WASaBubbleButt

Margaritas... carbs! Banded folks can come with us, noooooo DSers. ;o)

Can you wait that long?

Stolen from Rob on OH, written by Mike Nichols, no link available: Midwinter's Eve: YULE Their Christian friends are often quite surprised at how enthusiastically Pagans Celebrate the ‘Christmas’ season. Even though they prefer to use the word “Yule”, and their celebrations may peak a few days before the twenty-fifth, they nonetheless follow many of the traditional customs of the season: decorated trees, caroling, presents, Yule logs, and mistletoe. They might even go so far as putting up a ‘Nativity set’, though for them the three central characters are likely to be interpreted as Mother Nature, Father Time, and the baby Sun God. None of this will come as a surprise to anyone who knows the true history of the holiday, of course. In fact, if truth be known, the holiday of Christmas has always been more Pagan than Christian, with its associations of Nordic divination, Celtic fertility rites, and Roman Mithraism. That is why John Calvin and other leaders of the Reformation abhorred it, why the Puritans refused to acknowledge it, much less celebrate it (to them, no day of the year could be more holy than the Sabbath), and why it was even made illegal in Boston! The holiday was already too closely associated with the birth of older Pagan Gods and heroes. And many of them (like Oedipus, Theseus, Hercules, Perseus, Jason, Dionysus, Apollo, Mithra, Horus, and even Arthur) possessed a narrative of birth, death, and resurrection that was uncomfortably close to that of Jesus. And to make matters worse, many of them predated the Christian Savior. Ultimately, of course, the holiday is rooted deeply in the cycle of the year. It is the winter solstice that is being celebrated, seedtime of the year, the longest night and shortest day. It is the birthday of the new Sun King, the Son of God—by whatever name you choose to call him. On this darkest of nights, the Goddess becomes the Great Mother and once again gives birth. And it makes perfect poetic sense that on the longest night of the winter, “the dark night of their souls”, there springs the new spark of hope, the Sacred Fire, the Light of the World, the Coel Coeth. That is why Pagans have as much right to claim this holiday as Christians. Perhaps even more so, since the Christians were rather late in laying claim to it, and tried more than once to reject it. There had been a tradition in the West that Mary bore the child Jesus on the twenty-fifth day, but no one could seem to decide on the month. Finally, in 320 C.E., the Catholic fathers in Rome decided to make it December, in an effort to co-opt the Mithraic celebration of the Romans, the Yule festival of the Saxons, and the midwinter revels of the Celts. There was never much pretense that the date they finally chose was historically accurate. Shepherds just don’t “tend their flocks by night” in the high pastures in the dead of winter! But if one wishes to use the New Testament as historical evidence, this reference may point to sometime in the spring as the time of Jesus’ birth. This is because the lambing season occurs in the spring and that is the only time when shepherds are likely to “watch their flocks by night”—to make sure the lambing goes well. Knowing this, the Eastern half of the church continued to reject December 25, preferring a “movable date” fixed by their astrologers according to the moon. Thus, despite its shaky start (for over three centuries, no one knew when Jesus was supposed to have been born!), December 25 finally began to catch on. By 529, it was a civic holiday, and all work or public business (except that of cooks, bakers, or any that contributed to the delight of the holiday) was prohibited by the Emperor Justinian. In 563, the Council of Braga forbade fasting on Christmas Day, and four years later the Council of Tours proclaimed the twelve days from December 25 to Epiphany as a sacred, festive season. This last point is perhaps the hardest to impress upon the modern reader, who is lucky to get a single day off work. Christmas, in the Middle Ages, was not a single day, but rather a period of twelve days, from December 25 to January 6. The Twelve Days of Christmas, in fact. It is certainly lamentable that the modern world has abandoned this approach, along with