WASaBubbleButt

On another thread the poster explained he'll fix it for $7K. I think that is the frustration.

While I don't blame you for not wanting to go back there, in all fairness you still haven't told us how the slip was his fault. Sometimes slips are the fault of the surgeon, sometimes they are the fault of the patient, sometimes stuff just happens. What (specifically) did he do to cause your slip? Would you provide more details? I've asked you this previously and you declined to respond.

Many surgeons are really great! We all tend to prefer the surgeon we went to unless there were mega surgical problems. Congrats on the baby!

Yes, unfortunately you have to prove the band was defective before it's removed in order for Inamed to pay all the expenses. That's pretty hard to do. So when you have the band removed then you send it to an independent 3rd party for examination and if it was a defect by Inamed they should pay for all your expenses. I would not send the band directly to Inamed as they can then say anything they want. If it was a surgical error your surgeon should be paying. Where (specifically) is the leak?

But... It's not the belt that would crease. If you put a plastic liner along the inside of the belt, put it around something that is not round, put pressure inside the plastic bubble liner pushing against your body, it could easily crease. But really, who cares? What does it matter if it has a little crease in there or not? It does not cause erosion in Inamed, why would these same creases only cause erosion in J&J bands? This makes no sense. Maybe I missed it (could be) but I've asked Isuza to provide proof this causes erosion in J&J and not Inamed and yet... nothing.

Ohhhhhh, I haven't even read all the replies yet but please, do tell her to come here and we can have a chat. You know, an actual nurse to "student" kinda chat. Let's see what she actually knows about banding and WLS in general. Please tell her to bring her books for this one, she'll need them.

I do it the LAZY way! Romaine lettuce hearts, cooked chicken breast, I like to add cheese cubes but that's not true CCS, and Girards brand Chinese Chicken Salad Dressing. OMG, great stuff! It comes in the grocery store in a glass triangle bottle. They have several brands, one looks like it's the right stuff and it's not. This one actually has the words, "Chinese Chicken Salad Dressing" on the label. The other says "Oriental" or something like that. That's not the stuff. Sometimes I add this stuff called "Just Garlic" to it as well. It's like bacon bits but it's dried garlic. You get dragon breath but it's great! I order that on line. I also buy manderine (sp?) oranges in the individual serving cups, dump the liquid and add the oranges sometimes. You can get those hard crunchy oriental noodles if you wish. Hope that helps. I'm into fast and easy. If it isn't fast and idiot proof, I don't do it. ;o) Another good one is to get your lettuce of choice, put some tuna salad on one side of the lettuce and Cesar dressing on the other side. Add some onions and parmesan cheese... good stuff. I've learned to be the salad queen! I love salads of all kinds, tuna, chicken, veggie, lettuce, anything. Love 'em!

Ellisa... The frustration I have with your posts is that you are changing my words around, claiming they are mine, and then agreeing with them. You are taking bits and pieces of comments and then honing in on them vs. the entire message. HERE is what I have written many times, but amazingly you declined to highlight it in red and point it out like other bits and pieces of posts: Or this: Cheers.

Once again, that is not what I wrote, you write that and continue giving me credit for your words. Many surgeons don't want to take anyone they did not band, regardless of country. It's getting much better, but there is a way to go yet. Much seems to depend on state. TX seems to be the worst from what I have read here.

Are you aware that there is no proof of what causes erosion? There are only theories. They used to think caffeine caused erosion, now they know better. They used to think smoking caused it. Now they know better. Then for some time they thought NSAIDs caused it, now they know better. The Inamed band has creases between each little bubble and that has not demonstrated to cause erosion, how would creases in a different band cause the problem? Where is the proof that the Realize band causes erosion? Where is the proof that one won't lose as much weight unless they have a non-Realize band?

Nahhh... not a deep area of concern, but certainly a pet peeve of mine. But then I have a thing about honesty too and especially honesty in the medical profession. Nobody has a right to be anything but honest if they are in medicine. However, I did not point out that it's expensive to get fills if surgery was in Mexico... that is your claim. I said I have a problem with doctors that take advantage of patients. Most doctors do not do this. I can get a fill from my original surgeon for $75, I can go to a nurse practitioner for $100 here in Phoenix, I can go 15 miles to a bariatric surgeon for $250 (after paying a $1500 one time program fee to see the psych, nut, etc.), or I can go to Flagstaff and see a doc using fluoro for $200. I haven't looked beyond that because I have my "emergency" plan in place. Quite frankly, those banded in the US need an emergency plan as well. If your doc dies or retires you will have the same issues I have. Finding another bariatric surgeon to do your fills won't be any easier than a Mexican banded patient finding a fill place. I'm very pro-Mexico for those that can't or won't stay in the US for surgery. If done right, it can be very nice, safe, and affordable. Comparing greedy plastic surgeons to greedy bariatric surgeons is like comparing apples to oranges. One surgeons saves lives and one makes them pretty until they die. ;o) Sorry you had such a complicated hernia repair, they are usually one stitch. Two at best. They are extremely common in obese folks, obesity is a huge cause for hiatal hernias.

