WASaBubbleButt

Dr. Aceves, Mexicali MX $7250. Kirshenbaum Denver, CO $9950 I'd also look at R. Rumbaut, Monterrey, MX and Zapata, Monterrey, MX.

Just because you don't agree with someone does not make them a "loony toon". The person you are calling names doesn't have to work for Inamed to not care for Realize. Is everyone who prefers Realize working for J&J?

Realize Support changed their ID to Realize Journey. Then Realize Journey started deleting posts when he got in over his head. Next ID that runs around pushing everyone to go to Dr. J. Schram... we'll know who it is. Again. Hey, it's free advertising, right? heh...

Isuza... I'm on the tail end of a bad case of flu right now and I don't have the desire or energy to discuss which band is better. One point I have to make is J&J's unethical practices. I only take issue with one point here and that is when you talk about J&Js unethical practices... well, that's up for debate as it's based on opinion. But what about Inamed? They are not exactly saintly in their behaviors. My own personal opinion is that I prefer the Inamed band over the J&J but J&J does have a much better business rep (standing behind their products, etc.) than Inamed. I'm thinking "drug company" and "ethical" in the same sentence might look a bit silly but it isn't really fair to discuss ethical issues of J&J while not mentioning Allergan/Inamed in the same breath. Cheers.

I think that probably a lot of it comes down to which company offers the doc the best perks. For many docs right now the Realize band is cheaper, the Mexican docs are passing the savings onto the patients, I haven't seen any US docs who are passing that savings on to patients yet. Not saying they aren't out there, I just haven't seen them. Inamed will pay a bulk of advertising costs for the doctor IF they are in the US. Canadian, Mexican, and Aussie docs have to pay their own advertising. Of course, they get the band at a reduced cost as well. So it's a competition between companies to see who can be more appealing to the doctors for financial gain. It has little to do with which band is better. They essentially do the same thing, restrict your ability to eat large quantities of food. BTW, I notice that the original poster changed their ID from "Realize Support" to "Realize Journey"... isn't that six of one, half dozen of another?

Thanks for explaining this, Dawna. It's a horror what some people will do to make a buck.

Exactly. I have a hunch the support extends further to Dr. Schram's patients. I didn't become annoyed until the usual US thinking regarding Mexican banded patients started being posted. (different thread, of course that post went unanswered) We get what we get due to a discounted surgery. I got a whole heck of a lot more than I would have if I would have had surgery in the US. It's just not wise to even be subtle about slamming Mexican banded patients. Last long term poll I saw here shows that 55% of people posting had surgery in Mexico and 45% had surgery in the US. I don't think Mexican surgeons are going away anytime soon so to make subtle digs is not the brightest of moves. It tends to make Mexican banded patients not think highly of some US surgeons when it comes time to refer someone to a surgeon that does have insurance and will be getting surgery in the US. I'm not anti-US for surgery, obviously, considering I live in the US. I am pro-get surgery in whatever way you have to that is safe and research your surgeon regardless of where you go.

I think one issue with Rumbaut is people like his experience and stats. Many like going to Monterrey because it is a bit safer town, more of a vacation spot, etc. Lots of tourists vacationing there, too. Personally I wanted to be closer to the border when having surgery. I wanted to be able to walk back if need be. But I'm a weenie that way. :wink_smile:

I have just noticed that in many (most) threads you write you make it a point to push Dr. Schram and it looks curious. Many threads asking if they like Dr. Schram, what he does that patients like, that he does fills on anyone, everyone should go to him, etc. No mention of other doctors, just Dr. Schram. It just looks kinda hinky. It looks VERY much like you are Dr. Schram. No, I have an Inamed band. I don't care for the company Inamed but I like their bands a great deal. J&J... I like the company but I don't like the bands. I wish that we could combine the two, get Realize manufacturers to take over Inamed. :wink_smile: But since that will never happen people need to find the band that is right for them. From reading various boards it seems like it takes longer to get to a sweet spot with Realize, likely due to the size. Same thing happens with the large Inamed band. It just seems to take more fills and that is annoying for newbies, and rightfully so. It prolongs bandster hell. On another forum there are 4 people that have 10-13cc in their Realize bands and they still have no restriction whatsoever. That is concerning to me. I haven't seen that in those with Inamed 4cc bands.

