism with weight loss purely to lost body mass, he easily could have done that. But he didn’t cite ANY studies. He just expects us to take his word for it that “starvation mode is a myth,” and people like me who use the phrase starvation mode are “unscientific”

Either way you argue it - and whatever you choose to call it - “starvation response” is a scientific fact and that’s why prolonged low calorie diets are risky business and mostly just quick fixes.

The rapid weight loss in the beginning is an illusion: Starvation diets catch up with you eventually… just like other habits such as smoking appear to do no harm at first, but sooner or later the damage is done.

For years I’ve considered it so important to understand the consequences of starvation diets that my entire burn the fat program is built around helping you recover from metabolic damage from past diet mistakes, to avoid the starvation mode, or to at least keep the effects of the starvation mode to a minimum so you can lose the fat and keep the muscle.

Sincerely,

Your friend and “Burn The fat coach”

Tom Venuto, CSCS, NSCA-CPT

www.BurnTheFat.com

PS. For more information on getting lean without starving yourself or harming your metabolism, visit my website at www.BurnTheFat.com.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Half the article admits it is all very controversial and the other half makes claims such as this:

In summary and conclusion: There is no debate whatsoever about the existence of starvation mode - IT EXISTS and is well documented.

It is controversial or proven, one or the other.

Before surgery I'd say I probably ate 3000 calories a day. After surgery I consumed 600 calories a day until I was at goal, about 10 months. I did not experience fatigue and a lack of weight loss - quite the opposite.

Your article suggests that a decrease in leptin is key, Leptin is going to decrease regardless of "starvation" mode or not, so how can this be blamed?

About the only thing that makes sense in what you have presented is that it is all very controversial. Nobody can find absolute solid proof of stavation mode.

Your metabolism IS going to slow down with weight loss and with a lot of weight loss (and especially with no muscle training) it's going to decrease even more. It's a simple concept, the bigger the body the more calories it takes to carry that body around. When you lose weight you will lose muscle mass. The key is to lose as little muscle mass as possible. You do this through Protein and weight training. Either way, we do lose some muscle during massive weight loss and that is going to slow down the metabolism and we will have to work harder for weight loss.

Every single time a person comes here to post that they aren't losing well someone chimes in and suggests they eat more. Half the time we don't even know what the person's diet is but the suggestion is always the same, increase calories.

It gets silly after awhile.

There is a lot of science to make that claim, if you have ever taken a Physical Education course or even biology you would know this.

Here is one site that explains it...scroll down to the section about reducing calories too much....

Daily Calorie Intake for Weight Loss

Do a search and you will find thousands of sites stating the same thing....

Good Luck and give it a shot, what to do you have to loose right - just pounds!!

Sorry, that isn't a peer reviewed scientific study. It's an article written by ... who?

pinkee, maybe your doctor took out your fill, because you said you felt uncomfortable--many people who don't have any Fluid in their band at surgery still feel some restriction from the swelling brought on by the surgery. My post-op swelling restriction lasted about 2 weeks. Since you said you felt uncomfortable, your doctor might have been rethinking the fill he gave you during the operation? It sounds as if you've entered "bandster hell"--you're a bit of an early arriver what with it being a little more than just one week after surgery--but it's not at all uncommon to feel very, very hungry until your next fill. I wake up in the middle of the night so hungry that I have to eat a little something just to fall asleep. I've learned to try and make my last meal as close to bedtime as possible. And at that meal I try to eat more Protein than at other meals--protein takes longer to digest, has more calories for it's volume compared to most other foods, and keeps the night hunger away for at least 4 hours (for me anyway). I keep a low-fat cheese stick on my nightstand and eat it in my bed when I do wake up--even though I'm not a big fan of the cheese stick--it is a Protein, it has less than 100 calories, it's easy to chew really well, AND it usually lasts me the rest of the night. Good luck with everything. This is just a little bump in the road.

The more restriction people have the less they tolerate eating before bedtime. When you have food in your pouch and you lay flat that's a great way to get major reflux. Just be careful as you get more restriction, that might not be a comfortable thing to do later.

Most docs suggest not eating anything for about 3 hours before bedtime.