Bands don't work for some people and they convert to bypass. Sleeves don't work for some people and they convert to bypass. It's not a last step surgery. Yep, it does require removing the better part of your stomach and in the beginning of my own WLJ that was an issue for me. But now that I'm at goal I'm realizing that I'm trying to figure out what's so great about reversible. Why would I ever want to be MO again? The only reason to remove a band is for band related problems. Slips, erosion, etc. So if the band itself causes problems you remove it. There is no band with sleeves. We struggle with fills and unfills, restriction issues, etc. to get what sleeves have from the day of surgery. With a sleeve it is like perfect restriction all the time without fills or unfills. If that does not work it won't work in banded folks either so the next option would be bypass. I kinda view my stomach as a faulty organ. It was never my friend. ;o) It holds too much food, it caused me too much frustration and emotional pain, it was a useless part of me. With a sleeve there is a nerve that is affected and it makes you rarely hungry. Most of us can deal with head hunger but it's the stomach hunger most MO folks do not tolerate AT ALL. With a sleeve there is virtually no stomach hunger, they just have head hunger to battle. An appendix is part of your GI system as well yet we have no problem removing that when it is faulty but a portion of our stomach seems unbearable to fathom. It's weird... I just realize that now that I'm at goal my thinking is much much different vs. in the beginning. Something I sure didn't expect to happen.

