WASaBubbleButt

I questioned the same thing when I read Grace's statement. How does that make sense? His business ethics are really bad and he's a big fat liar, he's been caught time and time again with very questionable business practices such as paying people not to post the truth about their experiences but amazingly, in OR he totally changes and digs deep to find a thread of integrity. Yeah, I don't think so. There are several good and skilled surgeons in Mexico. Huacuz simply isn't one of them.

I agree and I disagree. The guys motives and presentation are obviously questionable. Does anyone really have a doubt about that? I don't think so. But his medical history... that's a whole different ball game. I don't think we have a right to tear him to shreds and claim his medical issues couldn't possibly have happened when 1) we don't have his medical records sitting in front of us and 2) Look at the people claiming this is impossible and they have virtually no medical knowledge? We have people who are EMTs claiming they know what happens in surgery! Since when are EMTs actively in surgery for a career? That would make them OR staff, not EMTs. Same with anyone else. They are using common sense but with limited medical knowledge. If it doesn't make sense then it can't be. But it doesn't make sense because there are some that don't realize there is a difference between perforations and embedded foreign objects. We are slam dunking this guy NOT just on his presentation and motives, but we are claiming medical knowledge we don't have. Slam dunk him for what is wrong, but don't assume it's all wrong. That's just not fair. It will only serve to stop others with legit problems from posting and then newbies really don't have a balanced view of banding during their research.

I agree with much of what you write. As I have alluded in most every post I've written on the topic I'm not convinced his presentation or motives are on the up and up. But you know, I guess I have to draw from what I have watched over the years. Ever see someone with a hangnail? You know, not just a regular person but those with drama? They don't just have a hangnail, oh no no no! Their finger was almost sliced off! And those with a headache? No, they never have just a headache, they have a MIGRAINE! When they take Motrin the MIGRAINE goes away. Amazingly, Motrin does not typically work for a true migraine, it works for a headache. But a headache just isn't good enough. Ever seen a coworker go through the drama dance when they have a cold? You'd think they were dying! The moaning and groaning, when someone walks by and sees them their symptoms suddenly get worse. When nobody is watching... they have a simple cold. It's the drama. As I wrote in my very first post on the other thread, I suspect much of this is drama. It's an attention getter, it attracts sympathy. Many patients do it. I know someone that was banded recently and I went with her for her banding. She was fine while she was walking through the halls but if her nurse or MD passed her in the halls she was suddenly hanging onto the walls because she was going to faint. As soon as the RN or MD was out of sight she was fine again. People do it all the time. It's common. One of the most amusing examples was an older man I had for a patient. I knew the man well and knew he was really into drama. He was hobbling down the hallway using a walker. The man didn't NEED a walker. I ignored the hobbling, grunting, etc. and just kept going at the pace I knew he usually had. He finally got sick of me ignoring the drama and actually said, "Oh the hell with it!" He picked up his walker, held it over his head through a crowded hallway and ran to catch up with me. The attention seeking wasn't working and he didn't even try to hide his frustration with the situation. So maybe I'm just used to it but that is a great deal of what I see in this guy. I think he has legit problems and the talk shows, etc... drama. Trying to make it seem like there was no way an infection happens and his is rare... well, it isn't rare. They happen all the time. I question if there were errors on both their parts. The patient and surgeon. For an infection to get so out of hand that the port pops through the skin.. that went on for awhile. The patient should have had it treated no matter what it took and the surgeon should have treated it no matter what it took. I have issues with that part of the problem. We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and that includes we patients. The motives... I'm not impressed with the person on that end either. If he goes on TV (assuming anyone cares about the story) and takes the stance that WLS is bad, evil, and dangerous... that's karma and that one is on him. If he scares people away from good surgeons for a life saving procedure in the name of the almighty dollar... the universe will get him back and rightfully so. If he wants to point out the obvious that "shit happens" and that includes WLS... I doubt anyone will be interested. If there is a medical malpractice case then for a TV talk show... they are a dime a dozen. The only way to present it so the public wants to hear is harping on the dangers and evils of WLS. Only someone like Oprah who is so anti-WLS that she won't do anything serious about her own problem would be interested in such a story. If deceit is what it takes to sell his ebook, there isn't a lot we can do. But to assume he can't be telling the truth about the actual medical problems and slam dunking him by being an armchair doctor presuming to have information we simply don't have is wrong. People have done it to me and I'll be damned if I'll sit by and watch it to someone else. It's weird, when it comes to WLS, many are so overly protective of their surgery type they just won't permit anyone to say anything bad about their surgery type or their doctor. It's almost like an insecurity thing, if it happened to someone else it could happen to them. It's spooky! We all fear this isn't going to work and we might get fat again. I think I could have handled not losing any weight better than I would cope with losing it and gaining it all back again. I just don't agree with slam dunking someone with problems. Is he weird? Well, yeah. He is. Are his motives great? I don't think so. But you know, we get a lot of odd folks around here and we don't slam dunk them all. We get people with big stories and outlandish claims but we don't go after him like we have this guy. But this guy is different, he's speaking out about problems with a band that any of us could potentially experience and the only thing I can come up with is a fear that we will experience the same or that the newbies might discover banding isn't all sweetness and light and there are issues with banding. Many don't want the newbies to know, they want everyone to have the same shot at weight loss they have and since complications are low, why scare the newbies? That's just not right. So all in all, I agree with you. And I agree with you about the Mexico thing too. It's insulting when someone is ignorant enough and lazy enough that they can't be bothered with researching anything. They believe what the media spoon feeds them and if 20/20 says it's so, by God it's so! No reading required, no personal effort required. The media teaches them everything they need to know in life. It's insulting that people would think I went to Mexico for price and I didn't give a shit about my health. I didn't go there for price, my insurance would have paid for my surgery. Or I could have gone private pay in Phoenix. I thought this was my last shot at weight loss and I wanted the best of the best with no hassles and a fair price. I got that. So when people assume that Mexicans are too stupid to do a safe surgery it is the same as telling me I am an idiot that doesn't know how to pick out a doctor. I'll bet I know how to pick out a doctor better than 95% of the people posting here. So that is another reason it is insulting. It also makes us look like a country full of bigots when people make stupid comments about places outside the US. It goes to show we don't know anything about any country including our own. Okay, rant over for now. ;o)

