TheCascadian

I had a minor/friendly debate with a coworker about the merits of obesity surgery. But I think I might have made some progress by the end of it. We were talking about all of our coworkers who have had gastric bypass and how great they look. I mentioned that they had inspired me to get banded and he asked me about it. He listened for a moment and then, in a very friendly way, began to question my diet, exercise and personal history. We are normally very open with each other so I didn't feel he was prying or being nosy, but my answers didn't seem to satisfy him. He suggested elliptical trainers, cardio, seeing a nutritionist, eating 6-10 times a day, the usual clap-trap. He basically stated that surgery really was unnecessary that that fat people should just work harder. He said they are eating too much and if they just ate a normal 2,500 calorie diet and did some cardio they'd shed the pounds and be thin. I pointed about that my diet was well under 3,000 calories and that I worked out regularly for years and was gaining weight the whole time. He responded that I must have a thyroid condition. I told him he was dead wrong, that I'd just had that test last week and have perfect thyroid function. Clearly, he didn't get it, so I tried to explain things to him a little more, to no avail. We went back and forth on it. Finally, I got a bit fed up and pointed something out to him (coworkers names changed to protect the innocent): I said, "Jim is thin and healthy, right? So if he got the bypass surgery, what would happen to him?" Coworker says, "He'd prolly be really sick and might even die. His body wouldn't be getting enough calories! He's too thin to have the surgery done." I responded, "Exactly. So Peter was really fat, got the bypass surgery done almost 3 years ago and ever since then he's been thin. In fact, he's about the same size as Jim, right? Same height and weight, right?" He agreed this was true. Then I laid down the clincher: "Why isn't Peter now dying from malnourishment and hunger? Why is he struggling to maintain his weight loss even eating tiny portions and exercising, all while Jim still eats whatever he wants and never exercises and stays the same weight?" My coworker looked stumped at this idea, that clearly the patient's starting body weight was irrelevant for a permanent surgery like gastric bypass... But I was just getting started. I said, "If what we ate and how we exercised were the solution for morbid obesity, there would not be very many morbidly fat people. It took a massive rerouting of Peter's digestive track to get him to where diet and exercise even have a chance of controlling his weight. He and Jim may look the similar on the outside, but inside they are hardly the same species.' 'They are obviously processing and using calories very differently or else people who had bariatric surgery would all eventually get too thin and die off. Instead, even with surgery, some people never lose all their excess weight and have to put in constant effort forever just to stay thin!" He seemed impressed by this and said, "I never thought about it that way, but you got me with that one. If what I said was true, Peter should be really getting sick by now!" He was laughing ruefully and I was getting into it, so I continued on my rant. I said, "Have you been on a strict diet and exercise regimen every day of your life to stay thin? Or do you generally eat what you want and exercise when you feel like it? When you gain a few pounds, does it really take more than a few weeks of mild effort to shed that weight?' He laughed again and agreed that he didn't really do ANY of the things he was suggesting I do and that he easily lost weight. I kept on my rant: "Normal people maintain a healthy weight with nary a thought of diet or exercise. Obese people gain weight almost inexorably. Some fat people cannot control their compulsive eating due to mental health issues, but most of us are simply hungry too often or for too much AND our bodies happily convert everything we do eat into fat. It packs on easily and burns off hardly at all. We are not normal and someday doctors and thin people are going to realize that, stop putting us down and start looking for a cure to the disease we have- a cure that doesn't involve chopping into our guts." He threw up his hands and surrendered the point. Though I was off on quite the tangent, it was all in good fun. He could tell he really got my goat even though I ultimately won the debate, so I guess it was sort of a draw. Anyway, I do think I made progress helping him understand what we go through. No, more than that... I think he understands now just a little bit about WHAT WE ARE. It was a good conversation, so I had to share it with all of you.