What insurance pays vs. what private pay folks pay are two very different issues. Private pay is better, hands down. No insurance issues to deal with, less overhead, cash in hand. Insurance co's negotiate fees on reasonable prices paid for that geographical location. Hernia repairs... that's one stitch. One single stitch. Most docs in the US charge extra for that single stitch but in Mexico they do not. It's all part of banding. I had a hiatal hernia, didn't know it, and he told me about it after he fixed it. Mexico wages... true. The average nurse makes $500/month and the average doctor in Mexico makes $1K/month. But those are averages. Along the border averages no longer count. Sure, it's cheaper but not as much as most would think. The private hospital I was at is one of the more expensive hospitals in Mexico. Along the border it is not as cheap as you would think. The nicer the town the more expensive it will be. Tijuana is going to have a lower cost of living than Mexicali for example, but the fees are the same regardless to patients (for the better docs, the trashy ones charge $6K+ for people shopping by price vs. skill). Clearly, the doc has overhead. That isn't my point. Cost of living is increasing yet the cost of banding is decreasing. In 2001 docs were charging $30K for banding because they COULD get it. They can't get that today so they have to lower their fees to something more reasonable. Look at it this way, they had less overhead for banding in the beginning because virtually no insurance company covered it. Most were cash pay. There is less overhead with cash pay. Some were getting $30K for a lousy band. Today they have more overhead because insurance is starting to cover banding more now than ever. Yet they are charging half what they used to and still making money! Good money at that! It's greed. I'm not saying bariatric surgeons should not make a buck. They don't go to work daily for their health, it's a living. They should make an income. That's not my issue. My issue is the greed involved. $30K for banding because they could get it. They did not lower prices because band makers are reimbursing them the difference, they are lowering prices or they wouldn't have any business. Bariatrics is the only speciality in medicine where greed is still okay. Docs can claim their medical malpractice insurance does not cover doing fills for those banded out of the country but since when does medical malpractice say if you were born in Mexico you can't get medical care here? Hello??? A little common sense goes a long way but these docs don't think about the obvious, they often times assume we are all stupid and will believe anything they say. They are miffed that people went to another surgeon for banding (the money maker) and wants fills (not a money maker) in the US. I don't blame them, they are in a business. My issue is not the docs not doing fills for folks they did not band. My issue is the honesty factor. Flat out admit that if they can't have the surgery business they don't want the fill business. It's fair, there is nothing wrong with their feeling that way. But damnit, quit treating us like we are a bunch of idiots that don't know better and have no common sense. Terry Simpson started this line of crap on another forum just a couple of days ago and I confronted him about the medical malpractice issue and now he won't come back to the thread. Threaten some of these docs with honesty and call them on their BS and they run away with their tail between their legs. I asked for proof of his many claims and he never returned to the thread. ;o) Brad Wilcox was posting here claiming he'd do fills on anyone regardless of where they were banded. He didn't mention he charges $1100 for fills! This was a PM conversation we had. He claimed he was unaware his office manager was charging this. Bahh... I'm not an idiot but he is greedy. ;o) He doesn't know his own fee structure that he set up? Com'on.... He said that his "office manager" didn't think it was fair that Mexican banded folks get a "cheap" surgery and then not have to pay up the way US banded folks do. What a load, he assumes it is his responsibility to charge people for having surgery in Mexico as some sort of punishment and then he reaps the rewards of punishing people? And again, he claims he didn't know he set his own fees up this way. He can charge whatever he wants, if he gets takers on that one is a different story. But the point is honesty. Is honesty such a horror? And since I didn't build his swimming pool in my surgery I got a cheap surgery? I got a great surgery by someone far more experienced than he in a luxury hospital with two nights of hospitalization vs. shoving me out the door when I woke up. These doctors are not thinking these issues through. Treating us like we are that stupid is not wise. Dishonesty is never wise. Assuming none of us have common sense is not wise. It's insulting and nothing more. I don't expect US surgeons to fill Mexican banded patients. They are in this to make money and that is completely and totally fair. My issue is assuming since we didn't pay ridiculous prices for something that should not be that expensive we got a "cheap" surgery? I'm only asking for honesty, it's a money issue. US docs are miffed (and rightfully so) that they are losing money to the more experienced surgeons out of the country. But it wasn't cheap and it certainly was not inferior. It was a fair price for a quality surgery. As patients that is what we want and need. If they don't like it then they can do what Dr. K does in CO and charge fair prices for a quality surgery. How can some justify $17K for cash pays when Dr. K is charging $9950 for cash pay folks? Tell me greed isn't a factor, it is! CO has a very high cost of living. Docs are business people like everyone else and they will charge what they can get. That's how business works. And patients are consumers in this case and we have to choose what is right for us. In my case insurance would have covered banding. But it would have meant jumping through hoops, waiting it it out, and going to a surgeon I wasn't thrilled with. I have the money so I went to the surgeon I wanted, the one with the skill, experience, and background I was looking for and paid cash. It was my decision, my money, and I did what was right for me. Many US docs clearly don't like losing the business but you know what? It's like anything else, people go where they want for their own reasons. Grocery stores don't like customers going to their competition either. But that's how it works. This is another reason for sleeves. No political crap, no BS, just get the sleeve and go on with your life. Minimal aftercare issues for the most part. I wish I would have done it. Not to say my band hasn't been a fantastic tool for me, it has. But I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing the politics of banding and been quite happy. ;o)

You can eat sugar with a sleeve and you don't dump. That's bypass. With a sleeve you still have to watch everything that goes in your mouth like banding.

Psssssssssssst........ OP isn't asking about bypass vs. banding, they are asking about a sleeve vs. banding. BTW... OP... the newer bands are not promised to have fewer problems. There are virtually NO long term studies on the new bands because they haven't been around long enough to have large long term studies. The stuff about feeling full faster, fewer slips... it's all hype at this point. Band makers hire many marketing folks to make bands appeal to us. A band is a band, it restricts food. It isn't going to make you feel full faster than another band. That's pouch size and has nothing in the world to do with banding but surgical technique by your surgeon. The rest is sales pitch, hype, and theory.

No, it wouldn't happen from the instruments. All the instruments are placed under the rib cage. Something else happened. The instruments aren't really forced in there but I understand it looks as though they are. ;o) It's actually not difficult because they aren't having to go through a great deal of muscle. It's mostly fat and fat is like butter with a sharp instrument. I'm interested in the broken rib and how the heck that happened!

It's easy for others to say that we can do it on our own but quite frankly, if we could we would have done so a long time ago. I am quite sure your husband loves you for who you are and that is all well and good. But are you comfortable where you are? I wasn't, my big fat butt did no fit into chairs well, I would walk into a room and was fully aware that people did not see me, the person... walk into a room. They saw the fat girl walk in the room. I'd go shopping with friends and they were buying cute clothes and it was so much fun. Then we'd go to the tent store (Lane Giant) and I'd buy crappy fugly clothes. Most of all my obsession with food was overwhelming. I'd be eating Breakfast thinking about what I'd have for lunch. I'd eat lunch and think about what I'd have for dinner. I'd go to restaurants and order the biggest item on the menu, not something I really wanted, I ordered by quantity. I wanted to get a grip on all those issues. Today I still have food issues and the compulsion and obsession never really went away but the difference is that today I have much more control over it than I used to. Food no longer controls me or runs my life. So I really do understand about your husband loving you for what and who you are, that's great. But what about everything else? We ALL wonder if WLS is the right thing and if it will work. We ALL wonder if it is just another gimmick or something we will fail at like everything else. You just have to find the right surgery for your eating habits and go from there. Sometimes you just have to trust your gut feelings and try what is available. Good luck to you~