the popular Twelfth Night celebrations. Of course, the Christian version of the holiday spread to many countries no faster than Christianity itself, which means that “Christmas” wasn’t celebrated in Ireland until the late fifth century; in England, Switzerland, and Austria until the seventh; in Germany until the eighth; and in the Slavic lands until the ninth and tenth. Not that these countries lacked their own midwinter celebrations. Long before the world had heard of Jesus, Pagans had been observing the season by bringing in the Yule log, wishing on it, and lighting it from the remains of last year’s log. Riddles were posed and answered, magic and rituals were practiced, wild boars were sacrificed and consumed along with large quantities of liquor, corn dollies were carried from house to house while caroling, fertility rites were practiced (girls standing under a sprig of mistletoe were subject to a bit more than a kiss), and divinations were cast for the coming spring. Many of these Pagan customs, in an appropriately watered-down form, have entered the mainstream of Christian celebration, though most celebrants do not realize (or do not mention it, if they do) their origins. For modern Witches, Yule (from the Anglo-Saxon yula, meaning “wheel” of the year) is usually celebrated on the actual winter solstice, which may vary by a few days, though it usually occurs on or around December 21. It is a Lesser Sabbat or Low Holiday in the modern Pagan calendar, one of the four quarter days of the year, but a very important one. Pagan customs are still enthusiastically followed. Once, the Yule log had been the center of the celebration. It was lighted on the eve of the solstice (it should light on the first try) and must be kept burning for twelve hours, for good luck. It should be made of ash. Later, the Yule log was replaced by the Yule tree but, instead of burning it, lighted candles were placed on it. In Christianity, Protestants might claim that Martin Luther invented the custom, and Catholics might grant St. Boniface the honor, but the custom can demonstrably be traced back through the Roman Saturnalia all the way to ancient Egypt. Needless to say, such a tree should be cut down rather than purchased, and should be disposed of by burning, the proper way to dispatch any sacred object. Along with the evergreen, the holly and the ivy and the mistletoe were important plants of the season, all symbolizing fertility and everlasting life. Mistletoe was especially venerated by the Celtic Druids, who cut it with a golden sickle on the sixth night of the moon, and believed it to be an aphrodisiac. (Magically—not medicinally! It’s highly toxic!) But aphrodisiacs must have been the smallest part of the Yuletide menu in ancient times, as contemporary reports indicate that the tables fairly creaked under the strain of every type of good food. And drink! The most popular of which was the “wassail cup”, deriving its name from the Anglo-Saxon term waes hael (be whole or hale). Medieval Christmas folklore seems endless: that animals will all kneel down as the Holy Night arrives, that bees hum the 100th psalm on Christmas Eve, that a windy Christmas will bring good luck, that a person born on Christmas Day can see the Little People, that a cricket on the hearth brings good luck, that if one opens all the doors of the house at midnight all the evil spirits will depart, that you will have one lucky month for each Christmas pudding you sample, that the tree must be taken down by Twelfth Night or bad luck is sure to follow, that “if Christmas on a Sunday be, a windy winter they shall see”, that “hours of sun on Christmas Day, so many frosts in the month of May”, that one can use the Twelve Days of Christmas to predict the weather for each of the twelve months of the coming year, and so on. Remembering that most Christmas customs are ultimately based upon older Pagan customs, it only remains for modern Pagans to reclaim their lost traditions. In doing so, they can share many common customs with their Christian friends, albeit with a slightly different interpretation. And, thus, they all share in the beauty of this most magical of seasons, when the Mother Goddess once again gives birth to the baby Sun God and sets the wheel in motion again. To conclude with a long-overdue paraphrase, “Goddess bless them, every one!