I went to Mexico. I paid $7800 but now that J&J is out they are giving docs a break on the cost of the band as a promotion and most docs are passing the savings on to the patient (well, they are in Mexico). My doc was Aceves out of the San Diego airport and for J&J it is $7250. A friend is getting banded Friday but I believe she is opting for Inamed. Regardless of where you go please read my sig link.

Are you Dr. Schram?

Whoa there... I've been reading your past posts and most of them are pushing one specific doctor, Dr. J. Schram. Just "happens" to be a US surgeon. US surgeons are known to be miffed at the business they are losing to Mexico and it just happens to be that a person who helped to write the Realize web site is a US surgeon who charges $150 for fills on US patients banded by another US doc and he charges $1100 for patients banded in Mexico. You don't think there is a bit of politics here? (Dr. Brad Wilcox) I received a PM from a person wanting to know if I knew that, I did not. I PMed Dr. Wilcox and I still have the previous PMs where he explains this. Discounted price is not the only reason people go to Mexico. We get much more for our money. WAY more. Two nights in a private hospital, all the labs and diagnostics, a great deal more experience with many bands, I could go on and on about that one. There are doctors out there that are taking advantage of fat people just like the starch blocker tablet manufacturers, the companies that are selling one weight loss gimmick after another. Many doctors are no different. And this line of garbage about doctors taking on more liability for doing fills on patients they didn't band... that's a load of steaming horse pooh. I have talked to Bart Bandy, the previous owner of Inamed and current Sr. VP of Allergan and I know the story and the politics behind that one. I am MORE than happy to share everything I know about that one. I have also talked to various state medical boards and medical malpractice insurance co's (including my husband's medical malpractice company) and they flat out deny that there is any truth to this claim at all regarding taking on more liability for filling someone banded outside the US or ANY surgeon for that matter. They essentially say this claim is a load. It comes down to money. It is totally fair for a bariatric surgeon to want the surgery business, that is where the money comes from. Let's be honest here. I don't even have a problem with US docs not taking on patients that were banded anywhere else, that's fair too. But is it really asking too much for them to be honest that this is a money issue? They want the surgery and if they don't get the surgery they don't want to mess with fills. I don't blame them for not wanting to do fills, I blame them for not being honest as to WHY they won't do fills. Fills are time consuming, take up precious and expensive office time. That is a reasonable reason for not doing them. But to claim a liability issue is nothing short of dishonest. It is insanity to believe that bariatrics is the ONLY procedure out there where the surgeons takes on all liability for the initial surgery (supposedly) if he does a fill on a patient he did not band. A little common sense would go a long way here. If I have heart surgery, a total knee replacement, my appendix removed, a heart valve replacement... any surgery out of the country I can find local follow up care in the US with no problem. It is ONLY Bariatrics where desperate people who will just about do or pay anything to be a normal size person... they are the only folks that are US citizens and they cannot obtain medical care in the US especially for cash pay. They are the folks paying $1100 for $5.00 worth of supplies and $50.00 worth of overhead for a lousy fill. The truth here is that some doctors are a little on the greedy side and they don't like that they are losing business to the more experienced surgeons outside the US. The upside to this is that there are many good doctors that recognize the politics going on here and THEY have the ethics not to take advantage of desperate people. Some people wonder why I am so pro-sleeve over banding. This is just another example of why that is. I get my care from my original surgeon, he's driving distance from me even though he is in Mexico. So I am not needing a fill person locally, I have one. But for the people that don't have local fill support a sleeve is a fantastic option for them. The long term complications are much less than for banding and overall, in the end it is usually a cheaper option. The problem is that many in the US have very little experience with this procedure which is fine, Mexico is still an option and a good one. I know this topic inside and out, I know the history, the politics, the game playing, the feuding between Mexican and US surgeons, I know why Mexican surgeons are charged so much less for a band vs. US surgeons and US surgeons are not getting a bad deal when you know the WHOLE story vs. the bits and pieces US surgeons put out there. I am more than happy to go into a detailed and in depth discussion on this topic with any person, MD or patient, any 'ol time (in a new thread, of course). Actually, I think it would make for a great topic but the problem is, thus far no US surgeon has wanted to discuss this issue on the boards (using their REAL name for an ID) because the politics would come out. I do have one question for you. Why do you have soooo many threads pushing Dr. Jon Schram and then in other threads you ask people to go into detail about why they chose Dr. Schram? If you do a search of your posts I believe you will see what I mean. Wouldn't it be nice if the doctors here used their real names? It would give them a bit more credibility. Cheers.