I was on Xenadrine for a while, back when it still had Ephedra in it. The only result for me was intense paranoia and skittishness. I started having panics attacks whenever the phone rang or it was "too quiet" in the room for a while! LOL! I never tried Phen Fen... Ah well, heart damage is a real bear. Sucks that you found something that works- only with fatal side effects. *sigh*

Thanks, I figured you guys would appreciate it. I'm always amazed that WLS "deniers" (yeah I stole that one from Al Gore) don't look at it rationally until you put that little "conundrum" of the thin bypass person versus the thin regular person in front of them... I have a pet theory that morbid obesity is just some genetic side effect of being famine-resistant. We are OBVIOUSLY hard to starve to death, since all of our surgeries effectively put us in a famine-like state and still can fail at keeping us thin! I tease my skinny friends that when the apocalypse happens and there's no food, I'm gonna be looking AWESOME riding around in my Jeep like Mad Max. ;D

Thanks, it's always interesting to hear people's "Fat History". I am surprised at the range of different stories. I figured there would be a lot of lifetime obesity cases, but apparently that's not the case. With that said, I was always athletic and healthy, I didn't get literally, clinically OBESE until high school... It is funny that so many of us were (and/or still are) athletic people. I exercise more than anyone among my friends and am the one with the most active job, but I'm the fattest. It hardly seems fair.

My crazy work schedule and my utter laziness have combined into the perfect storm- it seems like I'll never get this pre-band testing phase over with. I stupidly allowed my PCP to do his own little side project testing my cholesterol and thyroid function. Now I've got to get back on the "bandwagon" and make some appointments. I am going to aim for having the psych, dietician and bloodwork done in the next two weeks! Then get a surgery appointment right away!!! I'm very impatient with this process and mad at my PCP for trying to instill phantom fears in me regarding my choice in Surgeon... Not that he doesn't mean well, I'm sure he does, but I don't really want to switch horses mid-race and try to get a different Surgeon. I'm suffering from a little bit of depression and self-mockery, because I keep TALKING AND TALKING instead of just DOING IT. *slap upside the head* I allowed Dr. Dagg to destract me from my goal, I will be firm with him this time and tell him I want the recommendation to Dr. Fox... Then I'll see if he can do all the bloodwork in-house or if I need to make the appointment at Auburn Hospital for it. *deep breath* *calm* I will get this squared away this week. No more delays, excuses or drama.

I'd like to see that commercial as well!

Strippers go apply for jobs like anyone else (save for the naked auditioning part)- they don't need an agent. I speak from the experience of having had female friends who went this route to pay for school at really high-end clubs- Which are the only places you should be looking to dance. So unless this guy OWNS or MANAGES a high-end strip club, he's just trying to play like he's some pimp. And you don't seem like the kinda girl who needs some nutjob pretending to be in charge of you. My .02 cents? Kick him to the curb and find a guy who can talk some sense, even if he isn't throwing cash at you. Money is great, free money is better, but this money looks like it has nasty little strings all over it!

Uhhh... I was totally just guessing. I've never been thin as an adult, hell, not even as a teenager. So I just sort of went with a number that got me out of obesity-range on the BMI side of the scale! LOL.

Welcome to the board and congrats on your surgery date! I'm still waitin' for mine! :mad:

Awesome responses! Thanks guys. Keep 'em coming, too! I love to read your stories. Besides, good research needs a lot of "data points", right? :mad:

Hello all, I have this idea of what it will be like to be banded. Mostly, in my imagination, I'll eat a few bites and will feel stuffed. I have always had a distorted/missing sense of satiety, so I'm just picturing that a small meal will feel like a jumbo-blowout buffet... But I have a great imagination and want to know the real deal... Does the "full" or satiation sensation happen now if it didn't before? Or is it just that distended-gut-holy-crap-I-ate-a-lot feeling happening more quickly? Is stomach hunger less intense or more manageable after the band? I mean, how much to you guys eat in a meal? I'm having trouble imagining what portions sizes look like on the band... Would one of those little McDonalds Cheeseburgers be a big (if unhealthy) portion size? I do have direct experience with cravings/head hunger and weight loss. After a few months of Atkins, I didn't ever want to see or eat potatoes ever again- nasty. Only whole grain breads and Pasta tasted right- white bread and normal pasta seemed flavorless. But my chocolate addiction was in full-force, perhaps even stronger! LOL. The darker the better, sugar content/sweetness was irrelevant. I was even trying to score real cocoa Beans to brew into a coffee-like death-drink! LOL. So I'm ready for that to happen all over again, but maybe the band is different? Did your tastes change drastically as the weight came off? (With the weight back on and my insulin resistance back up? Potatoes, white bread and pasta started tasting good again... *sigh*) :hungry: Thanks!

Hmmm... What is your self-respect worth? Lap-Bands can be had for around 12-14K and financing is available. :nervous Seriously, though, this is a choice only you can make. Just do what's right for you. Truly, best wishes.