I attended my first semminar yesterday and I'm feeling a bit overwelmed. I have researched this for many months, lapband vs. gastric bypass and now I don't know. When you can hear a doctor talk about the pros and cons of both surgeries, I now have questions if the lapband is what I want or if bypass is. I know in the end the doctor and I will make the decision together. Did anyone else first chose the band then change to bypass? There are lot of pre op requirements that both surgeries require so I've been making calls to set up appointments.Lots to take in and to read all the info they passed out. All in all the semminar was very informative and I enjoyed it. I was also glad to see I was not the smallest there or the oldest!!

You do have another option, a sleeve. Better weight loss and far fewer complications long term than the band and MUCH safer than bypass with no malabsorption.

Hi,

I have a question about calories in take per day. I read the calories intake poll and went to check my intake. My doctor told me not to count calories and just to focus on 1/2 -3/4 cups 3 meals a day. well, at first I was losing weight slowly but it does comes down; however, these past 3 weeks, I am stuck at the same weight. I wrote down what I eat and well i was surprise becasue it was only between 600-700 which I think it is not enough for me. I've tried to write down what I eat today and I am still at 710 (including dinner). I am at lost of how to increase my calories to be around 1000 -1200 with out eating bad stuff.

Can you guys show me what do you eat during the day?

Thank you,

Alisa

What is your typical daily menu currently?

Now why we don't do moderation well can vary. I don't recall how much current research there is on children receiving and recognizing the signal that satiety has been reached. I'd hazard a guess that most children in the US nowadays never even get the chance.

I don't know that I agree with that thinking as much as what we are feeding children today.

When I was a kid McDonalds was something we did every few months. Today many people eat it several times a week.

Now, if you look at the diets of people 100 years ago... I don't know how they survived to adulthood. It was just as bad but bad in a different way. Bacon and eggs every morning, huge loads of fat and calories for their main meal and craploads of Desserts. But... they needed those calories, they were out there working farms, cutting wood, they were busting their butts. Kids were doing chores, hard work kind of chores. Not taking the garbage out or cleaning their rooms. They were working farms and doing similar work to their parents. Going to school was just one job, their other job started when they got home.

Today kids whine if they have to walk to school. They go to school, come home, then watch TV or computer games. They eat crap and if you notice overweight parents tend to have loads of crap foods in the house. If you give a kid a choice between a carrot and a cookie while he's sitting on his butt watching TV he's more likely to choose the cookie just like once you start feeding an infant fruits they prefer the sweet flavor over veggies.

I don't know that it is fair to blame full signals in children, I think a better bet is to see what they are eating and how they are moving their bodies. Don't you remember when you were a kid? When I was a kid we were outside playing hard all day long. We were riding bikes, running, chasing one another, playing all kinds of games. We came home for meals and between meals we were burning calories. That's not the case today.

Too much non-reinforcement, and you've reinforced against an appropriate response.

Agreed.

Now here's the thing that floats around my mind. My mother spent her life growing more and more overweight. Toward the end, she had developed a variety of medical conditions including, eventually, diabetes, asthma (thanks to spending 3 years smoking secretly) and COPD. Yet her diet was primarily vegetables (raw broccoli, often enough), because she couldn't stand long enough to cook.

Her primary problem, though, was brittle bones due to steroidal treatment for another syndrome,

Bingo... steroids. I don't know many people that can take steroids and not gain weight. That's the drug, not the diet. Those drugs don't just make you gain weight, they shift fat from one part of the body to another.

But Wasa, the whole obesity thing is not as simple as white carbs - although of course, cutting those is a great place to start.

People have to start somewhere. When I tell noobs about my diet they turn up their collective noses and walk away and I would have done the same when I was a noob.

When you cut out foods that contain flour and sugar most noobs feel like there is nothing left to eat. It takes time to change a lifetime of habits and cutting out white carbs is a good place to start.

I think one reason some do not do well in the beginning is that they really don't know there is life outside of bread, Pasta and Mickey D's. People don't have money in the US, families are struggling, we are losing 100,000 jobs a month right now. People are trying to make a buck stretch. Do you have something similar to dollar stores there? We have stores where nothing in the store is over $1 USD. I go there because there is a s/f drink that I can't find anywhere else. To be honest, I hate those stores. It is loaded with cheap garbage. Canned Pasta, chips, sugar drinks, just horrible foods. J, if you saw the Dollar Tree store you'd faint with shock. And it's all for under a USD. Very few healthy choices in there but this is where people are shopping due to financial need.