This is not true. The quality of your surgeon means nothing when it comes to slips from barfing/sliming. People who slime and barf all the time are asking for a slip regardless of who their surgeon is. To tell someone if they had a good surgeon they won't slip is completely and totally inaccurate information.

I'm very sorry about your infection. :mad:( Sometimes infection is the doctor's fault, sometimes it's the patient's fault, sometimes stuff just happens and nobody knows why. I'd look at two things. The doc's infection stats, are they out of line? Is there a trend? And... Your comfort level. If you are not comfortable going there then no, don't go. Comfort level has to be primary. Follow your intuition on this one assuming the infection is a freak thing and not the norm. Infections always scare the heck out of me, you think it's completely gone and sometimes it isn't. When placing a foreign object in the body when there has been an infection, it's just one of the things that spooks me a little. Whoever you go to just make sure they put the new port on the other side, a different location. Take care.

Dr. Rumbaut is great. Very experienced, is/was the president of the Mexican version of the American Bariatric society (forget the exact wording of that one), he's banded himself, and his patients seem to like him a great deal. He has the skill and experience necessary as well as training, etc.

Want So Bad... I have to say, that is about the most balanced post I have ever seen regarding Dr. Huacuz. You show you have no complications, no problems. Things went well. You also explain what you did not care for. Very fair. Thanks! RememberMe: Well that clears things up now, doesn't it? :mad:

While I appreciate where you are coming from, Eurita (aka sistergirl, just changed her name) has already admitted she is a patient coordinator to DawnaT and she gets paid for referrals. Perhaps we should ask DawnaT if she falls into the "friends" or "family" categories? She also claims Dr. Huacuz' clinic "seems" like a hospital or surgical center. A hospital and surgical center are not one in the same. A hospital, as advertised by Dr. Huacuz typically has a blood bank, ICU, maybe an emergency room, a pharmacy, etc. A surgery center might have a pharmacy but not the others. My issue is not that he has a clinic, many in Mexico do. We have surgery centers in the US. My issue is the deception in referring to a clinic as a hospital. It gives people the impression that it is something it is not. Just like the deception of hiding facts, paying off patients to not post, claiming/allowing the patient to believe it is the patient's fault for causing her own sleeve leak, claiming complication stats are zero, claiming he has the best stats in Mexico, posing as patients while praising himself on several boards.... the list is endless. Those things are just simply wrong.

I don't know, Snowbird... the face doesn't match the claws. Kitty looks too lazy to fight. :mad:

Huh? Global stats are just that, global. Mexico is included in "global". There are no deaths due to the lapband itself. There are deaths in every country including the US from surgery and other comorbidities, but not the band itself. Some people have a much higher risk and sadly, those people sometimes need the surgery the most. If they are not banded or given some type of WLS they will eat themselves to death. Those with higher risk or more comorbidities can't lose weight without surgery either. So they have a 100% chance of dying from obesity issues or a less than 1% chance of complications from surgery. It's a no brainer, they usually get the surgery. This is not necessarily a reflection on the doctor, you do what you can for a patient and hope it works. That's really what it comes down to for a small minority of people. A *very* small minority and stats prove this. Neveragain: Interesting, would you either post or PM me a link? Thanks!

So you do get paid for it. That IS a patient coordinator. I don't even know 20 people that are friends or family that are obese, wanting surgery, wanting surgery in Mexico, and wanting surgery in Mexico by Dr. Huacuz. Is DawnaT a friend or family member? Which group does she fall within? You get paid for sending 20 people to Huacuz and you have the nerve to suggest that since I have referred four of my own personal friends to Dr. Aceves *I* am the patient coordinator? If I had friends or family that were wanting surgery by my doctor I have to say, I'd rather they get a bit of a break on the surgery by not charging them my commission. But hey, that's just me. We all need an income one way or another. I've always felt that those standing there pointing fingers at the rest of the world claiming everyone "else" does "X" behavior, well I believe the correct term here is projection. Back to the basics, Eureta, I am not Mexican (not that it should matter), I am not a coordinator, I do not get paid for suggesting that Dr. Aceves or Rumbaut are my two picks for surgeons in Mexico, I do not get paid by Dr. Aceves for suggesting that Jose Rodriguez or Zapata are also good surgeons, I am not evil for telling the good and the bad about doctors, I do know how to spell "with", yes I post a lot, and you'll just have to find a way to deal with it all. I do think it's kinda funny that you best shot at a slam is by referring to me, of all people, as a patient coordinator. I mean... all things considered.