Gayle, I was Atkins for life and committed to only the allowed "cheats". If the diet had not failed me and I had not started to regain weight despite staying on the plan, I would still be at or under 290lbs. The good thing is, my exercise routine allowed me to get a better job (I work in Law Enforcement) and has kept about 10 inches off my waist DESPITE being back at my pre-diet weight. When I started having trouble with my knees again and had to stop running again, that's when I realized I would need this surgery... I'm MORE THAN ready mentally, I'm just getting every bit of wisdom I can get about the details of this surgery and its after-effects. I bought some low-sodium bullion (beef and chicken) and some new fruit juices (acai, anyone?). I'm going to try out the makings of a preop diet in the next few weeks and really get used to that. I am so appreciative of everyone on here for helping fill in the blanks and avoid the rough spots. You guys just rock. Anybody else wanna throw their .02 cents in? I'm shooting for 10 bucks in this thread, minimum! LOL.

Sounds like a real jerk. I'm pissed at this guy just reading about it! And, since you asked for advice: Tell him you want immediate counseling or a divorce, his choice. He needs to really DEAL with his sadism and it can't hurt you to face whatever demons you might have. It takes two to tango, and I'm sure you haven't always been an angel yourself (who is?!!), but spouses should be supportive of each other, not threatening or intimidating or power-hungry. You deserve better than this, especially during such a stressful time. Your Lap-Band might need to go on a "secret" credit card as a self-pay... Send the bill to a P.O. Box or your parent's house and TAKE BACK THAT POWER over your health and future. I'm not saying it's a wise financial choice, but it might change the balance of power between you two- You should be EQUALS and FRIENDS, not dominant/subservient and enemies. Ultimately, I'm recommending counseling. If he's as much of a %*(#&% as I think, he'll pull out every stop to avoid being dragged into the light like that. Just my .02 cents. Stay strong and good luck.

Thanks guys. I'm glad I made a serious, if eventually failed, effort to diet before getting a WLS. I think it has been good preparation. This sounds pretty similar to my Atkins experience, especially with regards to tastes changing and head hunger. Anybody else wanna chime in? Does the band provide that sense of satiety if you didn't have that before? For those "big losers" out there, does your urge to eat drop away with the pounds?

Marjon, Thanks for the quick response! Did your tastes change, like WHAT your head was craving?

Hey guys, I'm 27. I started seriously trying to fight my weight when I was 23... Did good for a few years, but I'm done fighting this without help and need to get the band. Glad too see so many 20-somethings on here! Many friends are saying, "You are too young!" but they aren't dealing with it, I am...

Hey all, just checking in. I'm still waiting for the band. I'm impatient, feels like this testing phase is taking FOREVER...

Chrispygal, JDru, Puddin, KristiB, I was really glad you guys understood where I was coming from. Sounds like things in the dating game are heating up for some of you as the pounds come off! I can't wait to join in. :confused: Kristi- Dang, how many stitches did you need??? Hope you got some good pain meds! Chrispy- I always used to take my female best friend clothes-shopping with me- I had no taste. It took me a while to find a style that worked for me. Eventually, I had to step out on my own and override her wishes for me (black turtleneck sweaters and slacks were a little too La Femme Nikita after the 90s were over!). A lot of guys THINK dressing well and looking good is effeminate, but a carrot-and-stick treatment from a hot lady is usually enough to turn them around. Just don't forget to "reward via the carrot" for it later! LOL!

Okay, here we go. The old man's name is Samuel Ross Fox. He is using his first initial for a reason, I guess. LOL! https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/hpqa1/Application/Credential_Search/Legal_Document_Index.asp?PCN=MD00005293&VID=5756b4b13db7d758a090a8600537a6f6&SID= https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/hpqa1/Application/Credential_Search/documents/rad2A695.pdf https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/hpqa1/Application/Credential_Search/documents/rad1F205.pdf https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/hpqa1/Application/Credential_Search/documents/radD2587.pdf The short version is this: In 1984, Dr. S. Ross Fox got caught in London's Heathrow Airport with Cocaine and Marijuana. He was charged, convicted, fined and released. In 1998, the Medical Board here in WA finally found out about his drug conviction in London and suspended his license for 1 year with additional drug testing. He started practicing again in 1999. In 2001, he finished his drug testing and had been clean for years, so they finally released him from all the monitoring. Needless to say, his son was not involved with this at all. Neither of them has been in trouble for harming a patient or even for being on drugs while treating one... This all occured "off-duty", if you will. Turns out this *IS* a "sins of the father" sort of situation, the old man and his son can't even escape from the cloud of it TWENTY-THREE YEARS after the initial wrong-doing and SIX YEARS after the punishment for it is over!!! I'm going back to the my PCP to have a little talk with him about this. I'm annoyed, to say the least. He's portraying this as a medical safety issue. I don't think my Doctors' father's drug abuse in the 70s and 80s is really going to affect my health... Geez.