Wait a minute, he went to the expense of having a seminar to recruit patients and then he claims if you talk to him he'll talk you out of it? How many seminars have you been to? You really should meet lots of doctors, they are NOT all created equally. ;o)

Have you taken him to a vet for this?

I never claimed or inferred you shouldn't listen to him. Other docs with the same experience merely disagree. That was my only point, that and trying to understand his thinking.

No, that doesn't really have anything to do with drug companies. That has to do with greed. When banding was first around (and one doc still attempts to charge this here in the Phoenix area) they were charging $30K for the band. Everyone was going to Mexico where it was farrrr more reasonable and the surgeons were vastly more experienced in banding and aftercare. US docs have HAD to lower their prices or they have no business. Your doc charged $17K three months ago, my Mexican surgeon charged me $7800 15 months ago and that included a night in the hotel the evening before and two nights in a private hospital after surgery. Why do you think there is so much drama between US surgeons and Mexican surgeons? The US surgeons blast them at every opportunity with huge and silly claims. They do that to keep the patients in the US, it's not working but they try. Kirshenbaum is getting busier and busier and it's because he's a good surgeon with a fair price. Kirshenbaum has been charging $9950 and CO is expensive for cost of living. Your doc charges $17K. See what I mean? Docs have no choice but to charge more reasonable prices for surgery. Consider this, the band has always cost US docs the same, between $3500-$4K. Yet they were charging $30K for a 30 minute procedure. ??? Do you really think doing the absolute easiest surgical procedure in bariatrics deserves $30K for 30 minutes? Docs want to make $1K a minute, but it was due to doctors outside the US that forced them to be a little more reasonable. Not drug companies. I swear, bariatrics has the most greedy of all doctors. The $1100 fills by Dr. Brad Wilcox (current) to the $1K/minute for the easiest procedure to do requiring the least skill in bariatrics. It's all about greed.

I don't think that is fair. How many times have you done the same thing? Looked at a drug addict and wondered why they started drugs to begin with? Or an alcoholic and wondered why they don't just quit? There are a million similar examples. We have an eating disorder in my opinion and just like alcoholics we don't get help usually until it is out of control. We all think we can do it on our own. I didn't relate to fat people either until I was one. I did not understand why they didn't just quit eating. Typically in society we hear "eating disorder" and think anorexia. It goes the other way too. I'll never relate to wanting to get another good drunk in, I'll never relate to missing cocaine. I wouldn't fully relate until I had the same experience. Same holds true for fat folks.

You might find that with weight loss others see the difference but you do not. It doesn't seem like we are shrinking as much as we are. In reality, the difference is pretty big. We are the ones doing all the work and we are also the folks that can't see the difference as well as others. I'll bet you a dollar that is the case here. You don't realize how much you are shrinking. I have a similar experience. If you go to the "At or Near Goal" forum I started a thread a few months ago entitled, "OMG, How Crazy Am I?" I saw my reflection in a piece of glass and had no clue it was me. Freakiest darn thing I ever experienced. I was shopping with friends and we all walked by a huge plate glass window. I saw the reflection of all of us and picked out one and thought ... If I could just get to THAT size I'd be thrilled. Then I realized... that was me. I was looking at me and had no idea. It's a weird thing that I think most of us go through. So it isn't weird, your scars are kinda moving. As you lose belly fat they tend to drop down a bit more than they did at the time of surgery. It's a good thing!

Hmmm... I'm not sure I understand the thinking behind that one. It's not the sutures that hold the band in place long term, it is adhesions. The problem with slips is that often times the adhesions are torn and with scarring, scars are never quite as strong as they were the first time. This is the reason that once someone slips they stand a greater chance for a 2nd slip. The adhesions are not of the same quality when they are growing from the same place a 2nd time. Some slips require surgical repair, most do not. Most docs do not put a patient through a 2nd surgery when an unfill will do the same thing.

One thought... stick to liquids the day of your fill. Liquids before and liquids after. If you have been eating your stoma would not be the same as if you have not been eating. It really makes a big difference.