Banding has problems, no way around that. There are erosions, slips, pouch/esophagus disation, infections, port issues, etc. But it still isn't anywhere near the issues bypass has. Not sure why you would have wanted bypass with the complications those folks often have. Kathystrick: Only problem I have with statistics regarding banding is that there are so few "recent" stats. Inamed is willing to discuss it, mention it, or bring it up at Bandster bashes but they aren't very good at putting the newest stats in writing. They are claiming stats are going up such as slips more than doubling. If slips are doubling with a better surgical technique, what about other issues? I think one of the long term issues banding is going to produce is esophageal complications such as motility issues. I don't think the band has been around long enough for us to know what our futures hold. But we also knew this going in as well. I knew it, it's obvious. If something hasn't been around for 20 years then we don't know what will happen 20 years from now. Many esophageal issues are coming to light, some people experience them sooner than others. But just the way the band works, they should have seen this one coming. In my heart I honestly don't believe the band is a forever tool. I think it is a great shot at weight loss within the weight loss industry and I think they are getting closer, but I don't feel it will be forever. I'm not sure any tool is going to be forever. We won't know until people have been using the tools for a lifetime.

Thank you. A voice of reason.

Pix... how much OR experience do you have? How many surgeries have you performed? How many "perfs" have you repaired? How many have you seen repaired? I've been an OR Trauma nurse and a Trauma ICU nurse. I've seen many. You? How many erosions have you personally seen that causes sepsis in lightening speed? Again, he never claimed he had a "perfed" colon. A perforation is much different from what he is explaining. I have a real problem with the extremes everyone is going to here. People with no or minimal medical knowledge are just certain this guy can't be telling the truth and they are going into medical detail to explain why. And you know what? You guys are dead wrong. Your EMT experience is not going to touch this one, this one requires more knowledge than an EMT has. This guy might or might not be telling the truth. But when it comes to major issues like this I prefer to stay on the side of... he might f'ing well be telling the truth so perhaps the abuse is not justified.