I eat pretty cheap but that's because the foods I like are cheap. Beans, lentils, fresh organic veggies, very little dead critter, my downfall is cheese but I eat such small quantities that I do not care. Show a newbie my diet and they can't believe anyone could maintain that diet. I went from an all fast food diet to I eat similar foods to a rabbit. But that didn't happen overnight, it was a work in progress. Today it's what I prefer and fast food places stink a lot. I can't stand the smell.

People eat a LOAD of other poison - trans fats, saturated fat, additives, colours and flavours, loads of salt, pesticides and other chemicals. I know that basically you and I do agree about what a healthy diet is too.

Totally agree. But, newbies don't typically just change their diets overnight. Cut out white carbs and it cuts out a lot of the other poisons that go with them. Canned pastas, most fast foods, etc.

Personally I believe if people actually learned to shop, cook and plan and stopped living out of boxes and cans, there'd be a lot less fat people around. And even the thin ones would live longer and have less disease.

Totally agree again. Processed foods replaced nutrition with chemicals and poisons and THAT is what we feed kids and then we wonder why they are fat. I was just reading a study two days ago that shows that 30% of children are "obese" in some states in the US. When I was a kid the fat kid was really noticable because there was usually just one fat kid per class, if that. Today it's 1/3 of the kids that are at least overweight if not obese.

About six months ago there was a lady that contacted me about her daughter. She wanted help with getting insurance to cover banding for her ***9*** year old daughter. This kid was 9 years old and has a BMI of 73. She was already riding a scooter because she couldn't walk anymore due to the size of her thighs. Her feet weren't close enough together to be able to walk. She wanted to band her daughter because she too, was MO and didn't want to change her own eating habits. If she kept her fav foods in the house her daughter would eat them so her thinking was band the kid and the family didn't have to change their own food habits. What kind of sicko crazy thinking is that?

Hi Kjhack,

I can totally symphathise!!

I am 9 months in and have lost a grand total of 40lbs.

Have 13mls in a 14ml band which is now pretty tight, (probably too tight if i'm totally honest).

I've lost 8 lbs since this last fill but that was in the liquid stage and I've lost nothing since. Can't have another fill as I wouldn't be able to swallow my own spit :crying: I'm currently pbing after almost every meal. Just ate a poached egg and a desert spoon of baked Beans. Down two minutes back up before three

Get a slight unfill.

I'll be honest with you guys I don't exercise, I hate it and don't want to do it. I also don't want to diet, if I could diet or wanted to exercise why would I have paid thousands of pounds (oh I'm English by the way), for what was sold to me as the ultimate portion controller. Oh I like to drink as well!

I have to say it... I will say it.

You can't pay for weight loss, that isn't how it works. Just a very small amount of research shows quite clearly that the band (or any WLS) is merely a tool for you to do it yourself. It is not a magical cure, you pay money, have surgery, and somehow pounds just fly off. That's not realistic. You have to watch what you are eating and get out there and exercise. Don't like exercise? I do not care, do it anyway. We don't like a lot of things in life but we do them anyway as responsible adults. Don't like to watch what you are putting in your mouth? Tough, do it anyway. You are an adult and you need to act like a responsible adult to lose weight. I think 99.9% of us hate diet and exercise but if you want weight loss, you do it. Period.

Oh god I'm obviously a bad person, take me out and flog me.

It is not a matter of being a bad person, it is a matter of being responsible for your own actions and if you want the weight loss badly enough you do what you have to do. If you don't want weight loss just have the band removed and do what you wish.

Well my mind says if my food intake is restricted enough physics alone says I will lose weight? How restricted can it get, yesterday's total intake was half a beefburger and 2 tablespoons of cottage pie.

SO WHY ISN'T IT HAPPENING :thumbup:

Kim

x

It doesn't happen overnight. You didn't put it on overnight and you aren't going to take it off overnight. It takes a LOT of hard work.

If all you had was 1/2 a beef burger and two spoonful's of cottage pie, then my guess is you are not getting enough calories in. If you are full from eating, try adding in some Protein drinks and see if that jogs the system.

Good Luck

Any science to prove that claim? ;o) I see that written a gazillion times on this board and I would love for someone to show some solid, peer reviewed studies proving this claim.

