WASaBubbleButt

I don't think it is a matter of defining who they are, I think it is something different. If the band didn't work for me it is almost a threat that the band might not work for another and that is frightening to some people. Maybe they spent all their money on a band and if it does not work they have no financial options left. One thing I find annoying as hell is when people automatically assume that if the band did not work for someone is it because they didn't change eating habits or something similar. Sure, there is work that needs to be done but sometimes the band just really isn't doable such as in my case. I did change my eating behaviors, I overhauled my diet, I exercised my butt off, I dealt with head issues, I worked on head hunger and I lost weight but I still hated the band due to what it was doing to me. Yet I have had people tell me I didn't have a right to a revision because I am at goal. I'm self pay, btw. Or people that suggest I don't know how to chew well after 18 months and on liquids only for three months. I think it boils down to a fear that the same thing might happen to another and that is when people come out fighting for the band.

I don't know that I can agree with you. First of all I'm pretty sure I, of ALL people am not militantly defending lap bands considering I just spent over $12K to get rid of mine. ;o) Support vs. ranting... One could go either way. Either this is a support board where we motivate one another or this is a rant board since we are in R&R. Either way, our opinions are acceptable here. If someone is going to claim to be a lap band failure, we are going to point out why that is. If B was talking about being unable to maintain a fill, unable to chew food enough to get it through the band, unable to control reflux... the answers would have been a world of difference. But "I don't exercise because I don't want to," or "I refuse to diet anymore but I want to lose weight," you are going to see people doling out a dose of reality.

HA! Yeah! Well, you know... Protein powder and Water can be kinda chewy and one has to chew them like gummy bears I guess. ;o) Thank you, I really did try to make the band forever but it wasn't meant to be in my case. LunaBeane: Thank you, that is very sweet of you. I have to admit, I was a little gun shy of trying a new surgery type but as each day goes by I get more excited about this. I really think this is the procedure for me.

I have no axe to grind, I am just telling what YOUR doctor told me. You don't have to like it, you don't even have to believe it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to post it. LOL! I know exactly who you are talking about! She happens to be an Arturo patient. She's the only person in Phoenix that is not welcome to go with us for fills anymore. She sat in the back seat and whined non stop the entire way back home. She couldn't follow the post fill diet for 3 hours! She was eating crunchy veggies hours after the fill when she was supposed to be on clear liquids, she was eating creamed soup that evening for clears, coffee in the AM, we told her not to take her tablets in the AM after a fill and to wait a few hours or crush them but nooooo, she knew better. She took the tablets, got stuck (shocking, I know), and then whined that her fill was too tight. She didn't follow a single instruction of the doctor. She was the biggest pain in the butt we ever had in the car. Everyone in the car that day said that if she came back they would not be in the same car with her. There were three other people in the car, shall I bring them over here? I'm happy to do so. They all thought she was the biggest, most whiny pain in the butt they had ever experienced. She also went on to tell me that Arturo was nothing but a flirt, didn't want to discuss the band but wanted to flirt with her the entire time.... I can go on. Shall I? She said it to all of us, not just me. And this is your only source btw, of our fill trips to Mexicali. HAHA! I'll post about that time, it was the longest, most annoying, miserable Mexico trip I ever experienced. She's emailed me several times afterwards and I deleted the emails unread. But you know what? It doesn't matter. I don't care where you get your info or what you want to claim, your doctor told me what he did and you can't change that fact or the fact that when asked, I'm going to post it. It's just one of those things you'll have to work through. Your source is S, mine is your doctor. Who has the better source?

Well, I was there during the conversation, you weren't. To tell me what I experienced in this telephone conversation and what I was told is kinda silly, you have to admit. Either your doctor has a high erosion stat or he's a liar. Can't have it both ways. You really don't know what is true or not, you don't even know about your own doctor. You simply don't want to believe it, that doesn't make it untrue. Ask Mellis, she asked me about Rodriguez last year and I was totally pro-Arturo. I told her everything I knew about him. Then Arturo called me 11/30 and I changed my mind about him and until I have facts to dispute what he told me, I'm sticking to my guns on this whether or not you agree.