I have to jump in here. You know, the above is just plain insulting. It is a bit like saying, "Wow, you are REALLY ugly (but if you are ugly I'm not knocking it, btw)". Mexico has some mega fine hospitals and doctors, some are better than your average doc in the US. There are a couple of docs that have referred very complicated cases to my doc in Mexico because he COULD handle them. Let's not forget, it was mostly the Mexican surgeons that not only perfected the band, they perfected the surgical technique to what YOU have now, and they trained the first US surgeons in banding. I'm sick to death of any bad thing that happens with any WLS, some idiot jumps in and says, "Oh, did they have surgery in Mexico?" So far each and every bloody time I have read that the person had surgery in the US. Amazingly, it's totally freak'en possible to have surgery in Mexico and unbelievably, it's damned safe. Safer than many US surgeons. It is sheer bigotry to assume that if something bad happens a Mexican must have done the surgery. On OH right now there are two threads about how a doctor placed a band around a wad of fat instead of the stomach. Two patients! Of course, the first question that was asked was, "Did you have surgery in Mexico?" WTF? What does surgery in Mexico have to do with it? Both were operated on by doctors in the good 'ol USA. I'm sick of it, it's nothing but ignorance and bigotry when people are so uneducated and unenlightened about places outside the US. Do some research people! I did, you can do it too! There are many very good doctors in Mexico. One can be Mexican and skilled at the same time. Honest. I have worked in the US medical system for 25 years. You are just plain wrong. I have worked at a hospital here in Phoenix, AZ (County hospital in Phoenix) where medical records were not transferred with an NICU baby that was dying due to lack of care and crappy medical care while in the hospital and the records were not released until the damage control team (lawyers) went over the records and changed them so the care didn't look as shitty as it was. Was that the care you refer to when you write of how careful hospitals are? I'm here to tell you, that is not rare, it happens all the time. I always tell people with problems to try and get copies of the records from the nurse before discharge. They have a way of changing after the hospital lawyers take a look. The care is not always better here because it is the US. The LACK of care or crappy care is just covered up better. The doctor may have blown it, I don't know. I suspect he did not remove the excess tubing at the time of surgery. Bands come with extra long tubing and it should be trimmed before closing the patient. What happened with this guy wouldn't be much different from erosion. There is no pain with erosion, no bruising, nothing. Most people figure out something is wrong when they start gaining weight or when a ton of fills doesn't touch their restriction. Nope, no pain... nada. Just like what this guy is claiming with his colon. Erosion does not have to take a long time to happen, it can happen in months. Same with tubing embedding in a colon. See above. The tubing comes in excess. They use part of it during surgery for other uses but most of the excess is merly cut off and removed. So no, it would not be as likely as winning the lottery and getting struck by lightening at the same time. If so, every eroded patient could say the same. What's erosion now, 1.3%? Actually, those are outdated stats, who knows what they are now. Since the US has started banding slip stats have doubled according to Inamed. No, bottom line is that many who do not have medical knowledge are making assumptions based on... nothing. What if this guy is for real? We have treated a fellow banded person like complete shit and why? Are we afraid he might be telling the truth and this could happen to us? The higher BMIs do not necessarily need malabsorptive. If a band and sleeve have very similar 5 year weight loss stats, why is malabsorptive superior to restrictive? The surgical risk alone makes bypass dangerous for the super-obese. It's MORE dangerous, that does not prove your theory to be true that the higher BMIers need malabsorptive. You know, many of us (and I used to be one) sit there smug feeling like we picked the most safe procedure out there. That might or might not be true. Initial surgical risk for banding is indeed the safer option. BUT... 30 days after surgery a sleeve person has drastically fewer risks and complications than a banded person. Not as safe as we might like to believe. I may not agree with the guy's technique or maybe even motives. I don't know all the facts so I can't say. I can say what he is saying is totally possible and we have treated him worse than we would dog crap. Not very nice of fellow bandsters. It is human natures to not want bad things to happen to ourselves, fair enough. But if this guy is for real, what have we done? You know, I'm having band problems too. I'm at a point where I can't quit losing weight. That's just one of the many problems that have happened over the last two months. I was posting on another board (private board) about this issue while explaining that I am eating chocolate and ice cream just to stop losing weight. I am considering a revision to another procedure so I can maintain instead of losing weight. An oh-so-bright idiot decided that I shouldn't post anymore because I am not supportive of the band, I dared to tell of problem issues. Mind you... not to newbies, but to band vets only. Newbies can't even read this board. She then told me that I am obviously anorexic with body image issues because I don't want to just remove my band and get fat again. I should wait until I'm fat before revising to another procedure for maintenance. If I was anorexic, shouldn't I be keeping things the way they are so I can continue losing? Common sense isn't her forte in life. How do you think that made me feel? I will tell you, I now only go into detail about my situation with friends because they are safe, unlike posting on a board such as this. What you guys are doing to this guy is NO different from what the other person on another board did to me. I just hope you are never in the position I am in, your fellow posters will be heartless. And for what reason? Only thing I can come up with is fear that it might be true and it might happen to them.