Buttttt.... how do you talk logic with Plain??? (snark) (Love ya Plain)

EVERYONE does! Everyone across the board. I'm going to go out on a limb and say without exception EVERYONE needs to learn to slow down. It's a learning curve. Those that were banded and revised to a sleeve have advantages that newbie sleeves don't have. We already went through the chewing learning curve. What you are experiencing is completely and totally normal. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

People are armed with information today more than ever. People used to go to the doc's office and believe anything they were told. Today that is no longer true. They go to their docs office armed with the right questions and the confidence to know WHAT to ask and what to demand. Don't you think that is a good thing? Nobody is diagnosing Denise in this thread, we are arming her with info so she can be proactive in her own health care. Personally I think that is a fantastic thing!

You know, a sleeve can tolerate a lot more than a band but even a sleeve couldn't tolerate that kind of wood chips. It was bad. Don't tell Snowbird I told you that, but it's true. :biggrin:(

Sounds great! I started to do the 5DPT today but have a nasty case of gastritis and solid foods kills the pain. (ouch) So I'll try the test again tomorrow and see if it works. Later next week is ideal! I'll be ready for GOOD food by then. cheese logs! I know, they are called cheese sticks but you saw those things, weren't they good??? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm Can't wait for you to come home! Happy anniversary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many years???

Hmmm.. well, I'd give the PPI time to work, appropriate dose, appropriate eating habits and if that does not work then you need some testing. Aren't you coming here in the next few months to see your Dad? If so, we can take a trip to Mexicali for a barium swallow. That's $75/$80. Then if you need an endo he can tell you from there. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about a slip at this point. Reflux is not the only indicator of a slip. Not usually. Typically there are more symptoms and you do not appear to have them. Reflux with a band is problematic in itself, but a slip wouldn't be my first concern.

Plain... In general I would tend to agree with you but when it comes to banding and reflux, reflux is a big red flag. It's not safe to have reflux and a band. Not without proper testing. Often times reflux is a result of a band that is too tight, that can lead to slips and erosion. There is also a new study out that shows the stomach anatomy, a band, and reflux are indeed problematic. Reflux alone is annoying, reflux and a band needs attention.

You sound amazingly frustrated. ;o) I love the sleeve. As time goes on I hate my band more and more. I realize what I was missing out on, I think I learned that WLS comes with a much bigger price than necessary. Having a sleeve is EXACTLY like before I ever had any WLS at all but I just get full faster. No getting stuck, sliming, barfing, foaming, in pain, reflux, vomiting acid, no port pain, esophageal spasms, esophageal damage... none of it. It's all over. You will have to watch carb intake for the rest of your life. White carbs got us fat, not eating them will help get us thin. Some people are allergic to chocolate, they can't have it. Diabetics can't have much sugar. We can't eat a lot of carbs. We did not get fat eating broccoli, we got fat eating white carbs. So we will always have to watch them regardless of WLS type. With ANY WLS type if you eat carbs you will regain. Give the band time, many do very well with it but there is a learning curve. Be patient, ask lots of questions, work with it. You sound to me like you are going through the stage most of us do, where you are fighting your band. I did it too, I went through this stage where it just made me angry as hell that a piece of fancy plastic was running my life and making my decisions for me. I resented it. You get through it and move on to the next crappy stage in WLS. ;o) But eventually get you to goal and you have all NEW stages to experience. LOL It's true but you know, it's all worth it.

No, it is not. It was a theory, they realized they were wrong. Same holds true with coffee and NSAIDs. Truth is, other than those that are too tight for too long they don't know what causes erosion.

Upper GI/barium swallow. That will tell if you are holding acid in your pouch. If that doesn't show anything then an upper endo.

I don't know, I have such mixed feelings about the band. I honestly don't believe the band will be "forever" in 90% of the people. I'd be surprised if it lasts 10 years in the majority of people. You just can't stress the esophagus that much for that long and not expect problems. We always hear about these people that have had a band for 10 years but actually finding one is all but impossible. My thinking is this, we will never be fully rid of the fat mentality. Obesity is a disease, not a symptom. There is no cure for obesity but only treatments instead. Currently our best shot at treatments is surgery. If we have the fat mentality forever, where are all these 10 year banded folks? Don't they need the support of other fatties? I'm at goal but if I don't participate in this community or a similar one I fall into bad habits. It's a bit like my version of an AA meeting. Am I the only one? I don't think so, so these folks that are 10 years out and banded, where are they? Mexico has been banding US folks for 17 years, it's not like there is nobody in the US that was banded 17 years ago. Go to any RNY board and you see people that had surgery 20 years ago, 30 years ago, they are posting. Just banded folks don't need to post 10 years later? They don't need to be involved in the fat community to maintain? I'm not buying it. My point is that I don't believe the vast majority of people will make it 10 years with a band, that means they either maintain without it (3-5% can do that) or they revise. If you are doing well with a band and it isn't causing you any problems then hang in there. Just know that if you slip or need surgical repair the revision won't be in one surgery, it will be in two. One to remove the band and a 2nd to revise. That just happened to a friend of mine, she was waiting for her revision to a sleeve and slipped while waiting for her date. She was in bad shape, they had to hydrate her before they could even do surgery safely. Then her band was removed, now she has to wait six months for her stomach to heal before she can revise to a sleeve and she's gaining weight like crazy. Know how much weight you can gain in six months? She's hoping for her sleeve next January. There are a few people on the sleeve board (OH) that had a band and the band did so much damage that they can never revise to another surgery. No sleeve, no RNY, no DS. There is too much damage and a staple line would not be safe. They are left with diet and exercise for the rest of their lives. The flip side to that coin is that they also don't have a great surgeon either. I'd hope they get a 2nd opinion before assuming he is right, but maybe he is. I don't know. It's a crap shoot, you have to think about the risk you want to take. You have to consider if the band is causing you problems. If you have reflux just know that the first few weeks of being sleeved you might have mega reflux. Your stomach produces enough acid for a whole stomach for a few weeks. If you have esophageal damage due to acid you are really going to struggle after a sleeve. When I was having problems I really thought I was the exception to the rule. I thought I was unique and one of the few. Turns out that is not the case, the issues I had were very common. One upside to being banded, when you do revise the learning curve is minimal. I see newbie sleeved people sliming and foaming, barfing, etc. after they go to solids. I never see revision folks saying the same. They have already gone through the learning curve, they know how to chew, bite size, etc. So it will be much easier for you than a newbie sleeved person.