Hey Ladies, I'm male, single, 27 years old, tall, dark and handsome. I have a stable career with the Feds. I'm still pre-surgery, trying to get banded. A few years back I lost A LOT of weight and went under 300 lbs. Due to my height, the high 200s are a great-looking weight for me: Women practically fell at my feet and I was having the time of my life. When the weight went back over 300lbs, the looks and flirting and comments from the ladies all dried up. Thankfully, I was in a relationship by that time! As much as women believe that they are not "shallow" or that they don't really look at mens' bodies first and fore-most... Well, let's just say that I know better. I prefer being thinner (under 300lbs) and prefer my ladies to be curvy but not sloppy. I believe that we as human beings have some instincts going on in the backs of our minds about this- we are usually attracted to an average/healthy body type. Some of us like them a little thicker or taller or skinnier, there's still personal preference, but very very very few people lust for a lover who is morbidly obese- I certainly don't. Dating is all about selling a very complex product- yourself. I love my inner workings and think I'm made of high-quality stuff. Unfortunately, I'm packaged all wrong. I want to try and change my package's appearance because I know I can attract more high-end "customers" if I do. Sorry to be so crass or clinical about it, but there it is. Just as I don't want to "buy" a morbidly obese girl, I don't want to "sell" a morbidly obese me, either. It goes both ways. But I won't say it is fair or even reasonable. I just know what I'm attracted to and what I'm not. But I think we suffer from discrimination all the time and we don't even realize it. I don't just mean from potential lovers, either. When I thinned down, people who had never spoken to me at work in three years were suddenly my best buddies. I was sort of offended until I realized that they were doing it almost totally unconsciously. Once I fit into that mental size chart in their head, I was accepted and appreciated. When my weight went back up, many of them drifted away again. It was NOT my behavior which changed, either, I've always been a loud, confident, goofy chatterbox. The same pattern happened time and again with people who were not close to me emotionally. Whether it was my bosses, distant coworkers or ladies on the street, my weight made all the difference in how I was percieved and treated. I could go around being resentful about it, but I'd prefer just to fix me, get back under 300lbs and solve the problem. I want the band. In closing this freaking novel-length post, I just wanna say that many of you ladies on here are TOTAL HOTTIES! Don't think I didn't jump to that pictures thread when I got here to check you all out! I'm so happy for all of you who are fighting this disease and making better lives for yourselves- Talk about having a quality product to sell in that ole dating game!

Thanks Jack. Yeah, I'm going to have to dig into this. I still am just sort of shocked at how negative it all was. I mean, I went to SWLC because of the GOOD REP they seem to have online. Or am I just crazy? We'll see. *sigh*

Hello all, I've been lurking for a bit and enjoying the site immensely. I've had my initial consult and I'm in the process of getting tests done before I am finally banded. No surgery date just yet. I'm currently working with Dr. Fox at SWLC in Tacoma, WA. I'd love to hear from anybody else who has had experiences with him or the facility, good or bad! Like many here, I'm tired of seriously dieting and actually exercising and watching the scale go down... then right back up again. I'm ready for a positive, permanent change- and I'm willing to put in the effort to make that happen and keep it that way. I've read good and bad on here, I'm hoping that the band won't be a mistake for me; I'm trying not to pin too many hopes on it just yet.

Yeah, I'm here in Seattle. Glad to hear you've had a positive experience with him!

Thanks to everyone here for their comments and support! I had some drama today at the doctor's office, but I'll post that in another, more appropriate forum... Needless to say I'm "doctor-shopping" and getting second opinions while I do some bloodwork and tests. I figure if I'm going to get banded, I want to do it right the first time and avoid any complications...