Okay, I did misunderstand. Sorry, I see what you are saying now. Six month diet, start it now and if you need it you'll almost be done by the time Oct rolls around. I agree, it's a stupid requirement. Something to consider... just throwing out prices here. I don't know band prices in the US for specific doctors, so just throwing out Mexican prices to make a point. Band: $7000 Sleeve: $9500 Revision from band to sleeve $12,500 (plus $7000 band surgery) Revision from band to band $12,500 (plus $7000 band surgery) Correction of a slip: $3500 - $5000 (plus $7000 band surgery)

I have many many sources, and I stay friends with them all. Then there are other types of sources such as Inamed, J&J, band distributors, patient coordinators that work for these doctors, tons of sources. There is a TJ doctor that jokingly asked me if his wife was cheating on him. I don't have those kinds of sources. ;o) But I do have band doctor sources and I'll keep posting what I know until my fingers don't type anymore.

You'd have to get that from your doctor, he is the one that told me this. He told me this last November 30th when he invited me to his Christmas fiesta on 12/6. Obviously, I declined. He said he used to work with Dr. Sanchez and Sanchez is the one that was making the infamous "Mexican Band" (ever see a horrible and eroded band on US doctor's websites? THAT is the Mexican Band). Arturo was his lead surgeon. Arturo told me that they were putting the band in and they were eroding over 50% of the time. Yet.... they kept putting it in anyway. He said he removed over 350 of his own surgically placed bands due to erosion. I doubt any surgeon has seen that many band erosions. He's had more erosions than many doctors have bands placed! If you take into consideration the 350 bands he removed, the 1.3% erosion stat that is the global stat, that comes out to about 20% erosion for Arturo. He even called my doctor asking my doctor to request that I stop telling people about that conversation. Of course, my doctor has no way to tape my mouth shut or tape my typing fingers so that conversation did him little good. Perhaps if Arturo wants me to stop telling the truth he should call me back and explain why he kept placing this band when he knew they were going to erode. Until that conversation I was fairly pro-Rodriguez. But those days are over.

Not from what I have seen. From what I have seen is that it is silly to say ALL banding in Mexico is bad because you went to a bad surgeon. Instead of telling people how bad Mexico is because you had a bad experience due to your surgeon or complications that could happen to any of us, why not help people do their research and find a GOOD surgeon for a safe surgery?

I think head hunger is an issue for all of us. If we didn't have head hunger and only ate what we needed, when we needed it - we wouldn't be fat. For me it took a long time but I pretty well have control over head hunger now. 95-99% of the time I do but it took a lot of work to get there. I have it now, full force. But I think it's just because I don't know how much or what, I'll be able to eat. Once I know my limitations I'll have control again and it shouldn't be much of an issue. It will happen for you, it takes time and you have to learn little head games and what works for you. For me if that chocolate is calling my name I just remember that I *can* have it, just not right this minute. Then I'm not depriving myself, I'm just putting it off. Works for me.

Thank you! Everyone here is so sweet. I kinda half expected a bit of negativity about revising to another procedure so this is really nice. Thank you.

My tests showed the same thing until one day he caught it on fluoro. Turns out it was stoma spasms. I'd be fine for a couple of bites and then BAMMO, my stoma would go into spasm and nothing would stay down. Could that be the case for you? This is why I got a sleeve, no more stoma! I suspect that more is going down than you realize. When food comes back up it is mixed with saliva and makes it look like more than it really is. Could food be going down and just some of it be coming back up?

I was self pay for the band and it was pretty expensive. The aftercare was very expensive when you consider the fills, unfills, testing, diagnostics, upper GIs, upper endoscopy, transportation non stop to my doc, prescriptions, the works then a revision for $12,5 on top of it. This has all been verrrry expensive. In my case it would have been soooo much cheaper to do a sleeve in the very beginning. The band does require a great deal of aftercare and it's for life. It's not a couple of fills and you are done. It's much more than that. With a sleeve I get the surgery and I'm done. A lifetime of restriction, no stoma, no restriction issues due to weather, stress, hydration, TOM, and all the other factors that deal with restriction such as fills and unfills, no slips, erosion, and no more liquids after the post op diet. If you go to a sleeve board and see banded folks that have converted to sleeves they are the only folks not whining about the liquid post op diet. Know why? They are used to liquids, a few more weeks of it doesn't phase them. With banding you are on liquids after surgery, after each fills, after each stuck episode, during each day when restriction is too tight for a variety of reasons. It bothers me that I am sooo used to liquids. It's just not a healthy route to go for some of us. I wouldn't depend on cost when deciding on a surgery type, look far far beyond that one. But if you are going to depend on cost in deciding a surgery type, look at ALL the costs, and that is a lifetime of aftercare.