If you eat more you have more calories to burn.

Exactly.

How did this thread got onto a carb versus non carb discussion, lol?

It started here:

Carbs are not the evil monster a lot of people believe them to be. They do actually form an important part of a healthy diet.

In fact reading a lot of the posts on this board it seems like a lot of bandsters are on the "Atkins diet" or at least a modified form thereof.

I have not been told to stay away from carbs nor have I been told to eat Protein first.What my surgeon aims for is a balanced diet.

Having said all that though I have been warned that rice can cause problems which means that I am not likely to try eating it in any kind of quantity. I think it is better if you choose the kind that doesn't stick together in clumps when cooked and also mix it with your mince or whatever you are eating with it.

I think it is a fair comment to make that there are good carbs and bad carbs. I made the comment that a modified Atkins diet can be a pretty darn healthy diet.

There are a lot of us who eat rice and have lost weight too.

Did anyone claim otherwise?

However, i have a problem when people present their approach as right or correct to the exclusion of others.

Of course. But don't you notice a lot of newbies asking "at goal vets" how they did it and how the maintain?

We have a whole country of people here in Australia who are not encouraged to do Protein first and who are not encouraged to give up rice, bread and Pasta (although we are warned they can be problem foods). And we have good results with the band here in Australia. So it is patently obvious to me that the protein first, carbs only from fruit and vegies approach is just not the only "right" way to do it. It is absolutely obvious to me that you can lose weight on a diet that includes reasonable quantities of bread, rice and Pasta.< /div>

You see, here is where I'd have to comment.

Last article I read about your health system is that due to obesity it is on the verge of bankruptcy. Now I grant you that I haven't kept up with the topic so maybe you guys recovered from it. I do not know. I do know obesity is a HUGE problem in the US. Just yesterday I read more stats showing 1/3 of our population is normal weight, 1/3 is over weight, and 1/3 is obese.

Personally I disagree with protein first. I understand the concept but I do not agree with it. I'd rather see people get a lot more veggies in. I think a reasonable approach is veggies first, protein, then carbs and starches.

Although I agree, nobody "needs" white low GI carbs and that these are unhealthy junk foods, I'd also argue that you can eat some of them and not be fat. There's evidence of that everywhere. I'd also argue that nobody "needs" deli meat, protein or not. Nor do they need cheesed or protein shakes - particularly soy isolate ones(hmmm, I'd like an overdose of gm soy product packed full of toxins and phyotestrogens for my breakfast thanks).

Most of us that needed WLS did so because we don't really know what moderation is. What about people that plan a weekly date and time to eat a load of crap? They "reward" themselves with a special date and time to eat absolute garbage? My thinking is this:

~Especially as noobs we don't really do moderation well and that is pretty much why we needed WLS to begin with.

~With appropriate restriction caloric intake is drastically cut. If they fill up on flour and sugar products there is no way they can get all nutrition in,

~I suspect for most flour and/or sugar is a trigger food. It sure is for me, one bite of anything with flour in it and it's all I think about... wanting MORE! Talk to people, especially vets. They know exactly what their trigger foods are,

~WLS is a learning experiences, after we have surgery we discover just how much we did not know about food, nutrition, food triggers, etc.

~WLS is a lifestyle change. Too many people are still eating crap, just smaller quantities of crap. We most certainly did NOT get fat eating apples, we got fat eating white carbs and trans fats. Introduce me to a MO person that lives on an all apple, no white carb diet. I want to meet them. ;o)

I think the health side of this is an entirely separate one that most of us arent qualified to argue on - especially when it appears different bodies need different things. Some people will find their blood chemistry is diabolical after a few months on Atkins, others find it improves. Some people's bodies react way worse to carb foods than others.

Which version of Atkins? No carb or healthy carb?

This is Greta. Since a lot of people asked me for details here it goes.....My doctor Milton Owens, Orange county ca, charges $3,700, yes $3,700 additional and it's a total rip off. this "includes", 24 hour access to him(I called the day after surgery to ask something, I've never heard from him. It's been 2 1/2 weeks), for a program manual, he gave me the program that lapband.com sends out for free and put a white sticker with his name on it. Nutrition guidance. i called to ask a question and they referred me to the free manual. It's awful. I asked for a refund, sent a letter going through each point, ;and they said tough, you signed the paper. Beware of Milton Owens. Anybody want to ask me I will be happy to answer.