Ohhh, I think I know what the OP is referring to. Not a sleeve gastrectomy but a new device that is used for patients before surgery. There are some folks that have a very high BMI and surgery is too risky so they put a device somewhere in the gut (I forget details) and it cuts down on what they absorb. They lose weight and then they can go on for surgery at a lower weight and fewer risks. They had a poll on OH asking us if we would be interested in trying it if it was available. Most newbies said yes, most old timers said no. When they were first considering this the idea was to have this device instead of surgery. The idea being that you have a few months to learn better eating habits, lose weight, then this "thing" is removed and you use your better eating habits to finish losing and maintaining weight. Obviously, that's just dumb. Most of us if we lose our WLS technique (such as a band) we tend to regain. Now they must be considering this device for higher BMI folks so they can lose weight and have a less risky surgery. Personally, I wouldn't do it but my BMI wasn't high enough to warrant it. I'd just stick with the actual WLS and leave it at that. But I'm not everyone and there are some folks who could probably benefit from it. But it's not the same as an actual sleeve procedure, it's a sleeve that goes in part of the intestine to prevent food absorption if I recall correctly. Kinda like a temporary bypass procedure. It can only be left in for a few months and then has to be removed.

Excellent post, absolutely perfect! Getting a fill that is too tight leads to slips and possibly erosion. To encourage this behavior is not great. I think it is true that we have behavioral issues to deal with and that is the real key in weight loss, not forced starvation. I'll bet you are a great nurse in real time, Faith!

It's good to see you here. (((HUGS)))

How does it sound like I work for Dr. Aceves? I don't push him, matter of fact I don't even discuss him unless asked. I do push research but if you look through my posts you'll see that I also say Rumbaut is just as good as Aceves. Rodriguez (Jose) is okay as well. Zapata is good. I say positive things about all four of them. Please, feel free to explain how this means I work for Aceves. I think if I worked for Aceves while telling people Rumbaut is just as good I might get fired, don't you think? Who wrote the following, Eureta? Ohhhh, that would be you, wouldn't it? You have referred 18 bands and 2 sleeves to Huacuz. I have referred 4 of my personal friends to Aceves. Who is the coordinator here? Didn't you actually tell DawnaT that you are a coordinator for Huacuz? Gotta love the almighty dollar. You keep sending people to Huacuz, k? I don't spell "with" as "whit", those posts were from your boss, not me. I'm not Mexican, I'm German. However, I have met a great many people from this board in real time. Would you like references to determine my skin color? As if it matters? I don't have to work hard to show Huacuz is bad, his coordinators and his past patients do a pretty good job of that themselves. BTW, how is that infection? You know, the one you got from the Huacuz clinic after your own plastic surgery? Wasn't it you that was there for a month due to infection? I hope you are feeling better.

Okay, first of all swallowing a tablet is not going to cause a leak. Even if it was to cause a leak, why would a doctor give a tablet to a patient who wasn't supposed to swallow them? When I was in the hospital any meds we were given were liquid or they crushed the tablet before giving it to us. This is basic nursing 101. Don't give the patients things they aren't supposed to have. The leak would happen from pressure from food that is heavy, heavy enough to cause pressure along the weakest point of the staple line and rip tissue. A tablet is not going to do that. It just isn't. If sips of Water won't do it, a tablet won't either. I'm quite sure Adrienne did feel she was getting good care in the beginning, the infection hadn't kicked in and she wasn't critically ill at that point. She didn't know she had a leak, a pending infection, a stomach that couldn't be sewn up at that point, people weren't talking her into staying instead of going to a fully equipped hospital, and nobody was writing harassing comments on her OH blog, either. (ahem)