It costs a lot. ;o) In Mexico it was $12,500. But well worth every single penny. Thing is, the longer you put it off and don't do anything about it the more damage to your esophagus, that means permanent and forever. Revision surgery is more expensive than an original procedure. It's far more difficult to do and not just any band surgeon can do a revision safely. It takes a ton of skill with staple lines. Doing a staple line on a scarred stomach (banded) is not easy and carries a great deal more risk of perforations, bleeding, infection, leaks, etc. It takes longer, there is more OR time, it requires more skill, it results in more pain and a harder recovery. But I think it is safer than going on the way I was. I'm tired of fighting band issues, I'm tired of trying to force it to work when in my case, it just wasn't healthy. But it was a choice, continue living as I was, removing the band and gaining weight, or going for it. I decided to go for it and am thrilled that I did.

Jacqui.... I'd have to agree with you. I think there is a world of difference between being plain mean and simply giving someone a bit of tough love and honesty. It's like when someone is cheating on the post op diet. There are some people who will pat the heads of the cheater and tell them it is okay. It is NOT okay, I want to smack these people. If you go back and look at posts of the heat patters you'll find they too, are post op diet cheaters. It's like they want others to cheat so they can justify their own behaviors. Sometimes we all need a bit of honesty, we are all supposed to be in this one together and patronizing someone does absolutely nothing beneficial. Confirming and supporting bad habits is not helpful to another, we are doing nothing but confirming and reinforcing our own bad habits sometimes. It's almost an attitude of, "I can't do it and I don't want you to do it either." It is selfish, nothing more. If you have a kid who refuses to study, is out all night with friends, sabotaging themselves, you don't pat their little heads and tell them to try really really hard to do better. You tell them to knock it the hell off. If you tolerate poor behavior from your child, you are reinforcing that bad behaviors are totally okay and acceptable. We have a person here, Brandy, who went through surgery to obtain a lap band and flat out admits she refuses to diet and exercise let alone do a bloody thing for herself other than to make up one excuse after another for not accomplishing a darn thing. People, she's trying to lose weight! Hello???? How is patting her head telling her others who are being honest are nothing short of mean, how is this helpful? Since when is flat out honesty a bad thing? Losing weight is hard, that's a reality. Nobody promised that it would be easy. The band does not absorb calories, it is not wise to reinforce that "it's all metabolism," to someone who is eating junk all day long, it is not metabolism ... it is eating junk food. When one is trying to lose weight it is not helpful to say that they don't need to either cut calories or exercise. That is an absolute lie. When a banded person is saying that they don't give a rip about their own health enough to lift one silly little finger to help themselves, what can we do? Reinforcing bad behavior is nothing short of justifying our own bad behaviors, it's certainly not helping anyone. What is the true goal here, to make us feel better about our own poor choices in weight loss or to honestly help someone who is not lifting a finger for their own health issues? Honesty is not the horror some folks make it out to be. I think that right now Brandi is playing a bit of a pity game, a pity party per se. I'm not playing the game and I'm not going to support that behavior. I know as well as everyone else here that she did not leave, she is still reading the boards. So we all have a choice, help her or don't. But let's at least get a bit of honesty going and for those that are actually being honest and trying to do something positive for a person with a bit of tough love... that's not a horror. That's a good thing. The head patters need to stop fooling themselves. This isn't a race to see who can be the nicest, this is a race to help someone save their life from obesity issues. Let's not take that so damned lightly. If someone can't be honest with themselves, cool. So be it. But don't reinforce the same negative behaviors in another, it's not helpful and it's not acceptable. Nobody said anyone has to do this my way or Jacqui's way. Nobody ever claimed that eating 600 calories a day is necessary or needed for life (Fanny). Some of us are saying that it's time to damn well get out there and quit making excuses. Get off your butts, do something! Anything! But eating bon bons and whining that, "I don't want to exercise," is not going to get someone healthy and afford them a better quality life. We aren't talking about cleaning the house here, we are talking life vs. death. It bothers me when others take that as lightly as they are here.