Who in Mexico won't band someone under 35? Their standard of care is the same as Australia, 30BMI or more, period. That is with or without comorbidities. Individual docs may vary but I haven't heard of anyone not banding under 35. Not to say there aren't any, I just haven't heard of them. It's only the US that requires 35 w/comorb or 40 w/o.

Wait a minute... Since when is obesity a healthy size? If the OP is a 30BMI they are beyond the healthy range and beyond overweight and into obese. There is no way you are going to tell me that obese is healthy, it is not. It's only the US surgeons that require MORBID obesity to do surgery, other countries only require a 30BMI for surgery. Mexico, Australia, etc. I wish I would have been banded at a 30BMI instead of 42. Would have made my life much easier.

Either you qualify or you don't. A note isn't going to make a bit of difference one way or another. I didn't know they covered banding, I thought it was just bypass. Did they change their coverage?

Glycogen is a type of carbohydrate stored in the muscle and liver. When people lose massive amounts of weight in short periods of time especially right after banding, it is usually due to glycogen. For every gram of glycogen burned it requires 4gms of Water so in essence, 80% of FAST weight loss is water, 20% is glycogen, and then comes fat. Without the liver shrinking diet the liver is engorged, slippery, and slimy. It makes surgery very difficult at best and also very dangerous for the patient. A lower BMI person can potentially have a very fatty liver but it is more common the higher your BMI. The only thing that really gets rid of glycogen is going low carb. I have yet to find a study that supports liquid diets over low carb. I don't understand why docs do this. There is no value in liquid over low carb. I don't know if they want to see commitment or what their reasoning is. Keeping in mind that each doc is different, mine has people with a BMI of 40 or more do the diet and his is 30gms carbs max per day, low fat, adequate Protein, and unlimited calories. So basically you could eat 20 chickens if you wanted to. But, each doctor is different. If your suggests all liquid, ask why? Ask how that is more beneficial over basic Atkins for liver shrinking. Make him explain his reasoning. Ask him for studies to show all liquids or all yogurt is superior for liver shrinking. If he gives them to you, post them. I'd love to see them.

Also a band that was too small for the person to begin with and a fill that is too tight. Those can do it as well.

Wow... 50 whole bands, eh? ;o) If you ask the mega experienced surgeons (those with 1000 bands or more) they will typically tell you that they felt "experienced" at about 250-500 bands. No way would I go to someone with less than 250 bands. Someone who has done 50 bands hasn't been doing them long enough to have slips or erosions, as you quickly figured out. ;o))))) I think it is a combination of new docs wanting a piece of the banding pie and poor post op diet compliance that has caused slips to more than double. There are many complications out there and they do seem to be increasing. I blame it on docs that want a piece of the $$ bariatric pie and they are inexperienced. There is a learning curve to the band and follow up care is critical as well. With 50 bands the doc doesn't even have enough patients to develop a great after care program.