I wouldn't be worrying about a revision yet. You just got your first fill a few weeks ago. You haven't even learned to chew yet, or how to eat. It's a learning curve, give it time before you call it a scam.

That sounds kind of drastic, don't you think? Just another reason I'm so glad I'm not banded anymore!

Ohhhhhh, Pappadoux's! That sounds GOOD! I just hope their food is as good as in Mexicali~ I can go in six days or later. Tomorrow I start the 5 day pouch test. Or.... maybe I should do the 5DPT after Pappadauxs.... I don't care, you let me know when.

I don't have any problems taking vitamins. Drinking, I'm getting the hang of that now. Drink three swallows, I'm full, wait 10 seconds, drink three more swallows. ;o) It doesn't annoy me as much as it did at first but the days of guzzling a 16oz bottle of water are over. That will never happen again. But I'm almost used to it now, just like everyone said would happen. If your reflux is from the band you need to be very very careful. There is a new study out that shows the anatomy of the banded stomach is such that there is a little pocket that forms and acid stays in there and it can cause all kinds of problems. Are you taking PPIs?

MacMadame is correct in what she is trying to explain to you regarding the anatomical differences. I agree with you that there is no one surgery type that is best for everyone across the board. I have a friend that there is no surgery type that will ever work for her. It just isn't going to happen. ( DS would be her only option that might be workable but she's be totally non compliant with supplements. So... that leaves her nothing.

The shorter intestine that is bypassed in DS does make some difference but they are still left with basic Atkins after surgery. If they eat bad carbs they do indeed smell like a sewer. Not something I can comprehend why people would want to do. Gahhhh

I dunno... I just have this thing. See, there is a difference between NEEDING a bidet vs. WANTING a bidet. But what the hell do I know?

Can you narrow that down a bit to a specific post? Page?

You know I'm bored when I go hunting on the DS boards for more links. ;o))))) Check it out: Bidet Bid'ness I don't want a surgery type that requires extra bathroom accessories. Yikes. And another... burning butt post: Stinky poops from DS and the needs for THOUSANDS of dollars worth of antibiotics.... all so they can eat fried chicken... freak'en amazing: HAHAHA... think quick... where would you buy poo pourii? And assuming you know "WalMart" carries it...quick, which section of the store? ;o) http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/DS/a,messageboard/action,replies/board_id,5357/cat_id,4957/topic_id,3751419/ OMG I can't help myself, I keep going over there!

Well, you already know you do well with a restrictive procedure only so why go for malabsorptive when you know you don't need it to lose weight? With banding and bypass you are looking at a life time of after care, with a sleeve you are not. There is no maintenance of any sort with the sleeve.

Wait until you get to.... SOLIDS! You'll discover what restriction is all about at that point! Congrats on the oatmeal. ;o)