Think "location location location" when considering Mexico. Right now the bad areas are Tijuana and Juarez. Narcos México publican nombres de policías que quieren asesinar - Yahoo! México Noticias There are banners hanging from bridges listing the police officers that are due to be killed and as they are killed their names are crossed off the lists. Police officers are asking for asylum in the US. Things are pretty bad in some areas but you know, it's just like the US, we have bad cities and good cities. So does Mexico. About three weeks ago 14 people were shot and killed in TJ so they moved (going by memory) 3000 army guys to Juarez due to the problems over there and that meant fewer army guys patrolling TJ. So many of the doctors in TJ went on strike and they are refusing to see anyone except for in an ER until the police do something about the crime and violence on the streets. I would have to disagree with the idea that during the day it is okay, the doctors on strike tend to disagree. One problem I have with a small number of band docs in TJ is that they are hiring body guards for themselves. Well, if THEY need a body guard, who do they think should be guarding their patients?

Because they don't sound as smart when they do. If you have to stop and think about what they mean, they feel extra special. ;o) Five year studies are coming out. Doc's already have access to them, the study is the largest study available so far. It is supposed to show that sleeves do not stretch like a banded pouch does, weight loss is better, it is faster (no bandster hell, no waiting for restriction), etc. This info is being given to bariatric docs first at various seminars throughout the country. Banding: 1-2 pounds per week, 50-70% EWL Sleeves: 2-3 pounds per week, 70-80% EWL I don't put a lot of stock into the EWL, I think that is all very individual and I don't think it is tracked well over the patient's long term weight loss journey. But sleeves do afford better and faster weight loss with fewer complications. It's a matter of what works for each person.

I have Hashi's and had no problems losing weight but the key is to get your meds stable. If your blood work is in normal range it shouldn't be a problem.

There is a little piece of me that is afraid to be without my band. I KNOW that worked for me although it was a hard journey in my case. I keep thinking ... what if the sleeve doesn't do the trick? But, I think it will. I was on liquids for so long I kinda got used to it over the past 3 months and now that I know things are fixed and after the post op diet I can eat real food again it's triggering a thing in my brain. Now head hunger is coming out in full force. I have no Ghrelin so I have no hunger now with a sleeve. But seriously, who needs Ghrelin when my head is telling me I'm hungry? ;o) My friend's grandma (KittenQutie) is from the south and she's promised me my favorite foods, Southern fried chicken and mashed potatoes on 7/4. That's all I think about. A chicken wing is about all that will fit in my new tube stomach. Makes me wonder how long it will take to eat a single meal in the beginning? It should be trippy to find out! HA! Actually, I can't wait to find out. I'm telling you, if it takes me all day to eat a piece of chicken, so be it! I'll do it. I want real food!

If I could take your surplus, I would! Not that gaining a few pounds is a big deal, it isn't. But white carbs... it's a head thing for me. I'm soooo anti-white carbs (for me only) that it's hard getting through the mindset. I worked so hard to overhaul my diet and change eating habits. White carbs are my trigger foods and to intentionally set out to eat the stuff really is quite hard. I feel like I'm going to fall into old habits again. I can't wait to meet you! You should have gone shopping with Denise and me a few weeks ago, would'a been fun.

But not all the mods, eh? (wink wink nudge nudge)<wink wink="" nudge=""> My post op diet is 10 days of clears, 10 of fulls, 10 soft, then regular food. I'm at 8 days, I just ate 16 chickens, a ham, a pound of taffy, and a fifth of rum. Did I hurt my staple line? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I couldn't resist! ;o))) It's soooo tempting to go to the newbie section and post some questions....</wink>

Excellent post, absolutely correct.

I agree! Let's do it!

Thanks for writing that. I belong to several boards and I posted on one of them that I was really having problems with my band and didn't have any fight left in me to continue fighting band problems. I wrote that I wanted to revise to a sleeve. One person from here who also posts on the other board chewed my butt telling me I didn't have a right to a revision surgery (I was self pay for banding and revision) since I was at goal. I was eating ice cream and frosting at the time to maintain my weight and she told me I was anorexic with body image issues. How many anorexics do you know eat frosting and ice cream to maintain/gain weight? She is one of the pro-band folks, only banding will work for anyone, blah blah blah. I had made mention of the revision surgery here and I came back and deleted the posts deciding I wouldn't say anything to anyone until after it was done. It was a hard decision to give up my band and I just didn't need the crap so I didn't tell many about it until it was done and over. Then I had others telling me I should chew better. How much should I chew a Protein Shake? ;o) Of all boards I should have probably mentioned here what I was planning but due to the experience on the other board, I just didn't want to, so thanks for writing what you did.

I was unfilled and couldn't eat solids for three months. Esophageal spasms, esophageal motility issues, band induced reflux, etc.