Mine was $7800 and I went to Dr. Aceves in Mexicali. Be very careful, the worst places in Mexico charge in the $6500 range.

Please see my sig link and please, not "cheap" because in the US or Mexico, cheap usually means crappy surgeon. This especially holds true in Mexico.

Mexico, $7900 and that includes two nights in the hospital. I'd check out Dr. Aceves in Mexicali Dr. Rumbaut in Monterrey and Dr. Zapata in Monterrey All excellent surgeons.

Grace, more than one or two have posted on these very boards! What you write is simply not true. Not even close.

Read the rest of this poster's posts to get an idea of what he is all about. There is a great deal more to his "story" than what he is telling here. Cosmos... you went to the surgeon with the most erosions... probably world wide. You eroded, it's a complication of banding. Global stats are 1.3%. It happened to you. I'm sorry for that. You also wanted an additional surgery for free, it didn't happen, wouldn't have happened in the US either. Quit spamming the boards with half truths. It's growing annoying. Your surgeon has a 20% erosion stat. That means one in five. There was a reason for that at one time, his stats have improved. He's probably in line with other surgeons now but his stats are still poor for erosion. Dr. Aceves has had 1 or 2 erosions in 2000+ bands. See the difference?

There are doctors that are cheaper but you have to remember, if they are going much cheaper than what you write, they are basing their patient base on those searching for price and not skill. Sure, there are cheaper doctors. I wouldn't send my dog to them but then, I love my dog. ;o) I went to Aceves too, I think he's great.

Oh, com'on... be honest! you aren't telling the whole story here. Check out this posters other posts to see the REST of his bizarre story.

Mexican banded patients have gone to this guy: Dr. Rex Luttrell 800 594 9890 / (501) 552 - 4870 8907 Kanis Rd Ste 110 - Little Rock, AR 72205 Arkansas $150 plus $250 for flouro Does fills on Tuesdays & Wednesdays and: Dr. Clay Wellborn 877 663 9600 Ask for Jamie drclaywellborn.com

Actually, you slammed all nurses. *I* am the one that has tried to be very supportive of you regardless of the stuff you have posted. You have shared some of your story with me in PMs. Just due to the original problem I don't need all the gory details, I aleady have an idea of what happened and it was a problem that essentially got out of hand. I wish you'd just STOP posting until you post the damn story. It's not all that complicated. We don't need to know the minor details, just the facts. Pretend you are a reporter, post the facts, let people come to their own conclusions. But what you are doing now is ruining any credibility you might have had. May I post the highlights? It would save a lot of slam dunking. Anyone that knows me knows I can get to the point and bottom line things if need be. ;o)

He's only had two what in the last 5 years? Erosions? I'd believe that. Slips? Nope, no way. If slips were typically the fault of the surgeon then there are things they can do to improve their stats. But considering your surgeon has no control over patient behaviors there is no way I'd believe a surgeon has five years of banding experience, at least 500 bands, and two slips. (Band surgeons typically do at least 100 bands a year, if he has 10 bands then perhaps he does have 2 slips. ;o) )

Actually, it does. If you chose to go to a trauma surgeon for bariatric surgery you were getting an inexperienced band surgeon. Check out the link in my sig. I realize this was not there when you had surgery but the point is that I make it clear to use an experienced surgeon and why. Going to an experience trauma surgeon for a band is a bit like going to an experienced dentist for a band. The two do not compare. I know, hindsight is 20/20. I'm not knocking you for your decision, I'm making it a point for the newbies. Experience means everything in the world when it comes to bariatrics. There is a surgeon in Mexico that claims to be the 2nd most experienced sleeve surgeon in Mexico and other countries. It simply isn't true, he is not the most experienced. He took the stats of his partner, added them to his own and claimed he did all the surgeries. He wasn't even THERE for a majority of those procedures. So you have to check your surgeon and know what he is doing.

Wow... an ID created just now for the mere purpose of supporting a troll. Kinda cute, obvious, but cute.