There is a section here on LBT to write reviews of doctors. I'd really encourage you to do that.

Also, OH has a place for patient testimonials, please... get an OH account and write in detail of your experiences.

www.obesityhelp.com

I would have loved to have only had to pay 10K for the band. I hate making that big payment every month for something I dont have anymore

A friend of mine revised to bypass from a band. She's still paying off her band as well. :001_tongue:(

Easy to find this...just Google!

Nutrition Facts

Serving Size: 8 fl oz

Amount per ServingCalories 190Calories from Fat 60% Daily Value *Total Fat 7g11% Saturated Fat 0.5g2%Cholesterol 10mg3%Sodium 250mg10%Potassium 400mg11%Total Carbohydrate 16g5% Dietary Fiber 3g12% Sugars 4gProtein 16g32%

Vitamin A25%Vitamin C170%Calcium35%Iron25%Vitamin D40%Vitamin E200%Vitamin K40%Thiamin (B1)25%Riboflavin (B2)25%Niacin (B3)25%Vitamin B650%Folic Acid (Folate)50%Vitamin B1250%Biotin25%Magnesium10%Panthothenic Acid25%Zinc30%Copper25%Manganese35%Chromium50%Molybdenum25%

Est. Percent of Calories from:

Fat 33.2% Carbs 33.7% Protein 33.7%

Heh.... I did google it and after the 3rd website that I couldn't find it I became annoyed.

It is a little high in fat, carbs, and calories for only 16gms of Protein.< /p>

I LOVE whey Gourmet Choco/PB. 120 calories, 22gms protein, 3gms carbs, 2gms fat, 1gm sugar.

You can mix it with milk or Water, I prefer it with Water otherwise it's just too thick and rich.

I was wondering, do people with GERD still do the gastric banding and have it resolved, or is it more people get the band and develop GERD?

If you had GERD before the band, I'd love to hear your experience and if it got worse or improved, as well as if you developed it after.

Depends on a few factors. The cause of your GERD for one. If it is due to a hiatal hernia that can be fixed when they do your band. If it is not due to a hiatal hernia sometimes it resolves for about a year but then new studies are showing a very high percentage of banded folks a year or two out where the band caused it due to positioning.

Most people that have been banded for a year or two that I personally know (20?) have major reflux where they didn't have it before. The boards pretty much support the same, lots of people having their bands removed because of severe reflux.

If someone has severe reflux/GERD and they cannot get it under control bypass is the ideal WLS. :biggrin:/

Carbs are not the evil monster a lot of people believe them to be. They do actually form an important part of a healthy diet.

In fact reading a lot of the posts on this board it seems like a lot of bandsters are on the "Atkins diet" or at least a modified form thereof.

I have not been told to stay away from carbs nor have I been told to eat Protein first.What my surgeon aims for is a balanced diet.

Having said all that though I have been warned that rice can cause problems which means that I am not likely to try eating it in any kind of quantity. I think it is better if you choose the kind that doesn't stick together in clumps when cooked and also mix it with your mince or whatever you are eating with it.

I think a modified Atkins is perfect for weight loss and maintenance. Sure, there are good carbs but there are also verrrry bad carbs. I eat unlimited good carbs and no white carbs. Your body really does not need sugar or flour. As for rice and potatoes the calorie content vs. nutritional value is just not worth it. We didn't get fat eating broccoli, we got fat eating white carbs.

My wife and I have both had good luck with Boost Glucose control, The taste is great, and while expensive, there are coupons in every carton and CVS and Walgreen regularly have sales, its affordable as a meal replacment, this has been my breakfast every day for the last 6 months.

I can't find anything on the manufacturers website about calories and nutrition details. How many carbs, Protein grams, and calories does this product have?

wASSa and Eyfura can you change your font for these old eyes PLEASE too small have trouble reading it

THANK YOU

I did not change my font, it's standard VST font. I have a hunch it is your settings vs. my font.

I think I love you. ;o) Someone understands me! I think I am in heaven!

Carb withdrawal sucks donkey peeters. No way around it. It just does.

OMG WASa that cracks me up ... :lol0:

Dang... and I was trying to use "make nice" words. ;o)